Half, how is this a question? Unless you're in some kind of ridiculous sugar daddy situation it isn't up for debate.
I've looked over the interwebs in search of an answer to this one, but decided to create another account so I can ask this question in disguise.
My girlfriend and I have been getting along great. She has basically moved in and i'm trying to decide what to do with expenses and such.
I own a house with a mortgage and my expenses are around 1800.00 per month when all is said and done. Should she be expected to pay 1/2 of everything? or how does that work? She's not going on my mortgage unless we're married, thats for sure. But should she be responsible for 1/2 the mortgage? I've heard yes to 1/2 of everything, and some have said just 1/2 of the electric and gas bill.
I submit to the great ReRolled my dilemma.
I doubt this needs a poll, but would like some advice please.
Half, how is this a question? Unless you're in some kind of ridiculous sugar daddy situation it isn't up for debate.
The only reason I would ask her to pay is to keep roommates happy. Since you dont have any, I would say if she cooks and cleans, we square.
My girlfriend makes about 40% more than me, but we split everything down the middle (I pay a little more for food since I eat more). However, we also bought our apartment together and are both on the mortgage.
If I were you I would probably figure out fair market value for renting a room in a comparable house and then ask for 10% or 20% less than that price. After that you split all actual bills (utilities, internet, etc) down the middle. Food is a little trickier as it really depends on what/how much you eat.
Does she swallow? I'd take that into account.
Half the mortgage less whatever equity you accrue each month. From an accounting standpoint it is fairly clear cut, there's no way she should be paying off your place for you. To do it properly, you would actually look at the present value of the average equity gain over the lifetime of the property.
Alternately, you could look at the estimated asset's value at the end of the mortgage less present value of the payment stream and assess a monthly cost based on that. This gets considerably more tricky with risk assessment (and reduction of risk based on a second payee) but honestly, that should be baked into the mortgage cost already.
Tough question, we really can't give you a good answer without knowing a lot more about your relationship.
If she doesn't have a good job she shouldn't pay shit.
If she has a good job I wouldn't charge her half since it's a mortgage. I'd charge what I would charge to rent out a room in the house. Perhaps around $400 a month.
Depends on how great things are going and where you plan to have them going. Did you guys discuss any of this before she moved in or has she mentioned her expectations? I'm guessing no.
Ask her what she thinks, would be my advice. If things are going great this shouldn't be an awkward conversation. If it is awkward conversation, she probably shouldn't be moving in at all. I would also recommend talking about what happens if things DO go south. Having exit plans now saves a lot of pain for both parties later.
If you charge her rent, she should construe that as a landlord/tenant relationship, should she choose to fuck with you when things go sour.
I'm on board with the "equivalent of renting a room" + 1/2 bills idea. Unless special circumstances are in play, this seems fair and equitable.
Shit hit the fan when my last girlfriend moved in. I was charging her $350 a month flat to live with me in my 3 bedroom 1100sq ft apartment. I own a duplex and live on the top floor. Total mortgage was $2239 a month and I get $1500 for the bottom floor and I thought it was more than fair to charge her less than half the remaining mortgage payment. She agreed it was completely fair. One month later she's complaining she shouldn't have to pay anything because I make X amount more than her and it's unfair because now she can't afford to go on vacation to Myrtle Beach. We tried to come up with an equitable solution but she eventually admitted she just wanted to be taken care of for the rest of her life. That was the end of that relationship.
I tried to say OK well then how about you take care of the place (cook, clean, etc). I would not recommend even mentioning something like that because she flew off the handle claiming I was a misogynist after that one. Most women take that kinda shit very personally.
Although I guess it's different for everyone. Some people are nurturers and caregivers and that works for them. I am not one of those people. I can't stand it when women want all the benefits of equal rights with none of the responsibility.
I still say dont charge her. If she is a piece of shit and doesnt pull her own weight, or chip in because she feels its the right thing to do, better to know now.
Wouldn't the landlord/tenant relationship maybe cause issues when cohabitating? Would he need to give her notice if kicking her out? Can he even give her notice if she's paying rent and hasn't done anything to violate the standard tenant/landlord laws of the state/county/city they're in, assuming they don't have a contract which doesn't contradict those laws in any way?
As far as the legal aspect goes, wouldn't him paying for everything actually make it easier for him to kick her out without her turning into pyscho bitch and finding some sleazy lawyer to fuck with him (ever see Love Stinks)? Unless I guess they wrote up a contract, which would probably cause some relationship issues for even going there.
She has basically moved in?
Need more info, particularly as bold above me said, have you discussed this before she "basically moved in." If not I think it is a bit ridiculous to say to someone oh and by the way, since you're basically moved in now I'm going to require you to pay half my mortgage and utilities and you get nothing in return. 1/2 of everything is absurd, are you married? Is the house half hers? Is this some random stranger you don't care about? Then why do you feel asking her to pay half is even an option?
If she knew coming in she would be expected to pay rent I'd say 75% the cost to rent a decent apartment in your area is amicable.
Bros, if she ain't gonna pony up like a normal, respectable adult she sure as shit ain't signing a pre-nup, and a pre-nup is necessary.
Too many variables. Terms cannot be resolved.
Start at half and then modify according to situation. You might wind up paying more than half, you might wind up paying less than half. This is actually a question you should be discussing with HER, not your e-bros.
Lots of good things will come from discussing finance with the girlfriend that wants to share your place.
I'm glad I asked here. Thanks for the replies.
More on her:
Makes almost double what I get paid
Gives great head
Thinks I'm handsome etc
The only thing i've said so far about her helping out with "the bills" is that we need to discuss it soon. She's (so far) cool with it and agrees to 'help out' etc
I'm barely scraping by on what I make, but i've been fuckin making it happen by myself and don't plan on risking my house or anything I own for nobody. These last few months she's lived with me, i've been in the red by a hundred bucks here, hundred bucks there, but we've been doing stuff together too.
What i'm saying is it would really help me out if she paid half, but I don't want to even ask if that shit is uncalled for or not up to the latest internet standards.
We both cook and clean equally. She has no prob keeping the house spotless as the day she moved in.
Personally I wouldn't let a woman live with me unless we were very serious. And I wouldn't date a woman who didn't have a real career and wasn't going to school. If she's going to school fulltime I don't mind being her sugar daddy until she graduates because it'd be for her benefit.
But let's say I fall in love with some bimbo who has no income and needs a place to stay because she had to leave her last place. I'm not going to take her welfare check for it. But then she has to take care of pretty much everything in the house, lol. When my wife was inbetween jobs I did jack and shit around the house.
What would you charge a buddy who wanted to move in with you? Not 1/2 the mortgage I'm guessing...
Figure out the going rate of renting a room is in your area and use that as a baseline. Then 1/2 the bills.
Since she makes twice what you make, I would just say half down the line: bills, housing, etc.
Women fought long and hard for equal rights so it's time for them to start paying their share.
If the relationship is serious, she should pay 50% down the line. Assuming engagement/marriage is in the outlook, this benefits both of you in the long run as it will end up being half of hers anyway.
Your bank should have given you the amortization table and it will probably be on your monthly statement too as far as the principal/interest goes if you go that route. Or you could just use/DL Excel's default one, or one of the 50000 loan calculators on the internet.
Any way you go, again, see what she thinks. I would see what she says about 50%. Her answer might be telling. Does she keep her own room? If so, the FMV for a room in the area isn't a bad idea either. Whatever you do, make sure you're both perfectly clear and on the same page with the arrangement. Don't let it be up in the air. And don't let her give you head while you have the talk. You will end up paying for everything.
Why can't I find a woman who makes twice as much as I do? I wanna live on easy street and own boats and shit.
Try and be reasonable about the whole thing and if at any point in time she becomes unreasonable, kick the bitch to the curb because you don't want to be in a relationship with someone who isn't reasonable.
It's pretty simple really or at least is simple enough if you aren't submitting any of it to a governmental agency and don't need an exact answer.
If you just want to ballpark it though, take your mortgage value in total minus the cost of the property itself. That's a decent base cost or at least close enough for this. Then just divide that be however many months are in your mortgage (total, not remaining) and half that would be her share based on use-costs. This IS NOT proper accounting but it should give you a reasonable figure rather than doing a full TCO. It also never hurts for the "fairness" perception if there's a little light math involved but not enough to scare her.
Maybe I'd ask her to buy all the groceries, since she'll be doing all the cooking!
Depending on the state/province, if she's paying half the mortgage and they're cohabitating, wouldn't that put him at risk of her getting half the equity in the place if they break up? And that aside, I don't see how you can ask someone to pay half of your mortgage if they're not getting equity. They should pay whatever the equivalent rent would have been, or half of it I guess.Originally Posted by Araysar
Last edited by Eomer; 09-25-2013 at 07:35 PM.
I guess thats a good point. In Chicago a month's worth of rent in a decent neighborhood is just a tad below monthly mortgage payment in the burbs just outside chicago so over the years I just equate paying rent to being the same as paying a mortgage
Eomer is right, I would just charge her half for what the rent equivalent of that place would be.
I've had a similar situation with my girlfriend. I have a mortgage on my condo but I make quite a bit more than her and it didn't seem to fair to split it down the middle. I have no utilities, they're all included in my condo fees. So we added our two incomes together, figured out what % each one makes up and then split the monthly costs down those percentages. Hers worked out to roughly 35%, which was pretty much my condo fees. We drafted up an agreement and signed it, that it was understood the money she paid per month wouldn't be seen as her paying into the mortgage and I'd retain ownership in the event of our break up. It worked out pretty well where she was paying almost all the condo fees and I'd pay the mortgage.
equitable, fair, and smart to cover your ass. Yup.
Edit: The problem is she makes twice as much as he, so could be construed as taking advantage of her.
Lock it down if she makes twice what you do.
I did 60/40 before we got married. I made way more money. I ended up paying the rent and she paid for food and utilities. I like that fact that we each were responsible for our own bills. but just to clarify we worked on the bills together so i saw them every month just to make sure they were paid (she had a great Spreadsheet) I will admit the whole purpose of this arrangement was for me to not have to go grocery shopping. My wife also did the majority of the house work, (naturally with out being asked or complaining) so I did not mind paying a little more
Also, what Trip said.
There seems to be a wide variety of reasonable solutions, find out which works best for both of you, and at any point in time she flips the fuck out and becomes unreasonable then end the relationship or don't allow her to move in.
It's tricky, but if they are being done for you, and she's good about maintaining the home, cooking your meals, and what not? That changes things. So as others have said, it's a question that's dependent on your situation.
Definitely not half. Without her name on the mortgage, that deal would be lopsided. I would just flat out ask her what she thinks is fair; tell her 50-50 isn't fair to her, but ask her what % of the mortgage she would think is fair. Anywhere around 40% is probably a good starting off point. And split the utilities 50/50. Hell, she still may even insist that she pay 50% of the mortgage.
But you are right that we didn't have to tip-toe around the subject, but there wasn't any romance involved, only bromance.
Depends entirely on each of your circumstances and how grateful / helpful she is. If you charge her some miniscule amount and she's constantly dangling on your nuts, cleaning, and cooking.
Well that's just the America we all dream of.
This girl is the breadwinner. I doubt you'll have much issue just discussing it with her and it's very likely she will be very reasonable.
Half the interest, property taxes and insurance. Also half of the utility bills.
Well, I guess one thing to consider is cost of local renting. I've said ask her to pay half, but from my point of view, that's a damn good deal. I just did a quick search on rentals in my area, and everything is going for $200-$400 more than my monthly mortgage, which includes homeowners insurance and property tax. So I guess if you live some where that renting is far cheaper... /shrug
Just discuss it with the woman. As you can see here, you've got opinions covering quite a broad range.
Solution: Take her entire paycheck and give her your credit card.
Unless your incomes are vastly different, everything 50/50.
Gonna chime in with another "talk to her about it" post. When me and my wife made the decision to move in together before we got married, we talked about finances and how to split things. She had the home and paid the mortgage and she didn't ask me to "pay rent". I ended up taking over the utilities and when we bought a new car, we were going to pay half each, but I ended up just making the payment every month. It's was basically 50/50 split of responsibility with finances, but we were solely responsible for each bill...none of this "hey can i get your share of the light bill this month?" If you don't plan on engagement/marriage, I wouldn't bother with the whole moving in thing anyway, it will be more trouble than it's worth. If you guys are thinking this is for real and are serious, you should be talking to each other anyway and discussing your future together. Communication is key and if you can't talk to each other about finances, you're doomed from the start. Money is one of the top reasons folks get divorced, so better to get on the same page together now, than resenting each other later down the road because you feel she isn't pulling her weight or vice versa. Trust me, it will build up if you don't talk openly about it now.
I appreciate all the insight! Thank you!
I do understand that we'll need to discuss this between us, but didn't want to go into the conversation without a little research in the subject. I'm glad I asked about it. The opinions vary from 'nothing' to 'half'. I have a general conversation planned out and will let ya'll know how it pans out.
MS Word doesn't have a template for this handy.
How would you word this document to not sound douchey?
is the relationship serious or not?
lots of good advice given above. find out what she WAS paying a month in rent.. it gives you the ceiling.
how my wife and i have it setup, she has her checking account, i have my checking account, we have a household account -to pay mortgage etc. i put in 1600 a month into the account, honestly, i have no idea how much she sticks into the account a month ~1k ish(i don't care as long as all the bills are paid). it covers all the bills & we have extra- i suck at paying bills on time so i let her handle that account (my checking account i do food, out to eat times, gas and my CC bills)
figure out how much in household bills there is a month (include taxes/house insurance unless that is rolled into your mortgage)
setup a house checking account for household bills - only- your total household expenses(utilities/taxes/mortgage/water&sewer etc. ) a month are probably ~2300 for everything a month. figure 2500-2600 a month has to go into the account- creating a buffer for unexpected expenses-
you put in ~2k a month - to cover the mortgage- your house, you paying (no issues)mortgage. if she was paying 1k+ a month in rent negotiate ~700 a month-minimum- that she is responsible for to go into the account- i have no idea where you live so i cannot know what the basic monthly rents are, in MY area 1k a month is considered middle/low on rent, in boston it is more like 2k a month in rent+ depending on which PART of boston you are in) just you have to make the amount Less that what she is paying now..
make sure you keep track of all expenses etc and then you will have more money a month to pay off CC bills and do stuff, she will have more money a month to pay off CC bills and do stuff.
just make sure you don't "dip" into the household account for personal stuff.
if you break up and she moves out, close the account, any remaining money in the account is split on how much money- as a percentage- she put in, say you both put in 3k a month on average for a the life of the account together and spent 2300 a month in bills, after a year the account would have 8400 in it ... if she put in 1k a month, vs your 2k a month, she would get back 2772 from the closed account, while you would get the remaining, if she -averagely- put in more or less, her % she got back- after bills paid would increase or decrease depending on what she put in.
if you get married ...you now have next egg to grow for vacations/kids/a life together.
How bout you be a fucking man and pay for your shit yourself, you pussy.
For those of you who think that paying "half the mortgage" entitles her to half the house are fucking retarded. She can pay for it all and as long as you are the only one on the mortgage paper itself your fine.
Edit: Just finished catching up on the thread. There is a lot better advice than mine. It was bad, and I feel bad : /
Last edited by dioblaire; 09-26-2013 at 08:36 PM.
Since you own the house and she doesn't, she 100% isn't paying the mortgage for you. What a retarded idea.
Having your girlfriend pay you rent... sounds weird to me. Maybe tactfully raise getting a % of what she pays atm and use reaction to judge how compatible you are.
I would go with bills/food only.
Not treating her as an equal who should pull her equal share is kind of misogynistic. "I'm a man and men take care of women, just cook and clean for me like a good woman does for her man"
This is difficult because she will be paying for a house that you will own. I didn't understand it all but Northerner used some complex words and figures so I'd go with his advice. This could turn ugly in the chance you break up so I don't know what kind of contracts and shit you'd need to save your ass. I would probably just accept BJ's and cooking/cleaning as payment.
Can we get some solid, real legal information here? Seems to me as long as she signs a lease and the rent is fair market value or lower she has no claim whatsoever to anything with the house. And if she's paying more than fair market value she would only then be entitled to that money back plus interest.
I'm sure this shit is on Judge Joe Brown somewhere, let me dig it up. Oh wait black people don't buy houses so let me check Judge Judy
Unless you get married, she will never have a claim to any portion of the equity in the house. At worst, it'll just be one more thing she yells as she's throwing an ashtray at you.
Common law marriage might be an issue, just check your local laws and kick her ass to the curb before it becomes official.
This isn't all that fucking difficult.
See above.Originally Posted by Big Phoenix
Some states/provinces do have common law or cohabitation laws on the books where after a certain time period a couple is married, for all intents and purposes. Although actually, it would appear that in Alberta it doesn't extend to property rights, but you could be on the hook for spousal support: http://www.commonlawrelationships.ca/alberta/Originally Posted by Khane
Those shacking up with a chick need to be aware of that kind of thing.
Last edited by Eomer; 09-26-2013 at 07:37 PM.
The way it works in my house my fiance gives me $500 a month and pays for groceries (which is maybe $300/mo.) I pay for everything else which includes mortgage and bills. Overall it is more lopsided on my end since the mortgage alone is more than what she pays me but I also have fewer personal bills like my car payment and student loans are less. I've had people seem weirded out that I have her pay me to live in the house. To me it seems perfectly reasonable. We both work full time. But I do make a bit more money than she does. Around in the $20k range.
Just tell them they're thinking of it wrong. She's not paying you, you are both contributing to an ongoing cohabitation fund which you administrate.
In this day and age a woman living in a mans house for free is the thing that would strike me as weird. I would think to myself, "She must be able to suck the chrome off a trailer hitch".
Jesus, am I the only married man who shares a bank account with his wife - and that's it, no other accounts? I like it - there's no "her" money or "my" money. There's just our money. We're both pretty frugal and have *somewhat* similar spending habits so it works fine. Once in a bit she'll be like "dude you ate out for lunch 3x this week, cut that shit out" - but I like that, it keeps me on track. Basically she's in charge of the money, and anything more than $40 or so we run by each other.
She grew up pretty poor, so she can pinch a penny like a motherfucker. I grew up lower middle class, where my mom was in charge of the finances (even though dad made more) because she would make sure everything worked out, even during a rough spot. Guess I'm just used to that.
When my wife and I first lived together (after dating for 5 years) she moved in to my existing apartment. She had just finished her PhD and post doc and had tons of debt from moving for internship, aforementioned post doc, actual program, etc... For two years I paid for everything letting her concentrate on paying off the debt so that when we eventually got married we'd be in a better position.
When we bought our house we just kind of defaulted to the position of me paying the mortgage (~$1,500 ish) and her taking care of power, cable, groceries, house cleaner, and some other incidental things.
Now that we're married it's probably worth sitting down and really looking at stuff more closely, but there isn't any real intent to get a shared checking account or anything else. Basically she still pays for her shit, I pay for mine, and neither of us spend out of control.
My wife and I's financial advisor recommended highly against sharing everything.
We have our personal accounts and a shared Emergency Account, Savings Account & Checking Account. We both contribute to the Savings Account and Checking account equally each month. All of our combined expenses come out of the checking account. Emergency account was funded fully when the account 50/50.
Seriously just split it 50/50. Women's rights movements have removed the Man pays for everything regardless shit.
Both of the above comments are only applicable in dual income situation.
I don't understand why a financial advisor would recommend you separate things. If you're married, having separate accounts isn't going to make a difference in a split. The only reason I've wished I had a separate account is for getting gifts for the other person. I will say, divorce has been mentioned before (not sure if it'd ever happen) and the thought of trying to divide up all our assets after a decade makes me cringe.
Co-mingling is very bad bro. Imo always keep your bank accounts separate and have a third for common bills which you both deposit money into.I don't understand why a financial advisor would recommend you separate things. If you're married, having separate accounts isn't going to make a difference in a split. The only reason I've wished I had a separate account is for getting gifts for the other person. I will say, divorce has been mentioned before (not sure if it'd ever happen) and the thought of trying to divide up all our assets after a decade makes me cringe.
Oh I forgot divorce laws are fucking retarded and very much favor women so you have to take those into account. The basic idea still remains the same though, if you live with your partner you two should split the bills 50/50, this isnt the fucking 1950s. Unless you are making a lot more than she is there is absolutely no reason for you to be paying a bigger share of the bills than she is. Equality mother fuckers.I'm not saying in a legal sense, although cohabitation laws in your state/province could definitely come in to play in that regard. I'm saying that people are discussing what's "fair", and saying that 50% is "fair". Maybe if dude was renting his place. He's not, and presumably he's building equity in his home by paying his mortgage. It's not "fair" for her to pay 50% of said mortgage if she's not going to be entitled to whatever her share of said equity is if/when she moves out. Therefore if you want "fair", she should be paying 50% of whatever the fair market rent of such a place would be, which is most likely less than 50% of the mortgage.
This isn't all that fucking difficult.
Last edited by Big Phoenix; 09-26-2013 at 09:14 PM.
Now that I am married we are set up as follows:
One main account that both cheques are deposited. Our mortgage comes out of this account and other bills that I can not pay via Credit Card.
We have a main savings account with a separate bank (ing direct, its very nice) I want it separate so I do not see it daily on my normal online banking screen. Its an old account so I guess its technically in mine name. My wife has one as well but I don’t think we ever use it.
Each has their own seperate "personal account" these accounts are the "daily use accounts" and are funded by an Equal allowance from the main joint account. We do $150 every 2 weeks for “life incidentals” we do not make a big deal about the odd time we go outside of our allowance but we always talk about it. IE last week I bought D3 for my ps3 and she got new boots, both purchases put on our CCards.
I also have my own savings account that I put a tiny bit in each month out of my allowance, this is really for Brithday/Christmas/anniversary gifts and the occasional bag of weed that I don’t want to put on a CC and might be a bit more than my “allowance”
As mentioned I try and run every expense I can as an automatic withdrawal of my credit card. The set up with my bank gives me a premium CC with no annual payment. My wife has a card that is split off my CC account. Basicly we get one bill and can see each others transactions. I requested my wife keep her old Credit card (preferably with a zero balance) just to he can maintain her own credit history. Since I have started running everything through my credit card I have paid interest once (my bad on missing a statement) otherwise I pay it off religiously every month. Our bank offers rewards like normal banks (gift cards and trips) but mine actually offers cash towards paying off mortgage and line of credit. Every 15 months or so I get a $1000 gift card from points to pay off my Line of Credit. Now my line of Credit has been $0 for a few years now, so I rack up a $1000 charge then pay it off with the GC that day.
I would never do this kind of set up before we got married. I asked a ton of people what they did before we decided. IMO there is just so much more power and utility in working with combined finances. The law is going to see it combined anyway so why not take advantage of the power of larger sums of money. Also very helpful when doing long term planning to make sure you see the whole picture.
I tend to take care off all the money but I have purposely asked my wife to take care of the few bills that do not go on the CC. It is very important no mater what you do to keep both sides involved in the process.
How fucking dense are you? A mortgage isn't a "bill". He's building equity in his house paying that mortgage. It isn't fair or equal to expect the woman to pay half the mortgage if she's not going to get half the equity it generates if they part ways. If that IS going to be the arrangement, then you damn well better get it in writing and document the shit out of it. Again, this isn't a difficult concept.Originally Posted by Big Phoenix
I think its fair to charge her how you would charge a buddy for enting a room. You would not ask him to pay 1/2 of your mortgage and expenses, right? Thats insane. Plus she is your girl, right? If she has a job and all that I would ask her to pay for the utilities or some shit.
I was in the same predicament and she didnt pay shit. She moved in I paid for it all, but we ended up getting married so our relationship was pretty close. Even back then, my money was hers and her money was mine type of thing. Also she owned a condo that she was paying for that we ended renting out. and by then we were basically pooling our money together so it didnt really matter.
Tell my escrow and interest charges every month to my mortgage about how it isn't a bill
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