This thread is going to be like a bat-signal for some people, but instead of a bat in the night sky it's going to be a giant letter "N"
So I was having a discussion with a friend on Facebook this morning about this topic. It all started when he posted this picture.
Reading this bothered me a bit so I responded with this and this was the brief discussion we had.
Me: Serious question; Hypothetically, if said black kid in said situation were a white kid instead and died, would it still be considered racism?
Him: Not in my opinion.
Me: Isn't that in itself, racism?
Him: Nope, and here's why, I've learned that one of the biggest reasons conversations like this end badly, or why people can't seem to get on the same page is that people are working off of different definitions of what racism actually is. Some people see racism as one race vs another, black person doesn't like white people that's racism. Other people see racism as a systematic oppression of a minority group. The former is certainly a person with a bigoted opinion, while I see the latter as racism.
Me: But isn't the root or racism is the lack of equality between races? If you take one situation, play the scenario twice with two different races and react one one to one and the opposite to the other, isn't that the very definition of racism?
Him: I very much disagree.
Me: "Racism consists of ideologies and practices that seek to justify, or cause, the unequal distribution of privileges, rights, or goods amongst, or otherwise exhibit hatred or prejudice towards, different racial groups." - I don't get how you disagree when it's the very definition of it.
Him: I can't explain it any different so there isn't anything for me to say other than to repeat myself.
I didn't respond again after that. The majority of this guys posts are about racism and I felt like I was making a decent point. Now keep in mind I'm not saying we should have tried to justify anyone's death, I was just using the scenario and example given to me as that was what started everything off.
How do you define racism? On that same token, what are the best ways we can combat it? What ways have you encountered it or been a target of it? Also, was I onto something here at all or am, I wrong? I'm wrong a lot so it wouldn't surprise me.
I don't think either of you are wrong, but I agree with him that the "systematic oppression of a minority group" side of it is the important part in modern day racial tension. Your argument, at least to me, is more along the lines of "yeah, but technically..." You aren't wrong. Technically, reverse the situation and it's still the very definition of racism, but that doesn't have much to do with the social movement this guy is backing.
That's how I see it at least.
I guess I don't have an answer to a better way to do things either, just something that struck me this morning and thought I'd discuss it.
Fuck off Tarrant.
Basically, isn't that guy just a sjw?
I work in a 95%+ black work place, in a federal agency, and have a racism discussion at least once a week. It goes the other way a lot, but you don't have the white guilt and feels to ride to head lines.
The real interesting dynamics are within black culture, not the dynamics from the culture to the other cultures. That shit had been beaten to death and everyone that wants to be informed on it is.
Basically, you should find higher caliber friends. That guy is a clown, and you should harass him until he de friends you.
This has been covered a million times in the oft-hated GamerGate thread. Far left SJW-types have tried to redefine racism as prejudice + power. This allows them to be as racist as they like to whites or other majority groups that they deem to be in power. It's pointless to directly engage these types of morons.
Yes but that is outside the grown up thread hugbox Soygen.
There's a couple of different ways to see racism.
1> All races are inherently equal, treating races differently in any way is racism, and racism is fundamentally evil.
1a> But only prejudice + power = racism, if you lack social power you can't be racist.
2> All races are inherently equal and most of what we see as racial differences are cultural differences, and treating people differently based on race is stupidity in general
3> Races are not inherently equal, treating different races differently is ok
Thats basically the positions, everyone falls into one of them, and only 3 is really wrong, but 1a just makes you an sjw homo.
OK here's a serious answer: racism is when you're shitty to another person because they're not like you.
Anything else and you're over complicating things just for the sake of putting a label on someone's motivations.
Usually when someone resorts to "I can't explain it any other way" it's a yellow flag. They probably don't understand, or have not fully examined, the opinion that they hold.
In his case specifically he's talking about systemic institutional racism. And his solution is more systemic institutional racism. No wonder he can't explain it any other way. If he said what he actually meant (and it sounds like he realizes what he means) he might just realize how dumb it is. Sometimes it takes saying it out loud.
I'm also locking this thread if hodj posts more than 200 words in it. If he hits his limit in 3 or less posts he gets shawed for a week.
I'm also not counting words so I'll be going on feels data.
He's one of those "I'm only intolerant of intolerance" fags.
Every last one of those is a liar.
I think the issue is when you really dislike a certain sector of the race's culture but then you try and blanket that over everyone. Such as if you dislike the Ferguson race riots. Since 99% (possibly 100%) of the people participating were black you try and act like all black people are Ferguson race rioters. Which they are not. It is fine and dandy to be upset with that individual sector but to then try and broadcast that hatred wider is where the issue comes. Such as I also hate Northern whites who fly the confederate flag and are overall just ignorant, uneducated people. Well I'm a Northern white as well. But never would I broadcast that everyone in Ohio is an ignorant bigot simply because a small sector is.
Yeah, I guess that's north. I thought you were talking about New England and I did a massive wtf.
Them upstate rednecks flying the colors. Fight the man, man!
I like that racism and civil is in the title. Like as in civil rights? Get it?
oderint dum metuant
Shit, we have rednecks in Oregon too, you just need to head out to the eastern part where there is nothing to do but smoke meth and hate blacks.
I view racism like Draegan, anytime you are against someone just cause they are a different pigment than you are.
That picture could literally be talking about the Mike Brown thread from last year.
Same for the top investment firms with the top MBA grads...
These guys are genetically blessed with intelligence. If you lack it, gtfo.
Although I think I agree they should have to look at your actual accomplishments and not your genes since a lot of people are smart or stupid despite their genetics...
Eh, genetics and work ethic. Some people are naturally brilliant but mostly everyone I graduated high school with that got good SAT/ACT were also the ones who worked the hardest at school. Very few were just naturally gifted. Its almost like playing a musical instrument. Sure there is a certain level of natural talent there but the good players have also put in thousands of hours at it as well. So you need a combination of both but probably most lies in the work ethic side.
The problem with people who think racism is only when you have predjudice + power is that they then try to claim that proves only whites can be racist. As if a black person can't have any power.
Racism is only still alive because of the race baiters who make a living crying about it. I believe once that generation dies off, we'll be good. By and large most people in my parents generation were racist. Most people in my generation are not, and it's getting even rarer in our kids' generation. I mean look at the fact that urban youth apparently think the n word just refers to a man. I didn't realize that until precious told us in the trayvon trial, but since then I've been seeing it more and more. Kids today are ready to let go of racism if the old fucks would just let them.
The more I think about it, the more I realize that I don't hate people over race...but over their lifestyle choices. Or their socioeconomic standing and outlook. I've cut off dozens of friends because of these reasons. White and black.
My little crew of friends consists of a couple white guys and a couple black guys. We crack remarks about anyone regardless of race. It's usually about stupidity, and laziness really. And of course the occasional PWT or dumb ass Nig Nog doing PWT shit or Nig Nog shit. Some racist shit being said? Yup, a lotta times. But over the decades we just don't give a fuck to the point some of the shit we say to each other has people in shock.
We are in Microcenter, and my boy who is white puts a big ol bag of M&M's and a soda up to the register for me to pay for along with my cables. I look at him and say "Nigga you owe me 10 bucks from that hot dog joint" or some shit like that. The people in line and the cashier were totally aghast! My boy chuckles because he knew I had offended people without caring or thinking about it. Nor was HE offended.
My son has no racism in him. Nor do his friends. So soon this racism shit will fade away I am sure.
I'm afraid if the white guy had said the same thing, they'd have come unglued.
For the record, I feel exactly as you, Brahma. I only discriminate against dumb fucks. Stupidity doesn't have a color.
Edit: And for those who still don't know, there's been some confusion, I'm white. My avatar is Joe Delaney.
Gravy I always assumed you were black. My life is a lie
Gravy is actually Sausage Gravy?! We need a name change Amod.
Khane and Gravy are our resident "White Guys With Black Avatars So Everyone Thought They Were Black" dudes.
Black from the waste down. Blame Tuco for my avatar.
I'm white, with a black avatar and everyone thinks I'm Asian(from the waist down?).
Everything else I think of as racial prejudice. Which is a bad thing and causes inequalities and injustices, but its not the same as "racism" to me. Its just profiling and disparities in treatment.
Maybe I'm too hopeful but I feel like both are fading away with generations, but the racism is disappearing much faster than the prejudice. Prejudices can be fueled by cultural and social forces and are therefore much harder to break down as they are an intrinsic part of the world around us. The idea that blacks (or anyone) are inherently inferior is simply dying off with generations IMO, to the point that most people's kids would probably find the concept to be unthinkably absurd.
I'm also not Ed Reed. I don't know if that needed to be said?
See, you're all a bunch of damned racists. Just because a guy loves BBQ and funk he's gotta be black?
I never denied or confirmed when people said I was black, simply for the fact that it didn't matter, and it was a fun ruse.
Khane bro and I had black avatars before it was cool. Brahma's is still the most badass, though.
Edit: And at least one guy from the board knew I was white, because we met up when he was in town to have some feasting, and he was looking for a black guy, too.
Last edited by Gravy; 09-28-2015 at 05:29 PM.
I knew Gravy was white, but only because this exact discussion has happened here before.
Well, we were black Irish. I'm feeling repressed all over again. I might be triggered or something. Rape.
Don't see how khane's or gravy's race has ever been important enough for me to think about it. But since this is a gaming forum, it's safe to play the odds and assume everyone is a white male virgin until told otherwise.
For me an example of racism, or at the very least hypocrisy, are all the people who don't care that Ted Cruz was born in a foreign country, to a foreign father, and at the same time don't apply that same standard to Obama.
Obama was born in a foreign country, to a foreign father, same shit as Cruz, and no one fucking cares about Cruz, in fact his tea party supporters are probably birthers themselves.
I am triggered by Brahma talking about racism, saying nigga in a public store "and not meaning anything by it" and then having a Tookie Williams avatar. Head might asplode
I'm also aware of the irony of having Tookie Williams as my avatar.
I think a lot of people are conflating prejudice with racism. I am going to pre-judge a black ghetto rat the same way I am going to do it to a white trash hillbilly red neck. Its not racism, its looking at the available information and playing the odds. Its certainly be possible to be prejudiced based on race, i.e. I want to have an Asian doctor and a Jewish accountant. And not all prejudice is inherently wrong, but really just a starting point for forming an opinion about someone in the absence of other information. If I see a middle eastern woman in a burka, I am going to make certain basic assumptions and modify my behavior to avoid offending this person and causing a bunch of issues. As I learn more about a person, that base template becomes modified.
This "treat everyone the same" stuff is basically victim culture. They are waiting for a reason to complain and its not even usually the aggrieved party but some concern troll SJW type looking to be offended on someone else's behalf. As a fat white nerd, people initially treat me a certain way based on past experiences they have with other fat white nerds. I am fine with that and its up to me if I want to demonstrate that I need to be treated differently than that. Same as when I see someone in a turtle neck with emo glasses and a starbucks coffee in their hand, I immediately identify that person as a hipster douchebag that I should avoid. Prejudice (the non racist/sexist kind) serves a valuable role in keeping a civil society.
Tribalism, actual hate of people simply because they are different (of which Racism is the most obvious form), has no value and needs to be quashed.
668 The Neighbor of the Beast.
Originally Posted by Erronious
During the whole WWJD thing I submitted a T-shirt to T-Shirt Hell - Funny t-shirts, Crazy t-shirts, Cool t-shirts, Funny shirts, Cool shirts, Crazy shirts! that was WWTD - What Wold Tookie Do and a picture of him with a gun or on the electric chair, I forget.
They did not use the idea for a shirt. I was disappointed.
oderint dum metuant
@OP, yes Tarrant, you're right. These people, we often call them SJWs, have redefined racism within their cult, and practice selective acceptance of racial bias against the majority culture (whites in general, men specifically). They have no basis beyond their echo chamber for their redefinition of racism. They just cite one another and fill all discussions with feelsdata rather than facts. Individuals of the same ideology have even edited wikipedia several times to adjust it to their concept of reality 1984 style, and the position of the wiki operators has slowly grown resistant to their antics.
Definitely thought Soy was Asian.
Edit: Because of Soy sauce or something equally as horrible, I'm sure.
I mean...I am good at math. Is that racist?
Good lord am i only professed non-whitey on here? Where my pplz who can get a tan and not burn in the sun like a lobster at? It'd also be nice to see who the Arabs or Muslims are, the majority of my negs come from the Islam thread, or maybe that's just from the cray cray SJW's.
Last edited by lanx; 09-28-2015 at 06:36 PM.
Get out of here non whitey this thread is for whites only
Soygen, or Soyjen as I like to call her is a 40 year old morbidly obese short asian woman. She will suck your dick for $0.30 a load.
Black people are surprisingly distinct on the phone..I've never talked to a black woman on the phone that didn't let out a big mmmmmhmmmmm and make me feel like a piece of shit. No racist-o
My good friend, who is Chinese, has Jimmy for his white-man name. Not James, but Jimmy.
Char Lee. Crever.
I think I might be the least racist person on these boards. You're all just 17 year old korean girls to me.
I knew Gravy was white. Have people not seen the women he goes goofy over?
Originally Posted by Noodleface
No. What thread is he going goofy over women in?
I definitely do have a non-preference as far as women go, though. And it's probably racist? I don't think it is, but on the whole I find women from India and regions close-by not as attractive as other races. Is my dick racist? I'll have to spank that little fucker.
Also how the fuck am I gonna say I have a black friend now to prove I'm not racist.
Originally Posted by Noodleface
Go to a Republican town hall. The non tea baggers stock ma token Bryant Gumble type for that exact purpose. Not even joking.
668 The Neighbor of the Beast.
Originally Posted by Erronious
Every kid has a ton of competing influences on them: parents/grandparents/friends/religion/school/sports/bullies/teachers/heroes/movies/superheroes/etc. It's kind of bullshit to say that people who have the option to choose to be different are 'just the way they are lol' IE how all the SJWs say non-white, non-male, non-christians are excused from everything because 'lol racism' or whatever.
TL;DR: It's ok to claim 'cultural' differences in a place like those islands near New Zealand where they still don't realize what WW2 was about and they call everything 'cargo', but I don't think you can just 'blame culture' on the misdeeds or choices of anyone who has internet access at this point.
A racism thread in the grown up forum? What could go wrong!
One day I hope to be as attractive and well spoken as Tuco!
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