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Thread: Why did Rift fail?

  1. #1
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    Why did Rift fail?

    A few things: I am in the middle when it comes to difficulty. I played EQ at release and I never felt I deserved any loot other than what was won but I hated waiting hours for a rare to spawn just to get a key piece. With that said, I do appreciate some of the relaxed mechanics that have been adopted. I don't have as much free time as I used to. I didn't play Rift at release, I was too absorbed in WoW at that moment. But now I am having a lot of fun with this game that I somehow missed on realese. So ...

    What happened? The game has great graphics, it seems to cater to the WoW crowd and EQ2 crowd (my wife loves player housing). Was it not like its current state on release? It has rare nameds, collection nodes, random world events, housing and the main story is well written.

    I'm not a schill I am just genuinely curious. It seems like whoever developed this game hit all the high marks* but was unable to attract enough players to maintain a monthly fee. What gives?


    * EQ was my first MMO so I am only judging things by what the market has become, not what it was when I started MMOs.
    Last edited by sunhillow; 01-12-2014 at 08:16 PM.

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    ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ Eorkern's Avatar
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    Because it sucked.
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  3. #3
    Failed Idea Big W Powah!'s Avatar
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    Rift failed for the same reason Vanguard failed; At the last minute, they went back on their shit and made it a quest-grind WoW clone. Rift in beta, while the core systems were the same, as much more about fighting off invading planar forces. I did all of like 4 quests outside the tutorial in Rift beta, the rest I went rift/invasion hopping.

    Little Timmy Casual bitched about not being able to complete his quests and Hartsman & Co. caved. Fuck them for it. I don't know about rift in its current state, but seriously, fuck Trion for what it became on release day. I know Scott used to frequent these boards, and probably still lurks. To him I say; This isn't a shot at you or your company directly, just a passionate fan disappointed in what happened. I had huge hopes, and was let down. So much so I barely made level 30. I can safely say that Rift had the biggest potential of the games released recently.

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    Administrator Draegan's Avatar
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    Well to be fair, it was always a quest-grind and the invasion/rift system in beta was turned up like to 1000x. In the Alpha, it was mostly what you saw in live.

    What really did the game in was an awful AA system, an abortion of a token collection system for gear and planar engines, and a development team that completely fucked up a very interesting class system. If you want me to go into further detail let me know.

    That being said, the game didn't fail, it just failed at being a WOW-killer. It was quite successful and remains successful to this day.

  5. #5
    Registered User Szeth's Avatar
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    Rift was awesome at release. 5 man instances were difficult, even after getting a decent amount of gear, and the achievements inside of them were equally difficult and fun to achieve.

    Then they made the 5 mans into shitholes, nerfing goddamn everything that was difficult about them. That was the day the music died.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Szeth View Post
    Rift was awesome at release. 5 man instances were difficult, even after getting a decent amount of gear, and the achievements inside of them were equally difficult and fun to achieve.

    Then they made the 5 mans into shitholes, nerfing goddamn everything that was difficult about them. That was the day the music died.
    I really loved the difficulty of the 5-mans early on, but they really did take too long (the shortest one took about 1.5-2 hours if you were still gearing up). It ultimately made it really hard to get enough people geared to do the raids, since really people could only do 1-2 5-mans per day. I'd have rather seen them shorten them up but kept the difficulty.

    I've posted it here before, Draegan is right about the class devs being incapable of managing what started as a pretty cool soul system. I didn't make it to the AAs patch (just got 1/2 way through HK as the main rogue tank in one of the top 5 guilds) before their quickly-swinging pendulum of class balance plus a lack of enjoyable things to do outside of raids drove me away.

    They also did a very poor job of mixing PVP and PVE balance, ultimately screwing over both by balancing them together. I honestly don't know why abilities don't have two separate functions for PVP and PVE in every MMO (e.g. "Snaring Bombs - PVP, slows target down by 50% for 2 seconds and deals 150+2x Str. PVE slows target down by 75% for 25 seconds and deals 150+3x Str"). That would be the easiest way to balance things without fucking it up for either side.

  7. #7
    Registered User Devnull's Avatar
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    Especially agree with the comment on the over usage of token systems in MMOs. Some thoughts other than the standard content issues:

    - Bland and uninspired visual style and effects.

    - Gamebryo engine with terrible animation clipping and spell effect culling at launch. Also no AA.

    - Split player factions

    - The dynamic rift event tech was reduced to a repetitive grind because Trion was afraid that players would whine about their gameplay being interrupted by it.

    - Limiting souls by class. There should not have been 4 base classes and players should have been allowed to unlock all the souls in the game through various methods. Epic questlines to unlock souls would have been fantastic.

    - The skill bloat at launch was unbelievable. Of course there will be some redundant skills with the soul system, however there should have been an active skill limit in place or some other mechanic to limit redundancy. You'd have 10 line macros full of skills that you just spammed. Again, if all souls were available to all players, they could have had souls much more focused and not had to include the full gamut 1-50 abilities in each soul.

    - Felt like the game tried to be everything. The PVP matches felt tacked on and were extremely frustrating and the classes were not well balanced for battleground style PVP. Why even have it? The spontaneous would pvp was pretty fun on its own.

    Edit: Here's a macro that was common at launch.

    #show crushing blow
    suppressmacrofailures
    cast massive blow
    cast frozen wrath
    cast sanction heretic
    cast lightning hammer
    cast bolt of radiance
    cast crushing blow
    cast bolt of judgment
    cast vex
    cast jolt
    cast glory of the chosen
    cast fated blow
    Last edited by Devnull; 12-02-2013 at 09:20 PM.

  8. #8
    Registered User Thengel's Avatar
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    It didn't.

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    I wouldn't say Rift failed exactly, but it certainly wasn't as big success.

    To me the game failed to have a "killer" feature, it was just an extremely well done average at everything game. I prefer a game that has a few memorable features, and a few bad ones than something that is just forgettable in almost every ways.

    The rift, invasions and zone events were the only memorable thing about the game...but as people said they were nerfed because people found it interfered too much with their questing.

    It could have been a great game, but ended up being just good enough.

  10. #10
    Registered User Tol's Avatar
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    For me personally, it was because it was absolutely indistinguishable from wow at launch. I throw the term 'wow clone' around a lot, but holy shit this felt more like wow than any game I've ever played, right down to the aesthetics and game engine. There were rifts, yeah, but I was pretty much over that from WHO already. The class system was supposed to be its big thing, but at launch every class had like 1-2 viable builds, with a lot being broken to the point of feeling mandatory. It kind of came down to it feeling like "why the fuck am I not just playing wow? There's more content, I have more invested in it, and this game feels completely the same but will probably die soon."
    Last edited by Tol; 12-02-2013 at 09:35 PM.

  11. #11
    live it! live it! an accordion's Avatar
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    Skill bloat - already covered.
    Terrible questing system - walking into town and seeing five exclamation marks above NPC's heads is very tedious.
    Uninspired WoW clone design for no reason - dual factions, exact same bag system, tons of skills that are the exact same (though to be fair they had at least some creative ones).
    Movement and response time of button presses was inferior to WoW.

    I think the last two can be applied to pretty much every failed MMO and several upcoming ones too.
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    Administrator Draegan's Avatar
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    Out of that whole post you saying "exact same bag system" made me laugh. Damn trion for copying their bag system!

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    As someone who has come back to RIFT a few times, and tried a different focus (PvE, PvP, finally Raiding ewww) I think I can throw my opinion into the hat:

    Graphics horribly optimized - I'm still getting 15 FPS in the new Dendrome fae town, just for example (other MMOs I get 60-144FPS to match my refresh rate)

    Soul system could have been much more - epic quests to unveil new ones, no restrictions no classes. They neuter even the current one. On my mage, I found a neat build that would let me get two passive skills to reduce my pet's GCD by .5, so it effectively had a 0.5 GCD. Was fun as hell, and still not top DPS but nope, that and everything else was nerfed. If you didn't dump all 61 points into one soul, you were gimped. Sooo...whats the point?

    Raiding - I tried once again with the FoH board guild, and dreaded logging on for raiding. I think I stopped logging in when we had to do a twin fight or something, and it was 10 minutes of boredom, and when the boss was at 5% or something, he'd do an attack that took 2 people to nullify it. Whether it was lag or them failing, we'd fail and get one shotted. So dull!

    AA system - I remember in EQ, loving when my shaman got the disease based root AA that was a knockback. It was so fun rooting things normally magic immune, and knocking bosses back! In Rift we literally get 100s of AA levels of just +0.0005% dps or something (ie +1 vengeance when I already have 1500). /yawn

    PvP - It had its moments, but when I came back a month or so ago, almost noone died. Everyone played range, even warriors. It was just a low scoring heal fest and dull as hell. Gear used to be almost raid quality so it helped in PvE, but they nerfed that too. Why?

  14. #14
    Registered User Neki's Avatar
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    To be honest, I enjoyed Rift at release

    The 5 man instances were challenging and boss mechanics were well done even though some were a bit buggy (yes I am looking at you, Caelia the Stormtouched. Fuck her stupid lightning animation)

    The first raid instance (Greenscale's Blight) was fun too. Infiltrator Johlen was a cool fight as was Oracle Aleria.

    When they nerfed the 5 mans, it just got boring fast and I lost interest along with many other people in the 'casual forum guild

    /salute Embers of Heaven

    Apart from EQ and WoW, Rift was one of the few MMO that I've played for more than a couple of months
    Last edited by Neki; 12-02-2013 at 10:03 PM.

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    Team Mormont Faltigoth's Avatar
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    I thought Rift had a million+ subscribers at launch (edit: was a million accounts, not necessarily subscribers or box sales)? It just became a ghost town shortly thereafter, and I don't remember anything else big launching that summer after Rift, only SWTOR in December.

    People here and elsewhere I have seen describe the game as soulless, and it really was. It still is. I mean, it had decent enough - and different enough - lore behind it, but the major heroes and villains just didn't resonate like, say, Antonia Bayle or Uther the Lightbringer or Mayong Mistmoore. It was like, Asha Catari, who gives a shit? Just another exclamation point.

    I played the shit out of it that summer, and still play a bit even to this day, but to me it is just a placeholder until something else comes along. Hard to put my finger on what's missing; I do feel for sure that the endgame grinds - for faction, currencies, what have you - are pretty fricking serious and feel more like work than fun little diversions.

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    Tiger Roach Nija's Avatar
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    Bro, do you even Rift?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big W Powah! View Post
    Rift failed for the same reason Vanguard failed; At the last minute, they went back on their shit and made it a quest-grind WoW clone. Rift in beta, while the core systems were the same, as much more about fighting off invading planar forces. I did all of like 4 quests outside the tutorial in Rift beta, the rest I went rift/invasion hopping.

    Little Timmy Casual bitched about not being able to complete his quests and Hartsman & Co. caved. Fuck them for it. I don't know about rift in its current state, but seriously, fuck Trion for what it became on release day. I know Scott used to frequent these boards, and probably still lurks. To him I say; This isn't a shot at you or your company directly, just a passionate fan disappointed in what happened. I had huge hopes, and was let down. So much so I barely made level 30. I can safely say that Rift had the biggest potential of the games released recently.
    I'm with this guy. PvEvEvP rift farming was where it was at for me. I didn't care about quests (Although a hero quest/solo quest line for story would have been fine) but the rest of the time I wanted more involved and more creative massive Rift farms. PvPvZ. GvGvZ and so on. I wanted rift farming to start at one zone, flow throw multiple levels to a boss, and move right into the next zone. I wanted multiple zone objectives that many teams could participate in to change the overall outcome of the Rift events in different ways. Small teams could target certain high value/hard objectives and zerg groups could rush obvious areas for general rewards. Even a few scattered solo objectives around the zones. Overall event rewards determined by overall cooperation, achievement and progress. Maybe the at certain levels if the overall players were to effective the enemies would get smarter about smashing you in between them and so on.

    Guilds/raids could all be focusing on hard side objectives for high value risk/rewards goals and racing against each other while the zerg in the middle does it's thing and everyone in the zone gets to participate in the whole process while seeing the best of the best go at it and earn bragging rights.
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  18. #18
    Tiger Roach Nija's Avatar
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    I didn't play because I played a Bard in beta and they nerfed the everloving shit out of that class before launch. Over-reaction like that really puts me off.

  19. #19
    Registered User Bacon's Avatar
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    It certainly wasn't the WoW killer it was hyped to be. Since switching to F2P and available on Steam, it's seen a flood of players. Whether folks stick around (probably not) is yet to be seen. I jumped in for a bit and I had a good time with friends. It's not the second coming, but free is in fact free - without all the "want feature x? then fucking sub, cunt!" that swotor bombards you with.

    I personally enjoy theorycrafting and making that "perfect build." More and more MMOs are leaning towards the casual cookie cutter classes unfortunately. If I can play this without a sub for a while until something new to this genre finally comes along, why not? I had heard reports that their numbers have been at their highest since the game's initial release. I know with it F2P that's not saying much. Looks like they're making some moola, because the latest State of the Game Address looks optimistic.

    I'm sure my rose tinted glasses will fade, and I'll discover it for the piece of shit that it is. At least I won't be wasting money on a box or sub fees. /shrug

  20. #20
    Steals Video Games TecKnoe's Avatar
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    never tried this, getting a new PC have an itch for an MMO whats the most OP class i just wanna rape shit.
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  21. #21
    Registered User Hateyou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nija View Post
    I didn't play because I played a Bard in beta and they nerfed the everloving shit out of that class before launch. Over-reaction like that really puts me off.
    I didn't play until release day, and was so excited to play a rogue that could dps or tank or bard, I like well done bards. This bard was the fucking worst and it really was just so disappointing. Tanking was fun as hell as a rogue but no one was very good at it so most people wouldn't even give you a shot. It was fun when they did and you surprised them/got comments though.

    That didn't make up for how utterly terrible the bard was in this game though. For shame Trion

  22. #22
    ..i.. Grim1's Avatar
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    Depends on what you call failure. It was, and is a financial success, much more so than the vast majority of mmos. Especially since TRION managed their costs much better than EA did with Star Wars.

  23. #23
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    Its sad when we judge games based on "how well they managed their $$" and now hot good the damn game was. I liked RIFT, just felt there was not enough of it.

  24. #24
    ..i.. Grim1's Avatar
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    Well, the kind of failure you are talking about is subjective though. ALL mmos have failed on that metric. I don't like WoW, so by your rules it is a failure. But I would never call it that.

    But the question of why we don't play Rift is a good one. For me it's because it's just like all the others.

  25. #25
    live it! live it! an accordion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draegan View Post
    Out of that whole post you saying "exact same bag system" made me laugh. Damn trion for copying their bag system!
    Only mentioned it because it was one of the first things I noticed during alpha. There's really no justification for doing the exact same system as WoW other than "because WoW did it". There are so many better ways to go about inventory management, but they took the lazy path, just like the majority of the game.
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    Registered User shabushabu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grim1 View Post
    Well, the kind of failure you are talking about is subjective though. ALL mmos have failed on that metric. I don't like WoW, so by your rules it is a failure. But I would never call it that.

    But the question of why we don't play Rift is a good one. For me it's because it's just like all the others.
    I agree that is the question we should be asking ! This is such a troll i feel but I am going to download and run around a bit. So whoever started this, ya got me.
    Last edited by shabushabu; 12-02-2013 at 11:54 PM.

  27. #27
    Registered User Vulg's Avatar
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    I can only speak to my own reasons for quitting a few months after release:

    - Game engine was mediocre at best; first time I rode my CE turtle it felt like I was gliding over the landscape
    - A couple of macros completely trivialized my 'rotation'
    - Nothing innovative enough to hook me in long term (i.e. instance/raid encounters were tired, game systems were tired etc.)

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big W Powah! View Post
    Rift failed for the same reason Vanguard failed; At the last minute, they went back on their shit and made it a quest-grind WoW clone. Rift in beta, while the core systems were the same, as much more about fighting off invading planar forces. I did all of like 4 quests outside the tutorial in Rift beta, the rest I went rift/invasion hopping.

    Little Timmy Casual bitched about not being able to complete his quests and Hartsman & Co. caved. Fuck them for it. I don't know about rift in its current state, but seriously, fuck Trion for what it became on release day. I know Scott used to frequent these boards, and probably still lurks. To him I say; This isn't a shot at you or your company directly, just a passionate fan disappointed in what happened. I had huge hopes, and was let down. So much so I barely made level 30. I can safely say that Rift had the biggest potential of the games released recently.
    Completely agree, as someone who raided heavily in Rift and did its pvp grind to rank 8 and then rank 50, the game had alot of promise up through Hammerknell. It fell apart after the fact as they kept adding more and more dailies. I would love for a game to go away from this trend of daily quests and quest hubs. Rift during beta was fun as shit, briarcliff pvp and rift hopping made the game great.
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  29. #29
    Registered User Itzena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunhillow View Post
    A few things: I am in the middle when it comes to difficulty. I played EQ at release and I never felt I deserved any loot other than what was won (Eternal Wrath SKs, I'm looking at you) but I hated waiting hours for a rare to spawn just to get a key piece. With that said, I do appreciate some of the relaxed mechanics that have been adopted. I don't have as much free time as I used to. I didn't play Rift at release, I was too absorbed in WoW at that moment. But now I am having a lot of fun with this game that I somehow missed on realese. So ...

    What happened? The game has great graphics, it seems to cater to the WoW crowd and EQ2 crowd (my wife loves player housing). Was it not like its current state on release? It has rare nameds, collection nodes, random world events, housing and the main story is well written.

    I'm not a schill I am just genuinely curious. It seems like whoever developed this game hit all the high marks* but was unable to attract enough players to maintain a monthly fee. What gives?


    * EQ was my first MMO so I am only judging things by what the market has become, not what it was when I started MMOs.
    It was a TBC-era WoW clone launched during Cataclysm. The jury will note exhibit A, the hurriedly-patched-in dungeon finder tool, which was only added when the playerbase collectively went "Nope, not gonna spam a LFG channel. Fix this shit or we walk".

    For further evidence, see the stupid level of tuning for instances (again hurriedly nerfed to acceptable levels) and so on.

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    Didn't Rift have like 7 dungeons and the most linear lvling/quest path ever? Think I quit pretty quickly after getting lvl 50.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jais View Post
    Didn't Rift have like 7 dungeons and the most linear lvling/quest path ever? Think I quit pretty quickly after getting lvl 50.
    That was a big part of the lack of staying power for me - the dungeons were good (great at start with the difficulty imo), but the leveling path was so linear, up until the last two zones, which you could sorta skip one or the other. I'm a bit of an alt-o-holic, and with only four classes I was like "Sweet, this'll be easy to get one of each to 50 and be able to play with all the awesome souls and whatnot!" Nope. Never got more than one class to max cause it was ridiculously repetitive.

  32. #32
    Poor Communication Skills bixxby's Avatar
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    Here is rift for me: Hit cap in like 10-20 days. Farm some dungeons. Oh hey, this is literally Warcraft that runs like shit, and my entire dps rotation is pressing 1 and 2 until my wrist hurts. Fuck that, and fuck them. Game is/was/always will be a shitabyss.
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  33. #33
    Riddle me this... Jx3's Avatar
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    Big thing for me was the repetitiveness of it. I liked the game, bought the game when it came out and it just seemed like WoW lite. I have a lot of time invested in WoW, why play something thats the same thing but runs shittier?

  34. #34
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    I liked the thought of Rift but hated the execution. I thought the graphics were nice, setting seemed cool, had an interesting back story, but that's it. When you got down to it, it was WoW again. Literally almost everything from WoW was copied. The cherry on top for me was the class system. They tried to do something different, and I understand and appreciate that, but in the end it was a bunch of min-max builds just like in WoW.

    Also, I hate the idea of four base classes and then expanding. It reminded me of launch EQ2 and it made me angry. Just start out with 16 or whatever classes and do that, don't do all this multi-layer convoluted shit. If the classes were split correctly I probably would've given it more of a chance.. just seemed lame.
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    I was another casualty of Hammerknell, though I can't define what made it so tedious. In the open world, I really enjoyed that you could climb all the terrain and be rewarded with puzzles or hard to reach artifact collections. Has any other game had ground spawn collections like Rift? It really scratched my OCD.

  36. #36
    Registered User Kedwyn's Avatar
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    Failed for me because it was what? A hard core weekend to max? Then another day to get gear and we started raiding whatever it was called and had most of it killed inside the head start week. All that was left was a horrendous faction grind for minimal rewards and world PVP which was laughable.

    Add to that it was mostly a straight copy for WoW in many areas and why was I paying to play this again?

    The class system, its only unique addition, got so watered down over development it just wasn't worth playing for it.

  37. #37
    Video Game Expert Pyros's Avatar
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    Personally I think the biggest failure was splitting people in factions and in classes. Factions is the usual wow shit it's pointless as fuck and just half your potential community only to alleviate server load in the starting weeks(for wow the initial idea was somewhat different but pretty sure that's why they do it now in games) and classes splitting kinda ruined the system of souls and shit. No classes, quest obtained souls(and by quest I don't mean collecting bear asses), add new souls every now and then, I think I'd have played longer that way. And yeah was mentionned, too many token grind systems.

  38. #38
    Spittin mad rhymes Troll's Avatar
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    The world was boring. The new gameplay ideas were boring. It was boring.

  39. #39
    Registered User Dandai's Avatar
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    I played Rift pretty hardcore for the first 10 or so months of release. I absolutely loved the difficulty of the heroic dungeons at release. You needed to play with quality players, and you quickly identified who those people were. I've still got friends I chat with that I met running heroics in Rift. Also, I was at the world first Akylios kill (Voodoo) and really enjoyed the difficulty of Hammerknell.

    The raid/dungeon devs asked us to help them test their new 10 man raid (the fire one, I don't remember the name), and it was alright, but this was the first raid in 4-5 months. It dawned on me that there wasn't going to be another HK for a long, long time. When they added Ember Isle and expanded the AA system, I just couldn't fathom enjoying 6 more months of HK and grinding the ridiculously expensive (at the time) AAs.

    I always told myself I'd go back and check out the expansion, but everything I read said they essentially doubled down on the Ember Isle experience, so I passed on even reinstalling the game.
    Last edited by Dandai; 12-03-2013 at 05:58 AM.

  40. #40
    Band Araysar's Avatar
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    Rift and Ever Jane should combine forces.

  41. #41
    300 baud Jaybee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dandai View Post
    I absolutely loved the difficulty of the heroic dungeons at release. You needed to play with quality players
    They did a tremendous job of tuning the heroics at release. I had a ton of fun playing Rift, but it was followed by a period where I just didn't have any free time to play it anymore. It gets my vote for best MMO post-WoW.

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    Rift was created with the idea that if you make a WoW clone that wasn't an immediately broken pile of shit you would make an obscene amount of money.

    That idea was wrong.

    Lost in its design somewhere was the fact that a game has to be entertaining for people to play it.

  43. #43
    Registered User Quineloe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draegan View Post
    Out of that whole post you saying "exact same bag system" made me laugh. Damn trion for copying their bag system!
    it's pretty huge when you add it all up. I can only say "oh, this is just like WoW did it" so often before I get sick of the game.

    dual factions
    quest hubs with the proper quest to send you to the next one once finished
    talent points


    it's been too long since I played Rift, but I remember it felt a lot like WoW because of all the mechanics they flat out copied.
    Last edited by Quineloe; 12-03-2013 at 07:13 AM.

  44. #44
    Registered Idiot Laura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tower View Post
    Rift was created with the idea that if you make a WoW clone that wasn't an immediately broken pile of shit you would make an obscene amount of money.

    That idea was wrong.

    Lost in its design somewhere was the fact that a game has to be entertaining for people to play it.
    Pretty spot on.


    Quote Originally Posted by Quineloe View Post
    it's pretty huge when you add it all up. I can only say "oh, this is just like WoW did it" so often before I get sick of the game.

    dual factions
    quest hubs with the proper quest to send you to the next one once finished
    talent points


    it's been too long since I played Rift, but I remember it felt a lot like WoW because of all the mechanics they flat out copied.
    The similarities are shockingly overwhelming.

    Pet class system is disgustingly WoW-like (the right click to "auto use ability" even the position of the icons and how the icons looked like even the NAMES of the abilities were like WoW; Bite? Claw? correct me if I'm wrong).
    The font used in the Item Tool-bar and how the information listed is exactly like World of Warcraft.
    The Talent Tree.
    The Combat.

    This is just from the tip of my head since I didn't play the game a lot. Combine all these and you end up feeling dizzy thinking "I've been here before...." Deja Freaking Du.

    I never called a game/MMO a WoW clone; Rift, however, was a WoW clone.
    Last edited by Laura; 12-03-2013 at 07:29 AM.
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    Even being a huge EQ-fan (playing it again for the last year) I still think there is a lot to like in Rift. It is therefore the MMO that ranks second on my list. I like the setting and graphics, there is a lot of mood in certain aras and the world feels pretty big (now with the xpack). The flow of leveling and combat is pretty smooth.

    If I ever get fed up with EQ again, I see myself playing Rift again for a while, before let us say Neverwinter Online and others. I still like the Rift events, even though it may not have panned out as planned it is still a mechanic that I enjoy. Both the roaming packs of NPC's that attack outposts as well as the Rift themselves still spice up the world some for me.

    What I do miss in Rift (and many other MMO's) is true cities. Rift has hubs that look fantastic but they feel too utilitarian to me. I never felt that any regular people lived in the world of Rift. Sometimes it feels more like a Fantasy Themepark at War, but at the same time that makes it rather different which I like (from time to time).

    I also dread the fact that when I come back I probably have to relearn and setup a complete new build, since they change stuff around so much. I do like to fiddle with setting up macro's and such, but I do have to be in the mood for that.

    If Rift manages to build up a loyal if smallish fanbase that keeps coming back then it has not really failed in my eyes. I think most MMO's will end up like that if they are lucky. If not, and they manage to alienate even those loyal people, then it has truly failed I think.

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    Rift had some good points, but ultimately it was too similar to WoW. Most people that had played WoW were unwilling to commit to a game that just felt like more of the same with less polish. And given that most potential customers had played WoW this ensured a small player base. For a WoW-clone to succeed it really must be significantly better that the original from day one.

  47. #47
    Registered User Chesire's Avatar
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    Or there is pushback from the players as in why pay 300 bucks to participate in a two year beta test. Or maybe just me , taken to looking at games a couple years after release .

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by tower View Post
    Rift was created with the idea that if you make a WoW clone that wasn't an immediately broken pile of shit you would make an obscene amount of money.

    That idea was wrong.

    Lost in its design somewhere was the fact that a game has to be entertaining for people to play it.
    Gonna be interesting to see how Wildstar does since they are pretty much doing the same thing (hopefully they wont neuter what sets them apart from WoW during late beta like Rift did).

    Quote Originally Posted by Laura View Post
    even the NAMES of the abilities were like WoW; Bite? Claw? correct me if I'm wrong).
    I never really played Rift so I am not disputing the overall feel... hell it's probably why I didnt get into the game in the first place. But isnt that a silly complaint even then? Calling them Gnaw or Scratch just to avoid that is asking a bit much, especially in light of many more glaring similarities.

  49. #49
    Registered User Vandyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asherah View Post
    Rift had some good points, but ultimately it was too similar to WoW. Most people that had played WoW were unwilling to commit to a game that just felt like more of the same with less polish. And given that most potential customers had played WoW this ensured a small player base. For a WoW-clone to succeed it really must be significantly better that the original from day one.
    This really is the reason here. The game was designed and marketed to be not only be a WoW clone, but the WoW clone. Trion's goal was to appeal to the legion of ex-WoW players that were tired of WoW and bring them into Rift. The problem with that thinking (which to be honest was pointed out by a number of people at the time) is there was nothing that made Rift different enough for those players to want to stick around. If ex-WoW players got burned out on WoW due to x-y-z and your game is pretty much like WoW, they are going to burn out for the exact same reasons in your game at a much faster clip, since there is nothing else (lore, series history, brand name) that would keep them there. Rift is exhibit A on the phrase 'you can't out-WoW Warcraft'. You have to bring something new to the table. Plus it's the notion of trying to appeal to ex-WoW players is a lost cause anyway since in my opinion I think those players are not just burned out on WoW, but on the quest treadmill/themepark type of MMO.

  50. #50
    Registered User shabushabu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jais View Post
    Didn't Rift have like 7 dungeons and the most linear lvling/quest path ever? Think I quit pretty quickly after getting lvl 50.
    Yep. The heroic mode dungeons were retreads. Trion was great at one thing it seemed "recycling content".

    I just loaded it up for a go and noticed they took any and all snares out of the ranger/marksman. ( can't recall where they were but they were there ).

    My guess: pvp balancing fucks pvE again. Sucks because that ranger/marksman was a fun leveling class back in the day. Now i clearly remember why i left. Trion was doing the same exact things to RIFT that made me leave WoW in the first place. Combine that with a god awful linear leveling experience once you hit max level there was no point. ( i had 2 chars max level and saw all content at the time. Even in Wow 2 chars did not = see all content.

    Their design was "get everyone to the gear treadmill ( battlegrounds or raids ) as fast as possible"... which to me is just horrible and lacking any imagination which pretty much describes most of RIFTs implementations.
    Last edited by shabushabu; 12-03-2013 at 02:46 PM.

  51. #51
    Italian bastard Miele's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vandyn View Post
    Rift is exhibit A on the phrase 'you can't out-WoW Warcraft'. You have to bring something new to the table. Plus it's the notion of trying to appeal to ex-WoW players is a lost cause anyway since in my opinion I think those players are not just burned out on WoW, but on the quest treadmill/themepark type of MMO.
    I'm tired of the themepark, nonetheless I played them religiously for years and years, with short breaks inbetween. Rift is just less appealing than WoW for class flavour, boring specs, shitty pets (I love pets, I mean combat pets, not the shitty cosmetic crap). I was pretty much forced to change spec every patch to perform adequately. They nerfed one group instances which are my favourite part of any MMO and overall didn't enjoy the massive macro fest and bloated hotbars.
    Game was good, just not good enough.

    Oh, as I said elsewhere, I was the only one that stayed past the first two months out of a dozen friends, that speaks volumes.

  52. #52
    Registered User Man0warr's Avatar
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    It's not a bad idea to take successful UI concepts from games that work - that shouldn't be a knock against RIFT.

    "Stealing" right click auto-use for pet abilities or the bag system is not a bad thing.

    The gameplay being a clone is, however.
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  53. #53
    HE A GOOD BOY Iannis's Avatar
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    I'm sure all the usual suspects have been touched on. I don't know if anyone has mentioned it yet, and I doubt they have, since probably everybody played Defiant. As a Guardian player I can tell you that one MAJOR problem with Rift was their inability and unwillingness to address their severe population imbalance.

    They tried 2 things and both were too little too late.

    Free server transfers only made the problem worse on guardian side as there was an exodus to 2-3 raiding servers, leaving the rest to wither. Their conquest thing... well, I don't know, I'd left by then, but it was a pvp fix that did nothing (from what I understand) to address the pve issue.

    The population problem was utterly predictable and I have no doubt that they predicted it. Failing to have a plan ready-to-implement cost them money. It was not only a bad decision for their game but a bad one for their business.

  54. #54
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    Rift was a really generic wow clone with some really awful design decisions, like the soul system. In theory it's not bad to have hybrid classes across the board but in practice giving people 14 talent trees and 934 talent points to assign is fucking awful. There's few things worse than coming back to Rift after a long break and not knowing what the fuck do to with all your shit.

    It's like they copied wow and then took some bad part of it and cranked it to 11 as if it would appeal to some hardcore demographic. I think this is going to be Wildstar's major mistake as well with 40 man raids. It's one thing to churn out a copy of WoW, but then for your minor deviations to be so insanely bad is like shooting yourself in the foot.

    The worst part of it was the questing and zones, there was nothing memorable whatsoever except maybe the realm of the fae dungeon. Rift to WoW is like Homefront to Modern Warfare.

  55. #55
    Registered User spronk's Avatar
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    i thought the artifact stuff in rift was awesome and wish more mmos would copy that

    I wonder if kids today even play MMOs, I have never seen any one of my kids friends talk about any mmo, and my son is acutely embarrased when I proudly wear my warcraft hoodie (its horde, of course). when I crouch behind the couch to listen and understand their pearls of wisdom, when not discussing how stupid their parents are (AGREED) the only games they seem to talk about are minecraft, dota2, and candysomething.

    which probably explains why trion is so into voxels and shit now

  56. #56
    Registered User Rezz's Avatar
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    Exposure from a young age and the prevalence of "casual" games that have massive qualities have probably dulled the mmorpg interest somewhat, I would imagine. Especially since a fairly big chunk of people tend to get to max level, find out they don't have time for raids or something similar, then quit in most mmorpgs. It is a lot more interesting to talk about an exciting DotA match or describe this awesome penis-castle you built than to say "yeah I killed boars for a couple of hours, turned in some generic quests and my weapon is marginally bigger now", comparatively. Especially for younger kids. Shit, when EQ/WoW/etc first popped out, massively multiplayer was like... 32 person fps servers or forum board shit. Now it is borderline every online game under the sun. The snowflake has melted.

    Oh, and Guardian Side rift (the grind was too much for me to make a defiant as well) had the most retarded lore and boringly generic fantasy look/feel to it out of any game recently. It made LotRO look innovative with their work, and that shit was derivative of ancient books and movies that came out several years before. And yada yada agree with all the sentiments of clunky combat and shit-tastic class design decisions.

  57. #57
    Registered User Ukerric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noodleface View Post
    in the end it was a bunch of min-max builds just like in WoW.
    To be honest, any system in which you have class customization (a "talent tree" or anything similar) with all talents being available from fungible points is going to be minmaxed.

    The only thing that you can do to reduce minmaxing is to make your talents (or whatever) be obtainable in specific non-automatic ways: long quests, "signets of capture" (GW1) on rare mobs, achievements, etc. In short, you make builds a CCG (not a TCG) in which people can argue about the perfect decks, but unless you have the cards, you don't build the perfect deck. Yep, Dual Shield Swap is the best ability for tanking, but unless you've defeated Malagon the Black keeping its Warmaster acolyte for the last, you don't have it available, find something else.

  58. #58
    Poor Communication Skills bixxby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spronk View Post
    i thought the artifact stuff in rift was awesome and wish more mmos would copy that
    Shhh, don't tell anyone, but even that was wholesale copied from Hartsman's other game
    Spoiler: 
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  59. #59
    REROLLED RAMBO Column's Avatar
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    Rift failed because it was a shitty wow clone....

  60. #60
    Registered Dorf Kreugen's Avatar
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    There's already a bash rift threat, it's called "the rift thread."

    And when you name your game after a feature that turns out to be a trivial, boring, repetitive grind fest for minor stat increases then you've really got problems. It'd be like naming Everquest "LootCamp."

    I find it funny that people think the problem with the zone invasion system was they didn't happen frequently enough. I guess die hard Rift fans enjoyed getting into a big zerg ball and mowing down hundreds of trivial trash mobs for a handful of lootcoins for items you don't need but for the rest of us, well, we don't play Rift for a lot of reasons. Especially awesome was how so many of those events happened in zones where there weren't enough people around to deal with them, nor did anyone give a shit enough about them to come kill a few hundred mobs for no reward.

    The "whiners" were completely right. Invasions were mostly annoying, stupid and pointless for a very long time. You were far better off doing practically anything else in the game. A boring grind with no reward, oh sign me the fuck up.

    And the only reason I could tolerate the combat was most of it could be done by holding down one key while running a repeater macro. The laughably bloated and stupid combat system was thankfully nullified by the ability to bind the majority of it to two keys - "deeps" and "aoedeeps." But if I was actually smashing those keys five times a second as intended.. ugh.
    Last edited by Kreugen; 12-03-2013 at 06:22 PM.

  61. #61
    Elegua Krassus's Avatar
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    Rift lol

  62. #62
    Brazilian 0.o NativityInBlack's Avatar
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    Only two starting areas made it really boring for me, I enjoy replaying with multiple characters.

  63. #63
    live it! live it! an accordion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NativityInBlack View Post
    Only two starting areas made it really boring for me, I enjoy replaying with multiple characters.
    Oh yeah, the races were bland as fuck too.

  64. #64
    Registered User spronk's Avatar
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    there were a couple of cool rifts i remember: the first was the original fire super boss rift you had to summon and shit, I don't remember why but it pretty goddamn hard and fun. The second was a few of the really epic random-o ones, like the caravan in Tatooine that required you to escort a bunch of caravans through some crazy elite gank squads, and which led to two or three mega bosses. They had some really cool rifts, but ultimately fell to the same problem: once you do it a few times, you stop caring and when enough people stop caring to go to the rifts they become impossible to do. a shitty problem for devs; make it too easy and its dumb, make it too hard and almost nobody does it.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eorkern View Post
    Because it sucked.
    ~

  66. #66
    Registered User shabushabu's Avatar
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    I remember in beta i was in gloamwood and 2 things happened.

    1. The evil side came to play there was massive pvp happening

    2. there was a HUGE ass invasion at the same time.. warewolf party

    I probably still have screenshots somewhere on my box but man that was an awesome time, i was hiding in a tree or on a building picking things off from above for most of it until they found me.

  67. #67
    Registered User Toxxulian's Avatar
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    The game was horrible from the start, you could tell it was a failure before it even launched.

    Horrible combat, animations that were laughable and the races were lazy. Human, Taller blue human, fat human and short human? What is this? You mean out of all the different races in the entire world of myth you choose these? I mean, come on, you have a fresh game with all new lore and this is what we get? On top of that the world was really small and very linear, wasn't it something like half the size of vanilla wow? Maybe less.
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  68. #68
    Vlad the Provoker
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    Rift failed because MMOs are fucking horrible.

  69. #69
    Font of Positivity Mist's Avatar
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    I quit Rift because Attack Power didn't seem to increase my damage and I didn't want to go back and get all crit gear. And every time I found a good rogue build it got nerfed.

    It was a WoW clone with very few of the good parts of WoW done well.

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    The animations were horrid. Women ran like dudes. Uninstalled.

  71. #71
    Registered User Ambiturner's Avatar
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    Rift never failed and is still going strong. They're releasing a second expansion in the spring. Most of the problems people brought up in the thread have been adressed: Rifts are meaningful, multiple specs viable for each calling, Attack power scaling (pretty soon after release), Ascended/Defiants unified, few macros needed, etc

    Races are still bland as shit and range from fat human to short human to skinny feminine human. I also never played much WoW so the similarities don't bother me so much.

  72. #72
    Steals Video Games TecKnoe's Avatar
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    where are you playing im bored and ill probably start up see if a few friends from work want to.
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  73. #73
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    About 2 months ago I got an email from an old friend saying that he and a few of my old gang were playing Rift again. I DLed, installed, saw that I had to redo 50someodd points into a spec tree, googled specs for 5 minutes, camped and uninstalled. Couldn't be bothered.

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by an accordion View Post
    Oh yeah, the races were bland as fuck too.
    Everything was bland as fuck. It was Store Brand™, the MMO.

  75. #75
    Registered User Ambiturner's Avatar
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    Official rift forums are only place to go for specs as everything else is runs the risk of being pretty dated. Honestly, going full into any non heal/non tank spec is viable for leveling and getting up to 60. If you enjoyed Rift when it was released I'd definitely recommend giving it a shot again.

    If you're just sick of wow style games though, then it's not for you.

  76. #76
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    I think Rift fizzled out because it was built way too conservatively. Loot was over cautious and boring. Classes were way too similar with a focus on allowing everyone to do everything and then nerfing it down. Rifts were briefly fun in beta, then tuned down to a snoozefest again for release. Their talent system likewise was just really Zzz. Add 1% to critical damage! Way to add the sexy there, guys.

    They didn't aim for the fences, they took a nice safe single and were happy to go home with it. Regurgitated game designers from mediocre MMOs who took the safest and simplest path is why Rift didn't do much for me.

  77. #77
    Poor Communication Skills bixxby's Avatar
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    Looking back, the coolest thing rift did was Saboteaurs (Nerfed to shit later of course because there is no fun allowed) and chloromancers. So 2 cool classes out of like 50. Great job!
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  78. #78
    Video Game Expert Pyros's Avatar
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    I think Archon and Cabalist were conceptually pretty nice(but didn't end up being good or fun to play), and the justicar/sentinel melee healing build hybrid shit was also really fun.

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    To me the things that need to really die in the MMOG plane are Talent Trees, Hard Coded Factions, and ability bloat and reading this it seems Rift really failed at not only copying them, but making them worse...

  80. #80
    Administrator Draegan's Avatar
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    Just imagine if instead of Rift having 3 vertical talent trees, they actually used a radial design. Instead of 8? tiers of vertical rows, they squished it down to like 5 broadened it out a bit. Then you design the soul system so that each soul sat on the point of a triangle and the trees went around on a curve thus you could bridge across souls horizontally instead of just going vertical in each one from the bottom.

    That would of been the bestest. Then you could toss in quests, gear, thing-a-majigs that allowed you to equip extra souls.

    Oh then you can release expansions with additional new "mini" souls that you can equip outside that ring of the core 3 souls.

    OMG all of the sudden you have an awesome system like POE but those mini souls are things you collect from the game. Then you can design souls and release them constantly like MOBAs release champs/heroes because they aren't full classes... !

    Or god forbid they sell them in a cash shop.

    Trion are you listening to me? Hire me and I'll design the system for you.

  81. #81
    Registered Dorf Kreugen's Avatar
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    Or remove all that crap entirely and narrow it down to a small number of meaningful choices, like wow did.

    I don't think having 1,000 skill nodes when 900 of them are "+1 stat" is exactly the model to copy.

  82. #82
    Administrator Draegan's Avatar
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    Well sure, but I didn't say the grid has to be a constellation of +1 dex nodes. The point is that you can reach interesting talent choices by entering "trees" at different points versus having to put 21 pts in a tree just for one interesting talent.

  83. #83
    Registered User Ambiturner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draegan View Post
    Just imagine if instead of Rift having 3 vertical talent trees, they actually used a radial design. Instead of 8? tiers of vertical rows, they squished it down to like 5 broadened it out a bit. Then you design the soul system so that each soul sat on the point of a triangle and the trees went around on a curve thus you could bridge across souls horizontally instead of just going vertical in each one from the bottom.

    That would of been the bestest. Then you could toss in quests, gear, thing-a-majigs that allowed you to equip extra souls.

    Oh then you can release expansions with additional new "mini" souls that you can equip outside that ring of the core 3 souls.

    OMG all of the sudden you have an awesome system like POE but those mini souls are things you collect from the game. Then you can design souls and release them constantly like MOBAs release champs/heroes because they aren't full classes... !

    Or god forbid they sell them in a cash shop.

    Trion are you listening to me? Hire me and I'll design the system for you.
    So they should have just copied TSW?

  84. #84
    Administrator Draegan's Avatar
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    I can't remember, but could you progress horizontally through the radial tree in TSW? I thought it was still all vertically done, but the UI element was just radial.

  85. #85
    BamboozledTwentyFourSeven Illuziun's Avatar
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    Follow the yellow brick road gameplay.

  86. #86
    Elegua Krassus's Avatar
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    You had to progress from the inside of the radius of the circle in TSW.

    Rifts trees and classes as a tank were a joke. From the original Alpha hard modes until the second raid zone dropped we posted how much it sucked being stuck as that ghetto ass Reaver / Paladin / VK build to have enough spell mit to raid tank. The raids were a total shit show too.

    Remember during raid testing how bad Greenscale got trashed? Then three months later the game comes out and Greenscale is stil bugged and the same, gets killed weekend 1 and has to be released again in his "final form" which was still able to be reflected and stuck in the air.

  87. #87
    Registered User Ambiturner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krassus View Post
    You had to progress from the inside of the radius of the circle in TSW.

    Rifts trees and classes as a tank were a joke. From the original Alpha hard modes until the second raid zone dropped we posted how much it sucked being stuck as that ghetto ass Reaver / Paladin / VK build to have enough spell mit to raid tank. The raids were a total shit show too.

    Remember during raid testing how bad Greenscale got trashed? Then three months later the game comes out and Greenscale is stil bugged and the same, gets killed weekend 1 and has to be released again in his "final form" which was still able to be reflected and stuck in the air.
    That's why you used Rogue tanks who went from best raid boss tanks in T1 to a complete joke in T2 because of how broken their scaling was. Rogue tanks in the Hammerknell took roughly 2.5x as much damage as a warrior tank. It's like the thought never occurred to them that new content would ever be released with better gear. They had to do a lot of drastic changes to fix all that bs.

    I do think Saboteur, Tactician, and Defiler are some of the coolest classes I've seen in an MMO.

  88. #88
    MMO Refugee gogojira's Avatar
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    It failed for me because it felt derivative. It was fine-tuned to be a product born from the streamlining of MMOs over the past years. It was Corolla the MMO. The only thing it did to mix things up was create random enemy spawn points that could temporarily take something over as a minor inconvenience.

    I didn't hate Rift, I just hit cap and quit. Every so often I'll log in, be told my skill points have been reset again, and log out. The class system sucks, too.

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    Simple:

    It was uninspired shit. Wow clone #12593.

    It had all the worst parts of wow with the addition of 1 button combat macros and ugly as fuck character models.

  90. #90
    Registered Dorf Kreugen's Avatar
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    Imagine the same abilities, but without macros.

    It would then have been the worst MMO combat in the history of everything. Even worse than EQ2, because of all of the reactives and non-GCDs.

    Macros were not the problem, they were the solution to an even worse problem.

  91. #91
    Registered User shabushabu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Illuziun View Post
    Follow the yellow brick road gameplay.
    Ha I knew when I played rift I had seen it all before ! Rofl

  92. #92
    Registered User Devnull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kreugen View Post
    Imagine the same abilities, but without macros.

    It would then have been the worst MMO combat in the history of everything. Even worse than EQ2, because of all of the reactives and non-GCDs.

    Macros were not the problem, they were the solution to an even worse problem.
    Absolutely. But, I don't think anyone here is dense enough to actually think that the macros were the problem. Mentioning the 1 button macro bullshit is just a quick way to illustrate the skill design issues with the game. I think Trion intentionally allowed macros to execute the way they did because they knew how awful the combat would be without them.

  93. #93
    Registered User Fingz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devnull View Post
    Absolutely. But, I don't think anyone here is dense enough to actually think that the macros were the problem. Mentioning the 1 button macro bullshit is just a quick way to illustrate the skill design issues with the game. I think Trion intentionally allowed macros to execute the way they did because they knew how awful the combat would be without them.
    I would first macro all my abilities so that I would have 1 or 2 keys to press. Then I would use a mouse macro to auto repeat those keys on a toggle.

    Then I would ask myself, why am I even playing? Then I would quit. I've gone through this cycle at least 3 times since the game released.

  94. #94
    Registered Dorf Kreugen's Avatar
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    Then it just becomes about your class/build and your gear rather than your ability to maintain a rotation/whack-a-mole priority queue while avoiding fire. It was good enough for Everquest, right? I have no problem with a game where your "do dps" ability is basically autoattack, as long as there are lots of things to react to and situational abilities to use. Like FF14 bard - I held down one button and mashed another one on a proc while dodging circles on the ground and it was entertaining enough.

    WoW goes overboard with the "this shit is hard enough on a training dummy" dps + "holy fuck FIRE EVERYWHERE" hard modes. There's only so much of that you can take.

    (heavily class dependent, of course. HUNTERLOL)
    Last edited by Kreugen; 12-05-2013 at 02:51 PM.

  95. #95
    Administrator Draegan's Avatar
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    I thought the macro system was the best. The one thing I hate about the DIKU MMO genre is having 2-4 hotbars with 5-7 ability rotations, dots to keep up, situational dps boosters all the while moving and dodging and doing whatever. Fuck that.

    Having 2-3 buttons to press (holddown) and actually enjoy the fight because I can see and concentrate on other things was pretty awesome. I prefer to theorycraft combat ability sequencing before the fight and not during it. If I liked guitar hero I would of bought it.

  96. #96
    Registered Dorf Kreugen's Avatar
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    Well, at least someone agrees with me on something these days, heh.

    Now obviously, a system like wow allows individual skill to matter more. Someone who can keep up some crazy optimal rotation while minimizing the damage they take is pretty valuable. But the issue becomes how much the effort vs potential varies by class. You can have a supremely simple rotation that does uber dps, or some godawful complexity that tops out just north of the tank. That shit can be enraging, especially when you have some classes that are massively affected by fight mechanics while others don't give a shit. It all combines into a big pile of Fuck You, at least at the bleeding edge of poopsock raiding. But it does let you show off your uber skills, assuming you don't get RNG fucked by every goddamn tornado forcing you to recast your motherfucking rune of power every ten fucking seconds and sljfslkejlksdjf FUCK ARCANE MAGES.

    Ahem.

    Like Rift, you had classes like Warlock where you had to put up SEVEN dots and THEN start your rotation. Then you had two cooldown abilities that refreshed your dots on a target, and then two more to transfer your dots from one target to another. And for all that, you did slightly better dps than an elemental holding down one button (unless it was a fight that bugged out pets, meh)
    Last edited by Kreugen; 12-05-2013 at 03:18 PM.

  97. #97
    Obi-Bro-Kenobi-X Brahma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jais View Post
    About 2 months ago I got an email from an old friend saying that he and a few of my old gang were playing Rift again. I DLed, installed, saw that I had to redo 50someodd points into a spec tree, googled specs for 5 minutes, camped and uninstalled. Couldn't be bothered.
    I downloaded last night. Ran into this same shit, and I at least gave it a shot and went to the forums. There was so much shit there that I just logged off. Mentioned to my friends I downloaded, and the 1st thing they hit me with is how much crap you need to go thru to get back into the game. On top of that how homogenized the classes have become.

    It failed for a few reasons. The WoW done meh...was the biggest. Just go play WoW.

    Second...game was called Rift, but people did everything they could to avoid the fuck out of them. There were so many great suggestions on how to make these work, and they were of course ignored.

    They started fucking with the builds way too much. Forcing you to go a full 51 points (was it 51?) to get abilities really was the doom of Rift for me and a couple of my buds.

    The retarded amount of skills, then the crazy macros needed to get the most out of said skills. GOD there were too many skills.

    What I did love about Rift was the difficulty of the dungeons initially. Skill mattering ageing was pretty cool. I actually liked the look. The art style was pretty nice. The engine was meh, as far as actual animations and shit went, but it did the job.

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brahma View Post
    Forcing you to go a full 51 points (was it 51?) to get abilities really was the doom of Rift for me and a couple of my buds.
    While I am not one of your buds, this is one of the reasons I quit too. The other was just how stingy they were on some stuff.

    For example, they took WOWs rep grinds, and made them 100x worse. I did the math, and not sure if the quests were bugged, but you'd have to do the entire 5 set of dailies for like 100+ days to get maxxed.

    Then they fucked with the puzzles in the expansion. A lot of people loved the original puzzles. Then they must have had a board meeting to figure out how to add a grind to puzzles. Not possible you say? You'd have to grind out artifact hunting. For some puzzles you'd need 12+ rares. I spent days on one and never even got close ;\

    The thing that made me uninstall was Conquest point decay. I was on vacation, and realized they actually invented a 'reverse-grind', where you'd lose points if you didn't do Conquest *every*single*day*. It was PvP but the PvE rewards were required for raiding. At the time it was something like +500 health, +10% damage or whatever (something high like that). I was basically paying for a second job. /bye

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    Played it at release and it just wasn't remotely interesting. I didn't specifically dislike playing it, but there was simply nothing new or cool about that game. It was such a resoundingly average, unimpressive MMORPG that it wasn't possible to justify choosing it over WoW (which I wasn't even playing at the time). I played for two weeks and then basically forgot I owned the game, I just suddenly realized I hadn't logged in for like five days and took it as a sign not to waste any more time on it. I didn't even care enough to spend energy hating it like I did with WAR and GW2 and a few others, Rift was just not noteworthy in any way. I believe I made it to level 48 and then it didn't even tempt me to go two levels further for the level cap, that's how little that game made me care. I've at least hit the level cap in pretty much every other MMORPG I've paid money for.
    Last edited by axeman; 12-05-2013 at 09:59 PM.

  100. #100
    Registered User spronk's Avatar
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    reading some of the employee comments on whether its a good place to work or not is pretty interesting
    Trion Worlds Reviews | Glassdoor

    I do wonder how they are doing financially, feels like the kind of studio that is always a step away from being shut down

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