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Thread: Paragon, Epic Games(Unreal) MOBA, PC/PS4

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    Video Game Expert Pyros's Avatar
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    Paragon, Epic Games(Unreal) MOBA, PC/PS4

    Last thread for today's PSX reveals.

    They've been teasing about it for a week or so, but we finally get some actual meat. From the website:

    "Paragon is the MOBA from Epic Games that puts you in the fight with explosive action, direct third-person control, and deep strategic choice.
    Paragon is coming to PC and PlayStation 4, with paid Early Access in Spring 2016 and Open Beta in Summer 2016.
    5v5. Three lanes. Jungles. Minions. Towers. Cores. Experience the classic elements of a MOBA from a whole new perspective in Paragon."

    It's a 3rd person MOBA with a lot of typical elements, instead of say Overwatch which is more of a FPS or a lot of the other MOBAs that have a lot of variations(Gigantic, Paladins). Basically, think Smite, but with crazy realistic graphics. You can register for beta which starts early 2016 at Play Paragon

    Reveal Trailer:


    Gameplay Trailer(which looks the same as the reveal one which looked like CGI but is just in engine stuff:

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    Registered User Zaphid's Avatar
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    This should've been a mode in the next Unreal Tournament, not a standalone title.

    It looks VERY pretty, I give it that, but as any competitive game you need a minimum amount of people for matchmaking to work and you want the least amount of obstacles possible.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swagdaddy View Post
    Think I'm about done with this thread, I think I'm being trolled at this point.

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    limb by limb jooka's Avatar
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    find it odd they say PC and PS4 but nothing about X Box 1.

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    Registered User Palum's Avatar
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    Not enough of a market segment.

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    Xbox 1 is basically DOA right now.

    Maybe if they sell enough this Christmas, it'll make a comeback.

    Really, the gaming world right now is almost exclusively divided between PS4 and PC this gen.

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    Feint, Slash, Stab, Bash Sulrn's Avatar
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    Short of an entire rehaul of their gaming/market strategy from the top down I don't see Xbox 1 going anywhere. Regardless of any exclusives or holiday box sales.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jooka View Post
    find it odd they say PC and PS4 but nothing about X Box 1.
    Probably Sony bought the exclusivity for consoles but it wasn't worth buying a full exclusivity or whatever.

    Game looks good, but will need to see the gameplay and stuff.

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    Registered User pyksel's Avatar
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    Looks like the next wave of invites have gone out for their test this weekend. Once you're in, you get invited to all future online tests.

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    WTB test access!!!

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    Soldaris X X E X X's Avatar
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    I signed up for the Beta - should be fun. WTB access if anyone wants to share.

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    Registered User Eonan's Avatar
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    I could have sworn I signed up for the beta for this, but guess I didn't. I really enjoy Smite (First person MOBA) and am glad to see that area of the genre expanding.

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    Video Game Expert Pyros's Avatar
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    Getting in early alpha on a moba kinda sucks though, low hero count and stuff like matchmaking not working properly/not having ratings means the games are complete garbage, so not in a hurry to get in the game.

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    Registered User Quineloe's Avatar
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    Either you have a beta account for this or you are a stinkin terrorist.

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    Played 3 co-op games so far and seems pretty fun; movement speed abit slow but they said they are adding 10% next patch. Card system is a nice mix of gear and upgrades basically. Not sure I'd leave Smite for it but we will see how the development goes.

    I like my mages and since its abit limited in choices I went the Howitzer and have been destroying co-op (so hard I know!) but when I get back this afternoon will try the pvp. Definitely nice graphics and haven't had any bugs or crashes/lag issues yet. Wish they showed damage done in stats though wtf~!

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    Anyone playing in alpha this weekend? They made a few improvements like key mapping which is a huge difference as well as movement speed.

    To early to tell but its growing on me, definitely no Smite but with a long development infront of it, has some potential.

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    Registered User Eonan's Avatar
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    Didn't get an invite unfortunately.

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    Janitor Tuco's Avatar
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    Dumb question: What's the difference between a third person MOBA and a third person shooter?

    The gameplay here looks a lot like ME'3s multiplayer which was awesome.

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    Get raped khorum's Avatar
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    Camera distance? I always thought Smite was closer to WoW's view distance and playstyle (3rd-person WASD) than a 3rd person shooter thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuco View Post
    Dumb question: What's the difference between a third person MOBA and a third person shooter?

    The gameplay here looks a lot like ME'3s multiplayer which was awesome.
    Kinda depends on the game mechanics really, but like if you compare Smite to ME, it's slower, aiming is massively assisted(as in you only really kinda target stuff to target them), in most cases the skills are more important than the basic attacks which are generic and boring with no reloading or any fancy stuff(it's moba autoattacks basically), the level/items/character stats define the power levels a lot more than any sort of aiming skill(there's still skill involved, but a lot is teamwork skill, how to play as a team, target focusing, positionning, this kind of shit). Not gonna account for the fact Smite has no verticality since Paragon does and it's not super relevant.

    This game looks a LOT better than most mobas so the fact it's a moba might not be super apparent at first view, but I assume it plays a lot differently than what you'd expect. Haven't played it yet though so might be wrong but assuming it's what I'd expect, your comparison is kinda like comparing Diablo and Dota. They're both top down(kinda), you control one char with skills and items, but ultimately, they're insanely different games.

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    Registered Hoser Quaid's Avatar
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    I am super hype for this game.

    Between this, Overwatch, and FOR HONOR, I'm gonna be overloaded with stuff to play in 2016.

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    Registered User khalid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuco View Post
    The gameplay here looks a lot like ME'3s multiplayer which was awesome.
    Third person MOBA with ME3 multiplayer gameplay?

    I'm fucking hard right now.
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    MOBA's are driven by an different subset of skills. Even 3rd person games like smite good FPS players can sometimes struggle because so much depends on proper character equipment build, use of skills with relatively long cool downs, being aware of cool downs on 9 other players at any given time etc. Also have very defined meta's where certain people have certain roles and map control is so important. Just alot more over arching strategy and abit less twitch reflexes.

    That said, Paragon definitely has all main compotnents of a traditional MOBA, it definitely plays that way. It is alot less responsive at this point in time then Smite for instance; less chance to pull some awesome jukes etc so we will see how that turns out as they make it through alpha. People complained during our last alpha and they buffed speed by 10 or so % but i rather see an increase abit more, its just so hard to do anything but try to go toe to toe if you get into a fight. One kind of cool and different thing compared to most moba's in Para is you can go into like a super sprint that is unlimited and be started to cast any time any where, takes like 5 seconds to charge up and then you got mad speed. If you get damaged by a player it stops it I believe.

    Makes for some good change up, so for instance you rotate to try and help your lane that is getting ganked and they just finish wiping them, you have close out speed until you do an action so you can close the ground on them and force a fight. Promoates alot of rotation and making sure you want to engage on someone.

    They need some more card diviresty and upgrades but still a pretty cool system. As is for an alpha i am impressed out side of the mobility wh ile fighting. Going back to smite and playing ranked 1v1 joust you can do so much more and player skill stands out alot more.

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    I have 3 alpha invites for this weekend, send me a PM if interested (and for the love of god if i give you one give me +1 so i can not be sitting at -1 for another year!).

    Alpha weekend starts sat morning, they added a whole new group of cards to expand builds so looking forward to it. I've played the last 2 alpha weekends and its got potential but still raw in some areas.

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    Soldaris X X E X X's Avatar
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    Many thanks!
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    I have 1 Alpha ticket for this weekend still if anyone wants shoot me a PM please.

    Looks like you can group this weekend as well, im xTurbo in game if anyone wants to play a few matches you can add me (bottom right of main screen). I have curse as well.

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    MAKE EARTH EXTINCT AGAIN! Abefroman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turbo View Post
    I have 1 Alpha ticket for this weekend still if anyone wants shoot me a PM please.

    Looks like you can group this weekend as well, im xTurbo in game if anyone wants to play a few matches you can add me (bottom right of main screen). I have curse as well.
    I already did yesterday! Where is my free shit!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abefroman View Post
    I already did yesterday! Where is my free shit!
    Sending now, sorry missed it.

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    MAKE EARTH EXTINCT AGAIN! Abefroman's Avatar
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    You the man.
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    Registered Hoser Quaid's Avatar
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    I'm in. Sweet.

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    This game looks sweet. If anyone else gets an alpha ticket I'd be interested in playing

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    Large round of alpha test all week for those that have access. I took the last round or two off but jumping in they are starting to really flesh this out with the addition of way more card diversity and cost variance combined with innate passives for each character. Also a master system it appears that rewards you with card packs etc (looks like a way to also get some of the rare ones). Just jumping in to fuck around but i'll probably be playing nights if anyone has access and wants to join up vs the random idiots

    xTurbo is the ingame name.

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    All Heroes Free, Early Access Starts March 18 : paragon

    Founder’s Packs will cost $19.99, and include access to the game, skins, boosts, and other cosmetic items you can unlock by playing. Challenger Packs ($59.99) and Master Packs ($99.99) will include a huge number of skins, unlockable items, boosts, a unique skin, and a Founder’s Pack to give to a friend. We’ll be sharing complete details soon.
    I'll probably throw 20 bucks at this game.

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    50/50; if so i'll probably get a masters pack and have a founders pack for someone (required to queue against me and let me kill you over and over to make my stats look leet !?!@?!?!?)

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    I do like aspects of it alot but Smite feels alot more fluid with better control over your gods. Just seems like in this when you get into a slug fest you have pretty limited options. Definitely a solid game though.

    I play Gidioen (sp) almost all the time, i love the portal into a meteor into black hole combo, can shred.

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    limb by limb jooka's Avatar
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    been watching this on and off today at work, looks fun

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    Played a couple hours this morning just versus AI checking out the heroes. Game is super fun. Steel and Sparrow are my favorites so far.

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    Gideon is my favorite, going to play it over the weekend some more and decide if I want to view it as a replacement for smite or just a casual fun.

    I got the masters pack so I have a free founders pack to give away. First person to either

    A) successfully name the hands down best Final Fantasy game in history (FFT excluded; my opinion= FACT!)
    B) Correctly point out the relevance of the name "Maldan" to the early Everquest days (doubt anyone gets this, very specific and niche; hint: tunnels)

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    I mean, I already have one so I don't need the code but 14 is, hands down, the best Final Fantasy. I've put hundreds of more hours in to that then all the others combined.

    Steel is my favorite so far. If you build him fighter he is so legit. Gideon can get a crazy amount of kills with his rock fall though. I bet that ability gets toned down a little. It seems mroe powerful then the other aoe's.

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    Registered User a c i d.f l y's Avatar
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    Can someone give me a run down of how this game plays differently than Smite, Paladins, Overwatch? From what I've played, this one seems a lot slower paced, and more full tri-lane, creep killing DOTA style than a brawler like HOTS.

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    #barnsohard Intrinsic's Avatar
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    I've been playing this the past couple of days and between dota, LoL, Smite... almost everything, I'm not sure there has been a worse group of MOBA players. No one has any idea what is going on or what to do. Everyone treats this like team deathmatch. It is kind of infuriating. Having said that, it is pretty fun. Very shallow right now and seems there are quite a few cards that have been disabled which further limits what you can do build wise. Was doing super good as Muriel support and decided to switch it up with some Kallari for fun.
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    Quote Originally Posted by a c i d.f l y View Post
    Can someone give me a run down of how this game plays differently than Smite, Paladins, Overwatch? From what I've played, this one seems a lot slower paced, and more full tri-lane, creep killing DOTA style than a brawler like HOTS.
    Differences from Smite -
    1. Cards - before the match you build a "deck" of items that you can purchase in the game.
    2. True 3rd dimension - Elevation matters. Similar to a WoW battleground you can stand on a ramp and they have to go up the ramp to get to you instead of just walking to you from any direction to punch you. This makes positioning in certain areas for team fights super important.
    3. Harvesters - Starting at 3 minutes, Harvesters open. You can use an item to place a harvester at one of the pre-determined areas. These basically passive build up gold. When you go stand on them everyone in your team gets the stored up gold and it begins to passively build up gold again.
    4. Last Hit - There is no last hit in Smite

    @Intrinsic - I feel your pain. I logged on yesterday to get my quick daily win so I went co-op PVE. We had 4 Junglers. No one was killing the jungle creeps though, they were just wandering back and forth between lanes killing the computer players. I had to push two lanes to get the super creeps moving. It took 45 minutes to do an AI game

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    #barnsohard Intrinsic's Avatar
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    Yeah, to expound on what Arcaus said...

    You construct a Deck out of your overall card pool with a maximum of 40 points. Each card varies in value from 1pt - 4pt (they may go higher, not sure). Cards have stuff like +100 health, +phys damage, +cool down reduction, pretty much standard stuff you can come up with, higher value cards have a combination of things. Cards are either Equipment or Upgrades. Equipment cards have three Upgrade slots that you spend your currency in game to improve. So like, if I start with an "Adamant Edge" that gives me +7.6 Physical Damage and +100 Health, I can then slot it with up to 3 different upgrade cards to further increase Physical Damage, Health, Mana, Armor Pen, etc... And most of those equipment cards give you a bonus once fully upgraded. Like the Adamant Edge is +15.2 Physical Damage when fully upgraded.

    It is kind of convoluted, and the interface for deck building and upgrading in game is pretty crappy. But looking at some old screenshots it seems like they're trying to improve it. Cards have other restrictions that aren't immediately obvious. You have to buy card packs with in game currency points (think I read these aren't going to be RMT, so it isn't supposed to be p2w for them). It isn't a bad system, it just needs a lot of work to be more user friendly while offering flexibility. It feels more like LoL's item shop than something like DotA. Not saying it is a bad thing just a kind of reference.

    The Harvesters are kind of an interesting concept. There are 7 on the map and not locked to any team. Four open at 3 minutes, Two at 6 minutes, and the final one at 9 minutes. So at 3 min your jungle or support can go plant a harvester on your side. It will start "harvesting" currency until it gets full. At an time a team member can run through and extract the currency. The trick is that anything harvested applies to the whole team, so it is global $$$. Getting them planted and making sure you're tapping them really increases the efficiency of the team. Of course, the other team can invade your jungle and destroy / take over your harvester spot. So you still have to pay attention and defend them. Can't be totally passive if the toher team is good.

    Since there are no couriers or anything for upgrading items you kind of do your Recall cycle like in LoL. But what you can do is, if a harvester is planted, drop back in lane then hit the harvester, then recall.

    Another thing is that creeps / minions combined with the absolutely paper thin towers and inhibitors make laning kind of crazy. Towers and inhibs have like 5hp and if you ignore a lane that has a little bit of an imbalance in creep equilibrium, or that even one person from the other team is pushing, you can lose two towers real quick. On one hand it really forces rotations and fights to occur. But on the other even though you have a 'Sprint' ability to move between lanes, it kind of sucks man. That's what I was complaining about earlier where everyone just wants to run around and team deathmatch. The meta and game sense hasn't really evolved to get the laning stage figured out. People just want to rotate, rotate. Just tonight I decided that a real good strategy may be to grab an early jungle camp, rotate 3 people mid / right / left immediately, and push the tower. You could get the T1 in like 3 minutes and there's nothing the other team could do about it. Shit just pushes sooo fast with any sort of coordination and there isn't enough mobility for team members to respond if they're out of position.

    Anyways, I'm just rambling b/c it was a long night and pretty much only played this. So was thinking about a lot of crap. I'm tired.
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    While it has alot of upsides the two major complaints from me are

    1) Tower diving = just can't do it; with out minions you get stunned and each tower shot just rapes you so much to the point you can't even go 1 hit someone. Makes it to easy to live; i love in smite being able to make clutch tower dives for people trying to huddle under the tower. They need to change this

    2) It just seems abit less skill based then you would think and unresposive. Granted this is from a Smite player's perspective but in Smite moving around you can do so much as far as juking and proper skill/executation can really turn the tables in fights. Paragon not nearly as much, its pretty much if you get jumped and can't get a sprint fired up without getting hit you are dead period (unless you have an escape). Not saying you CAN'T JUKE but its not nearly as effective and just feels really clunky and slow. I'd like to see movement speed increased more or i really think the game won't translate well to the higher skill level of play/pro's. Strategy is great and i do like alot of the components of the game but if you are going to go for the 3D full control movement vs stupid point & click shit of LOL/DOTA (YA!!!) then at least let people make plays. Don't get me wrong, i don't want a FPS type game, i favor strategy, position and card selection to be large drivers of success but i'd like to feel that juking etc has a part to play.

    Will see how it progresses, i had hoped maybe to transition to this from Smite but as of now the movement probably means i will just play casually as Smite still provides such great and diverse game play and a good pro scene to follow.

  45. #45
    #barnsohard Intrinsic's Avatar
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    I'm not sure how recently you have played (and I just started last week so have no historical context), but the new FOTM or meta or what ever you want to call it is kind of tower diving. Pick Rampage and you can kill a tower easy without a creep wave. Grux can do it also. And one person + a Muriel can. But I think that goes back to the towers and inhibs being made of paper. Plus a bit of Rampage needing an adjustment, his ult is just dumb.

    I'm with you about the movement thing though. It could certainly keep me from playing it more seriously. They tried to add some interesting juke possibilities with the shadow poolss, but it kinda doesn't work. Also body blocking is stupid easy. Character collision boxes are huge so if you get jumped by two people and don't have a mobility spell it is pretty much RIP regardless.
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    I meant single man tower dives to kill someone as a non tank. Its just not possible unless they changed it in the last few days or i didnt pay attention.

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    #barnsohard Intrinsic's Avatar
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    Ooohhh yeah, unless you are Rampage that probably isn't gonna happen right now.
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  48. #48
    I WILL BE YOUR DOOM Utnayan's Avatar
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    So, this or Smite?

  49. #49
    #barnsohard Intrinsic's Avatar
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    Turbo has experience in both. I only played Paragon so could only compare it to something like Dota or LoL. Unfortunately haven't played this in the past month at all so no sure what has been patched / changed since the start of April.
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    The big patch in April was increasing speed.

    Personally I feel like Paragon has more potential but it's still young and the hero selection is limited because of that. Both are very good games. Smite has the additional game modes above and beyond the normal moba style which puts it over the top to me right now. After playing it i don't think I would drop money on Paragon. I would wait the 2 months or whatever it is until release and just play it at release.

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    Registered User Kanglor's Avatar
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    I haven't played Smite since the month it launched, so can't really compare it, but agree with Arcaus about Paragon having potential from the bit I've played of it. Even with it being fully playable it's still pretty raw in spots, match making being a big one, ie imbalanced skill levels, terrible hero comps, etc. From what I understand they are also discussing possible changes on how shared XP and Card XP works, because at the moment laning feels very lackluster. They've got a solid base, I really like the map, but unless you are really interested in getting in early for $20 I'd say hold off as well.

  52. #52
    Dinduer of Nuffins Nirgon's Avatar
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    splurged and got the master founder's pack

    this game is really fun and the graphics are amazing

    Rampage seems a little OP


    Gonna work on Sevarog and Grim.exe tonight if anyone wants to play
    Last edited by Nirgon; 06-02-2016 at 02:33 PM.
    DoTA 2 / Dark Souls 3 / Lurking P99 / D3 Profile

    Waiting for Shadow Bane Emu to finish

  53. #53
    Dinduer of Nuffins Nirgon's Avatar
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    Double xp weekend.

  54. #54
    Registered User Hatorade's Avatar
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    This is free now with playstation plus(Starter pack) tried a couple games as the Mercy looking dude that can add shields and it is ok but was annoyed no one on my team was using the harvesters I built. That said the other team didn't use theirs either and stomped us so no idea how much of a difference they make.

  55. #55
    Registered Hoser Quaid's Avatar
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    Smite blows this out of the water on PS4.

    Gameplay is sluggish. Abilities are boring and lack impactful feedback. UI is an abomination. Aiming is a chore.

    Map is interesting and the graphics are pretty though.
    Last edited by Quaid; 07-07-2016 at 01:58 PM.

  56. #56
    Dinduer of Nuffins Nirgon's Avatar
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    Ya its in early development and needs more chars, maybe a couple maps.

    I think its really good but maybe I'm weird. The grind for a rank 10 char is immense but it probably should be.

    Friends keep pulling me to other games but I'm glad I supported this. Their devs actually listen and respond a lot on their boards (not sure they should get this heavily invested with the "never pleaseds").


    As far as the boring ability thing at first it seemed simple then I was blocking skill shots with grim's shield, lobbing extremely long range knock backs leading to kills and team praise, conserving mana by toggling his snare and playing the current dance in and out of combat with travel mode game which was actually rather engaging and fun.

    It needs more how to guides from pros and a bigger community highlighting team comps and strats for sure. The free weekends are a good draw but i think this one is going to depend on word of mouth and how fast they can crank out more high quality champs and making more interesting cards and combos for build outs... which I trust Epic to do. Having this game find itself at major gaming tournaments when it is ready sure might help too. Pace is another thing they are constantly keeping an eye on and juggling.

  57. #57
    #barnsohard Intrinsic's Avatar
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    Damn my last match was April 5th. Maybe this weekend I'll put some more time in. My Muriel was pretty beast. Haven't even kept up with any patch notes or additions.
    Pussy bitch Draegan sold us out to MMORPG.com

    Exodus underway to Rererolled - A Gaming Community

    Oh and sorta fuck Tuco too.

  58. #58
    Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quaid View Post
    Smite blows this out of the water on PS4.

    Gameplay is sluggish. Abilities are boring and lack impactful feedback. UI is an abomination. Aiming is a chore.

    Map is interesting and the graphics are pretty though.
    I really had hope this might be a transition from Smite which is my primary source of gaming at the moment but I just can't get into it after playing Smite. As mentioned, just really damn sluggish compared to Smite (granted i'm comparing PC versions). Seems there is such less capability to manuavuer. I can't handle point and click shit like LOL but this is a step back from maneuverability allowed in Smite . I'm not an FPS fan at all so i think i'm stuck with Smite being about the perfect speed for this cat.

  59. #59
    I WILL BE YOUR DOOM Utnayan's Avatar
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    I played this after downloading... Only played two games so far, solo vs AI. On PS4. I am playing Gideon. I am having a blast but that may change when I switch to full on PvP. We should get a team going.

  60. #60
    Poor Communication Skills bixxby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quaid View Post
    Smite blows this out of the water on PS4.

    Gameplay is sluggish. Abilities are boring and lack impactful feedback. UI is an abomination. Aiming is a chore.

    Map is interesting and the graphics are pretty though.
    Same. Game was an instant turn off for me.
    Battle.net:Bixxby#1897 | Steam: Bixxby | Destiny / PS4: BixxbyZzz

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