I just read through the FAQ and the way they word it makes it sound as if they never plan on actually hosting any servers for use. Maybe I read it wrong, but what would be the point otherwise?
EQClassic has been a fairly open secret to those who browse the various everquest threads.
I figured it would be a good time to make a thread about the project as it is nearing completion. (still no release date yet, but they have made huge progress lately)
EQClassic is an everquest emulation project that strives to be the most accurate recreation of classic EQ possible. It's being developed around an actual classic client the Velious boxed set unlike many of the various EQemu projects you may have tried out.
Here is a quote from the senior developer Yeahlight as he can explain what sets this project apart from the rest better than I ever could.
Another interesting explanation here.
If you are even slightly interested in a true classic Everquest experience I'd urge you to check out their website and browse their extensive video library documenting the server development.
They listen to and appreciate any feedback on how classic game mechanics and content were implemented. So feel free to let them know what you think.
Thank you for reading!!
PS. Don't forget to thank the other senior developer Harakiri, people always seem to forget the hard work he does!!
Last edited by Flunklesnarkin; 12-10-2012 at 09:15 PM.
I just read through the FAQ and the way they word it makes it sound as if they never plan on actually hosting any servers for use. Maybe I read it wrong, but what would be the point otherwise?
From FoH:Originally Posted by Yeahlight
But, is it in a browser?
The server code will not be available to the general public though from reading the forums over there.
I'd assume they will only give the code to people they trust to run servers.
It sounds like it will be a decent compromise between having just one server up or having unlimited servers.
I don't like the idea of just one server or hundreds of servers. A handful of servers though sounds about right to me.
"Why is corruption so prevalent on these servers? Those running the servers rarely authored the core work behind them (compare the names of the owners to the names in the revision logs: e.g. http://code.google.com/p/projecteqemu/s ... svn24&r=24), thus there is no earned sense of pride and the overwhelming temptation to betray their communities always supersedes their assumed responsibility of establishing and maintaining integrity. The amount of work these server owners rely upon to offer their services far exceeds their individual contributions, thus they have no control over the software because they do not understand it. This is the difference between EQClassic and EQEmulator."
So the reason why there won't be corruption is because the people running the servers worked on the code, but the people that worked on the code won't be running the servers. Did I get that right?
I don't think you interpreted that correctly. I would urge you to post on the EQclassic and post on the forums and talk to Yeahlight directly. He can probably explain the finer details better than I.
I don't want to start speaking for him but here is a quote.
"Moving into the theoretical realm (as EQClassic does not offer any services at this time), the following are the differences that should matter most to players. I have recently offered ideas on how to maintain server integrity, which include powerless--in every sense of the word--GMs and guides, purely transparent management, inventory scanning, robust event logging / auditing and my vow to never have a personal stake in any EQClassic service. Any time I spend with an EQClassic service would be spent protecting it and making it as enjoyable as possible for others--not betraying it."
Now you are right that somebody could undo the systems and implementations that Yeahlight / Harakiri developed when they ultimately receive the code. Although, I'm sure the community would view that action for what it is, somebody trying to create grey areas where they can let corruption fester.
So if a server is set up with Yeahlights custom tools like event logging scripts, inventory scanning/auditing, and the transparent GM / Guide management tools, I could see corruption being incredibly hard to get away with.
Any server that is run like EQemu projects without those tools, I would view with skepticism.
Hopefully, there will be some sort of code of conduct for potential server operators, and those in charge of holding them to that code won't be a bunch of overzealous dicks.
Still, seems odd to call those who don't code out and then refuse to run the servers themselves.
If Yeahlight is going to provide this kind of thing to people who want to run servers, they at least have a chance to hit the ground running, but cheating in EQ is an institution of its own. Verant/SOE couldn't keep ahead of it, and wouldn't you think they had the tools they'd have needed?
Many people want Yeahlight / Harakiri to run a server.
Maybe they will change their mind later down the road, I can just imagine them wanting to take a break once the server code is finished.
I bet they will still poke around on somebody elses server but that's pure speculation. I'm just thinking of how I'd feel, I wouldn't want to run a server or be a GM, I'd just want to play the game.
I wasn't planning on being a GM, just a dev. Wouldn't want to do both, because nothing annoys me more than watching people trash shit I've worked on for a long period of time. I can imagine they'd feel the same way.
Besides, let's face it -- most coders aren't great customer service people.
People who 6 or 8 or 12 box with automated third party tools / bots had to pay a subscription on each of those accounts.
I'd hope a server set up not for profit would take a firmer stance on such things.
And let's not forget that some people run servers/forums/whatever in order to mess with people, and are easily amused by ways to further mess with said people. =)
I think the idea of a Free* project that actually treats people with respect is probably a pipe dream for the most part. It's tough to care when all you have to look back on is a hobby, where people intentionally troll you and others all day long.
* Free never really is "free". Server operating costs, bandwidth costs, etc add up very quickly, and let's face it, admin work bleeds spare time as well. So, thankless job with no pay so that people can piss and moan about who tagged Gorenaire first... ugh.
Last edited by Alkorin; 12-07-2012 at 08:36 PM.
I'd remain hopeful though, the people who have spent literally years trying to get this server right would probably not turn it into an elaborate troll attempt.
I imagine if by some means a bunch of tools did set up servers, Yeahlight would re-evaluate his decision to host servers because I doubt he wants to see years of his work never come to fruition.
Years of work getting it right in of itself makes me view the project in higher esteem than any EQemu project. Most eqemu projects just start the server and make the player base run around finding all the bugs.
Yeahlight is trying to have all those fixed from day one.
EQClassic is a pipe dream bro. Even if it gets released 5+ years down the road who the fuck is going to want to play a 15+ year old MMoRPG when you can fly around with your jetpack instead?
With the way the current online game market is, there are probably more people willing to play older games like this than you imagine.
Not that I'm not watching a few indie projects but mainstream AAA mmo's hold no interest to me at this point in time.
You'd rather play EQ than fly around with a functional, safe jetpack? You sir... dishonor us all.
Internet pitchfork mobs are the best mobs. Especially when they're butthurt over loot table or balance issues.
In any case, I'm kinda with Flunklesnarkin on this. Newer MMOs never hold my interest for long and I'm always wishing I were playing EQ again.
Hoes love a bro with a jetpack. It's a total poon magnet. I'll be flying around on my jetpack getting handjobs in space by a petite asian women while you are wiping to naggy with 40 people.
Back to the topic, can someone explain to me how this EQ Classic business is better in someway to something like, P99? Maybe I just can't appreciate all the technical server stuff he's excited about.
Some of the things mentioned were Midi music / ambient music in cities / spell bolts / forced spell book meditation / in game message boards/ humans blind at night / the original and Velious UI, etc.
There are too many differences to list entirely here, but they go into great depth on the EQClassic forums.
I'd rather be able to use an unmodified Velious client, at least, and that looks like what Yeahlight and co. are going for. We know what to expect that way and there's none of this fiddling that P99 has to do to make the game more like it was.
Last edited by Kid Sized Coffin; 12-08-2012 at 04:28 PM.
Is there any news on how long its going to be until its released. I know that Yeahlight has other more important shit to do. So do we all. But with that being said I can't look at the forums and just keep waiting its been over 3 1/2 years since ive been following eqclassic project and nothing has been released.
The pace of revisions on the project has increased a lot in recent months though.
They even started handing out "auditor" passes for some people to test out EQClassic content.
Auditor basically being a beta tester where the dev actually listens to the feed back. Most people who "beta test" a game these days don't actually provide any useful feedback to developers. I think he was trying to create a distinction that he wants feedback by using the word auditor instead of "beta tester".
Last edited by Flunklesnarkin; 12-10-2012 at 12:03 AM.
Maybe 2 years ago I would endorse white knighting EQClassic.
But yeah it's been way too long, like most I believe it's vaporware.
I'm not here to change your mind on it being "vaporware" or not.
It has been in development for a long time for sure and you may have grown tired of following the project.
To claim that it's forums or development is dead is wrong though. (which is what calling something vaporware means to me)
There have been steady updates and revisions every month for the past few years and an increased pace in the last 6 months or so.
So while you may have given up on the project because EQClassic decided to take it's time to get it right, many others have not.
I also have the feeling you are not interested in actual facts as much as detracting from the project as a whole because you are invested in EQEmu.
Here are some website traffic statistics.
If anything it shows a steady increase in interest for the project over time.
INB4 unsupported claims of bots >_>
Vaporware means the project is never going to be released, and generally is just a way for a guy to get money while fucking around with EQemu code for shits and giggles.
EQClassic has never taken a single donation.
What's with all the white knighting man? Yeah the project looks good but no one is going to trust Yeahlight until he lets other people try it out too. He's been working on this stuff for too long to not let anyone test it. Showing videos is great but it's not enough.
I'm merely trying to provide accurate information on the project.
The length of its development is a criticism of the project and I can respect people not caring to follow it.
I created this thread to do away with some of the false assumptions out there like this idea that EQClassic is somehow soaking up money from suckers.
He has started to allow people to test content now also with what he calls "auditor passes"
Ah you run the donation handling for the site eh?
I'm sure 100% of the donations went to Autism awareness and since the roadmap shows almost all 95% + we will be seeing EQClassic very soon!
He could prove instantly it's not fake by having a handful of people fuck around with it for like a week and verify it even exist.
Wonder why they won't do that and just allow everyone to keep believing it's vaporware?
I'm not sure whether you are suggesting he should open his code up for others to look at (which I highly doubt he would do) or that he just host a server temporarily to show progress. There does appear to be a forum section on the site where you can request to review code snippets though.
It's something you could ask him on the EQClassic site if you are interested. I could see some obvious downsides with doing a demo on incomplete or inaccurate code though. Namely bad press for anything incomplete and what would it accomplish in the end. Detractors to the project would continue to find reasons to hate.
It doesn't appear that Yeahlight is trying to promote his project to any great extent either because it has taken a long time to get to this stage of development.
As a side note, I did do some research on the term vaporware, an interesting reading here.
"Vaporware is a term in the computer industry that describes a product, typically computer hardware or software, that is announced to the general public but is never actually released nor officially cancelled. Vaporware is also a term sometimes used to describe events that are announced or predicted, never officially cancelled, but never intended to happen. The term also generally applies to a product that is announced months or years before its release, and for which public development details are lacking."
Now you could obviously point to the second part being months or years but there is a key distinction, there are development details posted regularly.
Ultimately, I find the discussion of just what classic EQ entails more entertaining than playing on inaccurate "close enough" classic servers. It may not be so for you, but that is your choice. Your assertion that this project is vaporware is noted and I doubt you posting it a dozen more times will provide any new information to this project. If you have any specific EQ related topics to discuss I'll do what I can to answer your questions. However, if your only purpose in posting here is to be vaguely negative about the project I don't see the point in responding.
Once again, the purpose of this thread is to provide accurate information on the project and discuss just what classic EQ is.
He's quite a pal to talk to when answering questions. Also, given the insane amount of work I've seen put forward... if you're trying to scam people you don't need to do all that.
Even if you were to take the stance that gathering donations for another charity / project was somehow accepting donations for your project, I still wouldn't consider it this an accurate statement " Yeahlight is lining his pockets with suckers money"
Who knows, maybe it was an elaborate attempt to get money for the project, I can't prove otherwise. I just assume there would have been an easier way to get money. Namely just accepting it outright as people were willing to give directly to him and he refused multiple times and still refusing any donations to this day.
I also doubt that he would go out an commit a felony just to acquire money he could have easily received without committing the felony.
My point remains the same though, saying that EQClassic accepted donations is really semantics. EQClassic gathered donations for another charity would be more accurate but the project itself never accepted donations and Yeahlight certainly isn't lining his pockets every chance he gets.
I'm not even really sure why this is a huge issue when many of the other classic EQ emulated servers outright collect money and provide no information back either. It wouldn't affect my opinion of the project if it did decide to start collecting donations either.
When I started this thread I thought we'd be discussing everquest, not whether or not collecting money for charity was considered "accepting donations" for this project lol
There's very little to talk about when it comes to EQClassic itself. I mean, how many years has it been, and... we're still talking about it, not playing it. Frustration is clearly understandable.
Also, if you didn't think someone was going to raise this... come on. You must have known.
Ok off topic but some of the blame is from Sony itself. I mean don't get me wrong it's been 13 years and they still have yet to give us a true classic server. 13 YEARS of people paying monthly subscriptions and tons of merchandise sold. You can't tell me they can't afford 1 fucking server after the 13 years of support from their fanbase. It all boils down to "Sony not wanting to accept that their expansions are shit and verants kicked ass." plain and simple.
They claim that the old code no longer even exists. That's their stance.
Their FTP wet dream doesn't allow for a restored to classic state server. It's a miracle they're still floating Al'Kabor.
This was from the EQ blog last month after Tyen started that rumor about a new classic server in Jan.
"Ok first off it is not. Removing one single quest can kill the entire game. This is proven over and over when you work with the earliest source code over on [something not to be discussed]. Several times I would change or remove an old quest or even just move or remove the NPC from the zone and the zone would crash or not load properly. You have to go back into the code and fix the borken strings and pointers.
The Original EQ code, as far back as we have it is the penultimate spaggetti code, there are litteraly tens of thousands of lines of orphan code that has been piecemealed and changed over the decade by litteraly hundreds of people, miuch of which has no notations or refrences after the 7th or 8th coder has changed that section over the years.
The original code does not exist, even working with the original floppys I got in August of 1998, we still have been unable to put together a working build for Everquest MArch 16th, 1999. What you see coming out of servers like [something else not to be discussed] and others is the result of hundreds of manhours of hand inputing much of the old game back into the code, a very long and expensive process, that stuff just doesnt exist anymore."
It sounds like the code exists, but it would be too much of a hassle for them to go through it and untangle it with no guarantee of it actually being classic. In short, too much effort for their bottom line since EQ is now FTP anyways.
A classic server wouldn't need to be F2P tho. TONS of people would pay to play on a real classic server. I mean jeez, me and the husband had like... 18? accounts running on the last progression server.
It honestly doesn't make sense that they haven't just put in the man hours at this point. It would make them money.
I thought it would be cool if Yeahlight worked something out with SoE to become an official host or something when its all said and done. I'm not sure how SoE would handle the request, but I doubt SoE would even consider it or Yeahlight risk bringing up the topic for fear of legal reprisal especially after the years of work he has put into it.
I don't think the wishes of the classic community factor in very much to SoE's business model.
Last edited by Flunklesnarkin; 12-11-2012 at 11:10 PM.
The community relations guy was actually posting that it doesn't exist via that link, his name is in red. (that quote isn't from him, idk if that quote was from any official SoE guy)
That is if you can believe the community relations guy. That post seemed like the longest one on the thread that might have made sense.
Community Relations guy named Piestro over there.
"This rumor is getting posted all over, some folks seem pretty interested in pushing it. Same folks seem to have a submission form for personal information. Makes me suspicious.
The "original code" is a never going to happen idea, it wouldn't work now anyways. Literally wouldn't work, you couldn't get a client to connect to it or a server to run it."
I'm more inclined to believe "impossible" should be replaced with not practical for their business.
Last edited by Flunklesnarkin; 12-12-2012 at 12:02 AM.
The guy who's quote it was had his post edited by Piestro, so I wasn't sure who worded it. I actually think I've played with the OP before. Iksar monk I want to say? I've been playing this game for way too fucking long.
BTW Flunk, I really appreciate your updates on EQ Classic. I think this release is about the only thing that I would consider putting any serious gaming time into in the next 5 years. Your posts are about the only visibility into it that I have (I don't care to research it myself).
As fun as classic Everquest is, it could never be on Sony's servers, P99 could barely handle 700 people without shitting up the server. If it had an actual real backing, the top end would be such a cluster fuck I don't even want to think about it.
That said - with respect to EQClassic you have to have progression you can't be stuck in velious forever. You should progress through Darkhollow and then restart. SOE missed the boat they should be introducing new progression servers every two years.
They tried to do that Quarm reset server. Never got finished.
To be fair, making the modern connection process and all the pay to play bag&AA stuff would be a lot of work. Not to mention, making other current things in game compatible that I can't even begin to list would just be insane.
It'd make money but I'm not sure if it's completely worth the time and resources they'd have to invest.
I really don't think 10k+ would come around for it.
But why go through all the trouble to make it a server you log into from the current server select? Just hook up all the old shit and run it like it was implemented the first time. They should just do an EQMac style deal with it, but for PC and Mac can come up with the connect hack or people can run dual OS this time. I'd buy the classic trilogy from them again. The "hardest part" of doing all this would just be to get it tied into a station account log in.
We really don't want anything fancy... and the more it works like the old version, the better.
Last edited by Nirgon; 12-12-2012 at 06:13 PM.
Some mods and members over on the EQClassic forums were super mean to me when I tried to talk about PvP.
Looks like Harakiri has been doing some work on Guard pathing in cities.
New Revision here
It looks like he got all the guard patrols going for kaladim a , kaladim b , felwithe a , felwithe b, and Gfay.
Also appears to have added code to where guards can do stuff while on patrol like drop items or say things at certain points in the patrol.
It's fairly misleading to say this project is nearing completion. There's absolutely no indication that we'll be playing this anytime soon.
With that being said, if we see this or the alleged sony project, my life is over.
Fingers crossed this works out, but realistically doubtful and not holding out much hope.
Unless he shows up with a beta date who cares.
The item dropping wasn't suppose to be linked to having a quest active or anything of the sort. I'm sure there are more examples of that kind of behavior out there but that's the one I can think of off the top of my head.
Disclaimer: I haven't played on all the EQEmu servers so I don't know if that's true for all of them, but that is another thing that is frustrating lol. The way the dev's for the various projects have tried to sabotage each other is ridiculous and makes projects not inclined to work together on a collaborative eq project. I'm certain classic eq would have been perfected by now if not for all the shenanigans.
Looks like there has been another revision over there fixing various things. One example being the lifts now function properly. If you played on some emu's and you have to hit the switch three or four times to make it go, it won't be like that on eqclassic ;p
It also looks like they've updated the development roadmap, everything is 99% complete except "quests and scripts" which is 95% complete
Too bad today is the end of the world, stupid Mayans
What would we name it?
Is it going to be with the none widescreen and view the size of a postage stamp? I liked classic EQ but I would much prefer to play Titanium. To me EQ Mac is close to perfect, content up to PoP means you have enough content to last you at least a year, even if you are hardcore, and yet it's not a borked version of the game either with mercs and all the other modern shit. If only there could be a server like that but with actual people playing and no mac pricks.
Titanium client is win
Yeah it really is. If I had the time and knowhow I would make my own EQ Emulator just like EQ Mac but for the PC and without the glitches and lag. And I would pride myself on being 100% legit unlike P99 which made me feel dirty by just logging in. Sadly the only people who seem to have the coding ability to do what is required to run a server like that, are also freaks.
I don't understand why people played with the postage stamp size view. Even on release day they had it so you could cycle between the tiny view, full screen with a transparent UI (the one everyone I knew used), or full screen with no UI. Always annoyed me that when I opened my spell book it auto switched it to the tiny screen UI with the spell book over the small viewable area. I, like every other caster, was glad when they got rid of that.
And wow, after looking at that EQ Classic site, I don't see how EQ Classic will ever be a popular EMU. You can ONLY play the server if you have the EQ Trilogy box with the Verant logo on the front and an eqgame.exe file with a modified date of: Wednesday, August 22, 2001, 10:43:32 AM. Using the original install CD and then installing Kunark and Velious CDs on top will not work, you MUST have the Verant produced Trilogy box. Even if this thing isn't vaporware, where the hell will people get this obscure copy of the game from?
If the server ever sees the light of day, I'd be willing to bet some people will take it upon themselves to make the needed files available through alternative sources should that prove necessary.
DoTA 2 / Dark Souls 3 / Lurking P99 / D3 Profile
Waiting for Shadow Bane Emu to finish
I was digging through my storage area yesterday trying to find an old school SNES controller, I want to modify it to work on my computer for emulators because the replica controllers on amazon look so cheap.
Then I found an unopened scars of velious boxed set lol. Old game boxes were fucking huge. I guess it's not the correct version though because I posted about it on eqclassic.
I did do a quick search of amazon and ebay though and there are a surprisingly large amount of unopened copies of the required client out there. I'm going to pick me up a copy.
Last edited by Flunklesnarkin; 12-28-2012 at 06:59 AM.
srsly dont know if i can play eq without the titanium client at this point.
it runs so smooth that after playing p99 it just feels shitty using any other client so far.
Speaking of clients, I was just thinking that (and don't hate me for saying this) Tyen might not have had the worst idea in the world to try and get an EverQuest client recreated.
If the goal is to keep classic EQ alive, then the next step is to recreate the client after the server is done. The final step would be to find artists to create public domain models/animations/sounds. This is a tall order of course, but consider the possibilities:
A modern client using modern middleware solutions would eliminate any hoops people would have to jump through to get the game running (beyond copying the world assets if those were not recreated), and provide a much better experience for the players overall. Any client bugs would be easily fixed, and the server would no longer have to conform to what a static client released 12 years ago wants.
Using something like Unity or Hero engine would give you instant world building tools for custom content. I would prefer an MIT licensed client using something like Ogre3D however, but that would require custom tools be made. Using 100% open source, freely licensed code ensures that the game survives when platforms do not, as porting the game becomes trivial.
A full high fantasy asset library for MMORPGs licensed under CC BY is sort of a holy grail for me and would be the best thing to happen to MMOGs since the conversion from text based MUDs to immersive 3D worlds. Your server/game could completely copy EQ's gameplay, but be 100% immune from any and all legal threats. You could charge money for your server and use it to make it better if not outright make a business out of it. (obviously you'd have to rename things)
Make the server, client, and assets all public domain and what you'll see is something like what MUDs have in that any joe can just download the game and build his own custom version of it based off of an already fully functioning game; with the best ideas winning the most users, and a flavor of the game for every taste. Allowing commercial use would dramatically increase proliferation and the quality of derivative games.
The problem with open sourcing games is that games are extremely subjective. When developing other kinds of software, the best solution is generally obvious and there is not much issue when selecting which solution is chosen to solve a problem. Games, (at least the gameplay components) are not like this at all. An open source classic EverQuest clone provides the template game everybody can agree on, as well as an end-point as MMORPGs are never truly 'complete'.
This would immortalize EQ far more than anything else that could be done.
The titanium client has target rings, a frame rate limiter, and buff timers to name a few big ones. Even EQ Mac's client doesn't have those. To be honest I've felt that Project 1999 provided a superior game experience because of things like these. I'm all for the old school gameplay, but target rings and buff timers don't make the game harder, they make it more annoying. You can easily use 3rd party tools to monitor log files to get buff timers. (assuming you don't log out) On EQ Mac, I constantly hit esc before targeting same-name mobs to make sure they are targeted.
The Trilogy client doesn't allow any chat channels beyond the defaults either. There's a pretty strong anti voice chat bias over on the EQC forums. I read those opinions over there on the topic and think to myself how all of that is gonna change once the raiding game heats up.
Big time nub, there will be chat channels. You will just need to log outto use them.
This thread cracks me up
Heard from a friend that EQC Alpha starts in April. Hold onto your butts.
See how this goes
How will the EQclassic team combat RMT? Just trying to see how viable of a market this will be.
By cutting out the seller, I plan on running the RMT myself and only items for sale will be cracked staffs
Ok so... assuming a good playerbase this will be the second coming of P99's RMT game? Cya at evil eye!
But alpha is next month confirmed. No longer vapor ware! The end of waiting is nigh!
Supposedly there will not be any 2 boxing allowed. I wonder how they will swing that
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