The original Dungeon Defenders was fun for a while, but then started to drag. There were serious Mudflation issues with the loot design.
"Dungeon Defenders II is an Action Tower Defense game with classic role playing elements like loot and leveling. The Old Onesí armies have invaded and itís up to you and your friends to push them back. Level up a team of heroes and build the ultimate defense on your quest to save Etheria."
I have been watching this game on Steam and it is $19.99 early access right now. Has anyone played it? Can anyone give a review/opinion?
The original Dungeon Defenders was fun for a while, but then started to drag. There were serious Mudflation issues with the loot design.
That and it got hacked pretty good. So being level 100 and having to work for your gear really didn't mean much...
Although it's the only game recently I got totally addicted too for a while. Burned hot and fast though, but was well worth it for the 100 hours I dumped into it.
I play II, it's a decent little game but I believe it suffers from some of the same problems as the first and some new problems as well.
DD1 was one of my favorite games though, my hours played in that is embarrassing MMO level high If the second one stays priced at 15-20$ it will still be worth it, but this company has just gone in circles I think they had an amazing idea with DD1 and then with 2 first it was a shitty MOBA, now they are trying to reinvent things with DD2. All they really needed to do was make new characters, new towers, better/new maps, fix the "end game", etc. I mean it will never be LOL or whatever but they could have had another huge success.
Anyway I have not played since the last patch so some of this may be off but general opinions:
-Maps are way way better. Not only do they make more sense and for the most part seem to have better pathing aside from some odd bu(pre-alpha) they are just so much more interactive and fun. There are levels you call pull/shoot to release waves of water/gas/fire that takes out entire waves of enemies. The gates have little pink lines showing the path monsters will take to the "crystal". There are "mini crystals", which you do not have to defend but if you don't you make things harder. Like a drawbridge lever for instance that if you let fall now makes mobs spawn through the bridge where they didn't before.
-Generally speaking towers and heroes are the same, with some minor changes that won't be too foreign. They did seem to get rid of tower range as a stat which create some problems. These new spear guys can pretty much outrange any level 1 tower causing some annoying problems early on. Upgraded towers get buffed just like before, increasing their range so it's less of a problem, but can still pose a threat if the little guys form a wall protecting them(think orcs in front of archers allowing archers to shoot).
-Towers now have some combo crap. So if you freeze a mob with cold tower, then launch it up with earth tower, it breaks on land like Terminator 2 and liquid nitrogen. There are other combo's as well. Makes using different heroes and working as a team a bit better
-You seem to have a huge excess of defensive units now. Not sure if this is an "alpha" thing that will change or what. But the current focus seems to be on tower upgrades over tower numbers and good build locations.
-They changed stats recently, but I have not had a chance to really dig in at it. Basically every item has a primary stat and two secondary stats, blah blah. I'm sure they will change it again before launch but it seems like they are trying to move away from the everyone gets its all crap, not sure I agree but this is one of those "how much power should I have at high level" conversations that mucks up MMO threads too
-The new item upgrade system sucks. I hope they change it. Instead of just mana you need gold, which you get by selling items(just like you used to get from mana) BUT you also need....items. So now you have to jump through hoops and do all sorts of strange shit to upgrade instead of just selling items and using mana. All they did was add a level of obfuscation without making the system interesting, different, or more challenging.
-New enemies, good variation and seems fun so far. No complaints
So yea, they need to improve a few things but overall it's fun...it's DD!
Interesting that they give you more tower numbers, but still focus on tower upgrades. That's exactly what DD1 is, due to the build limits. You can't scatter towers everywhere. Or are they trying to go more the traditional tower defense, where you build towers along the entire walk path of the mobs?
I hope that they keep improving, and keep listening to the community, because it really could be another great game.
They are still adjusting the tower numbers so I wouldn't be surprised if they move things around a little. There are "specs" now too, like really simplified skill trees from an MMO. So for instance my wizard now has a 40% chance to shoot a second fireball for 70% dmg each shot. The items have more variation now it seems as well, things like +3.5% experience from mobs kill by hero/tower, +1.45% dmg from fireball towers, +7% earth tower AE splash, etc.
You can also hit shift during the waves and see the actual range of your towers, neat feature. Items also seem character dependent though I'm not positive if that's true or will stay.
Overall I loved DD1 and it really seems like they are trying hard to get DD2 on the right track and the price point is low enough that if you have any interest in this genre or the first one you really can't go wrong. I personally thought the first one was fantastic aside from the shitty end game. The gameplay itself was never bad. So if they can just make the same old fun game I'm in.
It's too bad they threw out the PvP portion.
Last edited by Kriptini; 01-01-2015 at 01:12 AM.
Only issue I had with DD and trendy was their horrible mudflation abuse, and the fact that you'd grind for a week to boost your shit only to have them release a patch where the trash drops blow your shit away.
Same. I was part of the first crowd to get into the 20's on survival and had an almost complete set of near capped gear and quit when they made gear 4x better than what I had attainable with little to no comparable effort.
Bought it day 1 but have yet to install due to data cap. Taking my box to the hotel on the 4th when I'm in town to download all my steam sale shit and hoping to gove it a try once we swap to Hughes net and I have free data from midnight to 5am. Fuck rural living.
I've been playing DD1 at night offline legit from lvl 1 and no mana to upgrade except for what drops and been having a great time as well. Half way through the medium campaign with my apprentice. Thinking about starting over and two boxing with monk and huntress with my 360 controller. Should make it a lot more challenging. Kinda need to sell my +500 level 30 shit though... Too god damn tempting. DD1 really was an amazing game before mudflation got so out of hand.
I both love and hate this game(DD2 and DD1 I guess). I think that post/webblog or whatever about how the studio is fucked is true. It's like a Brad McVision all over again, just in a small game not many people care about.
I just don't get it. TD's, while never maybe the best cash crop, are reasonably successful, especially on iStuff and mobiles. Kingdom Rush, Plants vs. zombies(kinda like td?), etc. Trendy I think really had something here but they continue to just make foolish mistakes and what I would call blind gross oversights in basic concepts of the game. But let's face it, they have virtually no competition in their particular space.
First they blew it with trying to make a MOBA, but whatever that is the past though one could argue they lost almost a year+ of development time. Now on to my current issues, and yes I know it's alpha but input from the devs/community seem completely against certain changes.
-The current upgrade system is terrible. Think old school EQ clicking. I won't rag on too badly because I really think this one might change but it shows you the type of ideas and themes they create from scratch. Even talking about this in a meeting would prove it's a poor choice. Basically they took a slightly strange, inflated, awkward system from the first DD, completely obfuscated it and gave it the possibility to misclick/be lazy and accidentally combine the gear you want to upgrade so it's lost forever.
-Loot. Not sure how to begin on this one. They make loot diablo-ish style. Tons of it but lots of random both quality and desired stats. I've got zero problem with this as it fits the game. But then they give you absolutely no way of filtering it, quickly checking it, or managing it. This was one of the biggest complaints in DD1 and you'd think they would fix it from the ground up. Now it's almost even worse. Everything gets dumped into a giant temp box that you have to manually filter through after each match. At least previously crap was directly turned into mana so you could move along quickly.
-The spec system. I may be alone here but it needs major rehaul. As it stands with the first level increase I will be able to max out all important specs to the point of severe diminishing returns. They really need to switch to a tree type system like MMO's use. Then instead of just being hero/tower spec, you could be fire tower spec, earth tower spec, etc and each one would have a tangible effect on your playstyle and character. Unlike DD1 two apprentices with equal gear could play entirely differently based on spec. Imagine one earth spec apprentice who does lots of AOE but no CC and one frost who can lock enemies down but does little dmg or whatever. Not saying I've created all the trees but it's the idea that's important. This would also help with the toxic player environment of "I have best stats stop building or I troll lose the game or kick you" that we have now. It won't solve it, that kind of shit will always exist but you can join and say, yo im ice spec, it's cool if I build an ice tower in each lane? Not only can it promote teamwork and mutual building, having two apprentices doesn't just devolve into "whomever has best stats build everything other guy fuck off"
-Still to this day there are stats that do absolutely nothing to various towers and abilities. And on top of that it's vague what they do at best. I call it the "hidden power" complex some fucking games have. +1 to str...great what does it do exactly? Well it says "increases power"....by what? how much? You mean the only way I can know if an upgrade is good or fits my playstyle is to be a fucking wiki-forum bandit? You can't just tell me in game this increases tower dps by .01% per point or something? wtf? I'm getting to the point where I'll refuse to play a game where the basic stats and abilities don't tell me what they are. It's like old school EQ up in there.
I agree mostly minor complaints and for what they claim will be F2P....I guess I should just shut the fuck up Personally I think they are better off with the 15-25$ charge to buy the game than F2P. They claim no items that affect gameplay so now it's all skins and crap for money. I can't imagine many people will want those(though I've been wrong before) and because it's F2P they sorta gimp their ability to charge 5$ for expansions. And most of their DD1 expansions were well worth 5-10$ considering the hours I got out of them
Sad part is that I still like the game. I have some kind of unfounded love for TD games and I want DD to be good so bad. I guess I understand when people get all passionate about Pantheon or EQ7 or whatever now....But trendy seems unwilling to even negotiate or budge on some of the most basic concepts and problems with the game that it just baffles me. Ohh well, they claim it's still alpha so I'll stick with it until release or a reasonable competitor comes along. Speaking of, does anyone know of a game even remotely similar that's decent? If I had any time for this I would totally kickerstarter it if I knew good programmers or artists. I manage bigger crap all day long and I'm pretty sure you could build out a 1-2 map "demo" in like 6 months with a few people on it and crappy/basic artwork. Start kickstarter small then if it gains traction step it up or something.
Did they post something recently? Where is this coming from? Makes me sad, because DD1, even though I came late to the party, was the first game that I had gotten really into. Sunk 100 hours into it very quickly, then quit, but it was a great 100 hours.
Until they build a real inventory system that includes the ability to filter I will never play one of these again. It's so fucking simple too since all you are doing is filtering a database of numbers. I can't imagine why this has never been fun. Spending more time looking at every single item than you do playing the game isn't fun, it's boring as fuck.
Pretty much yea. No, I guess they didn't say anything in particular. It's just that they continue to ignore these glaring problems and doing god knows what. They did this with DD1 and I always just assumed they were spending time and effort to fix things for DD2 and start over right. I also didn't mind that approach since I paid 15$ for DD1 and didn't feel ripped off at all.
But how do you take a game like DD1, which was successful, at least in some sense of the word, and completely fuck the remake so badly. It's like the recreated DD1 but didn't fix ANY of the major issues people had with the game. You are completely correct, it's not a technical limitation to filter/sort loot. Which leaves me to only one possible belief, they genuinely do not like that idea and it's not part of the vision(TM). You can see this with a number of different minor features they continue to ram down people's throats despite the obvious and public complaint against them.
Yet at the same time they really did improve on the game in some aspects. The idea of subcores, environmental traps that make huge differences in lanes for people who are active players,better mobs and gameplay...yet they left all the faults. Just added new flare.
I'm not (overly) hating on them. Like I said, I love the game and I'm a huge TD fan, wish there was more competition in this field because the right game could destroy trendy or at least force them to adapt. But after the article and the continuous "dev meetings" that address none of the primary concerns, I'm starting to think it's "Brad Syndrome" at the upper levels.
I mean, after looting 75 items from a map and checking each one for possible upgrade as stated above, there isn't even a sell all button. I've got to click 50 times.
Anyway, I play an apprentice if anyone is still interested in DD2. They release patches, in theory, monthly and I'm always happy to come back and give it another go.
I played DD1 at launch, loved it, but ya it got out of hand way fast. WoW gave you a year minimum before they released content that made your gear worthless. DD1 felt like it was monthly. I have not played DD2 yet since I heard it going free to play? If they came out with a game like DD1 before any DLC then I will play until it gets out of hand again. Which I can imagine will.
It is interesting to hear you all talk about how you loved DD1 but burned out so quickly. That is pretty much exactly how I experienced it as well. Great game, great concept, but not quite fully realized yet. I think they have a good idea though, and I will probably give the second game a go-round at some point just on principal and just to support a creative dev. Plus, it is true to say that I really did have fun with the first game, however brief.
The problem, at it's very core, is they don't want to do it. They have no come out 100% to say they but they've hinted at it a number of times. That it would cheapen the experience or whatever. Which is why I am a bit harsh, it's the Brad Vision(TM) all over again in a new game/genre. They argue that loot is a staple of the game and that having these types of filters would trivialize things or take the fun out of it. I hope I'm wrong, I hope they change their mind.
The mudflation in DD1 was pretty bad, no denying that. Funny part it that it didn't bother me. They eventually reached some pretty hard maps which were extremely tough to beat on survival mode even with a few max heroes in awesome gear. I mean it was possible to eventually get there, but they did finally level out the difficulty and items(after they were mudflated).
Another core problem to this game is the MOBA toxicity that happens in these types of games. It's co-op, and the more people you have(up to 4) the better things are because you get more loot/xp/etc, but unless you know people it's just not fun to play in pugs. You have much more limited mana in this game(so DU is less of a problem) so when you get some pug building shit willy nilly instead of upgrading you can actually lose. That and people fight and bitch about who's got +1% better stats. At least you can't kick or just sell people's towers which used to be a problem in DD1. I'm not really sure there is a fix for this sadly. There are a bunch of things you can do to mitigate it but ultimately it's not a pug friendly co-op game. You've got to find a little community and get involved. Would be nice if they added guilds or something
According to the Steam page, the Dev team just got back from PAX, and there is an updates in the works? Do we hold out hope for some nice changes? Have they given any previews?
Do Early Access games ever go on sale? I'm on the fence on this, and just waiting for a great patch, or some push to sway me one way or another.
Haha, could be right! Just picked this up last night. Just getting into game now.
Not sure if my account name is needed, or my character name is needed to run some maps. Decided to roll up Apprentice, since they were the black sheep of DD1, I was hoping they would be ok this time around. Monk was my main before, but figured they were nerfed to hell and back... or should have been.
Edit: Played it 2 hours, and already finding some stuff that's annoying as shit.
I haven't seen a way to easily add steam friends. Meet a player that isn't stupid, I would like to friend them. Can't do it easily. All manual by asking what their steam ID would be.
Campaign mode pushing me into the first map over and over regardless of how many times I've beat it, or my level? That's stupid. Why is it not putting people into a Tavern first, so the maps can be selected there?
Just a couple of things I've noticed. It's annoying. Although probably keep playing just to do it. lol
Last edited by Crone; 02-08-2015 at 12:12 AM.
So yea, they did release a big new patch. I won't post the notes as you can go to the forums of DD2 to read them but in general they continue to fucking miss the target and point badly.
Apprentice is still the black sheep. They are plenty viable once you get good end game gear, but even with that end game gear, put the exact same items on a squire and you are instantly almost twice as strong. This was the case in DD1 as well. They justify it with some crazy theoretical math about the apprentice vs. squire under perfect conditions but in reality that is almost never the case in a real map and real game.
-The bug with campaign mode is listed as a known bug, you have to hit some strange combination of buttons to auto advance to the next stage. I won't rag on them too hard as it is alpha and they admit it's a bug.
-Huge patch, big deal, lots of balance changes, etc. Still absolutely NO inventory/loot management options. And the gem of this, which I've already bitched about in this thread, is that even if they are holding their firm stance on the "no filtering" option, they still didn't give us a button to sell all of the items in the "temporary bag". So you have to manually click on each item to sell it. Sure, they temp bag will auto sell after 1-2 days, but ohh wait, by then it's got a 1000 items in it and it's not only impossible to scan through for new shit that may be good because of lag and pure inventory count, once it's full shit disappears instead of selling the oldest item or whatever. So you actually can lose loot
-Still no or little transparency on what stats do. Gotta love their forums too, same old bullshit about "mystery of the game" or "its on the forums" or even better "gives me the hardcore players something to theory-craft"....EQ one anyone? Modern games that don't fucking tell you what stats do is just fucking stupid. So unless I want to be hardcore(which I sadly kind of admit I am with DD series) I'm not allowed to know what shit does? Really casual friendly, great way to grow your market.
-Still stats that do fucking nothing for any towers. Attack speed, only affects 2 of your towers, power affects 1, health affects all, well unless you are a monk.
-Huntress traps, while having their purpose I can't deny, have such pathetic trigger and effect radius that unless you have the lanes memorized are a challenge to place. Not new user friendly at all. Is there seriously any reason why all class towers have a decent shot arc/spread and the monk auras have a giant land spot but the traps are small? Their DPS is in line(give or take within DD bullshit limits) with everything else...but you need to be a master to place them. It literally makes no sense.
I really get sad about this shit. I would play a TD game of this style like some of you play MMO's if it were just fucking decent. There are literally NO competitors to this game except MAYBE orcs vs. towers/sanctum or whatever it's called and it's not really that close. I would make a competing project and kickstart that bitch if I had any artistic talent. I could probably develop a "shitty graphics" version with a better core gameplay in about 6 months, wtb artists and coders!
So it looks like Trendy pulled the plug on DDE? I had a gift code for full DD1 collection on steam and did a little research and found this
Steam Community :: Group Announcements :: Dungeon Defenders Eternity
Thank you for your support through the release of Dungeon Defenders Eternity. It’s been a humbling experience, one that has highlighted that we need to do better as a studio. The lessons we’ve learned, from greenlighting projects to managing external partners, have been invaluable.
As such, we have discontinued our relationship with Nom Nom Games. At Trendy, we will be producing one more patch, which will remove the playverse login and overlay. (The monster is dead!) This patch will not contain any gameplay modifications or the in-progress rebalance. In the future, you will receive your Hall of Triumphs rewards for owning Dungeon Defenders Eternity automatically in Dungeon Defenders II.
As a thank you for your continued support, we will be giving owners of Dungeon Defenders Eternity a free code for the Dungeon Defenders Collection later this summer. This will be a giftable code, so if you already own the full collection, you will be free to give it to a friend or sell it to a stranger.
We’re also updating the original Dungeon Defenders. For the full details, please head to this post.[http://www.dungeondefenders.com]
The Trendy Team
Update: Steam gave us the all-clear, so we went ahead and sent out the Dungeon Defenders Collection codes. You'll find the code in your Steam Inventory.
I'm almost was going to play this game, but I've recently started a rule.
I don't play games that have "early access" (MMOs don't count because you need to stress the servers)
I don't play pay games with cash shops. I understand its f2p when it comes out, but really getting over the whole micro transaction thing.
Really over this whole F2P thing. Backlog of games is so real that I can afford to be picky now a days.
I'd also say that cash shops aren't inherently bad, as long as they stick to costumes and the like, but I actually checked out DD2 after their last patch and was kind of offended at the stink of cash whoring. One 10 minute game at level 4 ended up with 5 'locked' chests that pop up 'insert cash here' when you click on them. That kind of shit really annoys me.
Yeah that would be a bad rule. Lots of great games have an early access in some form at some point. Grim Dawn, path of Exile, divinity, pillars of eternity, etc, etc
This comes to the PS4 in 2 days.
Shame that they did not make accounts compatible between the PC and PS4... Terrible decision, but I guess the infrastructure probably just would be prohibitively expensive. Debating on whether to get the PS4 or PC version. On the one hand, supposedly Diablo 3 plays wonderfully on consoles, and I basically think of the first dungeon defenders as just a tower defense D3... but on the other hand... They aren't blizzard, so maybe the controls might be fucked.
So... how is the game?
Kind of shitty. X tower gets patched. X tower is now best tower. Build infinite X tower and take a nap. It's kind of like DD1 these days, everything is figured out and the mudflation is retarded. If you enjoyed DD1 post Trans armor it might float your boat for a while but if the ridiculous leaps in power replacing skill, effort, and strategy turned you off you probably wont think much of DD2.
They have still been making pretty significant changes as of late. They drastically changed the stat system on gear and wiped all characters in mid-august. It's clearly still a beta in serious development, so I wouldn't be so quick to describe the game as a failure.
I got my GF into DD1 and more recently we've been playing this. It's good, it lacks depth for now, but some of that is the lack of a gigantic DLC library of maps and content.
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