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Thread: Leasing a car

  1. #1
    Spittin mad rhymes Troll's Avatar
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    Leasing a car

    So I'm looking at leasing a car. For my particular situation it's just my best option (little cash, basically non-existant credit history). I don't have "bad" credit. I'm never late on payments and don't live beyond my means. I've just never bought anything big.

    I also understand the general downsides of a lease: renting vs. owning. Mileage limits. Wear and tear fees. I'm also planning on walking away after the lease is up, not putting down the rest to buy.

    So anyone have any experience with leasing? Anything I should look out for?

    How easy is it to negotiate to lower the down payment?
    Last edited by Troll; 10-15-2013 at 11:56 AM.

  2. #2
    Everything is meaningless Vinen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troll View Post
    So I'm looking at leasing a car. For my particular situation it's just my best option (little cash, basically non-existant credit history). I don't have "bad" credit. I'm never late on payments and don't live beyond my means. I've just never bought anything big.

    I also understand the general downsides of a lease: renting vs. owning. Mileage limits. Wear and tear fees. I'm also planning on walking away after the lease is up, not putting down the rest to buy.

    So anyone have any experience with leasing? Anything I should look out for?

    How easy is it to negotiate to lower the down payment?
    Why not help fix your Credit by purchasing a car you can get a loan for with your so-called nonexistent credit?

  3. #3
    Spittin mad rhymes Troll's Avatar
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    Because that would cost me a shit-ton more a month than I want to pay?

  4. #4
    Everything is meaningless Vinen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troll View Post
    Because that would cost me a shit-ton more a month than I want to pay?
    You can't get a cheaper used car? Do you have to get new?

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    scientia potentia est Cad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troll View Post
    Because that would cost me a shit-ton more a month than I want to pay?
    Don't think of your bills as per month, think of your bills as "how much in total is this costing me."

    In the long run leasing costs more than owning, in almost all cases.

  6. #6
    Whiskey Tango Foxtrot Zodiac's Avatar
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    And you won't get a decent lease rate with zero or bad credit. It's even more important to have good credit when leasing.

  7. #7
    Don't Infract Me Bro Burnesto's Avatar
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    They're gonna try to hammer you with fees, no matter how legitimate, when your lease term expires.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinen View Post
    Why not help fix your Credit by purchasing a car you can get a loan for with your so-called nonexistent credit?
    You do realize leasing reports to your credit same as a purchase?
    OP- leasing is just fine and most of the bad things don't exist anymore.The american car companies used to screw people on lease penalties. That's where they got a bad rep.
    Just make sure you set the mileage at a resonable level and you may have to put close to the full lease startup due to lack of credit. A lease carries much lower interest than a traditional loan, in the range of 1%. Even if you choose to buy at the end it's nice because the company sets a value so if it holds more value that excess can be rolled into your new lease. The finance guys might try to roll protections and maintenance into the contract same as a purchase, so be aware of what yoy are signing and ask for it to be taken out.Good luck.

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    Delicious Noodles Noodleface's Avatar
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    We have leased two cars. We were in a similar situation as you, little money, spotty credit, etc. The leasing plans they gave us looked great, low payments and everything. My g/f at the time only lived about 15 minutes from work, so she would never realistically go over the miles. A year after getting the car she got a new job with a much longer commute. She immediately was blowing over her allotted miles. When we were finishing up the lease she was 4,000 miles over and I can't remember the exact cost. Something like 500 free miles and then $0.25/mile after that. We didn't want to pay the fees so we bought it. They tacked on crazy charges like a $3000 finance charge and shit. She ended up owing $13k on a 2010 Civic which isn't too bad, but I felt we got gouged.

    I leased my current car and with my new job I am blowing through the miles already (24000 in 10 months). I will be raped.

    Things to look out for, all the added protection. Think about what you're going to do at the end of the lease realistically. If you plan on buying the car outright, none of that shit is important. If you're just going to lease it and walk away, I would go for the packages that protect paint, interior, and probably tires. They had one where they spray a coat of something over your paint to keep it from chipping, I would look into that too. The thing with the lease is they will nickel and dime you on everything wrong with the car when you bring it in and they will charge A SHITLOAD for minor defects. Not uncommon for some scratches here and there to be $1000, then another $1000 on interior damage, $1000 for new tires. Just be prepared. They might be able to deal with you and walk you into a new lease at that point.

    If your credit and money situation is low I wouldn't do it. It seems great, but it is a pain in the ass.
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    Registered User joeboo's Avatar
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    Yeah, with a lease just consider that to get that low monthly rate you're going to have to put a few grand down to start, and they're going to gouge you for a few grand when you return it.

    Do the math and figure out if you are really saving any money by the time you get hit with $3000-$5000 worth of fees & required downpayments. An extra 5 grand is the equivalent of an extra $200 a month on a 24-month lease.

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    Registered User Frenzied Wombat's Avatar
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    I've leased all my previous cars (5) before my most recent car which I financed.

    The positives of leasing:
    1) New car every 2-4 years
    2) Lower monthly payments vs financing
    3) Fixed monthly payment with no surprises since car is always under warranty. Nice if you are OCD budget conscious and hate unforeseen costs.
    4) If car is seriously damaged, no worries about filing claims for "diminished value" and then trying to sell your car with a shitty Carfax report. Just hand the keys back at the end of the lease without penalties because of the GAAP insurance.

    Negatives of leasing:
    1) You never "own" a car, hence never have any equity in the vehicle unless you made a huge down payment on your lease.
    2) You can't mod your car, unless you "unmod" it before giving it back
    3) A lot more obfuscation during the costing process. With a finance all you have is the rate. With leasing there is money factor, residual value, term, etc,
    4) Unless you really love the car, it generally isn't beneficial to buy it out at lease end.
    5) You are restricted to a fixed amount of mileage

    First off, some of the claims here that you get raped when turning the car in is patently false. I've returned 3 cars without an exchange for a new model from the same vendor, and have never been charged anything more than the lease disposition fee ($250-350) depending on manufacturer (in my case Honda and BMW). As long as you don't turn the car in with massive stains on your seats and crater size dings, everything else is pretty much considered normal wear and tear.

    Go for a lease if you know you won't be driving high mileage, like a new car every 3-4 years (or see yourself getting a better car), appreciate the fixed monthly cost, and want lower payments vs a finance. However, whatever you do, do NOT put a single penny down on a lease. Any down payment on a lease is a total waste.
    Last edited by Frenzied Wombat; 10-15-2013 at 08:37 PM.

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    Database Error Vaclav's Avatar
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    Hmm - as a light driver you're definitely getting me intrigued about the idea of leasing - been looking at buying a new car for a change for myself (always been a used guy) - and with my health I don't put many miles on 1k a month would double my high months usually and looking at the rates it's pretty badass the rate difference with the only downside of "never owning" but then again, you also get to trade up afterwards.

    Now when you guys talk about "Fixed monthly payments with no surprises" - do you mean that any service issues that crop up are handled by the dealership by default? So like say... the emergency brake gets stuck permanently on (like is happening with my current 2001 I bought used) they'll consider it something that is covered by the lease and handle it without any costs besides the annoyance of being out the car for a few hours?

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    scientia potentia est Cad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaclav View Post
    Hmm - as a light driver you're definitely getting me intrigued about the idea of leasing - been looking at buying a new car for a change for myself (always been a used guy) - and with my health I don't put many miles on 1k a month would double my high months usually and looking at the rates it's pretty badass the rate difference with the only downside of "never owning" but then again, you also get to trade up afterwards.

    Now when you guys talk about "Fixed monthly payments with no surprises" - do you mean that any service issues that crop up are handled by the dealership by default? So like say... the emergency brake gets stuck permanently on (like is happening with my current 2001 I bought used) they'll consider it something that is covered by the lease and handle it without any costs besides the annoyance of being out the car for a few hours?
    You generally lease new cars and new cars have warranties. So yes.

  14. #14
    Database Error Vaclav's Avatar
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    Even if you go for a longer lease though? Scanning over Scion's (they're a big appeal to me right now - and last I checked Consumers seems to think they're OK) site they've got leases for up to 5 years (or was it 6? too lazy to go back) - I'd think that would go past the default warranty, no? Or what's normal warranty length?

    Edit: NM don't need to answer - it's 60 months/60k miles the same as they max the lease at except miles (and I'd be under than anyhow since I barely drive that much - 10 miles a day is likely my average).... man I'm getting really tempted... just the idea of never paying for a damn repair from something going haywire again... hell down payment is less than this damn emergency brake issue is being estimated at....
    Last edited by Vaclav; 10-15-2013 at 09:52 PM.

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    Registered User Frenzied Wombat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaclav View Post
    Even if you go for a longer lease though? Scanning over Scion's (they're a big appeal to me right now - and last I checked Consumers seems to think they're OK) site they've got leases for up to 5 years (or was it 6? too lazy to go back) - I'd think that would go past the default warranty, no? Or what's normal warranty length?

    Edit: NM don't need to answer - it's 60 months/60k miles the same as they max the lease at except miles (and I'd be under than anyhow since I barely drive that much - 10 miles a day is likely my average).... man I'm getting really tempted... just the idea of never paying for a damn repair from something going haywire again... hell down payment is less than this damn emergency brake issue is being estimated at....
    Go for it. The concept of financing your car and "building equity" is BS. Cars only depreciate unless it's an antique. You only end up with equity a few years into your finance payments unless you make a big down payment, and even then it's really a situation of opportunity cost. If I hadn't recently ended up in a situation where I'll be putting a lot of mileage on my car I would be leasing my current vehicle too.

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    Megistered Jooserockey Eomer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frenzied Wombat
    First off, some of the claims here that you get raped when turning the car in is patently false. I've returned 3 cars without an exchange for a new model from the same vendor, and have never been charged anything more than the lease disposition fee ($250-350) depending on manufacturer (in my case Honda and BMW). As long as you don't turn the car in with massive stains on your seats and crater size dings, everything else is pretty much considered normal wear and tear.
    Dude, most people are fucking pigs and treat their cars accordingly. I'm not surprised that a lot of people get dinged for damaged vehicles at the end of leases. Just looking at 2-3 year old cars with my girlfriend, I was fucking shocked at the condition of pretty much every single one we looked at. Apparently "good" condition for 3 year old cars means it only has rust showing in 3 places, that there is a single panel somewhere on the car without a major dent, blemish, or gouge, and that only one of the two front seats looks like a baby was delivered on it.

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    Registered User Frenzied Wombat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eomer View Post
    Dude, most people are fucking pigs and treat their cars accordingly. I'm not surprised that a lot of people get dinged for damaged vehicles at the end of leases. Just looking at 2-3 year old cars with my girlfriend, I was fucking shocked at the condition of pretty much every single one we looked at. Apparently "good" condition for 3 year old cars means it only has rust showing in 3 places, that there is a single panel somewhere on the car without a major dent, blemish, or gouge, and that only one of the two front seats looks like a baby was delivered on it.
    Agreed, if you're some chick that views her car as a combo mobile phone booth/Avon counter leasing isn't a good idea. I treat my cars very well so sometimes take for granted that a lot of people treat them like shit. Still, the definition of "wear and tear" varies by location. When I lived in Montreal it was impossible to make it two weeks with a new car before your bumpers got scratched from bad parallel parkers, yet when I turned in my Honda they didn't charge me a penny even though they would have to repaint the bumpers to sell it. If I had returned the same car in Dallas there is no doubt they would have charged for it.

    Keep in mind that each manufacturer has a CLEARLY defined set of guidelines (and charges) for lease turn-in "damage" you can peruse before leasing. It's not even somewhat subjective so there's no risk of getting "fucked" by your dealer. For instance, on my last bmw they supplied a ruler to measure "dings", with dings that exceeded the size of the ruler costing you X dollars. Same thing for tire treads and upholstery stains.

    But yes, if the hypothetical buyer (or his wife) treats cars like shit or plan on driving their St-Bernard around in the back seat, don't lease.

    EDIT: Forgot to mention, IF you trade your leased car in at the end for a new model from the same manufacturer, they will pretty much take it in almost any condition as long as they are cosmetic fixes (paint, dings, upholstery). I returned a BMW that had a HUGE scrape on the front bumper which should have cost me $400, but they didn't say a word, most likely because they knew they could roll that into my new car price somewhere. I was told even if there were major fixes involved, they could roll that charge into my new lease so I wouldn't have to fork over a large amount all at once.
    Last edited by Frenzied Wombat; 10-15-2013 at 11:30 PM.

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    Delicious Noodles Noodleface's Avatar
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    I should say my wife treated her car great, the main problem was the mileage. The guy started ticking off things we'd have to pay for and was a real asshole about it. We decided never to give them business again after we bought it so we bought my 2013 accord at another Honda dealer in another city. Probably varies dealer to dealer

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    Everything is meaningless Vinen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titan_atlas View Post
    You do realize leasing reports to your credit same as a purchase?
    OP- leasing is just fine and most of the bad things don't exist anymore.The american car companies used to screw people on lease penalties. That's where they got a bad rep.
    Just make sure you set the mileage at a resonable level and you may have to put close to the full lease startup due to lack of credit. A lease carries much lower interest than a traditional loan, in the range of 1%. Even if you choose to buy at the end it's nice because the company sets a value so if it holds more value that excess can be rolled into your new lease. The finance guys might try to roll protections and maintenance into the contract same as a purchase, so be aware of what yoy are signing and ask for it to be taken out.Good luck.
    Admitting ignorance on this Good to know -

  20. #20
    Failed Idea Big W Powah!'s Avatar
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    I leased my first car. I found that the issue with my lease is, 2 years into a 4 year lease, I had to give up the car. Basically, if you're in that situation you have to buy the car outright, or pay off the remaining lease and return the car. Both of which were astronomical amounts. Thankfully, I found a way out by trading it in to a dealership that would pay it off gladly, for a car that cost much less. 0 tax+a car that cost significantly less than the lease pay off? Yeah, I ended up with a paid off car (shitty as it may of been) and out like half the cash.

  21. #21
    Survived 9/23/2015 Soygen's Avatar
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    Why did you have to give up your lease 2 years in?

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    Registered Dragonlord Deathwing's Avatar
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    Hmmm, this thread has me considering leasing after my 2000 Civic finally dies(waiting for a serious engine or transmission problem). Would it make sense for someone who puts REALLY low mileage on a car to lease? Just to give you an idea, I bought this car used in October of 2003 with 41k miles. It's at 88k now. I've done the math and theoretically pumping $1k repairs into my Civic every 6 months is still cheaper than buying a new car when you consider increased insurance.

    Is leasing an option financially comparable? Or is it just always a loser for the security of never having surprise repairs?

  23. #23
    Mister Manager Eyashusa's Avatar
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    We leased our Explorer because I didn't want to put a huge down payment on a car. My wife drives 5 miles round trip to her job as a teacher. We did buy the interior protection plan because we have a dog and a new baby and I can just imagine his dirty paws and our kid throwing up on the car. We got it for cost according to the dealership (my wife's sister in law's brother is the director of sales where we got the car from so I believe him) and it added like $15 a month to our lease payment.

    3 months later and I am finally getting over thinking that I made a huge mistake just not buying a car. But really, we compared all the pros and cons posted in this thread and Buying a Car and we made the best decision for us.

  24. #24
    Failed Idea Big W Powah!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soygen View Post
    Why did you have to give up your lease 2 years in?
    Medical bills, basically. Something had to give.

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    Database Error Vaclav's Avatar
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    So something "involuntary" but related to you running out of finances, not like the dealership saying "Haha! We need it back right now!".

    Without that detail could've given a very different picture.

  26. #26
    Database Error Vaclav's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathwing View Post
    Hmmm, this thread has me considering leasing after my 2000 Civic finally dies(waiting for a serious engine or transmission problem). Would it make sense for someone who puts REALLY low mileage on a car to lease? Just to give you an idea, I bought this car used in October of 2003 with 41k miles. It's at 88k now. I've done the math and theoretically pumping $1k repairs into my Civic every 6 months is still cheaper than buying a new car when you consider increased insurance.

    Is leasing an option financially comparable? Or is it just always a loser for the security of never having surprise repairs?
    Deathwing - I think we're identical twins when it comes to driving - got my 2001 Mercury Sable in 2005 with 82k on it and it's just about to hit 112k. And the repairs are really what's doing it for me - the idea of being warrantied "for life" indirectly via leasing and having a predictable $X every month and only a little more in insurance costs (I was getting quoted $92/mo for full coverage on a new lease vs. $51/mo I pay right now for the state minimums) instead of $1-2k in repairs every couple years sounds like a dream come true to me.

    With me trying to budget our lives to our disability checks for now (although I'm working on my return to work) - $1-2k repair bills when they show up end up coming out of my trust money I really hate touching and am hoping to sign off in full to the nieces and nephews - with leasing, sure I won't ever be "free of paying for the car" but then again with insurance and gas I never am anyhow, $110/mo + random $X amounts sometimes vs. $300/mo really makes $300/mo look appealing here for damn sure.

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    Finance an inexpensive but reliable vehicle and keep it for 10 years. Leasing is only good for those who want to switch cars every 2-3 years with the same dealer.

  28. #28
    Registered Dragonlord Deathwing's Avatar
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    How do you determine that a car will be reliable for 10 years though? Even in the last few years I've heard mention of some cars from surprising companies(ford and kia) for reliability.

  29. #29
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    Leasing can work out for you depending upon your situation. A coworker's boyfriend just leased a $30,000+ truck which I am positive is going to end up being a terrible deal for him, given his history with cars (significant damage to every one of them), financial situation, and driving massive miles over the allotment. Add that to the fact that I'm certain he'll be tired of it and want to give it up/trade it in at the end of the lease, he's going to get fucked.

    I leased my current car 11 years ago, with the express intent of keeping it after the lease period ended. I wanted the car long-term, and I wanted the security of a new car warranty, but my financial situation put me in a position of not wanting to pay double the amount per month for a new car payment. Now, I clearly could have just bought a used car, and I looked high and low for something reliable for around the same monthly payment. I'll admit, I found a few that would have worked, assuming that they were reliable (no way to really know that for certain ahead of time). But the warranty kept me coming back to the lease, because I'm not a mechanic and I don't know any that I trust. If I did, I'd be telling a completely different story I'm sure.

    So I leased it, knowing that I wanted to buy it afterward. It definitely cost me more in insurance since you have to have certain levels of insurance to lease and I didn't need them for my old car, but not enough difference to change my decision. When the time came for the lease to renew, I just got a new loan for the residual, and continued paying around the same amount per month. They never looked at it, never checked the mileage, nothing. I could have been 100,000 miles over the limit and beat the car to shit, but since I was buying it anyway, it didn't matter. It ended up being a 4-year lease and a 4-year purchase, and paying 8 years on a car that is nothing special is a long fucking time, and I know that I paid thousands of dollars more in total...but I was ok with that. I knew my situation, had a plan, and was ok with spending more spread out over a longer time to have some extra security. As well as some time to get my finances back on track. Keeping it even longer has certainly helped too.

    Would I do it now? Of course not, but my situation is different. If you're really struggling, but can't afford to worry about extra repair bills popping up randomly, it is at least something to consider and not discard immediately because of the stigma. Even if you don't buy it at the end like I did, and want to keep leasing a new one, there are benefits to it. To me, it is entirely different than buying something like a TV that you don't really need on credit, and paying the minimum every month, racking up interest charges and paying double the price in the end. Aside from the "need" for one over the other, there is (usually) no unexpected maintenance with a TV like there is with a car. Buying a used car is always at least a little bit of a risk, and if you absolutely can't afford that risk, leasing might be the right answer even if it ends up costing you more in the long run. It isn't the right answer for everyone (the guy I mentioned above for example), but it isn't the huge mistake everyone used to think it was either.

    I do want to stress that if you can do your own repairs or know someone that can be trusted not to screw you to do them, if you are in the situation I was in, a used car should be your first choice, always. Also, many used cars still have a warranty left on them, but typically you are going to end up paying a lot for those still and it probably doesn't fit into the "limited budget" I'm describing. If I could have afforded a 2-year old used car with 4 or so years left on the warranty, I would have. But if you can afford that, you aren't leasing for the reasons I did anyway, you're just leasing to have a new car every few years.

  30. #30
    Delicious Noodles Noodleface's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathwing View Post
    How do you determine that a car will be reliable for 10 years though? Even in the last few years I've heard mention of some cars from surprising companies(ford and kia) for reliability.
    I basically go by the motto of "japanese = reliable". Sure, American are better now, but I still don't trust them. I'd rather go with the tried and tested.
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  31. #31
    Mister Manager Eyashusa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noodleface View Post
    I basically go by the motto of "japanese = reliable". Sure, American are better now, but I still don't trust them. I'd rather go with the tried and tested.
    how many times has toyota issued recalls in the past five years?

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    Registered User Xarpolis's Avatar
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    A good rule of thumb for leasing cars. If the car has a high resale value, you lease it for less every month.

    I was looking at a 2013 Audi A4. They wanted a minimum of $600 a month to lease a car that had a window sticker of $42,800.00
    I also looked at a 2013 Mercedes C300. They wanted $500 a month to lease a car that had a window sticker of $45,500.00

    I ended up going with the Mercedes. Talked them down to $415 a month, but then put a service & tire package into the lease as well. My total monthly is $461 as a result.
    I'm glad that I went with both the tire and service packages. Just today I scraped my rim after a dump truck driver forced me onto the shoulder to go around his broken down truck. I did a minor blemish to the rim as well as the tire itself. The package covers repairing the rim as well as replacing the tire if the tire is actually damaged. Aside from that, if I ever break a rim somehow... like hitting a REALLY nasty pot hole... It's a completely free repair. I guess minus any sort of suspension work I would need to get done, but the rim alone is $1800, so it's WELL worth getting a tire package in this situation.


  33. #33
    Registered User fifey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noodleface View Post
    I should say my wife treated her car great, the main problem was the mileage. The guy started ticking off things we'd have to pay for and was a real asshole about it. We decided never to give them business again after we bought it so we bought my 2013 accord at another Honda dealer in another city. Probably varies dealer to dealer
    Everyone I know who has leased has always gone over their mileage, I never talk to them about the raping they receive afterwards but I'm sure it hurts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhuobhe View Post
    Finance an inexpensive but reliable vehicle and keep it for 10 years. Leasing is only good for those who want to switch cars every 2-3 years with the same dealer.
    I like this plan or just buying a used reliable car.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eyashusa View Post
    how many times has toyota issued recalls in the past five years?
    How many of those were for reliability issues and not crumpled up floormats that cause a retard panic?

  34. #34
    Rerolled Desserter McCheese's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noodleface View Post
    I basically go by the motto of "japanese = reliable". Sure, American are better now, but I still don't trust them. I'd rather go with the tried and tested.
    Yeah, I've known several people who have had Corollas for anywhere from 5 to 10 years and I can count the number of issues they've had on one hand (for all of them together!). My dad's Corolla is going on 7 years and the only issue he had was a minor a/c thing in year 4 or 5. My Chevy Cavalier died a little over a year ago and after dealing with that piece of shit I swore I'd never buy another American car.

    I was in a similar situation as the OP because I had little money for a down payment and I was only earning $1400/month. I debated leasing due to the drastically reduced monthly payments, but I sucked it up and financed the cheapest, new Corolla I could find.

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    Is it possible to lease a hybrid car? I've been thinking about that, if you have a short commute to work you don't have to buy gas and the lease ensures you don't have to deal with long term reliability problems with the batteries.

  36. #36
    Mister Manager Eyashusa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fifey View Post
    How many of those were for reliability issues and not crumpled up floormats that cause a retard panic?
    I can only think of one time this happened.

  37. #37
    Make America's Team great again Hoss's Avatar
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    I'm not a fan of leasing, but I've helped my mom lease a couple of cars. I only think leasing is a good idea if you're the type of person who must have a new car every few years. I'm not that type, I still drive a 2001 with 400k miles that I bought new, and I plan to keep driving it till at least a million miles because I wanna see what the odometer does. It's electronic so I can't tell if it's got room for another digit.

    Anyway, my experience is that they are not willing to deal on the price at all once you tell them its a lease. Maybe that's just a buick thing, because that's what my mom likes to drive. I see at least one of you was able to wheel and deal (the person who had a brother in law at the dealership doesn't count).

    Building equity is not bullshit, I don't get why anyone would think that. When you take equity into account, you're paying a little more to buy a typical car in 3 years compared to leasing. Take the loan/lease term out to 5 years though, and you're paying quite a bit more for the lease.

    When you're negotiating, be sure to get numbers for a buy too. In my experience, you don't save enough on the payments when you do a lease. You'd think that since you're 'only paying for half the car', the payments would be half, but it doesn't work out that way because with a lease, you're paying the interest on the full note the entire time.

    Also, the commercials for the leasing companies really piss me off. They say, "You're paying for half the car, why not pay for the new half". And when I'm in a bad mood, I start screaming "because the fucking car is going to last more than 6 years you stupid fucking cunt"

    Sorry, back to the topic at hand. The miles should not be a problem unless you're clueless. There's always an option to buy the miles up front for a much discounted rate. I can see it being tough for younger drivers to figure that out, but for me, I could tell you in probably 15 minutes how many miles i'd driven over the past few years, because I get reimbursed periodically and have to write them down. Plus, it's not hard to keep track of your miles and park the car for a while if you're going over. I know, I know WAH WAH my commute got longer. Some things we can't control, but even in that case you might be able to car pool with someone.

    So, bottom line. I recommend a used car. If you wanna lease anyway, get the facts and haggle just as if you were buying a new car (there's a new car thread here that probably has good info). If they won't give you a good price, tell them to fuck off and leave (this is actually a lot of fun and my favorite part of buying a car). Sit down and figure out how much you actually drive, add 20% to that number and buy mileage ahead of time (note I don't mean sit down with google maps and a calculator, write down your fucking mileage every once in a while and see how far you actually went). And finally, be sure to at least look into the cost of buying the same car. You might be surprised at how much money you're not saving with that lease.

  38. #38
    Database Error Vaclav's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xequecal View Post
    Is it possible to lease a hybrid car? I've been thinking about that, if you have a short commute to work you don't have to buy gas and the lease ensures you don't have to deal with long term reliability problems with the batteries.
    Not sure on hybrids - but I did notice the Nissan Leaf (100% electric) is apparently leaseable and shockingly affordable compared to the last time I saw it priced. [$199/mo lease I think it was with $3k down?]

  39. #39
    Database Error Vaclav's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoss View Post
    So, bottom line. I recommend a used car. If you wanna lease anyway, get the facts and haggle just as if you were buying a new car (there's a new car thread here that probably has good info). If they won't give you a good price, tell them to fuck off and leave (this is actually a lot of fun and my favorite part of buying a car). Sit down and figure out how much you actually drive, add 20% to that number and buy mileage ahead of time (note I don't mean sit down with google maps and a calculator, write down your fucking mileage every once in a while and see how far you actually went). And finally, be sure to at least look into the cost of buying the same car. You might be surprised at how much money you're not saving with that lease.
    I'd say it depends on luck more than anything - I have shit luck with used cars man - I've been a used man my entire life to date only buying new for the wife because she insisted on having a new car to learn on (which now that she's licensed she barely touches but still doesn't want to share.... sad, eh?). And seriously for every reasonably priced ($5-10k) used I've bought them in full, but then had to dump $1-2k in repairs every other year in addition to scheduled shit, and I might drive 5k/mi a year. [Not to mention having 3 surprise failures in my life on cars which are always fun to have to draw on my trust I hate to use...]

    Literally with how my luck has been leasing would cost me almost the same as buying a used simply because of all the repairs being warrantied for the life of the lease - and it'll actually be a nice new car rather than a beater. Maybe if I went for a $15-20k used I'd have better luck, but at that point why even bother buying used - I'd just buy new at that point.

    It might not work out for everyone, but it's certainly something I've never done that has an obvious appeal in my situation - and frankly I've got a feeling more Americans are coming around to feeling the same since Consumer's was quoting leasing was 12% of sales in 2012 and in 2013 it's 27.5% - clearly people are starting to come around on the idea.

  40. #40
    Make America's Team great again Hoss's Avatar
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    no offense, but it sounds like you might be a terrible judge of the soundness of a car. Possibly also a terrible judge of the character of the person you're dealing with. Out of curiosity, do you get carFax reports and have a good mechanic check a car out before buying? If you do buy used again, maybe you should go to the extra trouble and do those things.
    Last edited by Hoss; 10-21-2013 at 07:32 PM.

  41. #41
    Database Error Vaclav's Avatar
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    No offense, but yes I did - single owner beforehand pretty much as glowing as possible to expect of a used car. All of them previous to this one (with similar experiences) through my damn brother, two of which he bought FOR ME as gifts. (And of which each he disclosed the issues with them each time - unlike this one that was completely glowing on the report they each did have issues - of course none of those issues became the chronic problems that later developed into real issues...)

    Like my current problem of a stuck parking brake clearly wasn't an earlier issue, and not something that I've ever seen on a Carfax report. Of course this shitty area I live in right now with the most pollinating tree in history over top of my driveway likely has wreaked a bit more havoc on cars than usual - I know my air filters have been a yearly replacement cycle because of the damn thing.... I think at the old house the air filters outlasted the cars....

  42. #42
    Make America's Team great again Hoss's Avatar
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    You mean, you're replacing your air filters yearly as opposed to quarterly because of excessive pollen? I must have misread that. Are you talking about a cars air filters or the ones in your house?

    The car with the stuck parking brake .. is it a standard? Cause if its an automatic, the previous owners might not have ever used it.

  43. #43
    Don't Infract Me Bro Burnesto's Avatar
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    Yea a stuck parking brake on an automatic isn't really out of the ordinary.
    Originally Posted by supertouch
    for those who asked:

    i haven't sucked her penis but i have stroked it. it sounds odd but i don't view it as a masculine organ on her.

  44. #44
    Database Error Vaclav's Avatar
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    Yearly with about 3k miles a year on the CAR air filters - the pollen is hellish - white car makes it obvious quickly.

    And yea automatic which I know ain't too rare but its making braking occasionally 'lock' a bit even though its got ABS so shouldn't. Harrowing braking at times while getting it unlocked - fun times.

    Never gonna sell me on staying with used, trust me - too many problems.

  45. #45
    Make America's Team great again Hoss's Avatar
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    That sounds about right for air filters. You're supposed to change them with every oil change, more or less. You could probably do every other one if you change oil at 3000 miles and don't have harsh environmental conditions.

    I'm sensing maintenance issues. Are you the type who believes maintenance is for suckers and in the long run its better to just run the car into the ground and replace it?

  46. #46
    Database Error Vaclav's Avatar
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    Oil change + checkup every 6 mos (I never hit even 2k most 6 month windows).

    Changing air filters every 1kish.

  47. #47
    Spittin mad rhymes Troll's Avatar
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    So I was going to lease... until this amazing person in the finance department at one of the dealerships called me up with a deal.

    I'm buying a new car and it's well within my budget. Fuck yeah, those feels. I'm kind of stoked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Troll View Post
    So I was going to lease... until this amazing person in the finance department at one of the dealerships called me up with a deal.

    I'm buying a new car and it's well within my budget. Fuck yeah, those feels. I'm kind of stoked.
    If it's a long term, just make sure it's a low rate.

  49. #49
    Spittin mad rhymes Troll's Avatar
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    It's 60 months at 7%. Not the lowest, I know. But I'll just get it refinanced in a year. Should be able to knock it down quite a bit.

  50. #50
    Coat-hanger Dick Khane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troll View Post
    It's 60 months at 7%. Not the lowest, I know. But I'll just get it refinanced in a year. Should be able to knock it down quite a bit.
    I know you said you have basically non-existent credit but have you at least tried to find other banks/credit unions to finance the car at a lower rate? Even with my stellar credit rating the GM dealer I bought my last truck from said the best they could do was 7.5%. I looked around and found a 2.99% loan and refinanced the very next day, that same credit union offers 1.99% rates now.

  51. #51
    Make America's Team great again Hoss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaclav View Post
    Of course this shitty area I live in right now with the most pollinating tree in history over top of my driveway likely has wreaked a bit more havoc on cars than usual - I know my air filters have been a yearly replacement cycle because of the damn thing.... I think at the old house the air filters outlasted the cars....
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaclav View Post
    Yearly with about 3k miles a year on the CAR air filters - the pollen is hellish
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaclav View Post
    Oil change + checkup every 6 mos (I never hit even 2k most 6 month windows).

    Changing air filters every 1kish.
    You're confusing the everloving fuck out of me. Am I hard of understanding, or are you hard of explaining? What I'm seeing here is that you went from
    1. having to change air filters every year, which is more often than the never that you changed air filters at your old house
    2. You change the air filters annually at about 3k miles (assuming you're talking about at the new house, I'm still with you, this is the same as #1)
    3. you change air filters every 1k miles, which works out to every 4 months since you put less than 3k on in a year.

    The air filter conversation isn't that important. I'm ready to pull the eject handles.

    But I want to point out that if you're changing air filters every 1k miles, you're probably doing it too often. Filters have to get a cake on them before they work at peak efficiency. Changing too often means you're allowing more of the smaller diameter crud to get into your engine. Also, the amount of pollen in the air doesn't matter if you're not running the car. Unless it's exposed, the filter should only be getting shit in it when the car is trying to suck in air.

    You have weird driving habits, so I can't tell you for sure what the correct interval is. Once a year is probably the right answer though. You should look at what the vehicle and filter manufacturers recommend.

  52. #52
    Database Error Vaclav's Avatar
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    When I've been swapping them, it's been literally black like soot - like when it was "oh shit, why didn't you replace this yet!" level for home air filters when I used to have the fabric ones (I use metal filters now though inside). And yea, I fucked up earlier quoting yearly - been a busy couple months felt like a year since I had my last checkup on the car wasn't until the second post I bothered checking my records and realized time got away from me. (And note on the "black soot" it's the same consistency and color as the pollen turns on my car after a day or two baking in the sun - car looks filthy constantly if I don't get it a wash pretty much once a week with how the pollen is - it's just a really fucked up spot for pollen - and last time I had it in the shop the entire hood compartment (which I barely ever open, I switch air filters on my car and everything else is done in the shop) had so much of that crap caked on it that they claimed the first mechanic had to leave for the day because it was triggering his asthma from the fragments falling off... (and suggested getting detailing done on the car and specifically mentioning to clean the inside hood - which I did... and cost me more than I'd like to admit...)

    Maybe I'm overreacting to how much I hate this property though - its just been plagued with problems since my parents gifted it to me... [First year the hurricane hit and I had about half of the trees fall, and they were on average twice the height of this two story home... none hit the house, but did demolish the shed w/ all it's contents, demolished the fence on three sides of the yard, etc - and insurance only wanted to pay out 60%... fun times...]

  53. #53
    Spittin mad rhymes Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khane View Post
    I know you said you have basically non-existent credit but have you at least tried to find other banks/credit unions to finance the car at a lower rate? Even with my stellar credit rating the GM dealer I bought my last truck from said the best they could do was 7.5%. I looked around and found a 2.99% loan and refinanced the very next day, that same credit union offers 1.99% rates now.
    Yeah. I shopped around everywhere. The dealership offered the best deal.

    And oh fuck oh fuck oh fuck I just bought a car. I want to scream and giggle at the same time.

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    7% ? wtf? Really fkn amazing person in that finance department...

  55. #55
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    I just went car shopping today and it's just as much of a scummy and unpleasant experience as I remember. I really need to figure out what signals I'm sending that makes salespeople assume I'm a clueless retard. I was wanting to grind my face into my palm for pretty much that entire experience. I got subjected to every idiotic cliche you see in bad sitcoms.

    I go into Toyota and get a sales guy in his mid-50s. He starts putting my information into the computer and I notice pretty quickly that he has no idea how to operate computers in general. He's using the 5 keystrokes/minute hunt and peck method to put everything in and it takes forever. We finally get that part done and I ask to drive a Prius as I want to see how hybrids drive in both full EV mode and in hybrid mode. He asks me what color I want to test drive, I think this is odd as that's really irrelevant, he insists that I should try out the one I'd want to buy. I'm like OK and go with a blue one, and of course he immediately comes back with, "Oh we just got that one in today, you want me to hold it for you? We'll sell by the end of the day for sure." Cue facepalm #1. Anyway, I get in the car and of course the battery has not been charged, (facepalm #2) so I can't actually try out EV mode because it's not available. I drive it for a couple miles anyway mainly just to humor the guy and ask some questions about where the efficiency comes from and the computer system. Of course, his electronic cluelessness also extends to the computer system of the car and he can't answer anything. "Does it have a USB port or do I need an adapter?" "Since you can't plug the car in, does it get most of the extra efficiency from the regenerative braking?" "Uhhhh....I'm not sure, I'll have to ask about that." So, yeah, facepalm #3.

    I'm pretty convinced I'm not buying anything now, but I ask the guy to run my credit to make sure I can actually get the rate they advertised. I have pretty good credit but I want to be sure about it. He spends literally 20 minutes talking with the finance guy, I have no idea why it takes this long, but then he comes back with a rate that's $40/month more and more down than the rate I saw advertised on their own website. I ask him if it's costing me more because of my credit, because it's illegal for them to lie about that, and he says, "No, this is the best deal we have, in fact you won't find a better deal at any Toyota dealership in the state." I want to strangle this guy at this point but I just direct him to his dealership's own website where they're advertising the lower rate and he goes back to his finance people and makes me sit there for ANOTHER 20 minutes. He then comes back with a rate that's still $20/month higher than the advertised rate, and I tell him that I'm leaving and am going to try another dealership. "Are you sure? Those cars sell fast, I can't hold it for very long it'll be gone by the end of the day."

    That was two hours ago. He has called my cell phone twice now offering me a lower rate (but still more than their advertisement) each time. I think I need a shower.

  56. #56
    Database Error Vaclav's Avatar
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    Depends on where you are in my experience - if you've got a strip with a ton of dealerships near each other, that's usually less likely (although not impossible - if the dealerships are all different tiers - Jag dealership in amongst lowend brands might still be scummy) from what I've seen. And was a lesson my father taught me early on, "Always make sure to go to a dealership that you can just say 'That sounds shitty, I'll talk to your competition next door'" and doesn't seem to have been wrong for me thusfar in getting treated "right".

  57. #57
    Make America's Team great again Hoss's Avatar
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    I really enjoy walking out on a car salesman. I enjoy the entire experience. I mean, I do get pissed at incompetence and when they ignore me, but hell even those times, I have fun with it. I wish I could buy a car every weekend. I like to pick out something stupid as a deal breaker when they show me they're going to be high pressure. Like a class 4 receiver hitch on that hybrid. The last one I did was I insisted they put their dealership logo on my truck before we could even discuss buying the car, because I liked their name.

  58. #58
    The Baconknight opiate82's Avatar
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    Last time I went to buy a car I offered to let them check financing just for shits-and-giggles even though I had fully planned on going through my credit union where I had already gone and had been approved for 2.5%

    They come at me with a "great rate" of 8%. I just laugh and say "no thanks, I can get better through my bank." They ask me how much, I tell them, they say hold on then came back again at 1.5%. Seriously?

    Also when I car shop now, before I even test drive I give them a list of car salesmen cliches that will immediately get me to walk away. Refusing to give the keys back on my trade in, asking me how much I want my "monthly payment" to be rather than giving me the price of the car, telling me I don't qualify for their advertised rebate ("Oh, that is military only"), etc. Even after listing off like 10+ different tricks that I've told them I know about, and told them not to try on me, they still do almost every time. It is amazing. I really hate dealing with car salesmen.

  59. #59
    Registered User joeboo's Avatar
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    I actually enjoyed my last car buying experience, because we happened to get this roughly 25 year old kid who was on his 2nd day on the job. He literally knew absolutely nothing about any of the cars, which was fine because I had done my research beforehand, I just wanted to actually drive one. Kid didn't try to tell me anything, wasn't pushy, didn't know any of the cliche car salesman tricks yet, etc. When chatting with him on the test drive, he had been working at McDonalds up until the previous week. He had no experience with anything car related.

    Ended up buying the car from him the next day, and I told the dealership manager exactly why we bought from him, because he didn't try and BS and freely admitted when I asked him something and he didn't know the answer, he didn't try to make up some crap just to sell me the car. I appreciate honesty, even if that honesty is "I don't know"

  60. #60
    Coat-hanger Dick Khane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by opiate82 View Post
    asking me how much I want my "monthly payment" to be rather than giving me the price of the car
    I actually love when they do this because I tell them some absurdly low number AND tell them how long I want the life of the loan to be.

    "You say the price is $500/mo? I want it for $420/mo on a 60 month loan"

    Usually I know they are just going to go back and forth to their "manager" to "ask" if it's something they can do and they come back with slightly lower numbers each time. I just love watching them walk back and forth pretending they are actually doing something. I get a huge kick out of it.
    Last edited by Khane; 11-08-2013 at 03:34 PM.

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    Ugh, I just was in another dealership where they said a $289/month lease was the best they could do. I produced an ad offering the same car for $269/month, and he actually asked me, "Well, why do you think you should only have to pay $269/month?" PLEASE KILL YOURSELF.

  62. #62
    Failed Idea Big W Powah!'s Avatar
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    When I bought my current car, I had a wonderful experience. They asked how much I thought my trade in was worth, I gave them a number a full 5k higher than what would've been realistic. They came back with a number 3k lower than that. Then they asked what I wanted my monthly to be, I lowballed the fuck out of them and walked out of there with a 0% interest loan, the car for 3k under MSRP and an extra 3k on my trade. I felt good.

  63. #63
    Database Error Vaclav's Avatar
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    Heh, hopefully I can swing something like that when I start my lease in a couple months right before this car hits the point I'm ready to give up on it completely.

  64. #64
    Whiskey Tango Foxtrot Zodiac's Avatar
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    If you can, always deal with the internet / fleet sales guy. They will normally be no nonsense and will give you a good price right off the bat. I've used carwoo.com with good results to contact a bunch of dealers and get quick quotes from all of them.

  65. #65
    Make America's Team great again Hoss's Avatar
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    I dealt with one internet sales person when I bought my truck. They were so terrible, I made a trip out to the dealership just to make sure I was complaining as high up the food chain as possible. I initially emailed the complaint and realized the same person had received it.

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    Just as a heads-up to people who don't know. Salespeople only get paid when they sell a car. On top of that, they only get paid off of the PROFIT of selling said car. Think about your paycheck and what you do for it. Now realize the people that you talk to are also thinking about their paycheck. It isn't personal.

    All that said, go to the manufacturers website, submit a lead online. Only use your real email address (a burner at that). Email everyone back saying you want to lease a vehicle with all your terms (months, miles, accessories/options). Let them know how much TOTAL money you are going to put down (should be just first payment or $1000 if you want to do that much). Tell them you are going to buy in the next 48 hours at the dealer that gives the best up front all included (taxes/tags/fees etc) payment. When you go to the lowest dealer, if everything is as they quoted you, buy it. If not, go to the next dealer.

    Don't beat them up too much more than that and make a purchase. If you aren't interested in buying, don't waste everyone's (including your) time. EZ PZ.

    Everyone who has problems buying cars has a problem doing it because of themselves. Buying a car isn't fucking rocket science.

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    Went to a car dealer, test drove a 2014 model car. Asked for a price on it. They gave me one, I said I'd think about it and left. The next day I called them and said if they brought the price down to X I'd buy it, they said OK. Went in, and after I'd spent an hour going through related paperwork they brought out a car.....the 2013 model. Insisted that this was the car I test drove, and this was what the offer was for. Wasted over an hour of my time for what? Hoping I wouldn't notice? Hoping I'd be too sick of shit after drowning in paperwork for an hour that I'd just say fuck it and take what they offered me?

    Fuck car dealers, fuck them right in the ass.

  68. #68
    scientia potentia est Cad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xequecal View Post
    Hoping I'd be too sick of shit after drowning in paperwork for an hour that I'd just say fuck it and take what they offered me?
    They always pull something like this, and yes they're hoping you're mentally locked into the deal.

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