not yet. added it to the list a bit ago.
Anyone watching this on Netflix? I'm halfway through. Watch if you like The Staircase or The Jinx.
Whatever the outcome, that whole family needs to be sterilized.
I'm at episode 3 and cannot click your spoiler, but I'm pretty hooked.
Yeah we did episode 1 last night and want to click the spoiler, but the first one was crazy enough. Don't want to ruin how deep this rabbit hole filled with shit is going to go.
Amod, If you're reading this, could you modify the title to Making a Murderer (If you liked The Staircase and The Jinx)
I'm watching episode 4 now and...
Ok so I paused it to post that last spoiler then I go back and...
I mean... is this even a true story? Did this shit actually happen or is this just a Blair Witch Project kinda thing?
Last edited by Khane; 12-22-2015 at 02:41 AM.
I thought I was the only person watching this, only watched 3 episodes so far but holy fuck there are some arguments that some people should not be allowed to breed.
I just got done will post more when we get a critical mass that have finished it.
Watched up to ep. 4 tonight and totally hooked but the sheer level of wtf in this...
Well fuck Bisi - started this last night and made it through 6 episodes (aka 3 am) before calling it. So absolutely fucked up. Can't imagine this has a happy ending for anyone
Just finished it:
One thing the series glossed over very, very quickly
Finished series spoilerSpoiler:
Just finished episode 3 and my mind is full of fuck right now.
Recent event due to the series.
watched one episode last night with a friend then watched the remainder today.
holy shit, this shit man. just starting episode 5, don't know the outcome yet, but fuck. man. fuck.
You know at the end of Dear Zachary when at least they got canada to pass a law to protect children from murderous psychopaths?
not knowing anything else on how this ends, just from what i've seen so far through episode 4. If the end result of this netflix series isn't a law to protect retards from police railroading then we as a nation have failed our retards.
We can't let canada beat us here guys.
This points out a few pieces of evidence that the documentary didn't focus on or mention. Without context or hearing the arguments it is hard to say how it impacts my thoughts on the trial.
Last edited by Barraco Bisi; 12-29-2015 at 04:58 PM.
I don't think so? I mean you know Adnan has been in jail the entire time, right? Not really a spoiler what the jury's decision was there.
Just finished watching this series over the last few days. Holy fuck.
Jury of your peers is scary. I remember when I had jury duty that actually went to a trial for felony weapon possession the case was completely weak and shoddy, but there were two people who refused to see that. Our initial vote 2 people said guilty. One guy who was very stubbornly arguing for guilt, and another dumb old bitch that just kept saying 'He may not be guilty of this, but I know the type, he's guilty of something so I say we put him away!" It was crazy to watch people start to slowly gravitate toward 'well, maybe he is guilty' before I and a few other people got involved and talked the dumb old bitch down and the stubborn guy finally angrily said something like 'I know he's guilty but I don't care and just want to go home so I'll vote not-guilty' which is scary bullshit in itself as you shouldn't just go with the flow because you want to go home. It was a terrifying experience all around.
the part where he knew the plates days before they knew the vehicle really stayed with me. that and how shitty the vehicle was hidden on a huge ass scrap yard THAT HAD A CAR CRUSHER.
Just started this last night - I'm fascinated by missing persons and murder mysteries so this is all really interesting. Only 2 episodes in but I wanted to call in and watch the whole thing.
I'll probably avoid this thread in case people start posting spoilers or something.
Last edited by Khane; 12-30-2015 at 05:32 PM.
I think they could have condensed the series into about half the episodes.
Small town cops can be some shady motherfuckers. Big city cops are less so, there's more oversight. But this kind of shit happens, bros.
This just reinforces something that we should all know...
"I want my attorney. Seriously, get me my fucking attorney....Am I under arrest? I don't give a shit if you just want my help...I want my attorney and I'm leaving unless I am under arrest."
But if you cheated on some sheriff's wife or crossed one of those family lines... Well there's either a swamp with some gators nearby or someone is guaranteed to be a pig farmer.
On the other hand if they went after every lawyer that made them look dumb they'd be mass murdering lawyers. Cops are not mental geniuses.
Just finished the 4th episode (it's weird how lots of people decided to post after the 3rd or 4th) and this is seriously the most infuriating thing I've ever watched.
The level of incompetence by pretty much everyone makes me absolutely disgusted. I honestly don't even want to watch anymore, but I feel compelled to.
I almost posted that "Don't talk to cops" video before I saw Bisi did, too.
Last edited by Elurin; 01-01-2016 at 06:17 AM.
I've said it before, that entire family needs to be sterilized
This is popping up all over the place. I still haven't finished the show so I have no real idea of where it ends up.
Oh well, enjoy episode 4, it only gets worse!
Oh, well if that inept, creepy and accused (convicted?) criminal prosecutor says there was like tons more evidence then I tend to believe him. The same prosecutor who completely changed the timeline/story he gave in a press conference in his closing arguments. The same prosecutor that figured the best explanation was 'even if the cops DID plant evidence it doesn't mean Avery shouldn't be convicted!' If that prosecutor wasn't a creepy laughing-stock maybe I'd believe his internet bullshit claiming there was more proof left out of the documentary and even coming close to implying it was just a smear job against him. Would that be delusion are narcissism?
The article writer does a good job of falling into the same exact traps in thinking as he's accusing the jury of. Some of the evidence he claims wasn't in the doc (like the female cousin being held at gunpoint) was in fact in the doc and in decent detail as well. It wasn't just a glossed over fact. Not to mention that happened prior to the rape conviction and was used against him, wrongfully, as proof that he must be a rapist. For a rape he didn't commit. That had nothing to do with the murder trial 20+ years later.
Avery sounds like a perverted piece of shit but that doesn't make him a murderer and connecting those dots as such is insane when a backwoods, dumbass redneck supposedly killed and mutilated a woman but didn't leave a shred of DNA evidence anywhere except her car.
In some interview or online post somewhere the DA talks disparaging of Avery saying he's the type of low-life scumbag that will kill and mutilate a woman and then try to blame his own family!
Ummm, first, Avery was acquitted of mutilating her, so at the very least that DA is continuing to stick to his original (yet sometimes changing) story that now means he's continuing to make accusations that contradict the verdicts in his own trial. If nothing else it shows how absurd the deliberations and verdict seem to be, and continuing to bring attention to something he should be underplaying means he's truly as blind a zealot as he claims the documentary falsely makes him out to be or he's just as much a dumb fuck as he claims he was falsely portrayed as.
And secondly, Avery chose not to pin it on his nephew despite that side of the family seeming suspiciously unsupportive and angry at Avery at times. I've seen white trash families like that were the close relatives are very jealous and undermining of the side of their family that has anything going for it, and having your name on the business keeping the family afloat at having to work for that name and live on the street named after that side of the family? Sheeeit, if you've lived around poor white trash that's a dangerous position to be in! Especially when the non-Avery relatives still seemed like dirt bags, but most seemed to at least not be retarded like the Avery's. The whole time my gut kept telling me they should have been looking hard into other non-Avery relatives at least a bit more than fishing for statements to incriminate Avery.
Those two bozos going hunting at 4pm, in separate directions, each alone, each only able to corroborate each other's stories, with plenty of access to the property, access and ability using guns, and then not even being able to stick to a consistent story? Their involvement could explain why the killer would put her in the back of her own vehicle, because they weren't just bringing her from the bedroom and/or garage where she was killed (depending on the prosecution's story that day) but having to store her at least that night until the time was right to get the body burned and put into Avery's burn pit. I dunno, seems they should have been looked at more than just trying to get them to corroborate the Avery theory, instead of just 'oh, you hastily went hunting alone and were seen by close kin on the way to them also going hunting alone, you're free to go!'
Avery actually seems like he has a lot of moral character; he steadfastly refused to admit to the rape that he didn't do even though it would have gotten him out on parole. He did not throw Dassey under the bus even though he could have. He never admitted anything and stood up for his family.
Sure, he's a backwoods inbred redneck and has values to match; but I'm just talking about his character here.
I'm wondering if the Kratz guy even watched the documentary...Some of the points he raised are just wrong. Of course, anyone who watched it can point to at least four occasions where he lied to get convictions, or to muddy the waters.
Here is the reddit thread that freaks me out a little...
An alternate theory continued [Spoilers] : MakingaMurderer
Finally watched this after you guys mentioned it. That shit got super slow and should've been condensed, but definitely some crazy shit in there.
I really can't stand the Helbauch brother.
Thanks for helping me justify my hatred lol.
Wtf was going on with Brendan's mom in the street after the guilty verdict? Was that a reporter harassing her?
How has nobody mentioned this yet?
I had never heard of this trial until this series and was hoping for a happy ending where he sued the county for billions. Oh well.
Anyway, mind blown. I realize that the documentary is taking a position of the innocence of Steve Avery, but given what was shown I cannot fathom how a jury could convict him. There was absolutely no doubt that some shady shit went down. The fact that the Manitowoc police was there rooting around when there was a conflict of interest should have been enough to throw the case out, right? Even the judges seemed sketchy but, again, the film may have been shot in a way to make it seem that way.
Regarding Brendan -- that shit makes NO sense. You have a retard confess to something with ZERO physical evidence backing it up and yet they convict him? How is this even possible? I'm reminded of a few years ago when some dude confessed to the killing of JonBenét Ramsey. They figured out real quick that he didn't do it -- definitely didn't just take his word for it.
I watched it, I'm inclined to believe (speculatively) he may well be guilty, and that regardless he was framed. I do feel the documentary was so strongly slanted to one side, making it hard not to see the other side and it might simply be because the had so much access to the defense and all the facts came together and that's simply the narrative the film makers saw. However, regardless of any of that: even if he is guilty, I also believe there's significant possibility he was framed to ensure a conviction.
I splurged on the series with the woman, last week all day, what I cannot understand is, where is the mattress? If we're to believe the narrative presented by the prosecutors there needs to either be a missing mattress/destroyed/replaced, a mattress that was tampered with making it impossible to recover evidence, or a mattress covered with evidence. Did they ever mention a mattress? I don't get it.
I never read Kiss the Girls, is it like word for word like that kid's confession?
Last edited by Voyce; 01-02-2016 at 06:15 PM.
I guess I am the only one that doesn't think he did it. I more suspect the ex boyfriend or one of the random hunters. The lack of DNA in the supposed kill site and the fact the body was in the car just really screams unlikely with the prosecutions narrative. It took 18 searches to find bullets and keys in plain sight? Really? The whole thing is a sham.
I don't think he did it either. Mostly due to the fact that he's functionally retarded and somehow a mastermind at covering up a murder. The only physical evidence was stuff that could be planted (I don't know enough about the "sweat found on the car hood" thing to comment); blood in the car but no fingerprints, no blood anywhere at the scene of the supposed crime, etc.
I think the ex-boyfriend should've been suspect #1. The guy has an apparently amazing memory (he remembers her sister's birthdays), but can't remember what time of day he saw her the last time he went to her house. And they weren't even asking a time, just "morning, afternoon, evening." Are you shitting me? I have a feeling he killed her and the Sheriff's office saw it as an opportunity to get rid of a lawsuit that would've bankrupted the county. It also gets rid of the potential for several of them to be looking at criminal prosecutions for gross misconduct during Avery's rape conviction and then the 1995 events.
Saw someone bring up the theory that it was a spare key, which is why it didn't have her dna on it. It sure looks like it could have been a spare. If that's a reasonable reason to explain the lack of her dna, then who would have had access to her belongings and potentially her spare key?
By the way, Brenden's plight makes me wonder if SundanceTV's Rectify is loosely based on that account. Brenden's situation eerily paralleled young Daniel's (the show's protagonist) confession because the officer's implied he would get to go home if he admitted to the crime.
I know it's easy for me to say since it's not my sister dead, but yeah that halbach brother was a piece of shit.
The way every time they talked to him he would say "well he lied on the stand and that's what type of person he is" annoyed me.
I get its your sisters murder so it's near impossible to not have bias, but how could he sit through all that shit and not think anything about Brendan other than that he's a monster?
It's one thing th Avery, but man that Brendan shit was clearly wrong.
I hope they get exonerated and then the judge orders them to hold halbach down while Brendan shits in his mouth. That seems like Wisconsin justice to me.
It's always been strange to me they didn't find any of her personal stuff? Was it all burned up? Would a bonfire be hot enough to completely melt and destroy a bunch of keys? And how many women do you know that just have a single key on an ugly lanyard? I would have loved to hear testimony on something as stupid as friends explaining the keys she carried around because that looked like a spare key to me. And why would Avery have access to a spare key. And certainly the cops, family and ex-boyfriend could have had or had access to a spare key.
The taped phone call from that pedo looking officer to his dispatch about the licence plate number really stood out to me. It was pretty obvious he was looking at the car when he made that call. That was the most blatant shady shit of the whole trial.
Last edited by Jive Turkey; 01-02-2016 at 09:02 PM.
And what are they feeding these fuckers in jail?
The thing I think is really odd is how convinced the brother is. If my sister was killed, and the investigation and trial went down like this, I wouldn't even come close to having closure.
I know they talk about it a bit, but the county had a 36 million dollar lawsuit on it's hand, which insurance said they wouldn't cover. This would essential bankrupt the county and PD I assume? That's a lot of motivation right there. I think the only two possibilities is that SA did kill her (dubious), or the either lenk or colburn (or both) pulled her over, shot her in the head and proceeded with the set up. Anything else is just too coincidental. All items found could have been tainted and planted by lenk/colburn.
But who fucken knows. Crazy shit. Averys life was ruined the moment he got stupid and ran down / threatened his cousin who was married to a cop.
Oh and Brendens first lawyer should be disbarred and imprisoned for the shit he pulled.
Prison might be the best place for Brendan - lord knows he's eating well, being educated, gets to watch TV and play video games I think too.
The reason for him being there is bullshit, but its not like he would've contributed to society.
Not reading the thread to avoid spoilers. Watching episode 4 right now...
Should've kept it to 8 episodes. The last two are really anticlimactic. I get that there was still a bit of a story to tell, but most of it could've been rolled into the first 8 and ended with a few end notes on screen
I honestly do not believe he had anything to do with it. At all.
You immaculately clean every single piece of evidence left anywhere (keep in mind, she was shot 22 times) yet forget about your car crusher and don't notice you're bleeding in her car. And just decide to not clean the trunk of the car after cleaning every other damn thing?
22 times this woman was shot yet the only DNA of hers present was on a lone bullet found under suspicious circumstances in his garage and her blood in the trunk of her vehicle. Why was it only found in her vehicle? Seems to me the logical answer was the vehicle was used to transport her dead body to the Avery property and then badly hidden in an open spot on the lot.
How'd you like Brendan's reaction when the cute lawyer was talking to him near the end of the series? He looks exactly like you'd expect some prepubescent teen would react. His deformed incest dick is about to go right through that table. But sure, he definitely looks like someone who stabbed a girl, cut her throat, and fucked her while she was tied down.
A crushed car is a whole lot harder to notice being taken off a salvage yard's property than the killer driving it away. Ditching crushed cars is literally the business of a lot of scrapyards.
There was also allegedly an incinerator on the property and he instead decided to burn her in a bonfire he invited his nephew too, as well as burn her in a burn barrel, as well as a burn location near the pit or whatever they called it. This also goes along with Avery killing her in the garage for his trial, but them killing her in the trailer for the Nephew's trial. The prosecution wasn't even able to put together a coherent timeline, much less a plausible story for how it could have happened.
So much moving of the body, leaving evidence laying around, and not using the few tools familiar to the killer. Why kill her, burn her, crush and ship out the car... when you can kill her in the bedroom, then kill her again in the garage, clean the entire trailer and garage of all traces of her but accidentally leave a bullet uncleaned, and then burn her body, move her burned remains to another location to burn it more, ignore the incinerator, then move some of it to a third location. And of course after killing her in both the garage and the bedroom, haul her bloody body around in the back of her own car up and down the 30 foot driveway a few times then simply park it in the back of the property instead of crushing it and calling some place to pick it up as scrap. And naturally a key wouldn't be fit for an incinerator nor a crusher, nor throwing it somewhere deep into the pit or woods, and instead better just leave it in the trailer with your own dna (but not finger prints!) after expertly cleaning everything else so well, except for cleaning the car you left on your own property, definitely leave that full of the victim and your own blood.
IF Steven Avery did it, he was begging to be caught and would have confessed by now for the attention.
And I thought she was shot with a .22, not shot 22 times.
EDIT: I'm fairly sure, but not 100% sure that they said her body was shot 22 times. But yes the weapon was definitely a .22 so maybe I was just so dumbfounded by everything else that had happened that I heard that wrong.
The only other explaination is Steve Avery is a retard Dexter
Cleans every speck of DNA from murder scene and rape house
Just tosses bones out back because fuck it
Something I either missed or the documentary didn't cover but what was the motive the prosecution presented for killing this lady he has worked with? I mean was it just he's a psycho killer? lol
And vehicles are ditched all the time after murders. Driving the car to a secluded area directly after the murder before anyone was looking for it wouldn't be cause for suspicion. Keeping the crushed vehicle on your property, then calling someone to haul it off or then hauling it off after some time has passed would be much more risky
Last edited by Jive Turkey; 01-03-2016 at 04:42 AM.
[QUOTE=Jive Turkey;1358191]It's just from reading about some of the stuff left out of the doc, it seems like a plausible scenario that Avery did kill her...[quote]
What stuff? Haven't personally seen much that is all that damning.
So, instead of driving the car to a secluded area directly after the murder before anyone was looking for it because it wouldn't be cause for suspicion, Avery instead drove it to a portion of his own property and then kept the key in his bedroom. Because that was smarter than crushing the car, loading it into a truck, and hauling it away. Holy shit, man, that Avery guy whose family owns the scrapyard is hauling away crushed cars! He probably killed someone!And vehicles are ditched all the time after murders. Driving the car to a secluded area directly after the murder before anyone was looking for it wouldn't be cause for suspicion. Keeping the crushed vehicle on your property, then calling someone to haul it off or then hauling it off after some time has passed would be much more risky
I tend to presume innocence until there is proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Which is how our legal system is supposed to work. And the quoted fact alone is enough to give reasonable (more than reasonable really) doubt.Cleans every speck of DNA from murder scene and rape house
Just tosses bones out back because fuck it
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