Oh good, something new.
Friending some random awesome dude in my 30s and still being able to do content with them at max level.
Time = Skill.
Not having to leave good friends out of raid night because they fucking suck at everything.
Punishment for being a shit human.
I know it doesnt. just because you are the fattest and neck beardest virgin in the basements doesnt mean you are god tier
Items with no level requirement
Items that transcended stat/item levels
Competition for rare monsters and resources
Character progression that doesn't reset every zone/patch/expansion
I miss being fourteen and being able to neckbeard it without consequence.
What is with these kids nowadays? It's "catass". Get it right.
People asking me A/S/L.
Ability to kill any NPC, I'm tired of being told who's my enemy and who's my friend.
The uncertainty (invisibility might go off anytime, your spell might fizzle, slow not sticking...etc).
Trains! Enough with this leashed nonsense. I want NPCs to aggro on their way back to their spawn point too.
The Journey. Set us free; don't "tutorial" our ass for a long time. Don't set a pre-defined paths for us. Create a world and let us explore/adventure/meet other people.
Itemization. Stop this Common, Rare, Epic shit. No more level-requirements (or reduce them to few items if necessary).
Getting lost/No Maps; with GPS maps (which is necessary because of how the game is design) is just boring. Can't I just delve into the world and try to see landmarks and using them to direct myself in the world?
That's just to name a few. I know the game I want is not an "MMORPG" more of a "World/Adventure Simulation". Maybe someone will come up with a new genre which scratches that itch.
“If you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth." - Joseph Goebbels
The ability to have a conversation in a group of people while you hang out and play. The fast pace, short fights are nice sometimes, but i feel like much of the social aspect died when everyone had to spam a button every 1.5 seconds to be playing optimally.
That being said, that doesn't mean I want to return to the days of hour long or longer fights, somewhere there has to be a decent compromise.
Nothing's stopping you in newer MMOs. Of course, you meet less people because you group less, which is a shame.Friending some random awesome dude in my 30s and still being able to do content with them at max level.
Wat.Time = Skill.
When done well, I agree. The enchanter is my all time favorite class. The problem is that pure support classes are nearly impossible to make work in modern raids (max player caps, tightly tuned), since there will always be an optimal number of them to bring, and any surplus will just be wasted. And if there is one thing WoW did unquestionably better than EQ it was raids. Do you remember how fucking boring and unchallenging EQ raids were for 90% of the players?Support classes.
See above. The EQ model of "tank + CH chain + however many else you want to bring" was fucking terrible. WoW raids, except MC, were a million times more challenging and fun for every member than anything EQ ever did with raids. The challenge and fun in EQ was in groups, not in raids.Not having to leave good friends out of raid night because they fucking suck at everything.
Yes.Punishment for being a shit human.
Last edited by Elerion; 10-09-2013 at 12:18 PM.
Mostly I miss MMOs actually having more content and longevity than standard games rather than less. I haven't played an MMO for longer than a month since WoW.
We need to examine the basic principles behind MMOs and what they are supposed to accomplish in the simplest terms, because instant gratification and being done in 3 weeks is not a good foundation to build these games on.
I feel I've seen this thread before....
Good itemization. You know, where items are unique looking and rare. The first year or two of Everquest where you could literally tell who was a badass just based on what gear they were wearing.
Mostly the grand scale social interaction. I feel the "massive" has been taken out from under MMOs for a long time. I loved raiding in WoW with 40 people. I loved zerging in DAOC with literally hundreds. Anymore the focus is now on groups no more than 10 people doing raid content. Some argue that is a good step but it is always something I've missed and it seemed to die out with WoW's first expansion.
Mostly I miss other players that don't suck and coherent content geared to groups of those players.
I don't want to play "Game: The Mathening", but that's pretty much all they have been lately.
I think I miss all the free time that I used to have. I liked a lot of MMO's that were released after I graduated uni, but not being able to play 14 hours a day was not giving me the same feeling.
I don't miss anything. When I was heavily into MMOs I was a miserable social reject with no friends, no life, and no aspirations in life beyond reaching the next level in my fantasy world.
I miss gaming before Thottbot. I never thought it was necessary to whip out an engineering calculator to decide which gear/weapon you wanted, but people did it.
Difficulty requiring skill to overcome. Developers are afraid to make ADD shitheads mad by denying them content that they suck too badly to beat. I don't have the time to invest in raiding anymore, so I shouldn't be able to see everything.
I also miss giant raids of 50-70 people. Reducing raid content to 24 people means only the best 24 can raid and we are forced to leave guild members behind. It also makes it difficult to train new members the scripts because every spot is critical. And the large, guild raids were.........shock FUN! They are in the guild because we like them and they are good players. So why should I have to leave them back in the guild hall?
For those that miss training, you can do it in WoW now on Timeless Isle. A lot of the ox dudes do AoE and ground attacks that can one shot squishies and many of the ox dudes don't leash properly (f u burning rush...shit has like a 2 cd).
I forgot to mention that my post was mainly talking about high school. MMOs made me miss a ton of typical high school stuff so I don't miss the time sinks, the addiction, etc. at all.
I miss the days when you could play a MMO and public chat channels and all discussion of it wasn't related to how much better some old MMO did it or how it copies every other MMO.
(Not really, that's the best part!)
I just miss the feeling that you are in a world with a long challenging struggle ahead. Unlike today where you just feel you are in the flavour of the month MMO that you will blast through in 3 weeks and then be bored of. I don't miss the extreme tedium of EQ (hell levels etc), but I miss the fact that the mobs were hard and not to be taken for granted. You could easily be killed by just one of them, so engaging in combat was something you had to be ready for and you had to know how to play your class. And managing mana actually mattered because it wasn't infinite. Nowadays you can just attack 5 mobs and spam 1234 and everything explodes, and if all else fails, you just run away. EQ wasn't like that at all.
The main thing I miss though is just how people used to be back then. It wasn't just EQ it was the entire internet. I played other games in the 90s and I used various chat rooms and people were really nice. There was no trolling (or very tiny amounts) and people were good conversationalists. In games like EQ people would talk to strangers and ask them where they lived and chat about stuff. There were very few acronyms so you would see in chat, "Hi everbody, would anyone like to group up with a level 23 Necromancer? I was thinking of exploring Unrest". Nowadays it's just, "lv 23 nec lfg". And people really chatted, they were playing the game but partly because of all the downtime, people had to communicate and work together and keep each other company. Now its just people who are forced together and it interrupts their solo quest grind and they dont even want to say "hi" half the time.
And my number 1 gripe of all..... I fucking hate that people don't think for themselves anymore. People would ponder stuff like Str and Dex or whatever, make their own minds up, and go with it. Nobody can do that any more, go in to any modern game and the chat is FILLED with people asking questions. Where do I hunt at lvl 1? What is the best class in the game? What stats should I use for a Wizard? How do I equip an item? How do you move hotkeys? Can any gm halp me? Wot clas is most needed at hi lvls?
It's just a constant barrage of people asking how to play. Nobody is willing to think for themselves anymore, even in games like Vanguard which some players like to pretend is a hardcore game. But you can mouse over the stats and it tells you exactly what they do. Yet people still demand answers from the other players. It is most infuriating when you play on a small server with a tiny population because you see the same people asking guidance on EVERYTHING. In modern games its just constant spam because there are so many new people trying it out, but play something like Vanguard or EQ Mac and it's like this:
Badazzdood: wot is teh best class?
Wizmasta: depends what you want to do
Badazzdood: solo and shit
Wizmasta: then probably a disc
BadazzDisc: wot stats i put in dis?
BadazzDisc:: WOT STATS I PUT IN DIS!!!!!!!
Wizmasta: uh str, vit, wis or something
BadazzDisc: were i hunt at lvl 1?
Wizmasta: your starting zone
BadazzDisc: i dinged were i go at lvl 2?
Wizmasta: the place next to your starting zone
BadazzDisc: how do i equip this hat?
Wizmasta: click the hat and then click it on your head
BadazzDisc: were 2 hunt at lvl 3?
BadazzDisc: WERE " HNT AT LVL $!!!!!!!!!
Fuck modern gaming.
I miss not knowing wtf is going on and not really thinking about it anyway
basically i miss being 13 years old. good times
what do i miss most about MMO's? playing them! seriously, haven't played a MMO since vanguard 6 years ago. from everything i've seen, i haven't missed much since though. my kingdom for a decent MMO to play.
fapping and drinking Surge while I raped Koreans with a 2D war fork
I have to agree with Needless training people was a blast... Grab a ton of Mobs run to zone and FD )
I guess a lot of people weren't aware of informational websites and damage parsers "back in the day", but that doesn't mean that they weren't there pretty quickly. There were formulas you could use to determine which piece of gear was better for DPS, sites to look up to tell you how to do quests, to search for gear on, etc. Maybe not like....the first few months of EQ or something? But definitely there by Kunark, and raiders at least knew and used them.
I miss the unknown and sense of danger.
The only thing I really miss is rare items and items that are very hard (but possible!) to obtain.
I miss keeping up with all of my shows while "playing" Everquest.
The #1 thing I miss is being able to help noobs and low level players.
Cannot give items away because they are BoP, level restricted, so quickly replaced it wouldn't matter anyway, or programmed not to drop for higher level characters. How I loved giving stuff away, and now the best I can do is say hand off a pile of in game currency. Buffing low level players which is also mostly restricted now, and watching them go berserk was so great.
Yes twinking, buff-botting, high levels farming low level regions, spawn stealing etc and other negative things would re-emerge but the games being programmed to factor out generosity in the interest of game/economy balance makes me wish some middle ground could be achieved.
I miss the Ranger's Glade.
An MMORPG that keeps your undivided attention is a game that you won't be playing for long. You can't treat them like single-player games. There's nothing wrong with slowing things down.
I miss grinding out levels with a perma grind group sitting in an open dungeon. I miss crowd control and feign death pulling. I miss mobs that are not locked to your group. I miss trains, training that douche over there and being trained in turn. Most of all I miss the fear of dying in a messed up place like the plane of fear zone-in in Everquest.
"It's better to look ugly and win, than pretty and lose."
I miss world exploration before flying mounts came around. Everything felt bigger and more dangerous. Now you just hop on your flying mount and ignore all the sexiness the devs built for you. I felt it most in WOTLK when going to Icecrown Citadel. They had designed this big badass citadel with these enormous steps surrounded by massive mobs. OH FUCK THAT, JUST FLY TO THE ZONE-IN. Flying mounts shouldn't exist imo.
I miss playing them. Kid, work, wife...party's over.
I miss having to be nice to people. In origianl eq I had to try and be nice to everyone because there were so many ways that you might need help in the future. Druid port, cleric rez, KEI, corpse pull, ect. If you were a known asshole in eq, life was going to be tough.
"Woman have the right to understand that they are not to be treated as though they are not understood by those who have great understanding of things like these" -Hillary Clinton
I miss the social part of it. Some of the most fun I've ever had playing a game was while camping a spot in EQ, spending hours bullshitting with the group, cracking jokes and talking nonsense. Now, nobody ever says anything.
I also miss the sense of danger that EQ had.
There is no time to even type something into chat as they will be 4 mobs down by the time you hit enter, then scream at you "WHY ARE YOU FALLING BEHIND"!
The newness of playing with people from around the world.
Being able to bring anyone to a raid and not having to tell good people they couldn't come because they weren't the best players.
I miss the days when people actually played MMO's and didn't bitch about how bad they were all the time.
...I don't think that time ever existed in the history of ever. I wasn't there for UO and Meridian 59, but I was for vanilla EQ, and people definitely bitched the entire time.
I miss Selo's. It was the crack that kept you on a bard.
What I miss is mostly in my head:
- The ability to spend tens of hours a week immersed into an MMO without feeling guilty to my RL responsibilities (I played EverQuest in my college years, those were the glory years)
- The feeling of entering a fresh, new world when playing a new game, entering a new zone, whatever
- Being able to withstand hardships (5 hour corpse runs, 48 hour camps, etc) which allowed the involved people to really bond. When playing a MMO now, I just want my ubah gear right away with no roadblocks.
I really wish I could feel the same way about an mmo like I did ~10 years ago, but nah not gonna happen.
Apart from that, the whole MMO scene has grown bigger. There are not many games left where you have a small, tight-knit community. I remember in EQ, if you fucked up badly, the whole server knew your name and you'd be on the shitlist. Better delete that char and reroll son.
Nowadays, everyone is just a nameless face in the crowd, only interested in his/her personal gain. Fuck the rest.
In this thread: a bunch of guys wishing for a Delorian to take them 10 years back to a time when they still lived with their mom, didn't have a job or a family and could spend 12+ hours a day grouped with similar people with an almost total lack of RL responsibilities, farming content for games that were so new the devs were still blindly feeling their way with what worked and what didn't work.
I miss those days too!
I don't know about most of the neckbeards on these forums but I know I miss specific and obvious game mechanics and philosophies that are no longer adopted in any game on the market now. I've got tired of repeated some of the mechanics that made older games better.
I don't know about your teenage life but it has nothing to do with the freedom those games gave us. Just because you're married doesn't mean you can only play WoW-like games. Just because you have a job doesn't mean you can't spend 2 hours a day in a game, and that's the "average" amount of time I've spent on a game like EQ. Sometimes I don't log in at all during the day while sometimes I stay for 4 hours straight. On weekends sometimes I do an 8 hours session.
I spend at least 2 hours a day playing random games. I honestly don't see the link between giving us freedom with a harsher more immersed world and "the time at hand". There's no link between "I ain't got time for dat" and making a game that suits such a niche market. I understand you don't like that kind of games; who said I want you to. But you have to understand there's a market for this and "rose colored glasses" argument is flawed.
I, and many others, need a game which is about Exploring, Cooperation with others and Delving in a world. I want a world that forces you to team up with others. I want a better and improved economy system. I want the ability to kill anything and deal with the consequences. I don't want fetch quests (and hence I don't need a GPS map) I want to go in a huge dungeon kicking a door after another (non-instnaced) until I reach floor 12, with my group, meeting other adventurers (some might need help, others buffs us and leave). I want a slower combat pace; no more "action" oriented bullshit (keep that to where it belongs) and definitely no more whack-a-mole kind of "play the UI" game. Combat should be simple, yet engaging, no need for a trivial "attack rotation".
I want death to be harsh enough to fear it. I don't want to follow "my story" because it isn't my story... it's the character's story (which is everyone else's story). I want, instead, do MY story... my own adventure... alone or with other people. Interdependence skills (whether class specific or crafting specific).
“If you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth." - Joseph Goebbels
Aaron believes EQ's playerbase was largely comprised of care-free teenagers. That's hilarious.
I wasn't making a quib at EQ specifically, as I never played it, though I have read nostalgia threads posted here and on FoH for the past 5 years. I also wasn't belittling anyone, as my last line specifies that I, too, miss the olden days when MMOs weren't just a clone of a clone of a clone, all (mostly) catering to the same audience.
Perhaps I should explain a bit more by what I meant when I wrote "...games that were so new the devs were still blindly feeling their way with what worked and what didn't work."
Many of the game mechanics that are all but extinct now, such as meaningful death (xp setback, loot loss, etc.), very rare world bosses, meaningful levelling (i.e. not race to max), non-instantaneous world travel... the list goes on, you know what I mean, have all gone the way of the dodo because they were put in these first gen games at a time when the dev's had no idea what would work and what would not work (since they were pioneering a new genre). In the end these were mostly (if not all) phased out as the mass of gamers do not like them (unlike most of the posters on this forum). The sad fact is (and the point of this whole thread, right?) is that these things most likely will never be coming back, unless someone makes a very, very, niche market MMO with a small but dedicated population. Now, that could happen, but the chances of it are small.
As for those complaining about the first part of my post, well, guess I didn't do a good job of sarcasm. Sorry if I rustled some Jimmies. Back when I was starting out in this genre over 10 years ago now I was at University and I would play 6+ hours a day week days and 12+ on weekends. Same was true of those I knew who played - who were practically all in school too. One by one they dropped out of the MMO market, or drastically cut their times to maybe 1-2 hours a few nights a week and maybe 2-3 hours on weekends due to work/family. Those of you who can juggle work+family+sleep+lots of MMO time, well shit you're lucky I guess!
Oh, and if someone does actually make a Delorian with the time set to about the year 2000 then give me a call, I'll hop right in!
I just miss progression and solid controls. These days it seems every MMORPG is a choice between a good engine or endgame content, never both. I really, truly cannot comprehend what it is that makes developers refuse to create a game that has both. Titles like GW2 and Neverwinter had good engines with modern controls and interesting mechanics, but they forgot to actually include a reason to play for more than two weeks. Then you have shit like FFXIV with the promise of raiding but mechanics that are ten years old and controls that feel like an alpha test. There have been quite a lot of MMORPGs that have had everything except one of these two crucial elements, and it's just such a waste. So many have been so close but have seemed to lack the frankly very basic and trivial knowledge to include these key elements in their games. Rift was near the mark but extremely grindy and Trion inexplicably moved all their developers to a different project right after release, causing the game to be on life support from the start.
I mean, think of what GW2 could have become if there had been a competitive, engaging raid scene. Instead they chose not to have it, and the result is a forgettable game that only gets mentioned in historical context even just a year after its release. They're games with real potential and they all either fail right away or just fade into obscurity after the launch hype dies down. The same will happen with FFXIV, in six months it'll linger right next to GW2 and other such games that didn't quite suffer a disastrous failure but just became nothing with less than 100k people who play or care about it. I expect the same will happen with Wildstar and ESO as they have no endgame, and then some smaller studio will try to develop an MMORPG with endgame content but neglect to make the mechanics tolerable. It's like goddamn clockwork. Why the fuck has nobody managed to get both right since WoW? Is it really that difficult?
FFXIV proved that there's a genuine demand for a traditional MMORPG that doesn't try to reinvent the genre, but it has to have the basics in order or people won't play it. If the controls are shit and the skills and class mechanics belong in the DAoC era, you're not fucking getting anywhere in 2013. I just hope it has at least served to inform more competent developers that there is a market for a new MMORPG that isn't groundbreaking and innovative but simply has the features that make people care: mechanical depth and raid content you can progress through with your guild and get some recognition for if you do it well. When you get right down to it, these two things were the key to WoW's success -- and Everquest's, for its time. For an industry that notoriously tries to piggyback on its more succesful predecessors, it's uncanny how they refuse to actually copy the right things.
Last edited by axeman; 10-16-2013 at 07:32 AM.
Being surprised. Genuinely surprised. It's the internets fault, not MMO's. But I remember recently playing a MMO where I thought a harvesting node was glowing or on fire. I could have stopped turned around and checked, but my brain told me if there was anything special about it I would have heard already.
There's nothing left to discover. Run down a hall or explore a zone in EQ1, and you looked in every nook and cranny. Nowadays, everything is online 10 days before beta ends and developers spend absolutely no time trying to create virgin experiences for gamers as they're completely beholden to their parent companies and making a profit.
Someday there will be a game where the Devs actually enforce NDA's and create a system and a game where everything is so dynamic that nothing other than maps/skills will be spoilers. Hopefully.
Last edited by Jait; 10-16-2013 at 07:43 AM.
^ we all really wish that but I think by the time it happens, we'll all be holodeck fucking Emma Watson's ass.
I'll sum my most missed with this,
Overall game mechanics , accidental or not, that allow Fansy the Bard to happen, horrifying and delighting many a player.
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