Let's lift a glass of Kanar to the best ST character of all time.
Let's lift a glass of Kanar to the best ST character of all time.
Fuck yeah. Any episode with Garak in it was automatically gold.
Yeah Garak is good shit
Mark the time, boys. I was going to argue, but then realized I couldn't.
I beg to differ.Let's lift a glass of Kanar to the best ST character of all time.
And Q liked to lick Picard's ears too often:
I LOVED TNG and couldn't stand TOS so I decided to download the entire DS9 series. I got threw about 10 episodes of the first season and said fuck this shit. I think I got to the point where the Bajorian priest chick died on that regen planet and would have to live there forever or else the little microbots wouldn't work or something. I am tempted to just skip ahead to when Worf joins them and kicks ass in the Federation cloaking ship but my ass is so Type A that I would have to see everything before it just because. Woe is me.....
DS9 really picks up man. Don't give up on it so soon.
Seconded, DS9 season one and two are a little rough it gets really fucking good though. My wife's favorite Trek is DS9 (despite my bets efforts to beat it out of her) mine is TNG.
Agreed. I absolutely hated DS9 originally, and pretty much refused to give it a second shot. A couple years ago I decided it was time to go back and start watching the various series again, until all I had left was DS9.
I manned up and decided to power through it, one way or the other. A few episodes in, I wanted to claw my goddamn eyes out. Slowly but surely, I started coming around, and by somewhere in the 2nd season, I was completely hooked. The show (specifically, episode "The Magnificent Ferengi") even managed to make me not hate the Ferengi. By the time I finished season 7, I was quite disappointed to see it go.
How long until we get a new TV Series based off the Abrams reboot? Too costly? Too soon? Not enough interest?
I don't care to admit this: I would love a new series, even it it means basing it off the Abramsverse. Lense flare and all.
Worf pitched a show about Capt. Worf. I don't think it got too much energy behind it though. Hopefully if the movie does well their might be a series following it.
I was about to say what Arkk said having only glanced through the comments. DS9 is a different beast because the station pretty much stays put in one local. The shifting alliances and ongoing war create an amazing setting to explore many concepts that don't usually get much Trek attention, by playing with the concepts faith and god throughout the series and turning away from the episodic nature of the other Star Trek series; DS9 creates a dramatic continuous story that was very rocky until TNG wrapped up (TNG, DS9 and Voyager were all sunning at the same time for 2 years). After the first 2 seasons there is a depth of character that is unmatched in any other Trek series.
Garak was the shit, he was only supposed to be in one episode and stole the show and "The Magnificent Ferengi" is by far the funniest episode of Trek ever and "More Trouble with Tribbles" is mind-blowing for it's attention to detail and just how hard it was to pull off; the behind the scenes is a must watch for any fan.
"Trials and Tribble-ations," sir. "More Trouble, More Tribbles" was from the animated series.
I would suggest "The Nagus" 1-11, "Duet 1-19, "In the Hands of the Prophets" 1-20, "Rules of Acquisition" 2-07 "Sanctuary" 2-10, and "Blood Oath" 2-19
I have to say that DS9 was really ahead of it's time in talking about religious extremism and foreign occupation. What we take for granted nearly 20 years later (yes, DS9 premiered in 1993) was the universe that they built in the very first season.
1/2 though season 2 is begins foreshadowing upcoming seasons and gets really good. I suggest giving it another gow and dont skip episodes because there really are some gems mixed in there.
The Magnificent Ferengi had a fantastic role for Iggy Pop which also saved them having the problem of it costing so much money/time to have Combs playing Brunt and Weyoun onscreen together.
Haha man I loved Iggy Pop in that episode.
You missed episode 1-3 "Past Prologue" which was the introduction of Garak; which also guest starred the Duras Sisters, everyone's favorite wacky conniving Klingons from TNG.
It was crossovers like these that help solidify the show before the overarching plot of Sisko's destiny was formed.
The goal of the first season seemed to be to establish Sisko as a man who who had lost his faith in everything before they could develop him into an unwilling messiah, that was a tall order while also establishing the local history and trying to do the normal morality plays Star Trek was known for. Babylon 5 had similar issues for about the same duration, I would say it may be inherent in the format but Firefly broke the mold by having not one single episode of questionable quality. Both Malcom Reynolds and Benjamin Sisko both share a very similar back story of war and loss and abandonment of faith that parallels the story of Job from the Hebrew Bible excepting that Job never lost his faith but to find salvation Mal and Sisko needed to regain theirs.
+1 for Garak. He's probably the best character to come out of Star Trek.
Which is saying a lot, because Bones McCoy is all sorts of awesome, Captain Picard is no slug, and Quark was 100% reliable as both comic relief and characiture... but it's honestly hard to beat a dual class Iksar Tailor/Assassin who may (or may not) be living in (self imposed) exile and exudes the swamp-gas stink of "I will fuck you up, I will fuck everything that you love up, and I will pin it on your best friend -- entirely for my own amusement".
The amazing thing about Garak is that he wasn't written the straight role of villian. You don't see very many characters like Garak in any of the Star Treks. Star Trek is full of noble savages -- and the Prime Directive "protects" them, but to find an educated savage who exists outside the utopian federation and wishes to remain so, while still being sympathetic to the general goals. For Star Trek, that's pretty fucking nuanced.
Last edited by Iannis; 12-11-2012 at 01:33 AM.
Poor kid never got his spin off.
I think they could have made it interesting. Like Star Trek: Quantum Leap.
As much as I hated Wesley, modern day Wil Wheaton kicks ass. In case anyone hasn't seen these, here are some pretty interesting/funny reviews he wrote of the episodes he was a part of. He's also pretty entertaining on twitter.
I enjoy his role on Big Bang Theory, a show that may do more to bring Star Trek back than the kickstarter or the Captain Worf pitch.
Here is a series he does on YouTube, I <3 Garfunkle and Oates (The Gooch!) and Felicia day.
The direction the role playing takes during this episode is both very strange and entertaining.
I thing that promoting these new board games is one of the coolest things he could be doing with his limited fame.
look at that smile, he's still a douche.
I follow him on Twitter, he's actually a pretty cool dude.
TNG > DS9. Too much religious claptrap in DS9. DS9 definitely had a lot better supporting characters though.
I'd love another show, but I'd like it to be more connected with the federation. They're always exploring everything except the federation itself. Obviously they're interested in what is outside, but we don't get to see much of what's inside. I thought the bit in DS9 about the maquis as displaced colonists in Cardassian space was really interesting, but they barely touched it.
Star Wars is really big on exploring the, ultimately dysfunctional, politics of the republic->empire. In Star Trek we're often left to infer that everything on Earth is a perfect union of democracy+capitalism/socialism.
Started watching Enterprise for the first time.
Most of the way through Season 2 and really enjoying it. Solid characters, very few cookie cutter plots, good storylines. There is a real sense of wonder and excitement about truly exploring space instead of the entrenched feeling of having explored it and just squabbling with others (Ferengi, Cardassians, Klingons, Romulans, etc.) about random shit like in TNG and DS9.
Kinda turned into softcore porn real quick though. Here's a couple of screenshots from an episode I watched
Lol is that even real?
Yeah its been said to death, but Season 1 and 2 of DS9 are really worth subjecting yourself to, having seen them all adds a lot of perspective to Sisko's character, among other things. +1 for Magnificent Ferengi and Trials and Tribble-ations being the two funniest episodes of the series.
Saw it with my own 2 eyes, there was tons more shit like that. They really play up that "bunch of humans in space get cabin fever and want to fuck everything they see" angle.
the only episode of enterprise I remember is near the end, where they have a 2 parter that goes into the alt-verse or whatever. It was fucking badass and pretty porno-ish.
I recently saw the best Star Trek episode ever made, The Inner Light (the one where picard gets zapped by a probe and lives a lifetime), and some googling around turned up a whole sequel comic series the original writer did this year, called The Outer Light. Only read a few pages, its pretty rolls-eyes fanfic-y but maybe it'll get better
The writer sounds like a cool guy though, read a couple interviews he did recently
If it wasn't Trek it would have been a really good show, I can ignore the things that bother me enough to enjoy the good story elements and soft-core rubdowns with Hoshi and T'Pol.
Tripp was the the stand out cast member, he was by far the funniest character.
Here is one of his best episodes (but not the best line of the episode)
That was just mean.
I was always an original and TNG fan. Never really watched DS9, but I know people disliked it.
I honestly think they underplayed that element too much in other series. There was always one or two romantic dalliances, but barely contained lust is rare. I think casual sex would be far more likely. They're fit, less religious, have great medical care, and are trapped with each other for long periods. Enterprise had it right.
I have to agree that Tripp was the best character. Even without his interactions with T'Pol he was more fun and interesting than anyone else.
I haven't watched a new scifi show in over a year so I just started watching Star Trek TNG season 1 last week.
Man, I forgot how bad the first season was. Well not the entire season, but i'd say about half the episodes I've watched so far are just face palm worthy.
Here's hoping season two picks up, I honestly can't remember because it's been so long since I watched this series.
It seems like in a perfect world there would be some way to mitigate the first season shitty's. It's not just Star Trek, but Star Trek (and most sci-fi) does suffer from it.
It's not just exposition, or the nature of ensemble shows for the actors, or the writers working with unfamiliar material / dialogues, or everyone involved trying to carve out some interest against a "new shows suck" momentum. First seasons just tend to be shitty.
I guess it would be pretty stupid to do a run of like 40 shows then after everyone involved has a good feel for it go back and rewrite / restage your first 20. The shows that manage to get it right from day 1 are pretty freaking rare tho.
And then it got cancelled.
Reminder - S5, if it had happened, would have given NX-01 a refit:
what could have been enterprise S5.jpg
BSG had a great first season because the miniseries started the show off with a massive amount of momentum. Shows just need to start their story arcs immediately and fill in the rest as the story progresses.
I'd also recommend Farscape as a show she may like, Aeryn and all the other female chars are pretty awesome unlike TNG.
Farscape was fantastic. At some point they just decided that Crichton was going to have the worst day of his life every day for the rest of his life. Scorpius was another one shot villain who was played so fantastically that they made him a central character. He always found new ways to screw with Chrichron's head and at the end when he finally revealed everything he already knew about wormholes, that had to be one of the single greatest plot twists in television history.
Uhura's was a powerful female character for the time simply by her appearance as part of the command crew. They tried to write a tough woman in TNG but Tasha Yar just didn't click and somehow returned to create one of the most incomprehensible story lines in all of trekdom. Troi was Riker's useless ex-girlfriend and got her position because of her mother. Beverly and Pulaski were both good characters but may have been underutilized. Dr Crusher seemed to have far more interest in other fields than medicine but they only played to that as a plot device and not a character strength, Pulaski was a female Dr. Mccoy.
This makes sense as it seemed they were rushing to fix the incongruities between the rest of the series lore and Enterprise's unique take on that established lore. New ship designs would have been built into the show by virtue of Earth trading for new technologies and expanding on their own discoveries as they are put to practical use. The first Warp 5 ship would be replaced as soon as they realized it was not adequate for the challenges and dangers of the universe. Earth would have been at a severe technological disadvantage early on and would have had to rely on forming an alliance with others to overcome the horde of Klingons they had unwittingly made aware of their position. The Vulcans may have been aware of the danger but did nothing as the Klingons were not expanding in their direction at the time being embroiled in the internal struggles the Empire has when there is no clear enemy to fight. The Andoiran-Vulcan conflict was well done at least.Basically, once Berman and Brega fucked off (S3) the new showrunners started turning Enterprise into what it should have been from the start (an actual prequel showing the beginning of the Federation) rather than just Voyager 2: The Early Years.
I would have loved to see at the end of season 1 the first encounter with the Klingon empire. I imagine that the ship would have been severely damaged but allowed to limp back to Earth for the Empire to trace. That would have been more satisfying than the temporal cold war crap they went with.
Last edited by Jefferson; 12-17-2012 at 09:28 PM.
I saw this in FSR and had to repost here.
I keep forgetting about the thing about Voyager that bothered me the more they did it.
Voyager was supposed to be a show about isolation, about being cut off from the Alpha Quadrant.
But it wasn't
Every couple of weeks they would run into some shit that wound up in the Delta Quadrant long before they got there.
The Ferengi Made some sort of sense and did Q. A starfleet ship so far from the Alpha Quadrant might get his curiosity. 7 of 9 made sense because of the Borg transportation network but stumbling across her ship just doesn't make any sense to me.
The missed a crossover opportunity, that Gem'Hadar fleet didn't necessarily just disappear; it's more likely they could have simply been tossed somewhere else as the Prophets didn't seem too keen on killing anyone.
for fun lets list all of the Alpha quadrant stuff in the Voyager series.
from what i remember, they did not stumble over her ship by chance. 7o9 was picked by the collective as a representative since she was one of the few human borg in the delta quadrant
and also..screw logic...she has massive boobs
You are correct about how they met 7o9, but they later stumbled across the ship she had been abducted form while they were easily 50 years away from earth at Voyager's top speed.
I am re-watching the series and highlights from season 1 include the most advanced ship created by the federation nearly being destroyed by cheese. During a chance meeting with Amelia Earhart. Ensign Kim uses his tricorder to locate the power source for Earhart's S.O.S and finds it to be the giant glowing alien device he had somehow failed to notice visually.
I had forgotten about Seska. Episodes staring her were the highlight of the first seasons mostly because she was completely fucking nuts and was written with the same kind of cruel insanity the Dukat and Khan possessed.
My favorite 7 of 9 fact is that the actress basically got obama elected. Her husband wanted her to come with him to sex clubs and do kinky shit, she said fuck that and revealed it all in the divorce. He was a congressman or senator in Chicago, Obama ran to replace him and won. Star Trek advances racial harmony IRL.
Doctor and 7 were definitely the highlights, and really only good part of the show. Their episodes were always awesome. And who the fuck would pick T'Pal over 7, I mean sure shes hot and all but dat haircut, she looks like frodo.
Last edited by spronk; 12-21-2012 at 04:48 PM.
You getting pregnant right now would be a distraction in our primary mission of getting to the alpha quadrant, as pregnancy debilitates your ability to work and the hormonal changes could result in a war with new species we encounter if you perceive imaginary insults. Since condoms are only 99% effective, not 100%, the logical course to continue our mission of exploring human sexuality is to do it in the butt.
Wasn't nelix a pedo for banging kess, since she was only like 3 years old or some shit
He never got to bang Kess I don't think, she was 2 years old and I'd hit it 7 ways to sunday.
I has internetz. Between the picture and the report of domestic abuse I am going to take a leap and believe I have another reason to hate meth.
Correction on Kess' age. In season 2 episode 4 she claims she isn't even two years old, which I believe means she was conceived around the middle of the first season (oops).
At least when Kess Left the show they managed to dump all plot lines that made Neelix look like a child predator.
"I have seen things that can not be unseen"
God damn it Neelix!
voyager was the jeffersons of the star treks. utter garbage
Nearly finished season 1 TNG, man 26 episodes for the first season of a scifi show? That's crazy, heck do any current shows even have 26 episode seasons at all?
Their goal with TNG was to make enough episodes to reach the amount required for syndication. It did so well that they just kept going.
Nowadays, you can skip the syndication goal and aim for short seasons that translate well into DVD sales, so the choice to spend so much more aiming for syndication isn't nearly as appealing due to the unstable nature of chances of early cancellation.
I've worked for a lot of years at watching Star Trek. Over the course of more than a decade, I have now seen every episode of
That's a lot. Here are a couple observations:
1. Star Trek is fun in war-mode. TNG was great when there were battles afoot (When the Klingons went to civil war, for example). DS9 got better as the war got more intense.
2. Enterprise surprised the heck out of me. I thought it was going to be terrible. It was good.
3. Captain Janeway was a complete casting mistake.
4. 7 of 9 needs me.
I always like to imagine the what-if scenario of BSG's Admiral Cain being Voyager's captain instead of Janeway.
voyager should have been BSG first season in Star Trek
they wasted a great opportunity
When I had finished the season finale I finally figured out what made Janeway such a wonderful captain. He coffee must have had copious amounts of alcohol in it. Future Janeway had quit drinking coffee and was making pretty sound decisions for someone who was clearly damaged by the deaths of so many friends. After she starts drinking coffee again she is right back to making piss poor choices.
Wouldn't the temporal police have had gone back and prevented future Janeway from breaking the temporal prime directive? She did bring advanced technology back in time that would alter the course of future history after all.
Last edited by Jefferson; 12-25-2012 at 12:05 AM.
i always heard that Voyager was hamstrung by the "Roddenberry Vision" (always clean ships etc). Anyway i enjoyed it about the same as DS9, both had their ups and downs. At the time it was on, i preferred B'Elanna over 7of9, of all the trek chicks, Jadzia Dax might be my all time fav.
Voyager's problem was that all of Trek's good writers were busy with DS9, so fucktard spectacular Rick Berman was able to be Rick Berman.
Counter proposal: I go home and jerk-off
wasn't the first 2 eps of species 4888(whatever number) like the most action packed in late 90's? i haven't watched those two since they aired over 15 years ago but i remember going, "man that's a lot of action, the borg are fcked". I mean coming from TNG and seeing the rise and fall of locutus, then seeing the borg just get the 90's version of "pwned" was awesome, actually maybe i'll just try to find those 2 eps of voyager.
bunch of borg cubes in a nebula, ordering someone to surrender and prepare to be assimilated before they are all blown the fuck up by these giant orange energy beams from ships offscreen, and the screen fades black into the opening theme.
One of the (many) things I hated about Voyager was the neutering of the Borg. Borg are space zombies, their power lies in their ability to adapt and corrupt anything they come into contact with.
By they end of Voyager they weren't the least bit scary and they somehow failed to assimilate any of the more advanced tech they encountered leaving them stagnant as Voyagers crew advanced.
What would have been really cool is if as Janeway made her way back to the Alpha Quadrant she encountered refugees who no longer had a planet to call home and collected them into a massive flotilla the Voyager being the focal point because of the replicators (no planet no crops).
This would have made sense as the Borg would have taken anything they deemed of value and ignored the rest; they aren't bent on genocide.
The Voyager crew would have been better able to adapt the newcomers technology because the unassimilated races still have the ability to innovate where the Borg only react.
I feel as much as I am harping on Enterprise and Voyager I must say they were better than TOS.
Yeah, I just said that.
Shirtless Sulu would like a word with you!
Some of TOS were ok. The rock monster which spawned the, "Dammit Jim, I'm a doctor not a ..." was actually decent. I remember an episode where they encounter a Dyson Sphere. They just fly right up to the damn thing and are like "lolwut?" and then Scotty calls them all idiots. Two kirk episodes were even decent! Evil Kirk and then the one where Kirk was trapped outside in a spacesuit. And of course, The Trouble with Tribbles.
They don't show the really decent ones that much. Dunno why. Whenever I catch it on a rerun it's ALWAYS the one with Kirk punching the lizard costume.
The flotilla idea you propose I think was something a few of the writers were pushing for, but it was deemed too un-Star Trek like. Moore went on to pitch BSG anyways, so probably a good idea that Voyager didn't turn into a lame version of BSG which would have killed any chance of BSG being made.
I hope in my lifetime we see someone make a Culture, Ringworld, or Dreaming Void series. Those are all great galactic soap opera book series.
Its hard watching TOS, as a scifi nerd I feel its my duty to watch but man those special effects... and this is the re-mastered edition, but still looking at cardboard screens or the hilariously bad "ship shaking" is tough. I think in 2 years I've made it through 5 episodes
during season 3 of TNG you were genuinely afraid of the Borg
by season 3 of Voyager you were like "haha, a borg episode, fucking ghey..."
i had a discussion with another nerd like myself about all these "faceless" races. The Tyranid from wh40k, the early zerg in starcraft, even (to a lesser extend) the Cylons in BSG
they all were enemies you could not comunicate with. they is no understanding, now dialogue. They are mindless, indifferent waves of destructions. The Borg, just like the zerg, have lost that characteristic the moment they have been characterized. They are now powerful enemies, but enemies you can at least understand to some extend. An this understanding, even if little, makes them way less scary
Hive mind, flying insects, queen. I guess.
Talk about phoning it in. Just about anything they did that wasn't "lol, borgqueen" would have been better. I'm having trouble thinking of something that would have been worse... but there probably is something.
I disagree with Hugh and the Borg Queen being a bad thing. The queen was poorly executed but it does stand to reason that the hive mind would have a singular dictator who enjoys the fruits of her done labor while denying them and everyone they encounter the same right to individuality. Had they written her as an Empress whose empire has grown in such a way that it requires such a vast and continuous supply of raw materials that it would collapse upon itself if the flow of goods ever stopped it would have given an underlying motivation to the Borg's consumption of everything and would have much better defined the Queens own motivations. The genisis of the drone could have been derived from this, The society would collapse without resources but her subjects were too compassionate to destroy another world to save their own and so she began the conversion of her army into one without compassion or free will out of necessity and the process propagated itself as the Borg Society was still unable to self-sustain until it became the unstoppable juggernaut we saw in TOS. This would be analogous of the British empire and the conditions leading up to the American Revolution but with zombie cyborgs.
The story of Hugh being severed from the hive mind and adapting by developing free will was one of morality in the face of war. The crew saw the Borg as one unrelenting and dangerous not because they were evil but because they had no compassion or empathy. Once they determined that the Borg are potentially dominated individuals and not a singular entity their utter destruction would have severe moral implications. This I believe was directed at the threat that communism implied.
iirc, the plan of unleashing Hugh's independence upon the Borg worked in a limited fashion but as the newly freed Borg tried to understand their purpose as individuals they were easily dominated by a smooth talking Lore, representing the threat a cult of personality can have on an unguarded and well meaning populace. They had found freedom only to give it away.
the only reason the queen is introduced is because picard/janeway need an antagonist that they trade their little monologues with, they need an adversary with a face,
there's no way that you could make that work without ruining what essentially made the borg such a frightening adversary: they are a monolith without a leader. there is no one to talk to or reason with.
Janeway had a way to stop the Borg once and for all from ever attacking the majority of the Universe and she let decided not to use it, or didn't even see the option that presented itself.
If the Borg names "One" had allowed himself to be captured by the collective it would have nullified the Borg's need to seek advanced technology which is their primary reason for attacking other cultures. The Borg tend to ignore that which they consider of no value or threat and once they had assimilated the future tech that would most likely include the majority of species excepting maybe the Q.
But I guess DS9 did that episode, and it wouldn't have really been "Star Trek". Gene Rodenberry did not believe in intractable evils.
i'm glad the borg were not a insectoid race because its hard to see how assimilation would work then.
the assimilation aspect was also frightening because you did not just lose when you become assimilated, you became a helpless assistant to what you were just fighting against hours earlier with all your being.
Species 8472 and everything to do with Special 8472 was the dumbest shit in Voyager, and that's saying something cause there was a lot of dumb shit in voyger.
I just experienced the theme song for Enterprise for the first time. Good god that is some terrible shit.
redneck country music motherfuckers, my ears bleed just embedding this
compare that shit to this
HORN MELODY. SO MAJESTIC.
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