Results 1 to 94 of 94

Thread: The Man in the High Castle (Amazon Prime)

  1. #1
    Registered User Cybsled's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    4,684
    Tuconots
    27

    The Man in the High Castle (Amazon Prime Pilot - Alternate 1960s - Germany won WW2)

    Amazon.com: The Man in the High Castle [HD]: Amazon Instant Video

    This flew totally under the radar for me, even though I'm familiar with the Philip K Dick novel of the same name. Amazon just released their new line of show pilots and this was one of them.

    As a background, the book is essentially an alternate history/reality novel in which the main story takes place in the 1960s, but one in which Germany and Japan won WW2 (think Wolfenstein: The New Order). The US is basically split between the two nations, with Germany controlling most of it. However, relations between Germany and Japan aren't the strongest, especially with Hitler rumored to be in very poor health.

    While some of the CGI was a little iffy in a few spots, overall it was a really solid pilot and made me want to see the rest of the series. If you have an Amazon Prime sub, it is worth checking out, especially if you love "what if?" historical scenarios.
    Last edited by Cybsled; 01-16-2015 at 02:01 PM.

  2. #2
    Registered User Qhue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Boston MA
    Posts
    2,409
    Tuconots
    16
    I am a total sucker for Alt-History sort of sci-fi (Crimson Skies, Deadlands, Temeraire etc) so I may be a bit biased, but I found this to be exceptional. While parts of the setting seemed a bit over the top (the hospital bit for example) the overall theme and portrayal of what an alternate version of 1962 would be like had the Axis won seemed quite fascinating. At the heart it is essentially a Cold War setting but with the flip to Germany and Japan instead of the U.S. and the Soviet Union. I found it amusing that in this alternative portrayal that german engineering has proceeded quickly along the tech curve while Japan is seen as much less technologically advanced and more spiritual. Naturally we find it amusing to think of Japan as anything other than a technology powerhouse, but most of that development came about as part of the U.S. led reconstruction of Japanese industry. In the 60s people still thought of Japanese products as cheap and shoddy even though that was soon to change (Mad Men did a nice bit about this with their Honda ad campaign in season 4 I think it was)

    I voted for it on the Pilot Season web page and the overall initial results show that people are flocking to it more than the other shows... but I wonder if Amazon will lean more towards serious / edgy subject matter following the success of Transparent rather than going for the obvious popcorn appeal of this show.

  3. #3
    Registered User Cybsled's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    4,684
    Tuconots
    27
    Well, you have to have a good mix of shows to attract a wide audience. Netflix didn't make a bunch of House of Card clones after the success of that show and found success in other types of shows (like Orange is the New Black).

    In any case, I hope it gets a full season order. I do wonder how many seasons you could realistically squeeze from the source material and avoid answering the main mystery in the show for as long as possible...you obviously want to avoid a 'Lost' scenario (ie, 3 seasons of the hatch bs), although the advantage of this over a show like Lost is the world this takes place in has a lot more material to expand and explore (politics/world building/etc), but eventually people would want answers about the core mystery/plot line.

  4. #4
    My wand shoots stars Gnomedolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    1,969
    Tuconots
    50
    I watched this and really liked it. I hope it gets picked up. I keep thinking that I've seen the woman before. She looks like the woman who played Jack in the movie The Chronicles of Riddick.

  5. #5
    Registered User Cybsled's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    4,684
    Tuconots
    27
    Alexa Davalos - IMDb

    Yup, she was. She looked wicked familiar to me as well and I couldn't put my finger on it.

  6. #6
    Registered User khalid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    10,539
    Tuconots
    31
    Really enjoyed this. I picked up the book it is based on, but now not sure I want to read it and spoil the show.

  7. #7
    Registered User Cybsled's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    4,684
    Tuconots
    27
    Amazon Orders Full Season Of (Video) | Deadline

    Amazon picked it up for a full season. The fact it was their most watched pilot episode will hopefully convince them to spend some money on it

  8. #8
    Registered User Leadsalad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    1,159
    Tuconots
    11
    I'm hoping it turns into an excellent miniseries to cover the book. Then they could potentially go forward from the source. Dragging out the book though would be awfully boring.

  9. #9
    Registered User Qhue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Boston MA
    Posts
    2,409
    Tuconots
    16
    Oooo nice! Looking forward to this. I do like how the whole nature of 'TV' programming has changed now with these new content producers.

  10. #10
    Font of Positivity Mist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    11,005
    Tuconots
    14
    Fuck, the pilot for this was awesome.

  11. #11
    Registered User cabbitcabbit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Portland
    Posts
    1,117
    Tuconots
    40
    Pretty different from the book but I really enjoyed it.

    I'm wondering how they'll finish it though because that book gets SUPER fucking strange near the end.

    Edit: At least strange if you're not familiar with how Philip K. Dick operated in his writing.
    Last edited by cabbitcabbit; 03-10-2015 at 05:38 AM.

  12. #12
    #barnsohard Intrinsic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    5,659
    Tuconots
    52
    Was disappointed this was only a pilot, fully prepared to binge watch this while not being able to sleep. QQ will have to wait. Was really good though.
    Pussy bitch Draegan sold us out to MMORPG.com

    Exodus underway to Rererolled - A Gaming Community

    Oh and sorta fuck Tuco too.

  13. #13
    Registered User KCXIV's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    1,014
    Tuconots
    8
    Quote Originally Posted by Intrinsic View Post
    Was disappointed this was only a pilot, fully prepared to binge watch this while not being able to sleep. QQ will have to wait. Was really good though.
    Amazon is doing it right, letting the people decide if the show should be a go or not before proceeding. I love that they do that.,

  14. #14
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    547
    Tuconots
    5
    Just watched the pilot. Really freaking good. Looks like it starts back up in November.

  15. #15
    Registered User Pilforgod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    172
    Tuconots
    1
    I highly suggest everyone reads everything by Philip K. Dick. All of his stories are really good. Some are REALLY strange (There was a chapter in Lies, Inc. that was written while the story teller was on LSD, strangest thing I've ever read) and some are just really creative and fun. Lots more movies and tv shows to come from them probably too, really looking forward to this one!

  16. #16
    Registered User Blitz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    1,249
    Tuconots
    -1
    Read the pilot after reading this thread, and I really enjoyed it. I am really fighting myself to not buy the book, I just wanna hold out until Nov. 20th and binge watch the fuck out of this. I also really like the lead actress, saw her in some stupid shit that was on HBO late at night while working (something with Morgan Freeman). Anyways, the alt-history "Axis States of America" thing has been done multiple times, but its the whole is this propaganda or temporal paradox shit with the footage that really had me intrigued. Also the show had a believability that shows like The Americans get right, that's often decently difficult.

    Btw, when she first watches the footage, just watching that scene I could feel what that would be like. I loved it. Ready for Nov. 20th. Most recent trailer for anyone else interested:

  17. #17
    Registered User joeboo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    7,906
    Tuconots
    52
    2nd episode available this weekend

    Full series releases Nov 20th

    Can't wait

    s Free Preview Weekend | Deadline

  18. #18
    Notorious ruse master Picasso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    WV
    Posts
    4,705
    Tuconots
    50
    Just watched episode 2. I like it. Entertaining and also thought provoking.

  19. #19
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    547
    Tuconots
    5
    Yeah, adding this to my list of shows to watch as well.

  20. #20
    Registered User Lusiphur's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Bonny Scotland
    Posts
    533
    Tuconots
    -2
    Seems only a shitty rip of Ep 02 is available in torrent land. However, Amazon tells me to sign up for Prime Video even though I already have Prime. Frowny face.

  21. #21
    Registered User Cybsled's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    4,684
    Tuconots
    27
    Just watched episode 2. Insane suspense at the end ;p

  22. #22
    Skebe Bebe SekaiX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    133
    Tuconots
    0
    This show is so gooood.

  23. #23
    Registered User Qhue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Boston MA
    Posts
    2,409
    Tuconots
    16
    Finally got around to watching episode 2... the 20th seems so far away now. Very smart of them to not only release the first episode to everyone but to release this second episode ahead of time to build word of mouth before the deluge.

  24. #24
    Registered User Harfle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    841
    Tuconots
    -5
    Alright saw like 3 good posts and then I goto Amazon to look and only like one episode available to stream ugh

  25. #25
    #barnsohard Intrinsic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    5,659
    Tuconots
    52
    Just wait 3 days, it is almost time.
    Pussy bitch Draegan sold us out to MMORPG.com

    Exodus underway to Rererolled - A Gaming Community

    Oh and sorta fuck Tuco too.

  26. #26
    I WILL BE YOUR DOOM Utnayan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    5,463
    Tuconots
    32
    So I just saw this on Amazon when I was looking at a sub for my theater room, and I have not watched it yet. I came here to ask if it was any good, and now I do not have too. I am going to watch the pilot tonight. And it seems just in time as the entire season comes out today. I LOVE the alternate reality world war 2 theme.

    It's all free for prime members?

  27. #27
    Registered User meStevo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Las Vegas, NV
    Posts
    2,053
    Tuconots
    12
    Yeah, this is one of their Prime-exclusive shows, episodes all included in your membership.

  28. #28
    Registered User Harfle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    841
    Tuconots
    -5
    Quote Originally Posted by Lusiphur View Post
    Seems only a shitty rip of Ep 02 is available in torrent land. However, Amazon tells me to sign up for Prime Video even though I already have Prime. Frowny face.
    do you have legit prime or using someone elses shared accesss?

  29. #29
    #barnsohard Intrinsic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    5,659
    Tuconots
    52
    I have Prime and it is working fine. No additional sign up or anything needed.

    edit: oops didn't realize he was responding to something from Oct 29
    Pussy bitch Draegan sold us out to MMORPG.com

    Exodus underway to Rererolled - A Gaming Community

    Oh and sorta fuck Tuco too.

  30. #30
    Registered User Jimbolini's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Blue Springs MO
    Posts
    1,458
    Tuconots
    4
    I have watched three episodes atm, pretty solid show.

  31. #31
    Registered User joeboo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    7,906
    Tuconots
    52
    Yep Im 4 episodes in and really enjoying this even though I have no idea where the storyline is going at this point

  32. #32
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    201
    Tuconots
    -1
    Interesting ending. I think I'll have to actually read the book on this one.

  33. #33
    MAKE EARTH EXTINCT AGAIN! Abefroman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    9,468
    Tuconots
    103
    This was fantastic.

  34. #34
    Registered User joeboo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    7,906
    Tuconots
    52
    Powered through this whole season this weekend...great show but it left me with so many questions

    Spoiler: 

    I kinda had the feeling from the start that we were dealing with an alternate reality in which maybe the true reality existed at some level since the "true" movie reels kept showing up, and we are dealing with a sci-fi writer after all. But we saw a third tape right there at the end with either another "alternate" reality, or a vision of the future in the current reality with a bomb dropping on San Fran and the main characters being involved. That one was odd, I still don't know if we're purely dealing with 2 different realities, or more than 2.

    Also, the Trade Minister at the end closing his eyes and then opening them to appear in the "real" reality where America won the war. Are we going to be going down the sci-fi route of a person(or people) who can travel between parallel universes/realities, or is that purely just some sort of dream state(or he possibly killed himself and "awoke" in this world). I have no idea which direction that is going to go.

    And one last thing...so "The Man in the High Castle" is Hitler himself? Or did Hitler have all of those films because his Nazis had intercepted that many, and there's still another party out there collecting them somewhere?


    Really like the show. So many gray areas, not much is black & white and easy to figure out. People who you think are evil at the start aren't necessarily so by the end. Everyone has a pretty good reason for what they are doing, whether it's selfish, unselfish, their idea of helping others or their nation, etc. Hell, even
    Spoiler: 
    Hitler himself maybe isn't the ultimate evil that you would expect, he fleshed out the usurpers within the Nazi party mainly to prevent a Germany-Japan war, Hitler wants to ultimately keep the peace


    Crazy stuff...I'm assuming they're planning a 2nd season? Surely that wasn't a one-off and that was the ending?

  35. #35
    Registered User Ukerric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    1,807
    Tuconots
    12
    Quote Originally Posted by joeboo View Post
    Crazy stuff...I'm assuming they're planning a 2nd season? Surely that wasn't a one-off and that was the ending?
    It's TV. If it's succesful, it will have a sequel, even though the book itself basically covers that season 1 and Dick never wrote a sequel.

  36. #36
    Registered User Frenzied Wombat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Tejas
    Posts
    5,686
    Tuconots
    22
    I guess I'm the only one that found this underwhelming and mediocre? I watched the whole season this weekend, and it was alright, but for the most part I just kept seeing squandered potential. Maybe they were restricted by source material (I haven't read the book), but with such an amazing premise there were all sorts of possibilities concerning backstory, lore, and history that weren't exploited. Also, the scope of the story just felt very narrow considering the grand theme, focusing on a few uninteresting characters. The only ones I found interesting were Rudolph and Fuhrer John. The "films" as a plot device was certainly interesting, but nothing really develops around their value/origin until the last episode. The "resistance" isn't really anything rooting for, because it literally just feels like it's comprised of a few nobodies whose only job is to transport/find films..

    Some things that drove me nuts.. Not sure if these were plot holes or if I just missed something:
    Spoiler: 

    - Why was the little worm friend that works in the metal factory so willing to sacrifice his own money, then eventually his life, to cover for the guy with the glasses that made the gun??
    - Lol at how many times they "escaped through the back door". Obviously none of the bad guys in this movie know about back doors.
    - Fuhrer John take his captain or whatever to the roof, and the dude never realizes he's about to get shoved off the edge??
    - If Hitler knew Rudolph was coming to kill him, why the fuck leave his guns lying around loaded???
    Last edited by Frenzied Wombat; 11-23-2015 at 03:52 PM.

  37. #37
    Registered User joeboo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    7,906
    Tuconots
    52
    Quote Originally Posted by Frenzied Wombat View Post
    I guess I'm the only one that found this underwhelming and mediocre? I watched the whole season this weekend, and it was alright, but for the most part I just kept seeing squandered potential. Maybe they were restricted by source material (I haven't read the book), but with such an amazing premise there were all sorts of possibilities concerning backstory, lore, and history that weren't exploited. Also, the scope of the story just felt very narrow considering the grand theme, focusing on a few uninteresting characters. The only ones I found interesting were Rudolph and Fuhrer John. The "films" as a plot device was certainly interesting, but nothing really develops around their value/origin until the last episode. The "resistance" isn't really anything rooting for, because it literally just feels like it's comprised of a few nobodies whose only job is to transport/find films..

    Some things that drove me nuts.. Not sure if these were plot holes or if I just missed something:
    Spoiler: 

    - Why was the little worm friend that works in the metal factory so willing to sacrifice his own money, then eventually his life, to cover for the guy with the glasses that made the gun??
    - Lol at how many times they "escaped through the back door". Obviously none of the bad guys in this movie know about back doors.
    - Fuhrer John take his captain or whatever to the roof, and the dude never realizes he's about to get shoved off the edge??
    - If Hitler knew Rudolph was coming to kill him, why the fuck leave his guns lying around loaded???
    As far as a couple of your points

    Spoiler: 
    I think Hitler left his guns loaded because he's basically a benevolent dictator who seems himself as invincible, and also someone who is persuasive enough that he can talk a man out of assassinating him, and into killing himself. Can you imagine how big Hitlers ego would be if he had won the war and captured America? He'd feel like an invincible god. He's used to people dying for him daily, he has no sense of mortality whatsoever, I'd imagine.

    And as far as the uberwhateverfurer John pushing that guy off the roof, it was a little hokey the way it went down but I have a feeling the Nazi party is very used to people dying under suspicious circumstances and they just all kinda turn a blind eye, as opposed to speaking up against a superior officer and possibly ending up the same way. Seems like a ton of backstabbing and in-fighting within the Nazi party as a whole


    My only real gripe with the show is that I want more back story/lore of how WW2 ended up. There are multiple mentions of the Nazis dropping an H-bomb on Washington DC, and a large-scale invasion of the US with several US veterans referring to the "Battle of Virginia Beach" like it's the Battle of Normandy or something.

    Also, I thought of one more question(regarding the Japanese)
    Spoiler: 
    We see at one point that the Trade Ministers aid has severe burns on his arms, he has long sleeves on you you only see a bit but it kinda seems like they might be pretty widespread. We then find out in a later episode that he is from Nagasaki, but in this reality no A-bomb never dropped on Nagasaki. Is he possibly from the "real" reality where it did drop? Can the Japanese travel between the two realities?


    Also

    Spoiler: 
    What is this Heisenburg Device that the German spy gave the Japanese science minister? It's made out to sound like a weapon of some sort, a technology that gives the Nazis a dominance over everyone else. But is it a weapon, or is it something more like a time machine? Isn't the transporters in Star Trek called a Heisenburg somethingorother?
    Last edited by joeboo; 11-23-2015 at 04:37 PM.

  38. #38
    Registered User Frenzied Wombat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Tejas
    Posts
    5,686
    Tuconots
    22
    Quote Originally Posted by joeboo View Post
    As far as a couple of your points

    Spoiler: 
    I think Hitler left his guns loaded because he's basically a benevolent dictator who seems himself as invincible, and also someone who is persuasive enough that he can talk a man out of assassinating him, and into killing himself. Can you imagine how big Hitlers ego would be if he had won the war and captured America? He'd feel like an invincible god. He's used to people dying for him daily, he has no sense of mortality whatsoever, I'd imagine.

    And as far as the uberwhateverfurer John pushing that guy off the roof, it was a little hokey the way it went down but I have a feeling the Nazi party is very used to people dying under suspicious circumstances and they just all kinda turn a blind eye, as opposed to speaking up against a superior officer and possibly ending up the same way. Seems like a ton of backstabbing and in-fighting within the Nazi party as a whole
    Spoiler: 

    Those are pretty big assumptions, especially when they don't paint it into the story itself. If you know someone is coming to kill you with your own guns, would you leave them loaded? I get that Hitler was a narcissist, but without justifying it within the story itself, it just came off as illogical and a big plot hole.

    As for Fuhrer John, I don't have issue with him trying to make it look like a suicide, my issue is that the victim didn't see it coming when it was entirely obvious. Would you be standing at the ledge during that line of questioning and accusations? The whole thing seemed contrived and anti-climactic. Same thing with that scene at the bridge where the "elite agent" is trying to shove the girl off the bridge. The whole struggle seemed "fake", and the charcoal portrait that's found by the bountey hunter a few days later-- are we supposed to believe that the piece of paper hadn't been blown miles away over the course of a day or two"?

  39. #39
    Registered User Frenzied Wombat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Tejas
    Posts
    5,686
    Tuconots
    22
    Quote Originally Posted by joeboo View Post
    As far as a couple of your points

    Spoiler: 
    I think Hitler left his guns loaded because he's basically a benevolent dictator who seems himself as invincible, and also someone who is persuasive enough that he can talk a man out of assassinating him, and into killing himself. Can you imagine how big Hitlers ego would be if he had won the war and captured America? He'd feel like an invincible god. He's used to people dying for him daily, he has no sense of mortality whatsoever, I'd imagine.

    And as far as the uberwhateverfurer John pushing that guy off the roof, it was a little hokey the way it went down but I have a feeling the Nazi party is very used to people dying under suspicious circumstances and they just all kinda turn a blind eye, as opposed to speaking up against a superior officer and possibly ending up the same way. Seems like a ton of backstabbing and in-fighting within the Nazi party as a whole


    My only real gripe with the show is that I want more back story/lore of how WW2 ended up. There are multiple mentions of the Nazis dropping an H-bomb on Washington DC, and a large-scale invasion of the US with several US veterans referring to the "Battle of Virginia Beach" like it's the Battle of Normandy or something.

    Also, I thought of one more question(regarding the Japanese)
    Spoiler: 
    We see at one point that the Trade Ministers aid has severe burns on his arms, he has long sleeves on you you only see a bit but it kinda seems like they might be pretty widespread. We then find out in a later episode that he is from Nagasaki, but in this reality no A-bomb never dropped on Nagasaki. Is he possibly from the "real" reality where it did drop? Can the Japanese travel between the two realities?


    Also

    Spoiler: 
    What is this Heisenburg Device that the German spy gave the Japanese science minister? It's made out to sound like a weapon of some sort, a technology that gives the Nazis a dominance over everyone else. But is it a weapon, or is it something more like a time machine? Isn't the transporters in Star Trek called a Heisenburg somethingorother?
    Spoiler: 

    The Heisenberg device is basically the H-bomb tech. We can only assume in this alternate universe that it wasn't Oppenheimer that developed the H bomb, it was Heisenberg in Germany

  40. #40
    Registered User joeboo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    7,906
    Tuconots
    52
    Makes sense.

    Spoiler: 

    Its just that in most other works of fiction, "Heisenburg" seems to be related to teleportation & time travel related things. A lot of theorycrafting about time travel always brings up the Heisenburg Uncertainty Principle, which generally is the principle that most people reference to debunk the possibility of space/time travel. But maybe in this universe instead of Werner Heisenburg coming up with the principle that basically debunks the physics of time travel, he invents it? Who knows. Maybe I'm thinking too much about this and it is just the Hydrogen Bomb.

  41. #41
    Registered User Frenzied Wombat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Tejas
    Posts
    5,686
    Tuconots
    22
    Quote Originally Posted by joeboo View Post
    Makes sense.

    Spoiler: 

    Its just that in most other works of fiction, "Heisenburg" seems to be related to teleportation & time travel related things. A lot of theorycrafting about time travel always brings up the Heisenburg Uncertainty Principle, which generally is the principle that most people reference to debunk the possibility of space/time travel. But maybe in this universe instead of Werner Heisenburg coming up with the principle that basically debunks the physics of time travel, he invents it? Who knows. Maybe I'm thinking too much about this and it is just the Hydrogen Bomb.
    Spoiler: 

    Your logic is valid because that was Heisenberg's invention. I was confused as well until the trade minister discusses the parity that would be created by leaking the tech. That's kind of what I meant by them failing to discuss lore, history, or backstory. A lot of things are confusing or don't make sense until much later because they don't fill in the historical blanks of how the world ended up the way it is, beyond the very simple "Nazis won the war and dropped an H bomb on Washington". What/how led up to that is mostly a mystery, even by the end of the season. It's a cheap way to create confusion and suspense at the expense of what could have been some really cool historical footage and narratives.

  42. #42
    Registered User joeboo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    7,906
    Tuconots
    52
    We already need a prequel season after just 1 normal season, lol

    It could be epic. 1945-1950 or so, everything that happened in the new history line with WW2 not ending until like 1948 or whatever when the Nazis took America, Stalin was killed, Nazis taking the African continent, etc.

    The way people talk in the show, South America is really the only place left on earth that isn't under Japan/Nazi rule

  43. #43
    MAKE EARTH EXTINCT AGAIN! Abefroman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    9,468
    Tuconots
    103
    Quote Originally Posted by Frenzied Wombat View Post
    Spoiler: 

    The Heisenberg device is basically the H-bomb tech. We can only assume in this alternate universe that it wasn't Oppenheimer that developed the H bomb, it was Heisenberg in Germany
    Spoiler: 
    Quote Originally Posted by Noodleface
    Marriage is the best, I love having sex with my husband and giving him BJ's when I'm on my period

  44. #44
    Registered User Frenzied Wombat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Tejas
    Posts
    5,686
    Tuconots
    22
    Quote Originally Posted by joeboo View Post
    We already need a prequel season after just 1 normal season, lol

    It could be epic. 1945-1950 or so, everything that happened in the new history line with WW2 not ending until like 1948 or whatever when the Nazis took America, Stalin was killed, Nazis taking the African continent, etc.

    The way people talk in the show, South America is really the only place left on earth that isn't under Japan/Nazi rule
    Yeah, that's what I felt was seriously missing.. I was constantly hungering for backstory-- even more so when they'd drop references to enslaving Africa and killing Stalin. So much potential for some really cool scenes and/or flashbacks, but instead it was squandered on some feeble "resistance" and three very boring main characters (Joe, glasses boyfriend, and the girl).

    I mean I guess it could be coming in season 2, but imho it was far more suited to the first season. My assumption is they didn't have the budget to do it (reliving war scenes or Africa based sets) because except for some CGI scenes of landscape and buildings, the sets themselves were really small.

  45. #45
    Registered User Slaythe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Minneapolis, MN
    Posts
    3,169
    Tuconots
    -1
    I'm about half way through, so still a bit to go, but...

    while I agree with you guys completely, that I'm constantly wanting more and more of the lore, I think the little hints at stuff is a really clever way to reveal the history of the world, rather than shoving exposition down our throats. The new Mad Max did this the best, with you walking away understanding completely the social structure of that world without ever actually having it be spoken to you.

    Overall I think it's a positive in comparison to a lot of recent media where it seems like we get more of an "Americans are dumb" mindset for the writing. I definitely crave more though.

  46. #46
    Notorious ruse master Picasso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    WV
    Posts
    4,705
    Tuconots
    50
    The only thing this ending was missing was murph

  47. #47
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    485
    Tuconots
    15
    Just finished this show. thought it was excellent all around.
    Spoiler: 
    I was a little disappointed when they saw Frank in the film. I prefer the idea of them just being ordinary people randomly involved in something greater. but it seems this was 'fate' or someone maybe pulling strings to get them involved.

    Minor gripe. still loved the show. looking forward to next season someday

    Did she blow the guy to get that job?
    Last edited by uncognito; 11-26-2015 at 11:22 PM.

  48. #48
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    18,518
    Tuconots
    47
    Just watched the pilot.

    Good shit. Going to try and cram the whole season this holiday.

  49. #49
    #barnsohard Intrinsic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    5,659
    Tuconots
    52
    Quote Originally Posted by Frenzied Wombat View Post
    Spoiler: 

    Your logic is valid because that was Heisenberg's invention. I was confused as well until the trade minister discusses the parity that would be created by leaking the tech. That's kind of what I meant by them failing to discuss lore, history, or backstory. A lot of things are confusing or don't make sense until much later because they don't fill in the historical blanks of how the world ended up the way it is, beyond the very simple "Nazis won the war and dropped an H bomb on Washington". What/how led up to that is mostly a mystery, even by the end of the season. It's a cheap way to create confusion and suspense at the expense of what could have been some really cool historical footage and narratives.
    We just finished the season too and I don't know how to respond to multiple spoilers in line and shit, so I'll just use this as a jumping off point... (having never read the source material)

    Spoiler: 


    Hitler seemed to definitely be the Man in the High Castle. We saw his shelf of collected films that I assume the 'resistance' had been funneling to him the whole time. Which goes back to his narcissism and why he'd leave the gun loaded when Wegener came in to kill him. He believes he's already seen the possible futures and what would happen.

    Also we saw Obergruppenfuhrer Smith write a letter to Mein Fuhrer which we didn't see. And time was always kind of a jumbled mess in this show with people going from Canon City to San Fransisco, San Fransisco to New York, or to Berlin in single cuts... so maybe that letter outlined his concerns about Oberstgruppenfuhrer and Wegener to give Hitler the leg up.

    Those two combined make enough sense to me.

    I also think the Heisenberg device is definitely the uncertainty device or camera or whatever foil they want to throw out. We know Trade Minister Tagomi's assistant was from Nagasaki and there wasn't an overt reference to a bomb being dropped. Our idea of an 'H-bomb' was likely never created in this timeline which led to the Axis winning the war. Whatever Heisenberg device supplanted that and allowed Hitler to win WWII and begin this new Reich.

    Tagomi's place in it all is stranger especially given the end. We know he has a belief in mysticism and 'the Oracle' / his sticks. Those drove his motivations to work with Julianna and Wegener to move towards some goal. To give the Japanese access to the Heisenberg Device? And end this stalemate? But Kido said they didn't want that, or at least to be equals....

    You don't really need the how's and why's or when's about the backstory. The story is that they won WWII and here we are. The Germans and Japanese were allies of convenience now in a pseudo cold war (sorry Politics Thread), the Americans are stuck in the middle, and there's these films and a 'resistance.'

    The whole things seemed like the plot to Command and Conquer: Red Alert. Wasn't that the one where Hitler escaped through the thing and NOD took over, etc...

    Frank Frink was a shit fuck of a character though. Guy had literally zero redeeming qualities. First two (?) episodes were like, 'Damn sorry for this guy.' But after that it was 7 episodes of a total whine fest and him being pissed. YOU DIDN'T MAKE THE BUS JULIANNA! Sorry I got abducted by the Yakuza and they were goin---- BUT YOU PROMISED!!! get fucked you fag.

    She totally blew that guy for the job though.
    Last edited by Intrinsic; 11-26-2015 at 06:24 AM.
    Pussy bitch Draegan sold us out to MMORPG.com

    Exodus underway to Rererolled - A Gaming Community

    Oh and sorta fuck Tuco too.

  50. #50
    Titty Master Vanderhoof's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    551
    Tuconots
    13
    I assumed it was a fancy, white gloved handy.

    The I Ching was an important element of the book (PKD said he used it to determine character's choices while writing the novel). Maybe the films are a modern I Ching and help guide the viewers choices.

  51. #51
    Registered User Jimbolini's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Blue Springs MO
    Posts
    1,458
    Tuconots
    4
    Just finished..interesting idea for sure.


    I can see why this can be confusing...could use a little more backstory I guess.

    But all in all...good show.


    Edit: Russell Sewell who played Obergruppenführer Smith looked very much like Robert Knepper who played T-Bag on Prison Break.

    (At least to me..until my wife pointed out it was different actor.)
    Last edited by Jimbolini; 11-27-2015 at 02:03 PM.

  52. #52
    Irritable Jait's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    3,581
    Tuconots
    40
    Quote Originally Posted by Vanderhoof View Post
    I assumed it was a fancy, white gloved handy.

    The I Ching was an important element of the book (PKD said he used it to determine character's choices while writing the novel). Maybe the films are a modern I Ching and help guide the viewers choices.
    Yeah, it was only *based* on the books though. That to me made it confusing, they changed way too much. They kept the original ending, but skipped the

    Spoiler: 
    spaceships and colonies


    Either way one thing that needs to be pointed out is that PKD
    Spoiler: 
    didn't intend this to be an alternate version of our history, but an alternate-alternate version of our history. The original timeline is not just us winning WW2, but a world in which the British Empire conquers the planet and Roosevelt steps down. This is explained not through film but through a fiction within a fiction, it's a book not a filmreel


    It's typical Dick stuff, he gives you a bunch of data and you need to turn it into information.

    edit: Here's one pretty good interpretation of the book if anyone is interested. And I agree with 95% of it .

    Meaning in The Man in the High Castle
    Last edited by Jait; 11-27-2015 at 07:14 PM.

  53. #53
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    547
    Tuconots
    5
    I enjoyed it. Hope there's another season. I really love the intro song. There's something about that version of Edelweiss.

  54. #54
    Registered User Jimbolini's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Blue Springs MO
    Posts
    1,458
    Tuconots
    4
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender4212 View Post
    I enjoyed it. Hope there's another season. I really love the intro song. There's something about that version of Edelweiss.

    I thought it sounded like John Herbert from Family Guy.

    Herbert_-_Family_Guy.png

  55. #55
    Registered User Cybsled's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    4,684
    Tuconots
    27
    Binge watched it all. Looking forward for season 2. I can't imagine they would cancel it, since it is getting good critical acclaim and Amazon needs a high profile drama like Netflix has in House of Cards.

  56. #56
    Music Elitist Alex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    6,829
    Tuconots
    39
    I'm three episodes in and I'm not digging it as much as some of you. The Marshall is a ridiculous character.

  57. #57
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    485
    Tuconots
    15
    Spoiler: 
    I hope the marshal sees a film of himself drinking wine from the skull of Jeor Mormont.


    But ya i thought the marshal was by far the worst written/cast/acted on the show. only other one that comes close is maybe frank.
    Last edited by uncognito; 11-28-2015 at 10:02 PM.

  58. #58
    Registered User Bondurant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    La France
    Posts
    2,009
    Tuconots
    25
    Spoiler: 
    If they greenlit a season 2 I bet we'd discover Heisenberg, in an attempt to create a nuclear bomb / reactor for the Germans, created instead some device that can allow transdimensional travel or something.

    I liked it, I felt the ending was thought provoking
    Spoiler: 
    haha, the Resistance is working for Hitler
    and nicely done. On the other hand the show has sometimes bad pacing (too slow) and some characters are dumb / useless like that Marshall out of fucking nowhere.

  59. #59
    Registered User Cybsled's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    4,684
    Tuconots
    27
    Ya, the reveal at the end and the fact the codename is essentially literal was nice

  60. #60
    Registered User Blitz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    1,249
    Tuconots
    -1
    Loved it, even with some of the hokey moments I would strongly recommend it. The "world building" is intriguing, and the universe is fantastic.

    Some questions for people who have read the book:
    Spoiler: 
    Director said he had to obviously add characters for the tv show, and numerous other engines to make it work. Without getting into too much detail, did the first season essentially cover the majority of the whole book? Debating on reading the book before a season 2, yet if there is still some major secrets that they haven't covered, I'd just rather wait and have it be covered while watching the series. Kinda getting a vibe from people who have seen both that it essentially covered the majority of source material they had from the book and future seasons would have to be created on the go.

  61. #61
    Registered User ToeMissile's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    443
    Tuconots
    1
    I'm up to Ep 10 and really enjoying the show so far. The resistance being the weakest/least entertaining of the 'factions'.

  62. #62
    Registered User Barab's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    343
    Tuconots
    1
    No idea how they do a sequel to this

  63. #63
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Montreal
    Posts
    1,257
    Tuconots
    10
    Anyone know where I can watch this, since it's not available in Canada.

    Not really familiar with a good place to get tv shows since I never have to do it.

    First time a tv show I want to watch is actually unavailable here.

  64. #64
    Feint, Slash, Stab, Bash Sulrn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    The Eternal Duel
    Posts
    1,844
    Tuconots
    -40
    Quote Originally Posted by Valderen View Post
    Anyone know where I can watch this, since it's not available in Canada.

    Not really familiar with a good place to get tv shows since I never have to do it.

    First time a tv show I want to watch is actually unavailable here.
    Just to clarify, you're saying Amazon Prime has regionally restricted you from watching a Prime original series?

    [edit]

    I learned something new today. Wow. Fuck that business decision.

    Anyway: Relevant
    Last edited by Sulrn; 12-02-2015 at 12:16 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sulrn View Post
    Johdi
    Quote Originally Posted by I'm Rich Bitch View Post
    This election is only about skin color and its effects in the United States. Nothing else.

  65. #65
    Registered User Cybsled's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    4,684
    Tuconots
    27
    Quote Originally Posted by Blitz View Post
    Loved it, even with some of the hokey moments I would strongly recommend it. The "world building" is intriguing, and the universe is fantastic.

    Some questions for people who have read the book:
    Spoiler: 
    Director said he had to obviously add characters for the tv show, and numerous other engines to make it work. Without getting into too much detail, did the first season essentially cover the majority of the whole book? Debating on reading the book before a season 2, yet if there is still some major secrets that they haven't covered, I'd just rather wait and have it be covered while watching the series. Kinda getting a vibe from people who have seen both that it essentially covered the majority of source material they had from the book and future seasons would have to be created on the go.
    Well

    Spoiler: 
    Yes and no. The 1st season kind of covered some mysteries, but it still hasn't revealed the Grasshopper mystery (which is touches on) and ultimately who is producing the films (in the book, it is a novel...but since television is a visual medium, it makes sense to do it as film reels vs. a book). Ultimately that is the big mystery in the book. At the end, the Trade Minister visits/has a vision of our version of 1960s America, which does happen in the book as well. However, the show hasn't really gone into the why/how yet.


    Ultimately, there is a fuckton of world building you can mine in a show like this.

  66. #66
    Feint, Slash, Stab, Bash Sulrn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    The Eternal Duel
    Posts
    1,844
    Tuconots
    -40
    Finished this last night and definitely enjoyed it and will probably pick up the book as a result when I finish with my current stack. Only issue I had was the events of episode 9/10 seemed pretty telegraphed or drama tropic even to the point that the closing scene I was thinking
    Spoiler: 
    'It's about time, Hiro."
    Last edited by Sulrn; 12-05-2015 at 06:04 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sulrn View Post
    Johdi
    Quote Originally Posted by I'm Rich Bitch View Post
    This election is only about skin color and its effects in the United States. Nothing else.

  67. #67
    Adrenaline Junky TJT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Austin
    Posts
    2,250
    Tuconots
    10
    Really enjoying this.

    My only complaint is that the resistance subplot is so utterly boring. The Japanese and Nazi power struggles are so much more interesting than anything our protagonists do.
    "Let go your earthly tether. Enter the void. Empty, and become wind."
    -Zaheer
    B.Net: TJT#1179

  68. #68
    Feint, Slash, Stab, Bash Sulrn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    The Eternal Duel
    Posts
    1,844
    Tuconots
    -40
    The two are one in the same if you pretend the resistance didn't exist.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sulrn View Post
    Johdi
    Quote Originally Posted by I'm Rich Bitch View Post
    This election is only about skin color and its effects in the United States. Nothing else.

  69. #69
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    230
    Tuconots
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Cybsled View Post
    Spoiler: 
    At the end, the Trade Minister visits/has a vision of our version of 1960s America, which does happen in the book as well.

    This part gave me some serious chills when i first read the book about 20 years ago. Haven't watched the show yet, but i am surprised it took so long to adapt it to film/tv, it's one of the finest PKD novels.

    One thing about PKD, i think his forte was writing short stories. In case you haven't read any of those, you should definitely pick a collection. Some of the best sci-fi ever written. Stories like "Precious Artifact", "The Faith of our Fathers", "Second Variety" etc. are amazing. There is enough material and inspiration there to expound to a number of movies - hell, i even think that The Matrix Trilogy is heavily inspired from a '53 story of his ("Adjustment Team").

  70. #70
    Registered User Caliane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    6,501
    Tuconots
    18
    Quote Originally Posted by Cybsled View Post
    Well

    Spoiler: 
    Yes and no. The 1st season kind of covered some mysteries, but it still hasn't revealed the Grasshopper mystery (which is touches on) and ultimately who is producing the films (in the book, it is a novel...but since television is a visual medium, it makes sense to do it as film reels vs. a book). Ultimately that is the big mystery in the book. At the end, the Trade Minister visits/has a vision of our version of 1960s America, which does happen in the book as well. However, the show hasn't really gone into the why/how yet.


    Ultimately, there is a fuckton of world building you can mine in a show like this.
    Spoiler: 

    how does it work as a novel? like, in this series, it makes sense where a film is clearly not just a work of fiction. I suppose its due to personal connections, like Frank seeing himself in that one tape? do people believe the novels are more then some whatif?

  71. #71
    Registered User Cybsled's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    4,684
    Tuconots
    27
    Spoiler: 
    It is more or less the same, although in the book the alternate reality portrayed isn't ours (in the book, it is basically an alternate history where Britain won WW2 and basically renewed the British Empire). It was changed to films in the show because TV is a visual medium and visual representations of the work are better, whereas a book within a book fits the confines of a novel better.

  72. #72
    Registered User Xenrauk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    408
    Tuconots
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by Valderen View Post
    Anyone know where I can watch this, since it's not available in Canada.

    Not really familiar with a good place to get tv shows since I never have to do it.

    First time a tv show I want to watch is actually unavailable here.
    Stream for free shows.

    Caution there's a lot of external links on that site, sometimes a "mal" link will show up, just click on the episode link and then the watch video link of whichever domain, streamin.to vidto.me bestreams.net are usually fine and fast.

    Project Free TV - The Man in the High Castle
    Last edited by Xenrauk; 12-10-2015 at 10:22 PM.

  73. #73
    I WILL BE YOUR DOOM Utnayan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    5,463
    Tuconots
    32
    Can someone explain the ending to me? Jesus. I was almost pissed off.

    Spoiler: 
    From what I can gather, some guy can just jump between two alternate timelines whenever they want? And my guess the Japanese guy is the one bringing the films back through to the other timeline where the Nazi's and Japs are in control of the world, but why, no one knows. My wife and I watched the entire season, and liked it, right up until that point where we were both looking at each other saying, "Really?" About the only way I see them taking this is you have a couple people with special abilities to hop between alternate timelines and they are each trying to win a timeline war, in season 2-whatever..

  74. #74
    Registered User Cybsled's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    4,684
    Tuconots
    27
    Not quite

    Spoiler: 
    If you look at the guy's expression, it is pretty clear he is surprised by what he sees. But some of the films in circulation clearly show our version of history, so logically he isn't the person providing the films into the show's main timeline.

    That being said, obviously whoever is providing the films does have access to multiple timelines

  75. #75
    HE A GOOD BOY Iannis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Jack's Wasted Life
    Posts
    15,187
    Tuconots
    67
    I don't remember the book having that sort of twist in it.

    Spoiler: 
    What I remember is that it was one of the most mystical and least sciency PKD works. The Japanese minister does have a vision of some alternate universe in which the axis lost, and everyone in the book feels somehow out of place. But it's not any human agent doing anything with heisenberg magic, it's the I-Ching (a book of prophecy) which wrote the novel. There's even a little bit of fourth-wall breaking in that in the final pages, everyone realizes that they're in a book being written BY a book and that there is nothing real about reality. This is all just a horrible dream. A horrible dream that they have to live in anyway.

    Which sounds a little bit like jibberish to us, and a cop out. But if you consider when the book was written and the tone of the time it isn't at all. It's basically perfect.

    That's why I said last time that I'm not sure how you can possibly do an adaptation of Man in the High Castle without the I-Ching. That book is essential to everything, it pins the entire story. It is the entire story. The story has nothing to do with Hitler, it's got nothing to do with the Jap, it's got nothing to do with the Resistance. The story is about the underpinnings of reality itself -- and fascist america is nothing but a device. That question has been answered -- you replace the I-Ching with trans-dimensional agents.

    I guess that works and is a fair, if fairly unimaginative, contemporary adaptation of the idea.

    The problem is that it allows for escape. There is no escape from the High Castle. That is both significantly depressing and (since it's only a book about what never happened) ultimately uplifting. More uplifting than rescuing a few resistance fighters can ever be. PKD was going for the big game.
    Last edited by Iannis; 12-18-2015 at 04:19 AM.

  76. #76

  77. #77
    Registered User Caliane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    6,501
    Tuconots
    18
    Quote Originally Posted by Iannis View Post
    I don't remember the book having that sort of twist in it.

    Spoiler: 
    What I remember is that it was one of the most mystical and least sciency PKD works. The Japanese minister does have a vision of some alternate universe in which the axis lost, and everyone in the book feels somehow out of place. But it's not any human agent doing anything with heisenberg magic, it's the I-Ching (a book of prophecy) which wrote the novel. There's even a little bit of fourth-wall breaking in that in the final pages, everyone realizes that they're in a book being written BY a book and that there is nothing real about reality. This is all just a horrible dream. A horrible dream that they have to live in anyway.

    Which sounds a little bit like jibberish to us, and a cop out. But if you consider when the book was written and the tone of the time it isn't at all. It's basically perfect.

    That's why I said last time that I'm not sure how you can possibly do an adaptation of Man in the High Castle without the I-Ching. That book is essential to everything, it pins the entire story. It is the entire story. The story has nothing to do with Hitler, it's got nothing to do with the Jap, it's got nothing to do with the Resistance. The story is about the underpinnings of reality itself -- and fascist america is nothing but a device. That question has been answered -- you replace the I-Ching with trans-dimensional agents.

    I guess that works and is a fair, if fairly unimaginative, contemporary adaptation of the idea.

    The problem is that it allows for escape. There is no escape from the High Castle. That is both significantly depressing and (since it's only a book about what never happened) ultimately uplifting. More uplifting than rescuing a few resistance fighters can ever be. PKD was going for the big game.
    Meta-Messages - Grant Morrison Meets Animal Man - Comics Should Be Good! @ Comic Book ResourcesComics Should Be Good! @ Comic Book Resources

  78. #78
    Registered User Azrayne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Fort Kickass
    Posts
    1,472
    Tuconots
    12
    Just finished, I enjoyed the series overall, but two things tripped me out:

    Spoiler: 
    1 - Joe says that he watched the first film, the one they took into the neutral zone, and that when he watched it he saw something different to what Julianna saw when she watched it. She saw Nazi Germany being torn down, but he said he saw something about Stalin still being alive in the 50's iirc. So they watched the same reel of film but saw two separate things on it?

    2 - What the fuck was with Tagomi randomly hopping from one universe to the next at the end? There was no leadup to it, no mechanism behind it, just he sits down and bam, it happens.

    On a story level, this kind of bugged me, since I assumed both he and the inspector were going to die, or at least meet a bad end of some sort (when the inspector met him and spoke about "having to meet their responsibilities" or somesuch). Instead the inspector is saved from killing himself at literally the last moment, and Tagomi sits down and randomly pops into another universe.

    Tbh I agree that the whole "resistance" storyline was the weakest part of the show. None of the characters involved were especially interesting, or even sympathetic, the only thing that carried it along was the mystery of the film reels, and we never get a satisfactory answer to where they come from, what they are and how they work (although having the resistance work for Hitler as the literal "man in the high castle" was a nice touch). The whole trip to the neutral zone and all the stuff that happened there was boring as hell. The political stuff between Japan and the Nazi's, and the internal drama in the two factions, was so much more interesting, but it only really reached it's potential in the latter third of the series.

    IMO a series with the same alt-historical premise, but without the sci-fi/mystery element, and focused on the political stuff via characters like Tagomi and Smith (I was bummed out that we never saw the subplot with his son play out, that would have been really interesting), would have been infinitely better.

    As for the technology given to the Japanese, I figured it was obviously the h-bomb, given that it triggered a search for uranium and the discussion Tagomi had where he was pointing out that having it would equalize the factions, and that using it would kill millions.
    " I wonder if you are destined to be forgotten. Will your life fade in the shadow of greater beings?"

  79. #79
    Registered User Cybsled's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    4,684
    Tuconots
    27
    Spoiler: 


    1) Joe and Julianna both had film reels. Joe mentioned his was Soviet Propaganda films from the 50s.

    2) That is the mystery for next season!


  80. #80
    Registered User Azrayne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Fort Kickass
    Posts
    1,472
    Tuconots
    12
    Spoiler: 
    Oh yeah, I forgot about #1 - thought it was the same reel for some reason.

    I suspect s2 is going to venture into batshit crazy territory, sadly. I'd prefer more Japanese Empire v. Nazi Reich shenanigans.

    Just a side note, but I loved the character of the antique salesman, especially the dinner scene and the way he rages out and fucks over the lawyer afterwards.
    Last edited by Azrayne; 12-20-2015 at 05:54 AM.
    " I wonder if you are destined to be forgotten. Will your life fade in the shadow of greater beings?"

  81. #81
    #barnsohard Intrinsic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    5,659
    Tuconots
    52
    Spoiler: 
    Really? He was such an awkward try hard. They were clearly reaching out for him as expert on American culture and wanting someone to help them be a little 'bad.' But he was terrible at reading the room and their insinuations. I'll put half the blame on them for thinking he'd be in too that, but the dude was just weird and then lashed out at them b/c he felt he was being made fun of.
    Pussy bitch Draegan sold us out to MMORPG.com

    Exodus underway to Rererolled - A Gaming Community

    Oh and sorta fuck Tuco too.

  82. #82
    Registered User Azrayne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Fort Kickass
    Posts
    1,472
    Tuconots
    12
    Spoiler: 
    Ok let me rephrase that - I found watching his storyline very interesting. The guy himself was a loser, sure, but I think that subplot and all the interactions it contained said a lot about the way different cultures react, especially in a colonial/imperial setting. The way the people in the conquered culture imitates the conquerors, assuming them to be superior, and the way people in the conquering culture fetishize and commodify the culture they conquer (look at the way the British treated their colonies). I thought it was a really nice touch from a worldbuilding perspective.

    They were clearly reaching out for him as expert on American culture and wanting someone to help them be a little 'bad.'
    I guess I saw it slightly differently. They were definitely trying to be a little rebellious (the "negro music" and whatnot) and he wasn't willing to play along because as a white guy he couldn't afford to be seen indulging in anything "degenerate," (although he did give her the flapper shoes to suck up to them) or perhaps was trying to maintain a cultured image, but I got the impression the whole point of the exercise was just an opportunity for them to examine him up close and grill him about American culture. He completely missed the point and thought they'd invited him as a social equal, because he was desperate for Japanese approval and missed all the social cues and hints (like them inviting him and nobody else, and having the dinner so early). This all went over his head until they refused to make a followup dinner and hustled him to the door (and more or less outright stated that they just wanted to examine him and quiz him), at which point he finally realized they were treating him exactly like the artifacts they collect - as something interesting and exotic to examine, but not a social equal, or really any kind of equal. I don't think they were trying to mock him as such - you don't mock an animal in a zoo. I think that's closest to how they saw him (and probably reflected how most Japanese saw the Americans - like with the Prince at his speech "or as you say in America, "howdy!"") A pet American - able to let them indulge in their fetish but inherently not on the same level as the Japanese. He, on the other hand, took the Japanese custom he received as a sign of their acceptance, and tried to enforce that impression by adopting their behavior.

    So yeah it was awkward and cringe-worthy, but I think it made a lot of really interesting points. It was more interesting than any of the resistance crap anyway.

    That's the other thing I found weird. The Nazi's got really shitty at Joe for helping a member of the West Coast resistance, but she was a white woman in a resistance group fighting to free primarily white people from the rule of the Asian Japanese. I get that they had a tentative truce with Japan and had granted them "honorary aryan" status, but it seems like they would be siding more with the whites on the West Coast and less with their non-white frenemies. I guess the whole film mystery complicates it a bit, but when it comes to the resistance they talk like those fighting against the Nazis and those fighting against the Japanese are equally bad, when I would have thought the Nazis would be all for weakening the Japanese
    Last edited by Azrayne; 12-20-2015 at 08:43 AM.
    " I wonder if you are destined to be forgotten. Will your life fade in the shadow of greater beings?"

  83. #83
    #barnsohard Intrinsic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    5,659
    Tuconots
    52
    Yeah I can agree with all that. Makes sense now
    Pussy bitch Draegan sold us out to MMORPG.com

    Exodus underway to Rererolled - A Gaming Community

    Oh and sorta fuck Tuco too.

  84. #84
    Registered User Bondurant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    La France
    Posts
    2,009
    Tuconots
    25

  85. #85
    Registered User Caliane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    6,501
    Tuconots
    18
    Quote Originally Posted by Iannis View Post
    I don't remember the book having that sort of twist in it.

    Spoiler: 
    What I remember is that it was one of the most mystical and least sciency PKD works. The Japanese minister does have a vision of some alternate universe in which the axis lost, and everyone in the book feels somehow out of place. But it's not any human agent doing anything with heisenberg magic, it's the I-Ching (a book of prophecy) which wrote the novel. There's even a little bit of fourth-wall breaking in that in the final pages, everyone realizes that they're in a book being written BY a book and that there is nothing real about reality. This is all just a horrible dream. A horrible dream that they have to live in anyway.

    Which sounds a little bit like jibberish to us, and a cop out. But if you consider when the book was written and the tone of the time it isn't at all. It's basically perfect.

    That's why I said last time that I'm not sure how you can possibly do an adaptation of Man in the High Castle without the I-Ching. That book is essential to everything, it pins the entire story. It is the entire story. The story has nothing to do with Hitler, it's got nothing to do with the Jap, it's got nothing to do with the Resistance. The story is about the underpinnings of reality itself -- and fascist america is nothing but a device. That question has been answered -- you replace the I-Ching with trans-dimensional agents.

    I guess that works and is a fair, if fairly unimaginative, contemporary adaptation of the idea.

    The problem is that it allows for escape. There is no escape from the High Castle. That is both significantly depressing and (since it's only a book about what never happened) ultimately uplifting. More uplifting than rescuing a few resistance fighters can ever be. PKD was going for the big game.
    Spoiler: 
    More on this a bit. Really totally changes the way I view it. And makes the novel vs film element a much larger distinction. Like, watching the show, never having read the book, I took this much more literally. Fringe, Sliders, Bioshock infinate, etc. Fringe especially, with Walter viewing the other world. This kindof goes back to my first post, where I was questioning the film vs book aspect. FILMS can't be faked, really. A film of an alternate world would require an obscene amount of resources to create, (particularly in that time period). so seeing these films would be fully transformative, not just subversive and inspirational. A novel would just be subversive and inspirational. The likes of which existed always. Mickey mouse fighting hitler, Superman fighting hitler. So unless the books got super personal, like the Never ending Story, you right now Bastion reading this book are part of the Never ending story, a book would be prophetic possibly, but just imagination still. Not something for a resistance to really make such a big deal over, or anything. Of course for the show, the resistance is of course seemingly incompetent... dying left and right. not DOING anything, but picking up and transferring films to themselves..

  86. #86
    Coat-hanger Dick Khane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    9,112
    Tuconots
    84
    Just started watching this show. 3 episodes in and damn, this is really well done.

    So far there has been a ton of great acting, great dialogue and a really compelling story.

  87. #87
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    12,682
    Tuconots
    54
    This will probably be on my "to watch" after the new season of Orange is the new Black. Khane can you update your opinion after you get through the show? Reviews seem mixed on it.

  88. #88
    Coat-hanger Dick Khane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    9,112
    Tuconots
    84
    Will do. But the second episode of this show is one of the most harrowing episodes of TV I've ever watched.

    There are plenty of shows that kind of fuck with your head and most of them do it with absolute shock about how fucked up they want to make the characters seem. That episode of this show left me feeling that way but not because of how shocking or crazy it was but more because they made me feel like that's exactly how people who are put in that kind of situation react every single day. Things we never really see. The last 5 minutes were seriously fucked up.

  89. #89
    Coat-hanger Dick Khane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    9,112
    Tuconots
    84
    Just finished this.

    Not sure what to make of how it ended. Is there a second season of this in the works?

  90. #90
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    12,682
    Tuconots
    54
    I believe there is and most people said it felt like S1 was just a build up to S2

  91. #91
    Coat-hanger Dick Khane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    9,112
    Tuconots
    84
    It would have to be I'm assuming.

    It was definitely good but there was a lot of build and you're left hanging after episode 10.

  92. #92
    Registered User Slaythe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Minneapolis, MN
    Posts
    3,169
    Tuconots
    -1
    It's worth watching. The setting is really well thought out and intriguing. My biggest complaint was that I thought all the side characters were infinitely more interesting than the three main ones, but that didn't stop me from enjoying it.

  93. #93
    Registered User Cybsled's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    4,684
    Tuconots
    27

  94. #94
    Registered User dangler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    228
    Tuconots
    -21
    garbage show in an interesting setting. will not watch s2

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •