No. Shittiness of Islamic society aside, that entire area is pretty ripe for completely disintegrating with the current state of events.
Been offered a job in Dubai that pays $20k more a year than I'm making right now, plus they are providing housing (though it probably sucks). I don't think there are taxes taken out either. I've always wanted to visit Dubai, I find the area exciting. Kind of like the wild west, a little untamed, new and fresh. The only problem is, the job I would be doing, I would most likely either dislike or possibly hate it.
Also just broke up with a long time girlfriend and this would give me some much needed separation. (Still hung up on her)
No. Shittiness of Islamic society aside, that entire area is pretty ripe for completely disintegrating with the current state of events.
I think OP would have a hard time fitting into the culture there. As in, dangerous to his life hard time.
Yeah, they crucify people who think the Star Wars prequels are good.
Is it short term or a permanent job? If permanent and you've never been there to experience it, I wouldn't do it for an extra 20k.
I'd go there for a short-term contract. 3 or 6 months maybe. Definitely wouldn't live there anywhere close to permanently. Living under Islamic law would suck hard.
20k would not be enough. 50k maybe.
Calling me a Cunt is a lot like calling Hitler a Nazi, it's not exactly received as the insult you were intending.
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If it's compound housing and they give you a car/driver, then maybe. Otherwise I'd want more than 20k.
It's apparently an okay place to be an American. They give you more slack than you think if you're reasonable and don't flaunt it. I know a guy there who works as a sports reporter and he seems to like it a lot.
If the porn isn't high res you can't get horny, but you can hate a guy at 1000 paces without a scope. That's human nature.
If I were you, I would probably spend a few days praying to Deeprak Chopra and seeing if quantum mechanics gives you an answer.
3-6 months as an American. Sure. By the time they've decided to kidnap you and behead you for aposty/heresy/not being sandy enough then you're leaving.
More than that? Fuck nah. I would not invest a year. If I was going to do a year in the middle east, I'd do it in Israel. Who the hell knows if Dubai will even exist next year.
You are single. You will be in a place with no alcohol and where you cant fuck anything. Plus its fucking hot. Plus muslims. 20k is not worth it.
Know several people that have worked in the middle east in the petro chemical industry. No way would they have gone for $20k more. I'm pretty sure the money they get is a pretty good multiple of their regular pay in the states. They had the bonus of being in an almost 100% community that provided schools for kids and lots of other American type stuff. Just $20k and have to blend in with the locals...no thanks.
It would be for one year, renewable if I wanted. I could also leave at any time if I absolutely couldn't stand it.
I'd get a picture/floor plan/layout of the area they were putting me up in first. As long as it looked reasonable and not like a Columbian drug shack village, I'd take the 20k extra and go on the adventure.
Like you said, can leave at any time if the shit goes bad.
I'm pretty sure Dubai is about the only place I would be willing to go over there to work. To my knowledge they want infidels over there as they are trying to create a tourist mecca of sorts (they built all of that crazy expensive shit over there and are known for bringing in experts from around the world to train/teach/whatever). You also have the added perk from being a short flight away from almost anywhere awesome in Europe. If I was single I would give it a shot.
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Not worth it for 20K unless your cost of living goes way down simultaneously. At least at the "surface", it's westernized simply so they can attract businessmen. Businessmen would not be interested in places that don't serve alcohol and have women wearing burqas everywhere, so Dubai is Allah's exception for the sake of the almighty dollar. That being said, I wouldn't want to live there, so the money would have to be really good.
On the upside though, it's perfectly legal to enslave and beat your Bangladeshi maid, accusations of rape against you will just get the accuser thrown in jail, and there are no SJW's or blue hairs around since they're busy prioritizing things like gamergate over muslim child rape, so there are positives..
Depends a little bit on how much you make now. 20k extra if you're making 40k now is a lot different than if you're already making 150k.
Starting in high school, my passion was geared towards teaching music, so that's what I built everything towards. I worked with other peoples bands and ensembles while I got my degrees and I loved it. Couldn't wait to graduate and have my own group. When I finally got it I saw all the other bullshit that goes on behind the scenes with working for a school and the other things included in the work day, and it killed it for me. So here I am, 35, and wanting out of what I spent 20 years building, but I have yet to find a suitable alternative, so I'm sticking to what I'm good at while using the opportunity to travel.
Last edited by The Edge; 05-22-2015 at 09:04 PM.
20k would seem like you could -pick up a part time job for year if you needed $20k. Seems really low to move to another country regardless of one that may or may not be hostile to the west in some aspects.
Well travel is covered. My current lease for my car and apartment are both up in 2 months so the timing is right. I would just put my stuff like electronics in storage while I was gone. Working a separate job just for more income doesn't seem appealing in the least. I value my free time more than what money could do.
Yeah it is only 75k, but add in all the living expenses they are paying too. If they are paying your rent, food, etc then it adds up quick.
But no way, not for 75k. I have to believe you can get more out of them and they are lowballing you. If it is something you want to do, try coming back to them with a better number.
Yeah, you should see if you can get 100k or something. Never know, they might give it to you. Also if you can really just bail if it sucks, try it for a few months just to see.
I would definetly scope out how much cost and a pain in the ass to leave if you decide you hate it.
The absolute only reason to travel to Dubai to live and work is if you are a petroleum chemical engineer, and the pay you would receive in five years time would warrant retiring once you came home.
Otherwise fuck that shit with someone else's dick on a ten foot pole.
Take it, 100% sure. Spend as much money and vacation time as possible taking relatively cheap trips to different places in the middle east.
My dad did something similar in Cairo in the early 90s and it was a hugely positive move for him, and that was with a whole family.
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This is a no-brainer to me. It's 20K extra, plus living costs, so add another 10K, plus experience that sticks out on a resume, plus life experience, plus the ability to back out, plus making a living with a music degree. I have been involved in teaching music for years, mostly at the university and grad school level, and opportunities like these are golden.
Plus, you might gain some insight into Muslim culture that you can bring back to the States. Could be beneficial to all.
Truth be told if I had nothing holding me down I'd do it for the same pay
Do it. Be an old man with stories to tell someday.
Yeah, as others have said just go for it. It would definately be a different experience that might even allow you some time to reflect on your future.
Do it for the experience, the memories and stories, but not for the money imo.
Do you like to drink? I'd be wary of going if alcohol is a big part of your life. From what I've read you can get your party on as an ex-pat there to some degree but you open yourself up to potentially getting in hot water if you let your behavior piss off the wrong person. If that's not an issue for you then its an opportunity to do some traveling that you'll never get to do otherwise, especially on your salary. I like the idea of just banking money over there to take short trips out to Europe and shit. Will you have time off to do that in this position?
Do you have to pay taxes and stuff or is it all straight income? If they are putting you up and its not in some sweaty shitbox with a bunch of paki slave laborers then that's certainly a perk to be considered as well. Its not like its forever even if you have to do a whole year.
I've been to dubai more times than I can count. They have alcohol and hookers and everything else any modern 1st world nation has. It's NY with slightly more brown people. A long time ago someone with a brain sat down with Matt Damon's character from that shitty Syrianna movie and said "hey look, oil money is great now but you should totally invest it in infrastructure and modernization because in 100 years or less either oil isn't going to mean shit, or you're going to run out of it" and they took that shit to heart. Yes it's a major business center, yes it's super commercial and yes they build all that cool as shit architecture, manmade islands, etc to have a thriving friendly tourism that is business and western friendly. You rarely see burka's or Allah Akbar types there.
There is no reason not to go unless you are like a foxnews guy who believes that all muslims are inherently evil. They like money more than they like traditions. Really the only taboo thing is not to wear their headdresses (kufiya and other variations). Especially don't wear the red and white checkered one, which is reserved for muslims who have made the pilgrimage to mecca. Other than that they have bars full of fucking gorgeous models you can drink with every night. They aren't so super progressive with the women's rights meaning many of those models are probably also hookers there under not so voluntary circumstances, but hey, them's the breaks.
That's only dubai mind you, an hour outside the city (it's all desert) and you are in no man's land. It's still not as bad as say Bahrain or Oman, but shits still uh, kinda iffy. If you do decide to brave the wilds, go to Ferrari World that shit is a blast.
also one thing to note is, as the most progressive and modern arab nation (a title until recently was held by turkey), UAE, dubai especially, has an influx of "undesirables" from other arab/muslim nations. So don't be surprised if you see gay Pakistanis or tranny persians there. it's not super common but it's common enough.
Last edited by Sylas; 05-23-2015 at 11:24 AM.
If you get kidnapped make sure to yell "HODJ WAS RIGHT" on your beheading tape. Just keep yelling it so they can't edit it out.
I mean what are they gonna do? Behead you harder?
Keep in mind that you have to pay income tax to the US after a certain amount is made, regardless of if you live in the country or not. You might want to check that out. Yes, I'm serious, and yes, I know people who live abroad and have to pay American income tax on their already taxed income.
Also this list
The Top 20 Reasons Not to Move to Dubai (in no particular order!) | Smile O Smile
1. There is no standard address system making mail-to-the door delivery impossible.
2. The government blocks all web sites that it deems “offensive” to the “religious, moral, and cultural values” of the UAE. That’s hard to swallow for a freedom loving American, but I get it. I do not understand, however, why all VOIP access and related web sites are blocked. I guess the government also takes offense to people inexpensively contacting their families back home. You’re welcome to call using the analog service provided by the government-owned telephone monopoly, but it will cost you a whole lot more. So much so, in fact, your frequency of calls will be greatly diminished if you can afford them at all. The government says VOIP is blocked for security reasons, yet even the residents of communist China and North Korea have access to these inexpensive calls.
3. It is really hot outside. Not Florida in July hot; Hot as if you were locked in a car in Florida in July with sufficient humidity to make it feel as though you are drowning. Hot as in 120 degrees with nearly 100% humidity. Do not look to the wind for relief.
5. This country prides itself so much on its glitz and glamour that it put a picture of its 7-star hotel on the license plate. Yet, the public toilets in the king-of-bling Gold Souk district are holes in the ground with no toilet paper or soap. Hoses to rinse your nether regions, however, are provided. This results in a mass of water on the floor that you must stand in to pee. Try squatting without touching anything and keeping your pants from touching anything either. Oh yeah. It’s 120 degrees in there too.
6. This country encourages businesses to hire people from other poor countries to come here and work. They have them sign contracts that are a decade long and then take their passports. Even though taking passports is supposedly illegal, the government knows it happens and does nothing to enforce the law.
7. Things are not cheaper here. I’m sick of people saying that. I read the letters to the editor page of the paper and people say to those who complain about the cost of living rising here, “Well, it’s cheaper than your home country or you wouldn’t be here.” The only thing cheaper here is labor. Yes, you can have a maid – but a bag of washed lettuce will cost you almost $10.
8. There are traffic cameras everywhere.
12. Alcohol can only be sold in hotels and a handful of private clubs. A person must own a liquor license to consume in the privacy of their own home. To obtain a liquor license you must get signed approval from your boss, prove a certain level of salary that determines how much you are allowed to buy, and then submit several mug shots (aka passport photos) for approval. Pay the fee and the additional 30% tax on every purchase and you may drink at home.
13. Not only do you have to get your boss’s approval to obtain a liquor license, but you must also get the company’s approval to rent property, have a telephone, or get satellite TV.
If this job means you'll be posting here less or not at all, I think you should take it.
Draegan is a faggoty piece of shit who sold the forum to mmorpg.com just to spite us. Register at the new site.
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I'd go to far scarier places for less money.
I'm a fuckin' bargain.
Find some ex-pat forums and stuff in general and get a broad crosssection of first hand opinions on what you're in for. No one here yet seems to have actually done this thing. A lot of people do though, and I get the impression that its not for everyone but some people are really glad to have done it, and also that as an American in an educated position you have a good bit more leeway. Not like get away with smoking weed leeway, but more than the slave ass fucks from India and Indonesia. Worth due diligence since you're seriously considering it.
And there's that one point, you said alcohol/partying isn't an issue but I know you've expressed your interest in psychedelics before. My (admittedly limited and anecdotal) understanding is that drugs are zero fucking tolerance do-not-even-think about it. Horror stories of people getting busted for one tiny leaf found by those micro trace detection scannner things and going through a nightmare of middle east prison hell waiting for the embassy to finally get them a passport back and free. Could be exaggerated but if puffing is a big thing for you, gotta be ready to give it up.
I liked this article so much I bookmarked it, though its a number of years older now.
The dark side of Dubai - Johann Hari - Commentators - The Independent
yeah dubai is fucking terrible for unskilled labor, it's basically slavery.
If he was asking whether or not to travel to go dig ditches the answer would be hell nah.
I vote go for it, as long as you're not doing it solely for the money. If you're genuinely interested in the city/country/culture/travel opportunities, then don't pass it up. It'll be an experience you'll remember for the rest of your life. This is doubly true if you've never spent a significant amount of time outside the U.S. I spent a couple years teaching abroad and it was an amazing experience that I will never regret, and I was only making a few hundred dollars a month.
However, you shouldn't do it for such a paltry amount of money, nor should you do it because you're distraught over some chick.
Plus the evil muslims will behead you.
There's a war on in that part of the world if you haven't noticed. Wars tend to spread. Especially religious ones. Bears also tend to get angry if you poke them with a stick. Our next president is gonna get to pokin'. 20k sounds lowball. That shit is hazard pay.
Lebanon used to be the most progressive islamic state too. I'm just sayin. That shit can change quick.
I'm hearing a lot of opinions from people who have never worked in Dubai.
Typical Americans afraid to leave America.
On the one hand I value your canadian tolerance and experience.
On the other hand, evil head chopping muslims.
Mostly I'm playin.
But you have to admit the risk is higher than if you stayed home.
Edit: plus I think you could probably talk them up from 20. If it was a personal offer and not just an open opportunity someone pointed you to.
I'd be more afraid of the poppy seeds = heroin stories.
I have lived in Qatar for the last 9 years, been to Dubai a dozen times and have friends and colleagues that work there.
First off, that salary seems on the low side despite the fact you have housing included. Most people I know are fairly close to 6 figures. When I came over, I literally tripled my US salary from 2005. (I work as a contractor for the US Gov doing IT work) It's been pointed out, but despite the fact that Dubai has no income tax, you will still owe the US taxes. Any citizen living abroad gets the first ~$100k exempt from taxes under the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion. You could get additional Housing money excluded, but I do not think you qualify if it is being provided by your employer. With your current offer, you would be 100% tax free though.
There are other considerations for coming out, if not simply for the money. I know plenty of executive types that come out from London, NY, etc that get paid a mediocre salary, but they get a title on their CV (resume) that they could never get back home. There is global networking to be had and you can make some fantastic contacts and get better opportunities down the line.
The region also makes for a fantastic travel hub. You are close to both Asia and Europe. I got dive certified in the Seychelles, which was a mere 4 hour flight. Maldives = 4hrs, Nepal = 4hrs, Thailand = 6.5hrs, most of mainland Europe <7 hrs. You have many travel opportunities from the region. Very important to note, you will get A LOT more time off compared to the US. It's pretty well known that US has terrible vacation allowances. This region is much better. You not only will get that 30 days, but there are also a ton of Islamic holidays you will get off of work too. It's quite common to take 2-3 major vacations per year here.
Nightlife is absolutely fine. You stick to the big bars and clubs and can get into just as much fun and debauchery as any other international city. They key difference is there is no public intoxication ie: drinking in the streets etc. It's kept to the hotel bars, clubs, beaches, or private parties. There is a massive western expat population from all over Europe, plus Aussies, Kiwis, Canucks, and a few Americans. You will meet some absolutely beatiful and stunning women. The ever changing "Cabin Crew" girls from the local airlines are my personal favorite. Here are a couple popular nightlife spots:
Barasti Bar | Dubai Beach Bar | Live Sports | Le Meridien Mina Seyahi Beach Resort Marina
Irish Village Dubai | The only real IRISH experience in the heart of Dubai !
Cost of living is going to be your challenge. Plus side, you have accommodation provided which can actually cost thousands per month for an apartment! Gas is dirt cheap. I pay about $1.04 per gallon for 97RON fuel here in Qatar. I imagine Dubai is similar. Downsides are things like groceries. Anything western is imported and you can pay dearly for it. That nightlife can get expensive too due to the fact it is mostly inside of hotel bars. The going rate here is about $10 per beer and closer to $15+ for top shelf mix drinks. The nicer the venue, the more expensive. St Regis hotel drinks are about $20 a pop! The big weekend thing to do is the hotel brunches. You get a bunch of friends together, pay about $100-$120 per person for unlimited food and drink from ~11am-3pm. This is 5 star hotel food and champagne, beer, and a small selection of wines.
Security concerns are fucking stupid. Don't listen to the US media. I honestly feel infinitely safer here than my 6 years in London. Violence is virtually unheard of and petty crime is negligible. This basically stems from the fact that the locals are too stupidly rich in petro money to give a shit, Western Expats are quite wealthy and fill executive positions, and on the low side of the spectrum with the Asian laborers (Indian, Nepali, Sri Lankan, Philiplines, etc) they are too terrified to lose their jobs here and would never risk it. Often times they are sending money back home to support multi-generation families because there is no work back home. Again, I feel far safer in Qatar / UAE than I ever did in London or the US.
Lots of other stuff to go over, but I don't want to make this a novel. Hit me up with any other questions you might have!
While I would certainly prefer to work in Dubai over Qatar, there has been a lot of press about a big teacher hiring spree in Qatar for next semester. Might be something you would be interested in. There is Education City here in Doha that has some top universities like: Northwestern University, Georgetown, Cornell, University College London, Carnegie Mellon, HEC Paris, etc. There's dozens of K-12 as well if that is your area of expertise.
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Have a lawyer look over the employment agreement and ask a tax professional about taxes that would be owed. This is going to be determined on how long you are there and if the company is American. Either way you will have to file taxes to take advantage of any tax breaks. Also make sure you don't have to give up your passport to your employer. Once you get all the information you need then you can make a proper decsion. It's as american of a middle eastern place that you will find. They only really take advantage of poor uneducated workers. Still check with a lawyer to be safe.
Originally Posted by Noodleface
I recently watched a bio pic of someone who was a former FBI agent who was there for a while. Seems security was lax in some parts and may make you question if it isn't safe or not. Yet as an American it seemed like he was able to do whatever they wanted without consequences. Also the ability to meet a prince here and there and network it up and then the hot models who are willing to drink it up with you as long as you buck the normal standard and look like a ruggish American bad boy looked like easy work. In the end if you just decide to drive multi million dollar super cars through a skyscraper leaping one to another, it shouldn't be an issue. It sounds like a great place to live.
Also, the tax break I already laid out. US Taxes and Foreign Earned Income Exclusion has absolutely no bearing if you work for a UAE company or a US company. You need to report those earnings to the IRS, regardless of what country you are based in. It's the same ~100k deductible. The only stipulation is that you need to be outside of the USA for >330 days per year to meet the Physical Presence Test. You can become ineligible for it if you overstay in the US for too long on vacations in a single tax year.
Again: Foreign Earned Income Exclusion
Also a note about employers holding passports: This was (still is to a small extent) an issue, but really has only been prevalent in Asian laborer communities. It is now illegal for your employer to hold your passport.
Last edited by Jysin; 05-25-2015 at 05:01 AM.
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