I want a description of what the electrons are doing. Well, okay, I'll accept just the actions of the molecules or proteins.
Anyone try it? A co-worker mentioned it to me yesterday claiming that it works for him and his family (a drop on each foot and he hasn't been sick over a year when he started). I'm a little skeptical, but in the same vein, I'm also open minded and believe there are aspects of holistic/far east medicines can work in conjunction with western more chemical/synthetic based treatments.
Plenty of articles out there, but I want to hear real testimonials.
I want a description of what the electrons are doing. Well, okay, I'll accept just the actions of the molecules or proteins.
Last edited by AngryGerbil; 12-10-2015 at 06:03 PM.
Oh, I love this stuff. I found that it works better if you put one drop on each testicle. I support this product.
I heard if you gargle bleach you stop worrying about your other problems. Give it a try and report back.
The name alone should be an indicator to its effectiveness, methinks.
Clinical pharmacologists get asked shit like this a lot. Interactions with marketed medicin, alternative medicine, toxicity, preggers, psychiatrics, idiopathic, etc.
Anywho, micromedex is a good place to start. Key is to know and search the actual ingredients of your shit - like powder or essential oils, what's being used to extract and how is it done (concentrations, actual ingredients).
I love this:
`Young Living Products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease.`
Thieves Essential Oil | Young Living Essential Oils
Surest indicator of bullshit there is.`Young Living Products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease.`
Half my neighbors are trying to sell this shit lately. It takes all my self control to keep from screaming "IDIOT" at them for simultaneously falling for essential oils and multi-level marketing scams.
The +2 Dexterity really helped with my Move Silently checks.
I'd agree there needs to be more stringent requirements to stop this dumb shit. Fools and their money are easily parted though and most of this garbage is as harmless to the user as it is the crap they are trying to cure or prevent.
The name literally tells you that your money is being stolen.
What happened to the guy in the weight loss thread advocating baking soda cleanses? This seems right up his alley.
steve jobs would approve.
Capitalism! Keep your government hands off my pyramid scheme!
One day I hope to be as attractive and well spoken as Tuco!
Thieves Oil? Sounds like an Uncharted game title.
Joking aside its time to get serious...
I've been using this product that's been on the underground market since 2007 and has probably the best Yahoo answer reviews I've ever seen. It's called.....
What I've been doing is snorting big lines of Cinnamilk up my nose. It's cured every ailment giving me boundless energy every morning. Great product and I highly recommend A+++.
Last edited by Regime; 12-10-2015 at 05:27 PM.
Cures what ails ya.
I guarantee it!
The probiotics that work come in the form of freeze-dried poo-pills. Taking acidophilus is 1) using the wrong fucking bacteria 2) like pissing in the ocean.
So can I marinade garlic with this Thieves Oil and end up as an immortal?
I have a whole slew of essential oils including thieves. I was introduced to them because I work in an industry that is full of alternative/pro-homeopathic people who tout their health claims. They smell nice when I use them in my diffuser. That's all they're good for, though I admit I haven't tried rubbing any on my testicles.
However. I haven't gotten sick since I started jacking off exclusively to porn that is at least 720p. Maybe give that a try?
If anyone else likes essential oils though this blend is the shit. Smells so good.
My girlfriend falls for a lot of this shit. It's in her family on her mother's side and it apparently goes back generations. I have assigned myself the job of quietly making sure she doesn't hurt herself. I don't try to fight her on ineffective placebo shit, just the stuff that might hurt her. Which, honestly, isn't much. So I find myself fact-checking some of the dumber shit she gets off Pinterest. On the topic of probiotics I can say that the idea behind it is sound. The idea that there are bacterial fauna that can hurt us and bacterial fauna that can help us came up in the early 20th century by a guy who went to the school of Louis Pasteur and is unquestionably a sound one. The fact that there are microbes in our gut that were passed to us in the placenta that help us digest and operate is a firm fact. However, the rub lies in the amount of supposed understanding and control we have over these colonies of microbes. We know they are there, we know they are legion, but we cannot describe with any level of detail how these colonies interact with one another or what the addition or subtraction of any numbers of any of them might do to the overall outcome of the human in which they reside. Not to mention the fact that every human has a different specific colony. It would be like saying, "I know each and every floral and faunal species that exists in every different forest on Earth and I can with absolute certainty know that if we increase the number of black ants by this exact amount in each forest, that the overall health of these forests will unquestionably improve." It's just too complicated and nebulous a thing to say with any degree of confidence.
So while the basic idea of probiotics is a sound one, our collective understanding and level of technological control over them is still in the stone-age and the claims being made by the manufacturers are all inflated and bogus. The good news is that for the most part, they seem to have no difference in outcome than placebo so all you are really losing is a bit of money.
I get my biotics from the seven day old tikka masala in the fridge.
I've mentioned in the religion thread that people who believe in woo are more frustrating to deal with than the religious. It's for the exact reason that you said Brutal that any evidence is considered propaganda. What's more likely... that big corporations own worldwide the government agencies, the universities, the independent labs, the disease control centers and the disease societies. Or that maybe, just maybe, the blog they read on the internet written by a "naturopath" who took a two weekend course was bullshit. Of course a global conspiracy against $50 a bottle sugar water is the truth!
At least the religious people can hold onto some sad deistic non-intervention nothing god. The woo people are conspiracy theorists who flat out ignore mountains of evidence that is right in front of them.
if you drink the urine of a child under 5 years, it cures all ailments. its just middle eastern science
.Originally Posted by Nathan
Yo, I heard Cinnamilk is the real deal. That girl that beat Rhonda Rousey in a fight....cinnamilk.
When I was younger, a friend of mines father said it best to us one evening when I was having dinner over there. "If you have a toothache, you'll go to the dentist right? That's not even a decision that's just sense. Why, in Gods name, is it that when these idiots have heart attacks they go looking for snake oil solutions?"
Depends if it's water or fat soluble. Fat solubles can get you into trouble. For example -- Iron and Calcium share an uptake path in digestion. It's a partial pressure kind of situation. Also the body has no efficient excretion path for iron. I'm not saying that iron supplements are bad for you, i'm only saying that they can create problems which you'll never see with something like vitamin c.
Water solubles will just get pissed out. Fat solubles might or might not just get pooped out.
So do you believe Chiropractic services is also a crock of shit? Lot of the same shit that's being spouted here was said 20-30 years ago about that. I actually dated a girl years ago that was a registered homeopathic "Doctor" and some of her shit actually did work (not all of it admittedly). Just asked if anyone had any experiences with it but I should have expected the peanut gallery coming out in full force. Shit...I'm a 100% believer in western medicine and was actually of Pre-Med in college (until I figured out I don't want to help sick people all the time) but I also don't have such a myopic view of things and will slam the door on hundreds/thousands of years of alternative medicine.
The founder of chiropractic believed that all human ailments originated in the spine. Syphilis? Spine. Mental retardation? Spine. High blood pressure? Spine.
The modern practice is one of distancing itself from that rather ignorant base assumption so as not to have their entire profession irrevocably humiliated and rendered obsolete and extinct.
I also agree that in the modern world, the mos maiorum is always the correct way. So can we bring back bleeding, exorcism, slavery, and cupping yet? It was practiced for centuries so it must be right.... right?
Last edited by AngryGerbil; 12-11-2015 at 03:16 PM.
Subluxation does not occur, this is a fact, and yet was the core of chiropractics.
That said, the field has moved beyond the nonsense of its origins, in the same way chemistry is no longer about alchemy.
But if you're attending a chiropractic doctor who is popping your neck and spine with his hands, and has a degree from a diploma mill, you're attending a quack.
Same goes with acupuncture.
There is no 100s or 1000s of years of "alternative medicine". Alternative medicine is a recent phenomena with a foundation in new age spiritualism and hippy dipshits.
Chiropractic other than the physical part is bs, especially that which leans on Palmer. Whether or not something is true for one thing does not mean it's automatically true for something else on the basis that you see a weak similarity or correlation. Your personal experience is not really grade A evidence - anecdotal belongs to the lowest category of evidence. As for homeopathy, this has never been shown to work in a scientific double blinded study, nor do any meta analysis show any effect - as in peer reviewed and published in respectable scientific journals. You know, science, not claims and appeal to historical usage. Since you know differently, I'm thinking there is a Nobel Prize waiting for you - go get it now, be famous, prove us wrong.
Pre-med didn't teach you critical thinking, the scientific method, basic science studies, medical statistics, pharmacology, biochemistry, physiology or any of the basics for understanding this subject? You're slinging straw man fallacies like a monkey slings poop. No one is slamming the door on anything. The difference is, the pharmaceuticals of the western world are big on identifying the active ingredients, compounds, analyzing them, categorizing them, testing them in clinical trials etc. so as to recognize the mechanisms and actual properties - interactions, toxcicity and finally medicinal usages. It seems the only ones hell bent on wanting something to not be examined are the self proclaimed experts on natural or alternative medicine.
Do you even pharma?
Most of the homeopathic stuff works in the same way sugar pills work. The dilution they state in the homeopathic stuff is so low tap water is basically the active ingredient. So save money drink tap water. The actual manipulations of the spine that chiropractors do can help but that is one of the few things they do that has actual real benefit thats not placebo.
One of the deals with suppliments is the shit you buy at wal-mart is just that, shit. I was low on magnesium. The magnesium you get over the counter everywhere is magnesium oxide which is a fancy word for a laxative. You can get a different type of magnesium of that's more easily absorbed and works much better without the side effects, but it's not super cheap. Same thing when I had to get B12. The good stuff you take under the tongue and is different than the stuff you get down at the local walgreens.
You seem to be a bit lacking in the critical thinking department. Are you sure you "decided" you didn't want to help sick people anymore, or it was more that med school flunked you?
i have brain damage from preworkouts. can feel the side affects after years of 1,3 DMMA, booze, dip. brain is fucked.
Chiropractic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
There is no good evidence that chiropractic is effective for the treatment of any medical condition, except perhaps for certain kinds of back pain. Generally, the research carried out into the effectiveness of chiropractic has been of poor quality.
There is a wide range of ways to measure treatment outcomes. Chiropractic care, like all medical treatment, benefits from the placebo response. It is difficult to construct a trustworthy placebo for clinical trials of spinal manipulative therapy (SMT), as experts often disagree about whether a proposed placebo actually has no effect. The efficacy of maintenance care in chiropractic is unknown.
My father suffers from a pinched spinal nerve and slipped disc from sitting on a wallet in his back pocket for like 40 years while he worked, and chiropractics helped resolve that without surgery, but it was a physician prescribed chiropractor and the actual procedure involves low level electric stimulation of the surrounding muscle tissue, not spinal manipulation.
They basically run a small electric charge through the muscles which forces them to relax, relieving pressure in the region, reducing swelling in the area. Its not a permanent solution, either, about every year or so it still flares up and he has to go back in for a few weeks for the same treatment.
It was just an alternative to having invasive surgery.
But the foundational premise of chiropractics, that the spine can become misaligned and throw off the bodys energy distribution, and manipulation of vertebrae relieves these subluxations and cures the body through restoring proper energy flow is complete horseshit nonsense.
I've also had family that benefits from chiropracty. But it's one dude up who is helpful, there are others that are not helpful. And yep, just like Hodj's dad... the treatments are not corrective ones. They have to be reapplied every so often. Which isn't a huge mark against it IMHO -- there are situations like that in real medicine too. Sometimes it's just better to deal with a symptom if it's erratic.
For my dad, he's got a fucked up shoulder. And that joint... surgeons don't like that joint. It's a fucked up weird joint. But that chiropractor is able to trick it back into usefullness and it'll stop aching him for a few months. A couple of days might be placebo. I don't think that's true of a couple of months.
Hey, if it works it works. That one guy is good at dealing with shoulders. I don't have any personal experience with accupuncture, but i've heard similar stories. Depends on the practitioner. Which makes it more of an art than a science. Aspirin does not depend on who gives it to you.
I had a chiropractor office in San Diego that also did in house massage therapy and it was all billed to insurance. You saw the dude and he did the "adjustments" and then you went in the back to get an hour massage. You could get 12 a year.
I can't find one in my area here in North Carolina. I did it just for the massage, he did get my joints to crack and who knows what benefits that had but the massage afterwards was amazing. The wife and I would both go in monthly.
oderint dum metuant
Did you miss the part where
1: it was physician prescribed and
2: they utilize specialized equiptment involving electrical shocks to reduce swelling?
Not all aspects of modern chiropractics is nonsense.
Even a broken clock is right twice a day. Its 100% sham "profession".
Wait, people go to chiropractors for reasons other than to get aligntments/adjustments? I'll believe that those work (as long as you correct your faults that lead to said alignment issues and whatnot in the first place after your adjustments (aka fixing posture, stretching, etc.)).
You should probably just stop talking since you keep missing the point that a medical professional specializing in spinal conditions was the one who prescribed the treatments and recommended the chiropractor to my father at the time as an alternative to invasive surgery which was costly, with a long recovery time, and other potential complications that arise from treatments such as fusing vertebral discs together.
At no time did his treatment involve spinal manipulation or attempts to "adjust" or treat subluxations, so no quackery was involved. The treatment is a form of electrical stimulation which relaxes the muscle tissue in the area, allowing the region of the herniated disc to reduce in size, thus relieving the pressure on the nerve that is being pinched, which resolves the pain and relieves the symptoms.
As you can see from this image, a herniated disc occurs when the intervertebral disc bulges out from between two vertebrae and puts pressure on a nerve. This is a fairly common condition, particularly in the lumbar vertebrae, that occurs as people age, particular if they sit a lot for their job. When this occurs, it can press upon a nerve, leading to pain, numbness, and other secondary effects in limbs, as well as reducing flexibility. Often medical professionals opt not to operate to resolve this issue, but rather go the exact route that my father was recommended to take at the time, which is the use of electrical impulses to relax the muscles in the area, gradually reducing the swelling and withdrawing the disc from pressing on the nerve. In fact, this is one of the most common treatments for said condition.
There's literally nothing quackery about it. Chiropractics didn't invent this procedure. They simply apply it. Therefore the position you've taken that this is a form of quackery similar to chiropractic attempts to resolve "subluxations" is simply a position formed from your lack of understanding of the actual issue and procedure.
This is from the American Association of Neurological Surgeons.Treatment
Fortunately, the majority of herniated discs do not require surgery. However, a very small percentage of people with herniated, degenerated discs may experience symptomatic or severe and incapacitating low back pain, which significantly affects their daily life.
The initial treatment for a herniated disc usually is conservative and nonsurgical. (Your doctor may prescribe bed rest or advise you to maintain a low, painless activity level for a few days to several weeks. This helps the spinal nerve inflammation to decrease.-bedrest not recommended)
A herniated disc frequently is treated with nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory medication if the pain is only mild to moderate. An epidural steroid injection may be performed utilizing a spinal needle under X-ray guidance to direct the medication to the exact level of the disc herniation.
Your doctor may recommend physical therapy. The therapist will perform an in-depth evaluation, which, combined with the doctor's diagnosis, will dictate a treatment specifically designed for patients with herniated discs. Therapy may include pelvic traction, gentle massage, ice and heat therapy, ultrasound, electrical muscle stimulation, and stretching exercises. Pain medication and muscle relaxants also may be beneficial in conjunction with physical therapy.
Proper procedure was followed, no quackery was involved.
Your chiropractor may be using legitimate medicine on you, but if he was truly a legitimate person he wouldnt call himself a chiropractor.
Nice goal post shift there.
Shifting goalposts is what happened when chiropractors abandoned their bullshit art and started practicing medically approved physical therapy. This is a dumb semantic argument. Hodj is basically in agreement with everyone here.
You don't need a degree to become a physical therapist and if a physical therapist wants to call themselves a chiropractor who gives a shit.
Your fathers chiropractor may be using legitimate medicine on you, but if he was truly a legitimate person he wouldnt call himself a chiropractor.
There, I moved them back.
Herniated disk - Mayo Clinic
Like Ancient said, you're just engaged in a shitty semantics argument over names, rather than actually dealing with the situation as it has been explained to you.Therapy
Physical therapists can show you positions and exercises designed to minimize the pain of a herniated disk. A physical therapist may also recommend:
Heat or ice
Short-term bracing for the neck or lower back
The wrong type of treatment for herniated discs
Proper treatment for herniated discs
It doesn't matter what the person who is doing the treatment calls themselves, what matters is that they're following properly prescribed medical treatment as discerned by rigorous examination and medical evaluation combined with proper peer review.
Last edited by hodj; 12-12-2015 at 07:56 PM.
So why would one go through the process of becoming a chiropractor only to practice legitimate medicine? If youre going to provide physical therapy treatments why not just call your self a physical therapist?
Then there are the ones who get their degree from online diploma mills and places like Liberty University and shit.
That's why you go to ones that are prescribed by legitimate medical professionals, and not just any clinic you walk past on the street.
Chiropractor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
So its more complex than just "Everyone who calls themselves a chiropractor is a quack", but it is a fact that subluxation "treatment", which was what chiropractics was founded on originally, is nonsense, in the exact same way that alchemical attempts to turn lead into gold are nonsense, but the field of chemistry has moved beyond that.Training
Main articles: Chiropractic education and List of chiropractic schools
Regardless of the model of education utilized, prospective chiropractors without prior health care education or experience must spend no less than 4200 student/teacher contact hours (or the equivalent) in four years of full‐time education. This includes a minimum of 1000 hours of supervised clinical training. Upon meeting all clinical and didactic requirements of chiropractic school, a degree in chiropractic is granted. However, in order to legally practice, chiropractors, like all self regulated health care professionals, must be licensed. All Chiropractic Examining Boards require candidates to complete a 12-month clinical internship to obtain licensure. Licensure is granted following successful completion of all state/provincial and national board exams so long as the chiropractor maintains malpractice insurance. Nonetheless, there are still some variations in educational standards internationally, depending on admission and graduation requirements. Chiropractic is regulated in North America by state/provincial statute, and also—to some extent—by the Business and Professions Code (e.g., in the state of California)--and the Case Law.. Further, it has been argued that, at least in some states (in the USA), that this license subsumed the previous "drugless practitioner" license, and includes—within its scope of practice—that of the previous discipline.
Chiropractics is fairly new (began in 1895), so its in a time where past bad ideas are being cast off, modern medical techniques are being adopted, and so its a complex issue. The division between "Straight" chiropractic practitioners (people who only use spinal manipulation and still buy into the pseudo science and woo/metaphysics the field was originally founded in) and "mixers" (people who combine aspects of physical therapy, modern medicine, etc. with some spinal manipulation) is why you're getting hung up on the issue and not being able to see there is more nuance there.
Anyway, the treatment my father received was not remotely related to subluxation "treatments" and therefore its really irrelevant. You're hung up on a word, and that's pretty much the root of this discussion. Whether it was a chiropractor or a physical therapist doing the TENS treatment, the fact is that it has been demonstrated as an effective pain reliever and inflammation reducer for spinal neuropathies related to herniated discs, my father's neurological specialist wasn't involved in some vast conspiracy to profit by sending him to a "quack", no one was a "mark" in the situation.
What was done is the typical procedure for treatment. They do an cortisone or other type of pain killer injection for immediate pain, they attempt non invasive medical procedures to relieve the swelling and try to allow the problem to heal naturally, and then only if these practices fail do they proceed to the more severe treatments, like removal of a vertebral disc and fusion of vertebra with a metal disc to stabilize the region, as this type of surgery is not something to be taken lightly, heals slowly, and is generally last resort.
Similar situation over here, easier to get into than medicine. As BA students the chiro-quacks follow the same courses as physicians, PE is a separate class. MA studies is where they differentiate for their cand.manu., clinical biomechanics. They intern for a year after this doing god knows what.
That's not really a fair comparison, Ancient. We have nurses and nurse assistants as well. This is just a step close to physicians for the basics, but a different specialization. Surgeons and internal medicine follow different paths too in the states but with shared basics, no?
It's not a bad question. Chiropractors tend to be freelance, as in they're associated with a medical group but they build their own practice. Physical therapists tend to be employed directly by an institution.
Think of it as the difference between a contractor and a consultant.
They are also slightly different fields of study. I think. I don't know offhand where the divergence is and would assume that the study is 90% congruent. I assume that the chirpractor has a more in depth focus on bone alignments, joints, tendons, ligaments and conducting specific procedures which will be useful to his practice. You don't -actually- practice sticking needles into people's spines in med school. That's what clinical experience is for. I have to think it's a different clinical focus.
But you can be a PT with a nursing degree. I don't think a RN can go open up a chiropractors shop willy nilly, and a NP wouldn't. There's a little bit of social status in it, I guess.
Last edited by Iannis; 12-12-2015 at 11:26 PM.
It would appear that varies by state, province and/or country, but for the most part, yes you do. And many are master or doctoral level.Originally Posted by The Ancient
No one said it was something specific to chiropractors.
I certainly didnt.
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