Page 1 of 198 1231151101 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 100 of 19713

Thread: [Spoilers in Tags] Game of Thrones - Watch Autistics Debate for 12 months

  1. #1
    The King of Beers Araxen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    4,195
    Tuconots
    18

    [Spoilers in Tags] Game of Thrones - Watch Autistics Debate for 12 months

    Thread for the TV Series and spoilers are free reign here including book spoilers.

  2. #2
    Registered User Fedor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    7,164
    Tuconots
    95

  3. #3
    Registered User Fedor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    7,164
    Tuconots
    95
    the true king of westeros


  4. #4
    Don't Infract Me Bro Burnesto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Your Mom
    Posts
    2,083
    Tuconots
    7
    Stannis is not the true king Fedor!

  5. #5
    drinking alone lol spinnaker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    246
    Tuconots
    11
    I liked the troll that was HBO stressing that season 3 will debut EARLIER than last season. Only to eventually announce that it's going to be literally one day before the season 2 premier was. Well played.


  6. #6
    Connoisseur of Exotic Pictures Royal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    The Lindbergh Palace, Suite 604
    Posts
    9,024
    Tuconots
    144
    Technically it's 2 days earlier since last year was a leap year. Still, too long to wait ...

  7. #7
    Registered User Nebuchadnezzar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    388
    Tuconots
    6
    I like it where it's at. A really nice cap to the TV year after all the other HBO, Starz, Show, AMC, and FX awesome shows are mostly finished.

  8. #8
    Registered User Springbok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    3,343
    Tuconots
    11
    Hope they pick it up this season - last season disappointed me quite a bit (after how perfect s1 was - I expected the same for s2). The closer they stay to source material the better. I'm pretty OCD though - my brother (who didn't read any of the books) quite liked season 2.

  9. #9
    Μολών Λαβέ Beef Supreme's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    I'm yoked!
    Posts
    1,217
    Tuconots
    0
    Honestly, until GRRM finishes the books, it will be impossible to ascertain how well things are holding together between the books and the story. There's so much shit that needs to be covered, who knows how well/poor the show is dealing with the story other than relating it back to the individual instances themselves and theory crafting.

    They seem to be running a bit rough-shod through the source material, but I am impotent with judgement because I don't have the whole story.

    You think HBO is gonna have the balls to do the RW as written? Everyone I know who watches the show, but has not read the books FUCKING loves Robb "King in the North" Stark. They are so wrapped up in these characters, ALL of which either die or go through drastic changes they, the unsuspecting viewers but especially my GF, are going to shit bricks. "Oh, you think Jon Snow and Ygritte make a cute couple? Just wait sweetheart, just wait."

    All that said, I can't wait for some Arstan. Ser Barristan's POV chapters in ADWD are killer.

  10. #10
    Don't Infract Me Bro Burnesto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Your Mom
    Posts
    2,083
    Tuconots
    7
    I actually had it spoiled to me that Robb died before I ever got to the Red Wedding. Luckily the writing was good enough that I didn't realize where it was happening right until the wedding. You knew something bad was going to happen when only the Stark camp was getting drunk and enjoying the festivities.

  11. #11
    Irritable Jait's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    3,581
    Tuconots
    40
    I pumped my fist when Robb died.

    Fuck that guy. I'll probably do a jig when they kill him off on the show next year or whenever.

  12. #12
    Registered User Xeldar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Eating Cheetos, behind your shoulder.
    Posts
    1,352
    Tuconots
    18
    There needs a forum bet somewhere of what gets finished first: GoT season 5, or book 6.

  13. #13
    Μολών Λαβέ Beef Supreme's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    I'm yoked!
    Posts
    1,217
    Tuconots
    0
    I bet GRRM lets the show catch all the way up to the books, then makes everyone wait while he finishes 6.

  14. #14
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    87
    Tuconots
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by Beef Supreme View Post
    I bet GRRM lets the show catch all the way up to the books, then makes everyone wait while he finishes 6.
    Book 3 is spread over two seasons, I imagine 4 would be one and 5 would be two again, maybe.

    He's got 4-5 years, 6 total to write Book 6? That's about his pace.

    We'll (the TV writers) be waiting for 7, depending on how big that one is -- maybe they can release both the book and the final season(s) at the same time!

  15. #15
    Registered User Nebuchadnezzar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    388
    Tuconots
    6
    I'd say they could probably go the other way and make books 4 and 5 into one season, maybe extended to 12 or 13 episodes. No way could book 5 be two seasons...it's long, but there's not a whole lot of plot in it.

  16. #16
    Glip Glop Ao-'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    MPLS
    Posts
    5,438
    Tuconots
    20
    Wasn't the running joke that the guy who agreed to make the show did so because they thought it was the only way to get spoilers from GRRM?

    Also, I thought GRRM had said that incase something happens to him, that he gave the writers for the show info on where he was planning on taking the rest of the series.

  17. #17
    Registered User Dacianprick, King In The North's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    387
    Tuconots
    10
    Will GRRM live to finish the series?
    Attached Images Attached Images

  18. #18
    Superior Member Astr0Chuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    The ruins of Joisey
    Posts
    12,415
    Tuconots
    72
    question, why did they depict renly and knight of flowers as gay lovers on the tv show when it was never confirmed in the books?

  19. #19
    drinking alone lol spinnaker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    246
    Tuconots
    11
    Quote Originally Posted by Maester Chuk View Post
    question, why did they depict renly and knight of flowers as gay lovers on the tv show when it was never confirmed in the books?
    It was heavily implied in the books and confirmed by GRRM in interviews.

  20. #20
    Superior Member Astr0Chuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    The ruins of Joisey
    Posts
    12,415
    Tuconots
    72
    didnt renly talk about having children with his wife and didnt cersei suspect knight of flowers was fucking his sister? or was that just for renly to throw people off and because cersei is a stupid brotherfucking bitch?

  21. #21
    Don't Infract Me Bro Burnesto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Your Mom
    Posts
    2,083
    Tuconots
    7
    You're going to get something spoiled for you if you keep coming in this thread.

    Unless you finished reading the books since last time.

  22. #22
    Superior Member Astr0Chuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    The ruins of Joisey
    Posts
    12,415
    Tuconots
    72
    well renly is dead and Ser Loras is almost dead as of the end of book 4. i thought it would be safe to ask about it. im not looking at the rest of the discussion.

  23. #23
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    7
    Tuconots
    0
    "Almost dead" has never really worked for GRRM. I'm at a point where if I don't see a character die explicitly, I assume they're alive. Although I guess seeing them die explicitly hasn't been 100% either.

  24. #24
    so privileged Drinsic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    AMERICA
    Posts
    2,945
    Tuconots
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by Maester Chuk View Post
    well renly is dead and Ser Loras is almost dead as of the end of book 4. i thought it would be safe to ask about it. im not looking at the rest of the discussion.
    They were faggots. You probably think the Hound is dead, too.

  25. #25
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Vancouver, Canada
    Posts
    34
    Tuconots
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Nebuchadnezzar View Post
    I'd say they could probably go the other way and make books 4 and 5 into one season, maybe extended to 12 or 13 episodes. No way could book 5 be two seasons...it's long, but there's not a whole lot of plot in it.
    They could probably do Book 4 and 5 in three-ish total seasons without any of the splitting up by geography bullshit.

    Could the world really handle a year (possibly two?) without Tyrion?

  26. #26
    Registered User Fedor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    7,164
    Tuconots
    95

  27. #27
    Registered User Slaythe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Minneapolis, MN
    Posts
    3,169
    Tuconots
    -1
    Quote Originally Posted by Maester Chuk View Post
    question, why did they depict renly and knight of flowers as gay lovers on the tv show when it was never confirmed in the books?
    I honestly thought that this was a troll from how the post was worded. Haha.

  28. #28
    Registered User joeboo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    7,906
    Tuconots
    52
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebris View Post
    They could probably do Book 4 and 5 in three-ish total seasons without any of the splitting up by geography bullshit.

    Could the world really handle a year (possibly two?) without Tyrion?
    No, you can't have a whole season of a show missing one of its most popular characters(short of killing them off permanently). Books 4 and 5 will have to be weaved together chronologically into a season or two, with probably some large chunks completely skipped that don't feature current (books 1-3) big characters.

  29. #29
    Μολών Λαβέ Beef Supreme's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    I'm yoked!
    Posts
    1,217
    Tuconots
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Maester Chuk View Post
    question, why did they depict renly and knight of flowers as gay lovers on the tv show when it was never confirmed in the books?
    It's shit like this that make me not like the show after reading the books. They spend SO much time with the Renly-Loras "love" when it never happens in the book and is supposed to be an assumed thing.

    They could have spent the time/effort to portray the Valyrian steel swords as being these magical/legendary weapons they way GRRM writes about them in the books. That shit is super explicit about how different and amazing these things are, yet they show glosses over them as if they are just "good" weapons. Other than Sam's "It's Vahleeerieeen steeeel", the non-book viewers are unaware about how important and treasured these weapons are.

  30. #30
    Registered User Touraxus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Long Island, NY
    Posts
    116
    Tuconots
    0
    "Each of the ten episodes of the upcoming third season of HBO's "Game of Thrones" will run a few minutes longer than episodes in the first two seasons.

    Showrunners David Benioff and Dan Weiss are adapting the first half of George R.R. Martin’s massive third novel "A Storm of Swords" in his "A Song of Ice and Fire" series. This is not only a fan-favorite book, but arguably the most pivotal one in the series.

    Weiss says "There's almost another full episode's worth of extra minutes spread across the season. One of the great liberties with HBO is we're not forced to come in at a specific time. We can’t be under 50 minutes or over 60, but that gives us a lot of flexibility."

    Benioff says "A super-sized season, as befitting Storm of Swords. Last year we had a lot of 52-minute episodes. This year is a lot of 56, 57."

    The third season finale is expected to run over an hour. The new season premieres March 31st 2013."

    They might squeeze more into the season than expected from the sounds of it.
    I will flay the skin from your flesh and the flesh from your bones and scrape your bones dry. And still you will not have suffered enough

  31. #31
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Saint Louis
    Posts
    831
    Tuconots
    1
    http://insidetv.ew.com/2012/12/18/ga...nger-season-3/

    More minutes per episode, sounds good

  32. #32
    Survived 9/23/2015 Soygen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    17,136
    Tuconots
    159
    Quote Originally Posted by Beef Supreme View Post
    It's shit like this that make me not like the show after reading the books. They spend SO much time with the Renly-Loras "love" when it never happens in the book and is supposed to be an assumed thing.
    It was extremely obvious in the book. The fact is that the books are written in POV and the show is not, so clearly stuff that was implied in the books will be in-your-face on the show. It happened in the books, you just weren't there to hear all the slurping.

  33. #33
    Registered User Azrayne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Fort Kickass
    Posts
    1,472
    Tuconots
    12
    Quote Originally Posted by Soygen View Post
    It was extremely obvious in the book. The fact is that the books are written in POV and the show is not, so clearly stuff that was implied in the books will be in-your-face on the show. It happened in the books, you just weren't there to hear all the slurping.
    Pretty much every character talking about the situation made a subtle or snide comment on Renly/Loras, and GRRM even threw in some (not so) subtle meta-humor with the whole 'Rainbow Guard' thing.

    I honestly wonder if he just isn't as comfortable with the homosex as he is with writing in depth descriptions of 13 year old girls being borderline raped after a forced marriage to an older man? Wouldn't be so surprising for his generation.
    " I wonder if you are destined to be forgotten. Will your life fade in the shadow of greater beings?"

  34. #34
    Μολών Λαβέ Beef Supreme's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    I'm yoked!
    Posts
    1,217
    Tuconots
    0
    Right, the book handled it with jabs, innuendo, etc. while the show straight up made shit up (with Margerie Tyrell and the Loras shave bit the most egregious of the additions). They had no story-worthy impetus to add this shit in when it could have been done rote from the book. It takes away from characters and scenes that add such nuance to the story in the book.

    "Let's be sure the dumbass fucking audience understands that Renly is a fucking faggot!"

    Also, wasn't Renly described by GRRM as physcially as assuming and bromanly as Robert? Just with a little Scarlet Pimpernell?

    The point is that what the show seems to zero in on as "show worthy" material makes me question/wonder how they are going to handle the aftermath of ASOS when the story fragments and breaks into many meaningful threads. Time will only tell, but I've got a very uneasy feeling about it all.

  35. #35
    Registered User Slaythe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Minneapolis, MN
    Posts
    3,169
    Tuconots
    -1
    I really feel like the success of Spartacus caused GoT to be a little more raunchy than it would have been otherwise. The over the top Renly/Loras stuff is there because its controversial. Littlefinger continues to voice his inner monologue to apparently trusthworthy whores in the middle of DP every episode. This stuff is my biggest complaint with the show.

    That's not to say I don't enjoy some nice titties now and again. That's always available elsewhere though.

  36. #36
    Registered User Azrayne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Fort Kickass
    Posts
    1,472
    Tuconots
    12
    Quote Originally Posted by Slaythe View Post
    I really feel like the success of Spartacus caused GoT to be a little more raunchy than it would have been otherwise. The over the top Renly/Loras stuff is there because its controversial. Littlefinger continues to voice his inner monologue to apparently trusthworthy whores in the middle of DP every episode. This stuff is my biggest complaint with the show.

    That's not to say I don't enjoy some nice titties now and again. That's always available elsewhere though.
    Yeah the shit with Littlefingers and his whores really annoys me. In the books the brothels were just one of his many investments, he was a businessman, and he didn't visit and hang out in them (unless he needed a convenient place to hide someone or shit like that) any more than a franchise owner hangs out in a restaurant they own, giving grand , rambling speeches about his lives and hopes and dreams to the waiters.

    And I wouldn't mind if it had some purpose, but it's an obvious ploy so they can add titillating (heh) and controversial sexual content to the show which adds nothing to the storyline or presentation.
    " I wonder if you are destined to be forgotten. Will your life fade in the shadow of greater beings?"

  37. #37
    Superior Member Astr0Chuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    The ruins of Joisey
    Posts
    12,415
    Tuconots
    72
    almost done with book 5 and Dany is still the worst fucking character in this book. i could be reading for a few hours, then a dany chapter starts. thats when i put the book down and play video games. then when i try to read the chapter it feels like 2 hours. do i give a fuck about these mereen assholes? sound like a city/region full of scumbags. bitch wanted her throne back, raises a badass army. sacks cities. has a shitload of gold to go back to westeros with and she up and decides, nah! that can wait. i rather go hug some diseased motherfuckers that will turn on me the second my back is turned. im not sure if her character is meant as that shes going insane like aerys, is a typical stupid bitch or its just filler. i hope to god she isnt meant as filler.

  38. #38
    The guy with the gun BrutulTM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Knowlton, Montana
    Posts
    6,017
    Tuconots
    33
    This isn't the book thread but Dany is my favorite character after Tyrion and Arya.

  39. #39
    Registered User Elurin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    California
    Posts
    7,578
    Tuconots
    57
    Really? I agree with Astro, she's seriously the worst fucking character. Every time her chapters came up I was like...motherfucker. And then when other characters chapters started heading over to that shithole? Even worse.

  40. #40
    Registered User Azrayne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Fort Kickass
    Posts
    1,472
    Tuconots
    12
    She wasn't that bad when she was just exploring, it was cool to have a window into what's going on in the rest of the world, the same way Sansa's chapters give a lot of insight into the drama at court, despite being a shitty character herself. But once she settles down and tries to rule the city full of scumbags and assholes, she just gets annoying. You spend the entire time wishing she'd just take the gold and the army then burn the rest of the place into ground and hurry up moving onto Westeros.
    " I wonder if you are destined to be forgotten. Will your life fade in the shadow of greater beings?"

  41. #41
    The guy with the gun BrutulTM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Knowlton, Montana
    Posts
    6,017
    Tuconots
    33
    Sounds like you guys have a problem with how fast her story is progressing more than the character.

  42. #42
    Superior Member Astr0Chuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    The ruins of Joisey
    Posts
    12,415
    Tuconots
    72
    how fast her character is progressing? her character is fucking tedious. wah wah wah. my children are starving. wah wah wah. who will be the betrayer??? wah wah wah my children have diseases. wah wah wah. i want daario but i have to marry reznak zo fucksack to keep the peace. wah wah wah oh these tokars are so uncomfortable, but i will wear the floppy ears because my children expect me to. wahwahwah. oh my children want blood and pitfighting. its so cruel. please pass the unborn puppy kabobs please???? and now they moved the other charcters over to her. jesus christ. they should have had her city get owned by the golden company and her nephew aegon bogart those fucking dragons so they could be trained properly and be brought over to westeros to assrape the fucking freys. i hope i never have to read about anything happening in slaver's bay after this book is fnished.
    Last edited by Astr0Chuk; 12-27-2012 at 06:51 AM.

  43. #43
    Registered User Nebuchadnezzar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    388
    Tuconots
    6
    Never had a problem with Dany until book 5. She was really being built up nicely and starting to make some nice moves by book 3, and then...complete regression.

  44. #44
    Registered User Azrayne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Fort Kickass
    Posts
    1,472
    Tuconots
    12
    Quote Originally Posted by BrutulTM View Post
    Sounds like you guys have a problem with how fast her story is progressing more than the character.
    The opposite, I think most people want her to hurry the fuck up and move on to something interesting.
    " I wonder if you are destined to be forgotten. Will your life fade in the shadow of greater beings?"

  45. #45
    365 Days of Christmas ShaggaLikesAxes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    64
    Tuconots
    0
    Yeah. I always found her part of the story boring compared to everything else that was going on. She better come back and be the queen of the entire goddamn everything to make up for how slow and tedious her journey has been.

  46. #46
    Registered User Slaythe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Minneapolis, MN
    Posts
    3,169
    Tuconots
    -1
    Dany going through puberty and sitting around is definitely the worst part of the books. More Strong Belwas probably would have saved things for me. The only plus to her whole arc in adwd is that the Barristan chapters are killer.

  47. #47
    Mister Manager Eyashusa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    6,100
    Tuconots
    16
    Quote Originally Posted by Nebuchadnezzar View Post
    Never had a problem with Dany until book 5. She was really being built up nicely and starting to make some nice moves by book 3, and then...complete regression.
    Yep. Book 5 ruined Dany for me.

  48. #48
    Registered User Firewalker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    69
    Tuconots
    2
    She believes that she owes the people something if she's going to rule them, so she wants to learn how to rule before she actually takes her kingdom back. Not a bad plan actually, and a hell of a lot better plan than the current Monarchy of the 7K.

    She's probably getting quite a bit of hands on experience here. I mean yea she's fucking it all up and it's boring as shit, but she won't be making the same mistakes when she burns down Casterly Rock and sits on the iron throne, namean?

  49. #49
    Totally Ninja Sterling's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Danger Zone
    Posts
    4,803
    Tuconots
    45
    Quote Originally Posted by Firewalker View Post
    She believes that she owes the people something if she's going to rule them, so she wants to learn how to rule before she actually takes her kingdom back. Not a bad plan actually, and a hell of a lot better plan than the current Monarchy of the 7K.

    She's probably getting quite a bit of hands on experience here. I mean yea she's fucking it all up and it's boring as shit, but she won't be making the same mistakes when she burns down Casterly Rock and sits on the iron throne, namean?
    I'm not sure that's the issue people are having so much as half the chapters being about who's cock she wants.

  50. #50
    Superior Member Astr0Chuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    The ruins of Joisey
    Posts
    12,415
    Tuconots
    72
    Quote Originally Posted by Slaythe View Post
    Dany going through puberty and sitting around is definitely the worst part of the books. More Strong Belwas probably would have saved things for me. The only plus to her whole arc in adwd is that the Barristan chapters are killer.
    barristan is a badass. no problems with his POV. in fact if everything related to daenerys was barristan's pov only i wouldnt even be complaining. or at least not as much. barristan is a lot like davos.

  51. #51
    Survived 9/23/2015 Soygen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    17,136
    Tuconots
    159
    Barristan's POV was some of the better chapters in the ADWD. Dany has pretty much always sucked, in my opinion. Getting through her chapters, especially in my re-read, was laborious reading.

  52. #52
    Registered User kegkilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Portland
    Posts
    3,167
    Tuconots
    10
    Quote Originally Posted by Slaythe View Post
    I really feel like the success of Spartacus caused GoT to be a little more raunchy than it would have been otherwise. The over the top Renly/Loras stuff is there because its controversial.
    no, it's there because HBO is extremely liberal and has a raging hard on for all that homosexual type shit.
    CAUTION: THIS BOARD IS MODERATED BY ISIS SYMPATHIZERS
    Quote Originally Posted by chaos View Post
    No one is any worse than anyone else, we're all just pushing our own agendas. Even ISIS

  53. #53
    The guy with the gun BrutulTM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Knowlton, Montana
    Posts
    6,017
    Tuconots
    33
    Quote Originally Posted by Azrayne View Post
    The opposite, I think most people want her to hurry the fuck up and move on to something interesting.
    That's what I meant. I guess I should have said "the pace at which her story is progressing" instead of "how fast".

    I can understand being impatient, but if she is going to credibly invade Westeros and have a chance at taking over she has to get some experience at some point. A 15 year old riding in on a dragon and becoming a great leader just isn't credible.
    Last edited by BrutulTM; 12-27-2012 at 08:01 PM.

  54. #54
    Registered User Lithose's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    6,879
    Tuconots
    118
    Yeah, Dany chapters have always been boring--people just didn't realize it because every once in a while, one of her chapters will have an "holy shit that was fucking awesome" moment and will make you think it was worthwhile reading it. Like when her dragons were born and ended GoT with an epic final line, after feeling like shit when Ned died, it was really memorable. Or anything Drogo did. Or when Strong Belwas took a shit on that guy? You know, really fucking awesome moments that made up for the teenage angst and general uselessness of the chapters.

    The problem is, the moment she stopped and stabilized in one place, the epic culminations of her character were replaced with dry, political machinations. I know the whole book is full of these but when you have political maneuvering in the 7 kingdoms, even if the dialogue/movement is just as dry, you actually fucking care--because it strikes you that what the Lannisters are doing will Kill some Starks or just how many people Little-finger has betrayed--and you know all these characters intimately, so the consequence of all this matters. However, When Cocksos tosses on a goat's mask, and teams up with 2 people in bird masks to go kill fuckingguywe'veneverheardof it's just boring. There is absolutely no consequence for the reader EXCEPT the consequence Martin explains in a bit of exposition.

    And that's the trap he's falling into, the classic "Telling, not *showing*". When Tywin's plot to kill Rob is revealed, he doesn't NEED to explain why that's huge. We KNOW because we've seen all the happenings around those characters. But when Camel-Mask guy killed some Slave-Leader idiot, Martin needs to stop and say "And with him dead, X,Y,Z, will happen! And that will be good or bad!" A good story doesn't even need to tell you consequence, it's should be a pretty visceral, organic thing that just happens. Now a story can EXPLAIN the whole arcane plan, like Martin did with Tywin's Red Wedding, but we already knew the whole of the effects of Tywin's plan before we saw the detail of it, Martin didn't need to stop and explain why it was important for Tywin to do what he did, or how it impacted everyone.

    And that's why Dany's chapters blow. Because no one she kills matters. It's just some fucking name, that was said to be important by another person who we don't care about. The sooner she gets back to the 7 kingdoms and starts killing people there, the better.
    Last edited by Lithose; 12-27-2012 at 09:18 PM.

  55. #55
    Superior Member Astr0Chuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    The ruins of Joisey
    Posts
    12,415
    Tuconots
    72
    so i finished aDWD tonight. it ended very well, but goddamn it, i wish they could have given a little more info.
    so is Jon Snow actually dead? or is the red witch going to rez him? there seemed to be a lot of unresolved shit tied to his character to let him die like this. was Bran Stark trying to talk to him through the raven? why did his men decide to kill him instead of just voting him out? was any of that connected to Wun Wun killing Patrek? what about The Others? what about the wildlings at the wall? who would take jon's place?

  56. #56
    Registered User Lemmiwinks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    534
    Tuconots
    2
    Jon snow - If you re-read Melisandre's PoV she sees into the fire and its something like "Jon Snow had daggers around him, he was a man, then a wolf, then a man again". Pretty clear with that foreshadowing whats going to take place. If you read between the lines, it seems as WunWun or whatever his name is killing the guy was fulfilling the PTWP prophecy. Its all there:

    1. The book constantly during Jons PoVs says "The boy must die so the man can be born"
    2. Melisandres vision of Jon being a man, then a wolf, then a man again. Whenever she asks for AA she see's Jon snow.
    3. Jon is presumably a targaryen, and the woods witch earlier in the series made the prophecy of Azor Ahai being from the line of The Mad King
    4. He will wield Lightbringer at a time when cold darkness falls onto the world, this is the Others being at the wall at the current point of the book, and Jon has his Valyrian sword, fits nicely. My personal theory is Jon will be revived and Meli will realize whats up and sacrifice herself to Jon and he'll shove his sword through her heart and LB will be born.
    5. The Stars shall bleed part of the theory - Ser Patrek with his surcoat/coat of arms being the Star, gets dismembered just before Jon is killed.
    6. Jon has a dream earlier in the series where he fights the others with a flaming sword.
    7. Jon's wounds smoke when he is stabbed, while Bowen Marsh cries. Careful choice of words here from GRRM. This provides being being born of salt and smoke part of the theory.

    Theres a few other ones, but thats all I got off the top of my head. Dany is a red herring for AA, shes essentially just Aegon the Conqueror reborn with titties.

  57. #57
    Μολών Λαβέ Beef Supreme's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    I'm yoked!
    Posts
    1,217
    Tuconots
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Maester Chuk View Post
    so i finished aDWD tonight. it ended very well, but goddamn it, i wish they could have given a little more info.
    so is Jon Snow actually dead? or is the red witch going to rez him? there seemed to be a lot of unresolved shit tied to his character to let him die like this. was Bran Stark trying to talk to him through the raven? why did his men decide to kill him instead of just voting him out? was any of that connected to Wun Wun killing Patrek? what about The Others? what about the wildlings at the wall? who would take jon's place?
    Now you get to wait like the rest of us.

  58. #58
    Superior Member Astr0Chuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    The ruins of Joisey
    Posts
    12,415
    Tuconots
    72
    wow. i didnt catch all that. some of it yeah, but definitely never would have pieced it all together like that. good eye, man. i was more focused on the WTF of it all. one second hes doing his thing then the next chaos breaks out. what you said may be part of the prophecy of the return of the lightbringer, but i cant wrap my head around that his men would all turn on him so viciously like that. they didnt even try to vote him out or wait for him to leave the wall with the wildlings to save his "sister" before they retook the NW. and they barely gave us any Jaime that book. i guess brienne is going to try to kill him so she could save pod and the sellsword. but im pretty sure she has a crush on Jaime and wont go through with it. that storyline was a lot more interesting than the fucking harlequin romance book between dany and daario nohairio.
    and where the fuck have Rickon, the wildling chick and shaggydog gone? i dont even remember what direction they went.

  59. #59
    Μολών Λαβέ Beef Supreme's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    I'm yoked!
    Posts
    1,217
    Tuconots
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemmiwinks View Post
    Dany is a red herring for AA, shes essentially just Aegon the Conqueror reborn with titties.
    When is she supposed to be anything but Aegon with titties? Seeing as the OG Azor Arhai didn't ride any dragons and Aegon didn't defeat the Others/etc. I think your #4 is interesting. Didn't the heart have to be from forger's true love? Could Melisandre stab herself for Jon?

  60. #60
    Totally Ninja Sterling's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Danger Zone
    Posts
    4,803
    Tuconots
    45
    She seems like a true believer.

  61. #61
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    536
    Tuconots
    -1
    Agree with the general assessment on Daenerys here, even through book 5 I loved her; but I also found her story weaker in general until the very end... which sucks, I genuinely like the character more than any other character in a book or screen.

  62. #62
    Registered User Lemmiwinks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    534
    Tuconots
    2
    Dany is commonly thought among many readers to be AA due to birthing dragons from stone among her salty tears during the red comet - the bleeding star. Not to mention some of Aemon Targaryens last words are telling Samwell that hes certain she is the PTWP.

    Edit: And Lightbringer would be metaphorical for Dany's dragons, being born from her lover.
    Double Edit: Remember, Chuk, in Davos' PoV, he's heading to Skagos on orders from Manderly because the mute Iron Islander followed Rickon and gang and saw them off.
    Last edited by Lemmiwinks; 12-29-2012 at 05:31 AM.

  63. #63
    Superior Member Astr0Chuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    The ruins of Joisey
    Posts
    12,415
    Tuconots
    72
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemmiwinks View Post
    Dany is commonly thought among many readers to be AA due to birthing dragons from stone among her salty tears during the red comet - the bleeding star. Not to mention some of Aemon Targaryens last words are telling Samwell that hes certain she is the PTWP.

    Edit: And Lightbringer would be metaphorical for Dany's dragons, being born from her lover.
    Double Edit: Remember, Chuk, in Davos' PoV, he's heading to Skagos on orders from Manderly because the mute Iron Islander followed Rickon and gang and saw them off.
    i remember davos being worried on where he had to go, but i dont think they said specifically skagos, im probably wrong. ive been sick all week and was reading this book between coughs.

  64. #64
    Registered User Cybsled's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    4,684
    Tuconots
    27
    wow. i didnt catch all that. some of it yeah, but definitely never would have pieced it all together like that. good eye, man. i was more focused on the WTF of it all. one second hes doing his thing then the next chaos breaks out. what you said may be part of the prophecy of the return of the lightbringer, but i cant wrap my head around that his men would all turn on him so viciously like that. they didnt even try to vote him out or wait for him to leave the wall with the wildlings to save his "sister" before they retook the NW. and they barely gave us any Jaime that book. i guess brienne is going to try to kill him so she could save pod and the sellsword. but im pretty sure she has a crush on Jaime and wont go through with it. that storyline was a lot more interesting than the fucking harlequin romance book between dany and daario nohairio.
    and where the fuck have Rickon, the wildling chick and shaggydog gone? i dont even remember what direction they went.
    Rickon+Shaggydog are presumably on the Cannibal Island. There is a throw away line in the 4th book where they allude to that.

    As for killing Jon Snow, you have to look at it from an impartial perspective: While the Nights Watch was charged originally with defending vs. the Others, since the Others have been MIA for thousands of years, the Nights Watch has instead been primarily at war with the Wildlings. So your mortal enemy, which you basically have sworn to protect against, is now suddenly welcomed into the heart of your base with open arms by a noob Commander who may or may not have been compromised by his time with the Wildlings (from the Nights Watch perspective). Wunwun (a giant mind you, which is essentially a monster to the rest of Westeros) then slaughters some d-bag knight, but a citizen of the kingdoms none the less, then Jon tries to defend the giant. That was the last straw in most of the men's eyes, which is why they did what they felt they had to do. The tears were important because it shows they really didn't want to kill Jon, but they felt they had to in order to uphold their oath/preserve the Watch.

  65. #65
    Superior Member Astr0Chuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    The ruins of Joisey
    Posts
    12,415
    Tuconots
    72
    i still dont buy that even though thats likely exactly what GRRM wanted to come across as being the reason. just looked like it came out of nowhere, in these books this should have gone down, Jon sees wun wun fucking Patrek up, then orders nobody hurt him and the crows ignore jon, kill wun wun and capture/put jon under arrest and maybe he ends up dying in the struggle. the way it actually goes feels like it was a conspired plot. i dont have a problem with that, but if they had time to hatch a plan to bushwhack jon they could have called a vote to remove him. or just waited til he left for winterfell/hardhome and then just had him removed as LC.

    question for lemmiwinks. if the red witch rezzes Jon is he still bound to the Black?

  66. #66
    Registered User Merrith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    5,882
    Tuconots
    10
    Quote Originally Posted by Maester Chuk View Post
    i still dont buy that even though thats likely exactly what GRRM wanted to come across as being the reason. just looked like it came out of nowhere, in these books this should have gone down, Jon sees wun wun fucking Patrek up, then orders nobody hurt him and the crows ignore jon, kill wun wun and capture/put jon under arrest and maybe he ends up dying in the struggle. the way it actually goes feels like it was a conspired plot. i dont have a problem with that, but if they had time to hatch a plan to bushwhack jon they could have called a vote to remove him. or just waited til he left for winterfell/hardhome and then just had him removed as LC.

    question for lemmiwinks. if the red witch rezzes Jon is he still bound to the Black?
    Definitely didn't come from nowhere, throughout the last few Jon chapters, he's giving orders that his inner circle of commanders all seem to like less and less. Cyb drew a good picture of how it would affect these guys psychologically to have this young kid who was voted to lead start ordering them to do things that go completely against what they stood for over the past couple thousand years. The frustration was being shown clearly by all of them in his last few chapters.

  67. #67
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    491
    Tuconots
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Maester Chuk View Post
    i still dont buy that even though thats likely exactly what GRRM wanted to come across as being the reason. just looked like it came out of nowhere, in these books this should have gone down, Jon sees wun wun fucking Patrek up, then orders nobody hurt him and the crows ignore jon, kill wun wun and capture/put jon under arrest and maybe he ends up dying in the struggle. the way it actually goes feels like it was a conspired plot. i dont have a problem with that, but if they had time to hatch a plan to bushwhack jon they could have called a vote to remove him. or just waited til he left for winterfell/hardhome and then just had him removed as LC.

    question for lemmiwinks. if the red witch rezzes Jon is he still bound to the Black?
    No he is not bound to black due to his death as the boy, to arise the Man.

  68. #68
    Superior Member Astr0Chuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    The ruins of Joisey
    Posts
    12,415
    Tuconots
    72
    @merrith
    Jon made a very good point, there is no where in the vows that says wildlings are enemy of the Crow. And his other good point was that for every rescued wildling that is one less Other marching against them and an extra body to help kill Others. killing their Lord Commander like that has to be some sort of treason. And besides, it was pointless to kill jon now that thousands of wildlings are on the other side of the wall. The crows are gonna get buttfucked for their actions.
    Last edited by Astr0Chuk; 12-29-2012 at 08:13 PM.

  69. #69
    Registered User Merrith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    5,882
    Tuconots
    10
    Quote Originally Posted by Maester Chuk View Post
    @merrith
    Jon made a very good point, there is no where in the vows that says wildlings are enemy of the Crow. And his other good point was that for every rescued wildling that is one less Other marching against them and an extra body to help kill Others. killing their Lord Commander like that has to be some sort of treason. And besides, it was pointless to kill jon now that thousands of wildlings are on the other side of the wall. The crows are gonna get buttfucked for their actions.
    You're kind of missing that point that while I agree that Jon was making good points, it's about what the rest of his commanders think about those points. It goes against everything they have fought for over the previous couple thousand years since the Others disappeared into myth. Fear and ignorance reigned and their paranoia reached a point where they weren't thinking rationally, they just sought to eliminate the person they felt was introducing all of these new threats to the Night's Watch and the Seven Kingdoms by allying with and allowing wildlings to live south of the Wall. Jon's logic was clearly lost on them, because they had spent their whole lives hating wildlings and fighting against them. This was all very obvious in Jon's last few chapters with their reaction to (and Jon's read of their lack of agreement with his commands) Jon's orders.

  70. #70
    Superior Member Astr0Chuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    The ruins of Joisey
    Posts
    12,415
    Tuconots
    72
    well they waited way too late to kill jon. all the heavy hitter wildlings are right up the Crow's asses now. and jon was their only liaison. Tormund Giantbane is going to assfuck the first Crow that orders him around. with his big schlong it will probably buttrape 3 of them at once

    also does anyone think Stannis is really dead?i cant imagine the bravosi banker would have him charge winterfell now that he has backing to take King's Landing good and proper. and he has "arya"

  71. #71
    Registered User Lemmiwinks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    534
    Tuconots
    2
    Stannis isint thought to be dead, the letter is a ruse. Ramsay Bolton being a maniac and all. Check this out, the first Theon PoV from TWoW =D

    Spoiler: 
    The king's voice was choked with anger. "You are a worse pirate than Salladhor Saan."
    Theon Greyjoy opened his eyes. His shoulders were on fire and he could not move his hands. For half a heartbeat he feared he was back in his old cell under the Dreadfort, that the jumble of memories inside his head was no more than the residue of some fever dream. I was asleep, he realized. That, or passed out from the pain. When he tried to move, he swung from side to side, his back scraping against stone. He was hanging from a wall inside a tower, his wrists chained to a pair of rusted iron rings.
    The air reeked of burning peat. The floor was hard-packed dirt. Wooden steps spiraled up inside the walls to the roof. He saw no windows. The tower was dank, dark, and comfortless, its only furnishings a high-backed chair and a scarred table resting on three trestles. No privy was in evidence, though Theon saw a champerpot in one shadowed alcove. The only light came from the candles on the table. His feet dangled six feet off the floor.
    "My brother's debts," the king was muttering. "Joffrey's too, though that baseborn abomination was no kin to me." Theon twisted in his chains. He knew that voice. Stannis.
    Theon Greyjoy chortled. A stab of pain went up his arms, from his shoulders to his wrists. All he had done, all he had suffered, Moat Cailin and Barrowton and Winterfell, Abel and his washerwomen, Crowfood and his Umbers, the trek through the snows, all of it had only served to exchange one tormentor for another.
    "Your Grace," a second voice said softly. "Pardon, but your ink has frozen." The Braavosi, Theon knew. What was his name? Tycho... Tycho something... "Perhaps a bit of heat... ?"
    "I know a quicker way." Stannis drew his dagger. For an instant Theon thought that he meant to stab the banker. You will never get a drop of blood from that one, my lord, he might have told him. The king laid the blade of the knife against the ball of his left thumb, and slashed. "There. I will sign in mine own blood. That ought to make your masters happy."
    "If it please Your Grace, it will please the Iron Bank."
    Stannis dipped a quill in the blood welling from his thumb and scratched his name across the piece of parchment. "You will depart today. Lord Bolton may be on us soon. I will not have you caught up in the fighting."
    "That would be my preference as well." The Braavosi slipped the roll of parchment inside a wooden tube. "I hope to have the honor of calling on Your Grace again when you are seated on your Iron Throne."
    "You hope to have your gold, you mean. Save your pleasantries. It is coin I need from Braavos, not empty courtesy. Tell the guard outside I have need of Justin Massey."
    "It would be my pleasure. The Iron Bank is always glad to be of service." The banker bowed.
    As he left, another entered; a knight. The king's knights had been coming and going all night, Theon recalled dimly. This one seemed to be the king's familiar. Lean, dark-haired, hard-eyed, his face marred by pockmarks and old scars, he wore a faded surcoat embroidered with three moths. "Sire," he announced, "the maester is without. And Lord Arnolf sends word that he would be most pleased to break his fast with you."
    "The son as well?"
    "And the grandsons. Lord Wull seeks audience as well. He wants — "
    "I know what he wants." The king indicated Theon. "Him. Wull wants him dead. Flint, Norrey... all of them will want him dead. For the boys he slew. Vengeance for their precious Ned."
    "Will you oblige them?"
    "Just now, the turncloak is more use to me alive. He has knowledge we may need. Bring in this maester." The king plucked a parchment off the table and squinted over it. A letter, Theon knew. Its broken seal was black wax, hard and shiny. I know what that says, he thought, giggling.
    Stannis looked up. "The turncloak stirs."
    "Theon. My name is Theon." He had to remember his name.
    "I know your name. I know what you did."
    "I saved her." The outer wall of Winterfell was eighty feet high, but beneath the spot where he had jumped the snows had piled up to a depth of more than forty. A cold white pillow. The girl had taken the worst of it. Jeyne, her name is Jeyne, but she will never tell them. Theon had landed on top of her, and broken some of her ribs. "I saved the girl," he said. "We flew."
    Stannis snorted. "You fell. Umber saved her. If Mors Crowfood and his men had not been outside the castle, Bolton would have had the both of you back in moments."
    Crowfood. Theon remembered. An old man, huge and powerful, with a ruddy face and a shaggy white beard. He had been seated on a garron, clad in the pelt of a gigantic snow bear, its head his hood. Under it he wore a stained white leather eye patch that reminded Theon of his uncle Euron. He'd wanted to rip it off Umber's face, to make certain that underneath was only an empty socket, not a black eye shining with malice. Instead he had whimpered through his broken teeth and said, "I am — "
    " — a turncloak and a kinslayer," Crowfood had finished. "You will hold that lying tongue, or lose it."
    But Umber had looked at the girl closely, squinting down with his one good eye. "You are the younger daughter?"
    And Jeyne had nodded. "Arya. My name is Arya."
    "Arya of Winterfell, aye. When last I was inside those walls, your cook served us a steak and kidney pie. Made with ale, I think, best I ever tasted. What was his name, that cook?"
    "Gage," Jeyne said at once. "He was a good cook. He would make lemoncakes for Sansa whenever we had lemons."
    Crowfood had fingered his beard. "Dead now, I suppose. That smith of yours as well. A man who knew his steel. What was his name?"
    Jeyne had hesitated. Mikken, Theon thought. His name was Mikken. The castle blacksmith had never made any lemoncakes for Sansa, which made him far less important than the castle cook in the sweet little world she had shared with her friend Jeyne Poole. Remember, damn you. Your father was the steward, he had charge of the whole household. The smith's name was Mikken, Mikken, Mikken. I had him put to death before me!
    "Mikken," Jeyne said.
    Mors Umber had grunted. "Aye." What he might have said or done next Theon never learned, for that was when the boy ran up, clutching a spear and shouting that the portcullis on Winterfell's main gate was rising. And how Crowfood had grinned at that.
    Theon twisted in his chains, and blinked down at the king. "Crowfood found us, yes, he sent us here to you, but it was me who saved her. Ask her yourself." She would tell him. "You saved me," Jeyne had whispered, as he was carrying her through the snow. She was pale with pain, but she had brushed one hand across his cheek and smiled. "I saved Lady Arya," Theon whispered back at her. And then all at once Mors Umber's spears were all around them. "Is this my thanks?" he asked Stannis, kicking feebly against the wall. His shoulders were in agony. His own weight was tearing them from their sockets. How long had he been hanging here? Was it still night outside? The tower was windowless, he had no way to know.
    "Unchain me, and I will serve you."
    "As you served Roose Bolton and Robb Stark?" Stannis snorted. "I think not. We have a warmer end in mind for you, turncloak. But not until we're done with you."
    He means to kill me. The thought was queerly comforting. Death did not frighten Theon Greyjoy. Death would mean an end to pain. "Be done with me, then," he urged the king. "Take off my head off and stick it on a spear. I slew Lord Eddard's sons, I ought to die. But do it quick. He is coming."
    "Who is coming? Bolton?"
    "Lord Ramsay," Theon hissed. "The son, not the father. You must not let him take him. Roose... Roose is safe within the walls of Winterfell with his fat new wife. Ramsay is coming."
    "Ramsay Snow, you mean. The Bastard."
    "Never call him that!" Spittle sprayed from Theon's lips. "Ramsay Bolton, not Ramsay Snow, never Snow, never, you have to remember his name, or he will hurt you."
    "He is welcome to try. Whatever name he goes by."
    The door opened with a gust of cold black wind and a swirl of snow. The knight of the moths had returned with the maester the king had sent for, his grey robes concealed beneath a heavy bearskin pelt. Behind them came two other knights, each carrying a raven in a cage. One was the man who'd been with Asha when the banker delivered him to her, a burly man with a winged pig on his surcoat. The other was taller, broad-shouldered and brawny. The big man's breastplate was silvered steel inlaid with niello; though scratched and dinted, it still shone in the candlelight. The cloak that he wore over it was fastened with a burning heart.
    "Maester Tybald," announced the knight of the moths.
    The maester sank to his knees. He was red-haired and round-shouldered, with close-set eyes that kept flicking toward Theon hanging on the wall. "Your Grace. How may I be of service?"
    Stannis did not reply at once. He studied the man before him, his brow furrowed. "Get up." The maester rose. "You are maester at the Dreadfort. How is it you are here with us?"
    "Lord Arnolf brought me to tend to his wounded."
    "To his wounded? Or his ravens?"
    "Both, Your Grace."
    "Both." Stannis snapped the word out. "A maester's raven flies to one place, and one place only. Is that correct?"
    The maester mopped sweat from his brow with his sleeve. "N-not entirely, Your Grace. Most, yes. Some few can be taught to fly between two castles. Such birds are greatly prized. And once in a very great while, we find a raven who can learn the names of three or four or five castles, and fly to each upon command. Birds as clever as that come along only once in a hundred years."
    Stannis gestured at the black birds in the cages. "These two are not so clever, I presume."
    "No, Your Grace. Would that it were so."
    "Tell me, then. Where are these two trained to fly?"
    Maester Tybald did not answer. Theon Greyjoy kicked his feet feebly, and laughed under his breath. Caught!
    "Answer me. If we were to loose these birds, would they return to the Dreadfort?" The king leaned forward. "Or might they fly for Winterfell instead?"
    Maester Tybald pissed his robes. Theon could not see the dark stain spreading from where he hung, but the smell of piss was sharp and strong.
    "Maester Tybald has lost his tongue," Stannis observed to his knights. "Godry, how many cages did you find?"
    "Three, Your Grace," said the big knight in the silvered breastplate. "One was empty."
    "Y-your Grace, my order is sworn to serve, we... "
    "I know all about your vows. What I want to know is what was in the letter that you sent to Winterfell. Did you perchance tell Lord Bolton where to find us?"
    "S-sire." Round-shouldered Tybald drew himself up proudly.
    "The rules of my order forbid me to divulge the contents of Lord Arnolf's letters."
    "Your vows are stronger than your bladder, it would seem."
    "Your Grace must understand — "
    "Must I?" The king shrugged. "If you say so. You are a man of learning, after all. I had a maester on Dragonstone who was almost a father to me. I have great respect for your order and its vows. Ser Clayton does not share my feelings, though. He learned all he knows in the wynds of Flea Bottom. Were I to put you in his charge, he might strangle you with your own chain or scoop your eye out with a spoon."
    "Only the one, Your Grace," volunteered the balding knight, him of the winged pig. "I'd leave t'other."
    "How many eyes does a maester need to read a letter?" asked Stannis. "One should suffice, I'd think. I would not wish to leave you unable to fulfill your duties to your lord. Roose Bolton's men may well be on their way to attack us even now, however, so you must understand if I skimp on certain courtesies. I will ask you once again. What was in the message you sent to Winterfell?"
    The maester quivered. "A m-map, Your Grace."
    The king leaned back in his chair. "Get him out of here," he commanded. "Leave the ravens." A vein was throbbing in his neck. "Confine this grey wretch to one of the huts until I decide what is to be done with him."
    "It will be done," the big knight declared. The maester vanished in another blast of cold and snow. Only the knight of the three moths remained.
    Stannis glowered up at Theon where he hung. "You are not the only turncloak here, it would seem. Would that all the lords in the Seven Kingdoms had but a single neck... " He turned to his knight. "Ser Richard, whilst I am breaking fast with Lord Arnolf, you are to disarm his men and take them into custody. Most will be asleep. Do them no harm, unless they resist. It may be they did not know. Question some upon that point... but sweetly. If they had no knowledge of this treachery, they shall have the chance to prove their loyalty." He snapped a hand in dismissal. "Send in Justin Massey."
    Another knight, Theon knew, when Massey entered. This one was fair, with a neatly trimmed blond beard and thick straight hair so pale it seemed more white than gold. His tunic bore the triple spiral, an ancient sigil for an ancient House. "I was told Your Grace had need of me," he said, from one knee.
    Stannis nodded. "You will escort the Braavosi banker back to the Wall. Choose six good men and take twelve horses."
    "To ride or eat?"
    The king was not amused. "I want you gone before midday, ser. Lord Bolton could be on us any moment, and it is imperative that the banker return to Braavos. You shall accompany him across the narrow sea."
    "If there is to be a battle, my place is here with you."
    "Your place is where I say it is. I have five hundred swords as good as you, or better, but you have a pleasing manner and a glib tongue, and those will be of more use to me at Braavos then here. The Iron Bank has opened its coffers to me. You will collect their coin and hire ships and sellswords. A company of good repute, if you can find one. The Golden Company would be my first choice, if they are not already under contract. Seek for them in the Disputed Lands, if need be. But first hire as many swords as you can find in Braavos, and send them to me by way of Eastwatch. Archers as well, we need more bows."
    Ser Justin's hair had fallen down across one eye. He pushed it back and said, "The captains of the free companies will join a lord more readily than a mere knight, Your Grace. I hold neither lands nor title, why should they sell their swords to me?"
    "Go to them with both fists full of golden dragons," the king said, in an acid tone. "That should prove persuasive. Twenty thousand men should suffice. Do not return with fewer."
    "Sire, might I speak freely?"
    "So long as you speak quickly."
    "Your Grace should go to Braavos with the banker."
    "Is that your counsel? That I should flee?" The king's face darkened. "That was your counsel on the Blackwater as well, as I recall. When the battle turned against us, I let you and Horpe chivvy me back to Dragonstone like a whipped cur."
    "The day was lost, Your Grace."
    "Aye, that was what you said. 'The day is lost, sire. Fall back now, that you may fight again.' And now you would have me scamper off across the narrow sea... "
    "... to raise an army, aye. As Bittersteel did after the Battle of the Redgrass Field, where Daemon Blackfyre fell."
    "Do not prate at me of history, ser. Daemon Blackfyre was a rebel and usurper, Bittersteel a bastard. When he fled, he swore he would return to place a son of Daemon's upon the Iron Throne. He never did. Words are wind, and the wind that blows exiles across the narrow sea seldom blows them back. That boy Viserys Targaryen spoke of return as well. He slipped through my fingers at Dragonstone, only to spend his life wheedling after sellswords. 'The Beggar King,' they called him in the Free Cities. Well, I do not beg, nor will I flee again. I am Robert's heir, the rightful king of Westeros. My place is with my men. Yours is in Braavos. Go with the banker, and do as I have bid."
    "As you command," Ser Justin said.
    "It may be that we shall lose this battle," the king said grimly. "In Braavos you may hear that I am dead. It may even be true. You shall find my sellswords nonetheless."
    The knight hesitated. "Your Grace, if you are dead — "
    " — you will avenge my death, and seat my daughter on the Iron Throne. Or die in the attempt."
    Ser Justin put one hand on his sword hilt. "On my honor as a knight, you have my word."
    "Oh, and take the Stark girl with you. Deliver her to Lord Commander Snow on your way to Eastwatch." Stannis tapped the parchment that lay before him. "A true king pays his debts."
    Pay it, aye, thought Theon. Pay it with false coin. Jon Snow would see through the impostesure at once. Lord Stark's sullen bastard had known Jeyne Poole, and he had always been fond of his little half-sister Arya.
    "The black brothers will accompany you as far as Castle Black," the king went on. "The ironmen are to remain here, supposedly to fight for us. Another gift from Tycho Nestoris. Just as well, they would only slow you down. Ironmen were made for ships, not horses. Lady Arya should have a female companion as well. Take Alysane Mormont."
    Ser Justin pushed back his hair again. "And Lady Asha?"
    The king considered that a moment. "No."
    "One day Your Grace will need to take the Iron Islands. That will go much easier with Balon Greyjoy's daughter as a catspaw, with one of your own leal men as her lord husband."
    "You?" The king scowled. "The woman is wed, Justin."
    "A proxy marriage, never consummated. Easily set aside. The groom is old besides. Like to die soon."
    From a sword through his belly if you have your way, ser worm. Theon knew how these knights thought.
    Stannis pressed his lips together. "Serve me well in this matter of the sellswords, and you may have what you desire. Until such time, the woman must needs remain my captive."
    Ser Justin bowed his head. "I understand."
    That only seemed to irritate the king. "Your understanding is not required. Only your obedience. Be on your way, ser."
    This time, when the knight took his leave, the world beyond the door seemed more white than black.
    Stannis Baratheon paced the floor. The tower was a small one, dank and cramped. A few steps brought the king around to Theon. "How many men does Bolton have at Winterfell?"
    "Five thousand. Six. More." He gave the king a ghastly grin, all shattered teeth and splinters. "More than you."
    "How many of those is he like to send against us?"
    "No more than half." That was a guess, admittedly, but it felt right to him. Roose Bolton was not a man to blunder blindly out into the snow, map or no. He would hold his main strength in reserve, keep his best men with him, trust in Winterfell's massive double wall. "The castle was too crowded. Men were at each other's throats, the Manderlys and Freys especially. It's them his lordship's sent after you, the ones that he's well rid of."
    "Wyman Manderly." The king's mouth twisted in contempt. "Lord Too-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse. Too fat to come to me, yet he comes to Winterfell. Too fat to bend the knee and swear me his sword, yet now he wields that sword for Bolton. I sent my Onion Lord to treat with him, and Lord Too-Fat butchered him and mounted his head and hands on the walls of White Harbor for the Freys to gloat over. And the Freys... has the Red Wedding been forgotten?"
    "The north remembers. The Red Wedding, Lady Hornwood's fingers, the sack of Winterfell, Deepwood Motte and Torrhen's Square, they remember all of it." Bran and Rickon. They were only miller's boys. "Frey and Manderly will never combine their strengths. They will come for you, but separately. Lord Ramsay will not be far behind them. He wants his bride back. He wants his Reek." Theon's laugh was half a titter, half a whimper. "Lord Ramsay is the one Your Grace should fear."
    Stannis bristled at that. "I defeated your uncle Victarion and his Iron Fleet off Fair Isle, the first time your father crowned himself. I held Storm's End against the power of the Reach for a year, and took Dragonstone from the Targaryens. I smashed Mance Rayder at the Wall, though he had twenty times my numbers. Tell me, turncloak, what battles has the Bastard of Bolton ever won that I should fear him?"
    You must not call him that! A wave of pain washed over Theon Greyjoy. He closed his eyes and grimaced. When he opened them again, he said, "You do not know him."
    "No more than he knows me."
    "Knows me," cried one of the ravens the maester had left behind. It flapped its big black wings against the bars of its cage.
    "Knows," it cried again.
    Stannis turned. "Stop that noise."
    Behind him, the door opened. The Karstarks had arrived.
    Bent and twisted, the castellan of Karhold leaned heavily on his cane as he made his way to the table. Lord Arnolf's cloak was fine grey wool, bordered in black sable and clasped with a silver starburst. A rich garment, Theon thought, on a poor excuse for a man. He had seen that cloak before, he knew, just as he had seen the man who wore it. At the Dreadfort. I remember. He sat and supped with Lord Ramsay and Whoresbane Umber, the night they brought Reek up from his cell.
    The man beside him could only be his son. Fifty, Theon judged, with a round soft face like his father's, if Lord Arnolf went to fat. Behind him walked three younger men. The grandsons, he surmised. One wore a chainmail byrnie. The rest were dressed for breakfast, not for battle. Fools.
    "Your Grace." Arnolf Karstark bowed his head. "An honor." He looked for a seat. Instead his eyes found Theon. "And who is this?" Recognition came a heartbeat later. Lord Arnolf paled.
    His stupid son remained oblivious. "There are no chairs," the oaf observed. One of the ravens screamed inside its cage.
    "Only mine." King Stannis sat in it. "It is no Iron Throne, but here and now it suits." A dozen men had filed through the tower door, led by the knight of the moths and the big man in the silvered breastplate. "You are dead men, understand that," the king went on. "Only the manner of your dying remains to be determined. You would be well advised not to waste my time with denials. Confess, and you shall have the same swift end that the Young Wolf gave Lord Rickard. Lie, and you will burn. Choose."
    "I choose this." One of the grandsons seized his sword hilt, and made to draw it.
    That proved to be a poor choice. The grandson's blade had not even cleared his scabbard before two of the king's knights were on him. It ended with his forearm flopping in the dirt and blood spurting from his stump, and one of his brothers stumbling for the stairs, clutching a belly wound. He staggered up six steps before he fell, and came crashing back down to the floor.
    Neither Arnolf Karstark nor his son had moved.
    "Take them away," the king commanded. "The sight of them sours my stomach." Within moments, the five men had been bound and removed. The one who had lost his sword arm had fainted from loss of blood, but his brother with the belly wound screamed loud enough for both of them. "That is how I deal with betrayal, turncloak," Stannis informed Theon.
    "My name is Theon."
    "As you will. Tell me, Theon, how many men did Mors Umber have with him at Winterfell?"
    "None. No men." He grinned at his own wit. "He had boys. I saw them." Aside from a handful of half-crippled serjeants, the warriors that Crowfood had brought down from Last Hearth were hardly old enough to shave. "Their spears and axes were older than the hands that clutched them. It was Whoresbane Umber who had the men, inside the castle. I saw them too. Old men, every one." Theon tittered. "Mors took the green boys and Hother took the greybeards. All the real men went with the Greatjon and died at the Red Wedding. Is that what you wanted to know, Your Grace?"
    King Stannis ignored the jibe. "Boys," was all he said, disgusted. "Boys will not hold Lord Bolton long."
    "Not long," Theon agreed. "Not long at all."
    "Not long," cried the raven from its cage.
    The king gave the bird an irritated look. "That Braavosi banker claimed Ser Aenys Frey is dead. Did some boy do that?"
    "Twenty green boys, with spades," Theon told him. "The snow fell heavily for days. So heavily that you could not see the castle walls ten yards away, no more than the men up on the battlements could see what was happening beyond those walls. So Crowfood set his boys to digging pits outside the castle gates, then blew his horn to lure Lord Bolton out. Instead he got the Freys. The snow had covered up the pits, so they rode right into them. Aenys broke his neck, I heard, but Ser Hosteen only lost a horse, more's the pity. He will be angry now."
    Strangely, Stannis smiled. "Angry foes do not concern me. Anger makes men stupid, and Hosteen Frey was stupid to begin with, if half of what I have heard of him is true. Let him come."
    "He will."
    "Bolton has blundered," the king declared. "All he had to do was sit inside his castle whilst we starved. Instead he has sent some portion of his strength forth to give us battle. His knights will be horsed, ours must fight afoot. His men will be well nourished, ours go into battle with empty bellies. It makes no matter. Ser Stupid, Lord Too-Fat, the Bastard, let them come. We hold the ground, and that I mean to turn to our advantage."
    "The ground?" said Theon. "What ground? Here? This misbegotten tower? This wretched little village? You have no high ground here, no walls to hide beyond, no natural defenses."
    "Yet."
    "Yet," both ravens screamed in unison. Then one quorked, and the other muttered, "Tree, tree, tree."
    The door opened. Beyond, the world was white. The knight of the three moths entered, his legs caked with snow. He stomped his feet to knock it off and said, "Your Grace, the Karstarks are taken. A few of them resisted, and died for it. Most were too confused, and yielded quietly. We have herded them all into the longhall and confined them there."
    "Well done."
    "They say they did not know. The ones we've questioned."
    "They would."
    "We might question them more sharply... "
    "No. I believe them. Karstark could never have hoped to keep his treachery a secret if he shared his plans with every baseborn manjack in his service. Some drunken spearman would have let it slip one night whilst laying with a whore. They did not need to know. They are Karhold men. When the moment came they would have obeyed their lords, as they had done all their lives."
    "As you say, Sire."
    "What of your own losses?"
    "One of Lord Peasebury's men was killed, and two of mine were wounded. If it please Your Grace, though, the men are growing anxious. There are hundreds of them gathered around the tower, wondering what's happened. Talk of treason is on every lip. No one knows who to trust, or who might be arrested next. The northmen especially — "
    "I need to talk with them. Is Wull still waiting?"
    "Him and Artos Flint. Will you see them?"
    "Shortly. The kraken first."
    "As you command." The knight took his leave.
    My sister, Theon thought, my sweet sister. Though he had lost all feeling in his arms, he felt the twisting in his gut, the same as when that bloodless Braavosi banker presented him to Asha as a 'gift.' The memory still rankled. The burly, balding knight who'd been with her had wasted no time shouting for help, so they'd had no more than a few moments before Theon was dragged away to face the king. That was long enough. He had hated the look on Asha's face when she realized who he was; the shock in her eyes, the pity in her voice, the way her mouth twisted in disgust. Instead of rushing forward to embrace him, she had taken half a step backwards. "Did the Bastard do this to you?" she had asked.
    "Don't you call him that." Then the words came spilling out of Theon in a rush. He tried to tell her all of it, about Reek and the Dreadfort and Kyra and the keys, how Lord Ramsay never took anything but skin unless you begged for it. He told her how he'd saved the girl, leaping from the castle wall into the snow. "We flew. Let Abel make a song of that, we flew." Then he had to say who Abel was, and talk about the washerwomen who weren't truly washerwomen. By then Theon knew how strange and incoherent all this sounded, yet somehow the words would not stop. He was cold and sick and tired... and weak, so weak, so very weak.
    She has to understand. She is my sister. He never wanted to do any harm to Bran or Rickon. Reek made him kill those boys, not him Reek but the other one. "I am no kinslayer," he insisted. He told her how he bedded down with Ramsay's bitches, warned her that Winterfell was full of ghosts. "The swords were gone. Four, I think, or five. I don't recall. The stone kings are angry." He was shaking by then, trembling like an autumn leaf. "The heart tree knew my name. The old gods. Theon, I heard them whisper. There was no wind but the leaves were moving. Theon, they said. My name is Theon." It was good to say the name. The more he said it, the less like he was to forget. "You have to know your name," he'd told his sister. "You... you told me you were Esgred, but that was a lie. Your name is Asha."
    "It is," his sister had said, so softly that he was afraid that she might cry. Theon hated that. He hated women weeping. Jeyne Poole had wept all the way from Winterfell to here, wept until her face was purple as a beetroot and the tears had frozen on her cheeks, and all because he told her that she must be Arya, or else the wolves might send them back. "They trained you in a brothel," he reminded her, whispering in her ear so the others would not hear. "Jeyne is the next thing to a whore, you must go on being Arya." He meant no hurt to her. It was for her own good, and his. She has to remember her name. When the tip of her nose turned black from frostbite, and the one of the riders from the Night's Watch told her she might lose a piece of it, Jeyne had wept over that as well. "No one will care what Arya looks like, so long as she is heir to Winterfell," he assured her. "A hundred men will want to marry her. A thousand."
    The memory left Theon writhing in his chains. "Let me down," he pleaded. "Just for a little while, then you can hang me up again." Stannis Baratheon looked up at him, but did not answer. "Tree," a raven cried. "Tree, tree, tree."
    Then other bird said, "Theon," clear as day, as Asha came striding through the door.
    Qarl the Maid was with her, and Tristifer Botley. Theon had known Botley since they were boys together, back on Pyke. Why has she brought her pets? Does she mean to cut me free? They would end the same way as the Karstarks, if she tried.
    The king was displeased by their presence as well. "Your guards may wait without. If I meant harm to you, two men would not dissuade me."
    The ironborn bowed and retreated. Asha took a knee. "Your Grace. Must my brother be chained like that? It seems a poor reward for bringing you the Stark girl."
    The king's mouth twitched. "You have a bold tongue, my lady. Not unlike your turncloak brother."
    "Thank you, Your Grace."
    "It was not a compliment." Stannis gave Theon a long look. "The village lacks a dungeon, and I have more prisoners than I anticipated when we halted here." He waved Asha to her feet. "You may rise."
    She stood. "The Braavosi ransomed my seven of my men from Lady Glover. I would glady pay a ransom for my brother."
    "There is not enough gold on all your Iron Islands. Your brother's hands are soaked with blood. Farring is urging me to give him to R'hllor."
    "Clayton Suggs as well, I do not doubt."
    "Him, Corliss Penny, all the rest. Even Ser Richard here, who only loves the Lord of Light when it suits his purposes."
    "The red god's choir only knows a single song."
    "So long as the song is pleasing in god's ears, let them sing. Lord Bolton's men will be here sooner than we would wish. Only Mors Umber stands between us, and your brother tells me his levies are made up entirely of green boys. Men like to know their god is with them when they go to battle."
    "Not all your men worship the same god."
    "I am aware of this. I am not the fool my brother was."
    "Theon is my mother's last surviving son. When his brothers died, it shattered her. His death will crush what remains of her... but I have not come to beg you for his life."
    "Wise. I am sorry for your mother, but I do not spare the lives of turncloaks. This one, especially. He slew two sons of Eddard Stark. Every northman in my service would abandon me if I showed him any clemency. Your brother must die."
    "Then do the deed yourself, Your Grace." The chill in Asha's voice made Theon shiver in his chains. "Take him out across the lake to the islet where the weirwood grows, and strike his head off with that sorcerous sword you bear. That is how Eddard Stark would have done it. Theon slew Lord Eddard's sons. Give him to Lord Eddard's gods. The old gods of the north. Give him to the tree."
    And suddenly there came a wild thumping, as the maester's ravens hopped and flapped inside their cages, their black feathers flying as they beat against the bars with loud and raucous caws. "The tree," one squawked, "the tree, the tree," whilst the second screamed only, "Theon, Theon, Theon."
    Theon Greyjoy smiled. They know my name, he thought.

  72. #72
    Registered User Cybsled's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    4,684
    Tuconots
    27
    *Starcraft stim pack sound*

    Awww yea. Awww that's the stuff.

    Thanks for sharing that Guess we only have to wait...1...2...5 years before the book comes out ;(

  73. #73
    Registered User Merrith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    5,882
    Tuconots
    10
    More...we need more. Fuck. It was great when I was just started reading the books after I got done watching Season 2...you had so much to look forward to.

  74. #74
    Μολών Λαβέ Beef Supreme's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    I'm yoked!
    Posts
    1,217
    Tuconots
    0
    Yeah, that was great. I would pay money to see a mockumentary about the lives of people waiting for GRRM to finish this story.

  75. #75
    Registered User Lemmiwinks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    534
    Tuconots
    2
    Heres the last scoop of TWoW info I have. A Victarion chapter, that takes places 5 mins after where his last one ends. This is only a part of the chapter, the first half or so:

    tumblr_m2i7y3rI2B1qmn3zqo1_500.jpg

    Spoiler: 
    The Noble Lady was a tub of a ship, as fat and wallowing as the noble ladies of the green lands. Her holds were huge, and Victarion packed them with armed men. With her would sail the other, lesser prizes that the Iron Fleet had taken on its long voyage to Slaver's Bay, a lubberly assortment of cogs, great cogs, carracks, and trading galleys salted here and there with fishing boats. It was a fleet both fat and feeble, promising much in the way of wool and wines and other trade goods and little in the way of danger. Victarion gave the command of it to Wulf One-Ear.

    "The slavers may shiver when they spy your sails rising from the sea," he told him. "but once they see you plain they will laugh at their fears. Traders and fishers, that's all you are. Any man can see that. Let them get close as they like, but keep your men hidden belowdecks until you are ready. Then close, and board them. Free the slaves and feed the slavers to the sea, but take the ships. We will have need of every hull to carry us back home."

    "Home," Wulf grinned. "The men'll like the sound o' that, Lord Captain. The ships first – then we break these Yunkishmen. Aye."

    The Iron Victory was lashed alongside the Noble Lady, the two ships bound tight with chains and grappling hooks, a ladder stretched between them. The great cog was much larger than the warship and sat higher in the water. All along the gunwales the faces of the Ironborn peered down, watching as Victarion clapped Wulf One-Ear on the shoulder and sent him clambering up the ladder. The sea was smooth and still, the sky bright with stars. Wulf ordered the ladder drawn up, the chains cast off. The warship and the cog parted ways. In the distance the rest of Victarion's famed fleet was raising sail. A ragged cheer went up from the crew of the Iron Victory, and was answered in kind by the men of the Noble Lady.

    Victarion had given Wulf his best fighters. He envied them. They would be the first to strike a low, the first to see that look of fear in the foemen's eyes. As he stood at the prow of the Iron Victory watching One-Ear's merchant ships vanish one by one into the west, the faces of the first foes he'd ever slain came back to Victarion Greyjoy. He thought of his first ship, of his first woman. A restlessness was in him, a hunger for the dawn and the things this day would bring. Death or glory, I will drink my fill of both today. The Seastone Chair should've been his when Balon died, but his brother Euron had stolen it from him, just as he had stolen his wife many years before. He stole her and he soiled her, but he left it for me to slay her. All that was done and gone now, though. Victarion would have his due at last. I have the horn, and soon I will have the woman. A woman lovelier than the wife he made me kill.

    "Captain." The voice belonged to Longwater Pyke. "The oarsmen await your pleasure."
    Three of them, and strong ones. "Send them to my cabin. I'll want the priest as well."

    The oarsmen were all big. One was a boy, one a brute, one a bastard’s bastard. The Boy had been rowing for less than a year, the Brute for twenty. They had names, but Victarion did not know them. One had come fromLamentation, one from Sparrow Hawk, one from Spider Kiss.

    He could not be expected to know the names of every thrall who had ever pulled an oar in the Iron Fleet.

    “Show them the horn,” he commanded, when the three had been ushered into his cabin. Moqorro brought it forth, and the dusky woman lifted up a lantern to give them all a look. In the shifting lantern light the hell-horn seemed to writhe and turn in the priest’s hands like a serpent fighting to escape. Moqorro was a man of monstrous size – big-bellied, broadshouldered, towering – but even in his grasp the horn looked huge.

    “My brother found this thing on Valyria,” Victarion told the thralls. “Think how big the dragon must’ve been to bear two of these upon his head. Bigger than Vhagar or Meraxes, bigger than Balerion the Black Dread.” He took the horn from Moqorro and ran his palm along its curves.

    “At the Kingsmoot on Old Wyk one of Euron’s mutes blew upon this horn. Some of you will remember. It was not a sound that any man who heard it will ever forget.”

    “They say he died,” the Boy said, “him who blew the horn.”

    “Aye. The horn was smoking after. The mute had blisters on his lips, and the bird inked across his chest was bleeding. He died the next day. When they cut him open his lungs were black.”

    “The horn is cursed,” said the Bastard’s Bastard.

    “A dragon’s horn from Valyria,” said Victarion. “Aye, it’s cursed. I never said it wasn’t.”

    He brushed his hand across one of the red gold bands and the ancient glyph seemed to sing beneath his fingertips. For half a heartbeat he wanted nothing so much as to sound the horn himself. Euron was a fool to give me this, it is a precious thing, and powerful. With this I’ll win the Seastone Chair, and then the Iron Throne. With this I’ll win the world.

    “Claggorn blew the horn thrice and died for it. He was as big as any of you, and strong as me. So strong that he could twist a man’s head right off his shoulders with only his bare hands, and yet the horn killed him.”

    “It will kill us too, then,” said the Boy.

    Victarion did not oft forgive a thrall for talking out of turn, but the Boy was young, no more than twenty, and soon to die besides. He let it pass.

    “The mute sounded the horn three times. You three will sound it only once. Might be you’ll die, might be you won’t. All men die. The Iron Fleet is sailing into battle. Many on this very ship will be dead before the sun goes down – stabbed or slashed, gutted, drowned, burned alive – only the Gods know which of us will still be here come the morrow. Sound the horn and live and I’ll make free men of you, one or two or all three. I’ll give you wives, a bit of land, a ship to sail, thralls of your own. Men will know your names.”

    “Even you, Lord Captain?” asked the Bastard’s Bastard.

    “Aye.”

    “I’ll do it then.”

    “And me,” said the Boy.

    The Brute crossed his arms and nodded. If it made the three feel braver to believe they had a choice, let them cling to that. Victarion cared little what they believed, they were only thralls.

    “You will sail with me on Iron Victory,” he told them, “but you will not join the battle. Boy, you’re the youngest – you’ll sound the horn first. When the time comes you will blow it long and loud. They say you are strong. Blow the horn until you are too weak to stand, until the last bit of breath has been squeezed from you, until your lungs are burning. Let the freedmen hear you in Meereen, the slavers in Yunkai, the ghosts in Astapor. Let the monkeys shit themselves at the sound when it rolls across the Isle of Cedars. Then pass the horn along to the next man. Do you hear me? Do you know what to do?”

    The Boy and the Bastard’s Bastard tugged their forelocks; the Brute might’ve done the same, but he was bald.

    “You may touch the horn. Then go.”

    They left him one by one. The three thralls, and then Moqorro. Victarion would not let him take
    the hell-horn.

    “I will keep it here with me, until it is needed.”

    “As you command. Would you have me bleed you?” Victarion seized the dusky woman by the wrist and pulled her to him. “She will do it. Go pray to your red god. Light your fire, and tell me what you see.”

    Moqorro’s dark eyes seemed to shine.

    “I see dragons...”


    And heres the man himself reading it if you want.

    Last edited by Lemmiwinks; 12-30-2012 at 04:58 AM.

  76. #76
    Μολών Λαβέ Beef Supreme's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    I'm yoked!
    Posts
    1,217
    Tuconots
    0
    It's probably just me, but the Iron Islands part of ASoIaF is the weakest part of the whole thing. I just don't give a shit either way about any of the characters under the banner of the Kraken. Other than providing chaff and fodder for the protagonists, what do they provide the narrative? To me, "What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger" and "paying the iron price" are very strong maxims, yet the peoples they are attached amount to nothing but words and wind. I know that Theon, Asha, Victarion and The Damphair all will play some role in the final "doings" but I'm just not buggered to care.

    Edit: the attached pic is very awesome.

  77. #77
    Superior Member Astr0Chuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    The ruins of Joisey
    Posts
    12,415
    Tuconots
    72
    i like victarion, i mean his story really has no importance until he does something, but im hoping before he dies tragically he gets to fuck his brother over at the least. i wonder what the odds are that tyrion and the second sons get contracted by stannis or maybe he gets to sack Casterly Rock and kills Cersei in the most horrible way possible. or both!

  78. #78
    Registered User Lemmiwinks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    534
    Tuconots
    2
    I can agree to an extent about the meh feeling of the greyjoy chapters. Except for Victarions in ADWD. Hes just such a raging badass.

  79. #79
    Don't Infract Me Bro Burnesto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Your Mom
    Posts
    2,083
    Tuconots
    7
    Didn't the banker also have a message for Stannis that the Karstarks were going to betray him, since the Karstark daughter ratted them out? I could be remembering it way wrong though.

  80. #80
    Registered User Lemmiwinks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    534
    Tuconots
    2
    Im pretty sure that the Boltons will send the Manderlys against Stannis in the 1st attack, and they'll immediately defect to Stannis.

    Its comforting knowing that TWoW will start off well. Martin confirmed that they beginning will be the battle at Winterfell, and the Battle in Slavers Bay. Also, theres the idea that Jon snow will revive and fuck shit up.

    TWoW is shaping up to be another ASoS imo.

  81. #81
    Mister Manager Eyashusa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    6,100
    Tuconots
    16
    Really missing our Song of Ice and Fire book thread from FoH right about now... we had some good discussion going on there when Dance with Dragons (and earlier) was released.

  82. #82
    Registered User Moonarchia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,368
    Tuconots
    22
    I just want more Arya. So much awesome.

  83. #83
    Μολών Λαβέ Beef Supreme's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    I'm yoked!
    Posts
    1,217
    Tuconots
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Moonarchia View Post
    I just want more Arya. So much awesome.
    Agreed. But more Bran, more of his abilities and aspirations, more tree surfing.

    And ffs, more Barristan and Belwas.

  84. #84
    Registered User Lemmiwinks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    534
    Tuconots
    2
    Man, that chapter with Barristan slaying Khrazz while kidnapping Hizdahr....jizz.jpg

    "This coward is about to kill you, ser." zd;fhjzsd;flhkfxgl;hksdg';sdkhsdgsd

    Sorry. I came.

  85. #85
    Μολών Λαβέ Beef Supreme's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    I'm yoked!
    Posts
    1,217
    Tuconots
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemmiwinks View Post
    Man, that chapter with Barristan slaying Khrazz while kidnapping Hizdahr....jizz.jpg

    "This coward is about to kill you, ser." zd;fhjzsd;flhkfxgl;hksdg';sdkhsdgsd

    Sorry. I came.
    Barristan the Bold. So player.

    I also want to see more of Gerold and Edric Dayne. Does GRRM indicate where/who has Dawn?

  86. #86
    Registered User Lemmiwinks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    534
    Tuconots
    2
    Nah, nothing I've read indicates where the Sword Of Morning may be. My fanboy guess would be, knowing Ned Stark, after slaying Arthur Dayne at the Tower of Joy, probably sent the sword back to House Dayne.

    Edit: For fun and good times, the Tower of Joy scene:

    Spoiler: 
    “I looked for you on the Trident,” Ned said to them.
    “We were not there,” Ser Gerold answered.
    “Woe to the Usurper if we had been,” said Ser Oswell.
    “When King's Landing fell, Ser Jaime slew your king with a golden sword, and I wondered where you were.”
    “Far away,” Ser Gerold said, “or Aerys would yet sit the Iron Throne, and our false brother would burn in seven hells.”
    “I came down on Storm's End to lift the siege,” Ned told them, and the Lords Tyrell and Redwyne dipped their banners, and all their knights bent the knee to pledge us fealty. I was certain you would be among them.”
    “Our knees do not bend easily,” said Ser Arthur Dayne.
    “Ser Willem Darry is fled to Dragonstone, with your queen and Prince Viserys. I thought you might have sailed with him.”
    “Ser Willem is a good man and true,” said Ser Oswell.
    “But not of the Kingsguard,” Ser Gerold pointed out. “The Kingsguard does not flee.”
    “Then or now,” said Ser Arthur. He donned his helm.
    “We swore a vow,” explained old Ser Gerold.
    Ned’s wraiths moved up beside him, with shadow swords in hand. They were seven against three.
    “And now it begins,” said Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning. He unsheathed Dawn and held it with both hands. The blade was pale as milkglass, alive with light.
    “No,” Ned said with sadness in his voice. “Now it ends.”

  87. #87
    Μολών Λαβέ Beef Supreme's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    I'm yoked!
    Posts
    1,217
    Tuconots
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemmiwinks View Post
    Nah, nothing I've read indicates where the Sword Of Morning may be. My fanboy guess would be, knowing Ned Stark, after slaying Arthur Dayne at the Tower of Joy, probably sent the sword back to House Dayne.

    Edit: For fun and good times, the Tower of Joy scene:

    Spoiler: 
    “I looked for you on the Trident,” Ned said to them.
    “We were not there,” Ser Gerold answered.
    “Woe to the Usurper if we had been,” said Ser Oswell.
    “When King's Landing fell, Ser Jaime slew your king with a golden sword, and I wondered where you were.”
    “Far away,” Ser Gerold said, “or Aerys would yet sit the Iron Throne, and our false brother would burn in seven hells.”
    “I came down on Storm's End to lift the siege,” Ned told them, and the Lords Tyrell and Redwyne dipped their banners, and all their knights bent the knee to pledge us fealty. I was certain you would be among them.”
    “Our knees do not bend easily,” said Ser Arthur Dayne.
    “Ser Willem Darry is fled to Dragonstone, with your queen and Prince Viserys. I thought you might have sailed with him.”
    “Ser Willem is a good man and true,” said Ser Oswell.
    “But not of the Kingsguard,” Ser Gerold pointed out. “The Kingsguard does not flee.”
    “Then or now,” said Ser Arthur. He donned his helm.
    “We swore a vow,” explained old Ser Gerold.
    Ned’s wraiths moved up beside him, with shadow swords in hand. They were seven against three.
    “And now it begins,” said Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning. He unsheathed Dawn and held it with both hands. The blade was pale as milkglass, alive with light.
    “No,” Ned said with sadness in his voice. “Now it ends.”
    My kingdom and a nut for a miniseries from HBO of Robert's rebellion. Or a book. Or a comic. Or a game. Anything. I want to see that fight, how it went down, more than anything up to and including the crescendo/climax/conclusion of ASoIaF.

    Sword of Morning is the knight who wields Dawn. Pretty sure Ned brought both Ser Arthur's body and his sword to Starfall, but as to who/where it is currently, only one man knows.

  88. #88
    Registered User Lemmiwinks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    534
    Tuconots
    2
    Oh shit yeah that was the title, the sword is Dawn. Don't know how I made that mistake. What a disgrace of fanboyism

  89. #89
    Μολών Λαβέ Beef Supreme's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    I'm yoked!
    Posts
    1,217
    Tuconots
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemmiwinks View Post
    Oh shit yeah that was the title, the sword is Dawn. Don't know how I made that mistake. What a disgrace of fanboyism
    The only thing you can do now is...fall on the sword.


  90. #90
    Low Information Janitor chaos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    13,413
    Tuconots
    70
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemmiwinks View Post
    I can agree to an extent about the meh feeling of the greyjoy chapters. Except for Victarions in ADWD. Hes just such a raging badass.
    I love the idea of the Greyjoys. The Iron Island culture, the background, the characters, all great. But the chapters themselves have been huge letdowns, at least until Big Vic came on the scene.

  91. #91
    Registered User Merrith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    5,882
    Tuconots
    10
    Quote Originally Posted by Beef Supreme View Post
    My kingdom and a nut for a miniseries from HBO of Robert's rebellion. Or a book. Or a comic. Or a game. Anything. I want to see that fight, how it went down, more than anything up to and including the crescendo/climax/conclusion of ASoIaF.
    So much this.

  92. #92
    Don't Infract Me Bro Burnesto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Your Mom
    Posts
    2,083
    Tuconots
    7
    Victarion is the ultimate badass. Which means he'll die a gruesome death right as he gets rolling.

  93. #93
    Registered User Cybsled's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    4,684
    Tuconots
    27
    He's a badass, but he really has 0 idea what to expect from Dany (and crew). That being said, Dany needs boats, so it wouldn't surprise me if she ends up turning things around on Victarion and he ends up working for her. I'm also guessing she is probably one of the only people who can blow that dragon horn and not die as a result.

  94. #94
    Μολών Λαβέ Beef Supreme's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    I'm yoked!
    Posts
    1,217
    Tuconots
    0
    Victarion needs to be the guy who unleashes something truly awful into Westeros. His character strikes me as the kind of Pyrrhic asshole to see his end neigh, and just say fuck it, and crash his ship into the Super Star Destroyer with a big ass bloody grin on his face. I mean, does he truly hope to marry Dany? Steal her dragons? Control her dragons?

    Then again, he could get R'hllor'd into a Dondarrion sort of deal. Undead Kraken swashbuckling swarthy asshole.

  95. #95
    Superior Member Astr0Chuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    The ruins of Joisey
    Posts
    12,415
    Tuconots
    72
    do all the r'hllor priests have one purpose? i mean is mel manorro bennaro thanos all working at the same goals or do they each make their own interpretations of what they see in the fire? im starting to suspect these rh'llor people have an ultimate goal.

  96. #96
    Registered User Dacianprick, King In The North's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    387
    Tuconots
    10
    Could be completely wrong, and I know there are already theories about the Mummer's Dragon, but I think he's could be the son of the Oberyn and Elia.

    I'd love to see or read a series about Robert's rebellion, but not before this series ends. It'd give away the biggest secret.

  97. #97
    ヽ(o`皿′o)ノ NO! Grimmlokk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    ლ(ಠ益ಠლ) Y U NO?
    Posts
    12,587
    Tuconots
    76

  98. #98
    Janitor Tuco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Ann Arbor, MI
    Posts
    20,175
    Tuconots
    86
    lol @ Strong Horse Guy and Peter Dinklage.

  99. #99
    Registered User Elurin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    California
    Posts
    7,578
    Tuconots
    57
    It's funny, because soon enough everyone will know who the fuck that is.

    Also, I was watching Strike Back: Project Dawn, and thought it was awesome that Liam Cunningham (Davos) and Iain Glen (Jorah) were both bad guys. There any other Game of Thrones actors in Vengeance?

    Edit: Fuuuuck! Just watched the first episode. Charles Dance (Tywin Lannister) is in it!
    Last edited by Elurin; 01-07-2013 at 05:13 AM.

  100. #100
    HE A GOOD BOY Iannis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Jack's Wasted Life
    Posts
    15,187
    Tuconots
    67
    Ginger Stark lol. Cool girl should be "Scary Stark" and they coulda had a pic for the mother for "Zombie Stark".

    And a pic of Ned with "Dead as fuck".

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •