oh thank you jesus jesus jesus.
In September 2013, Brad McQuaid let it slip on Twitter that he's gone from SOE and on to a new project. He made the vague reference that it relates to previous tweets about a niche MMO with a smaller budget not geared toward the mainstream. The project was eventually announced as Kickstarter-bound and Brad had assembled a new team. Legends say a ninja warrior caught wind that the game was to be called Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen.
Pantheon is set to launch on Kickstarter sometime in January of 2014.
1/13/14: Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen by Visionary Realms, Inc. Kickstarter
Work in progress on the OP, will be updating with more information.
Bigdogchris compiled list of requested features
Brad looks at the past and the road ahead
On feature creep:
Jason Weimann -- But seriously, do something with that Twitter that isn't ad related.
Ben de la Durantaye
Pantheon Twitter account
The concept art
Last edited by Draegan; 01-14-2014 at 07:29 PM.
/speculation@Aradune and to be clear, you’re gone from SOE again or are you referencing your departure after Vanguard?
Brad McQuaid @Aradune 9m
@gogojira_ Gone but going forward I intend to work as closely with them as possible.
Wants to use eq landmark technology? or at least voxel/storybrick?
He needs to hire a project manager and not shoot up all the development money.
Otherwise he has always had some good design ideas.
Vanguard was over ambitious and mis managed but it was closer than any of the other shit released since WoW to what I want in a game.
This will be worth it just for the psychotic Utnayan rants if nothing else.
For as much as he's tweeted in the past about the tech being great, or that building upon it is a smart idea, I sure as hell hope that SOE is letting him build upon the technology. I don't know if I've said this before but even if the hardcore audience doesn't end up liking EQN they should at least hope for the game to do well. More great MMO tech for all pl0x.
Hopefully Brad realizes he sucks at management and keeps his head down as a developer.
People actually expect something good, after Vanguard?
Maybe he will go grab some of the people from Schillings mmo...
"It's better to look ugly and win, than pretty and lose."
I have more faith that this will be more fun to play than EQ:Next.
Speaking about Shilling I wonder what will happen with all the work they've done. Wish someone could salvage parts of it.
I wonder how much vicodin it'll take to get a free game.
Originally Posted by supertouch
for those who asked:
i haven't sucked her penis but i have stroked it. it sounds odd but i don't view it as a masculine organ on her.
So what exactly did he do in the six months he was back with SoE?
Probably told them that EQN was fail and it wont have any longevity.
"It's better to look ugly and win, than pretty and lose."
I would like to see Brad and Hartsman make a MMO together that way we can finally put to rest if either of them is actually worth anything to the industry. Not to be mean but they both seemed accidental in their work or maybe it was timing. Regardless I would like to see Brad put out a "lessons-learned" MMO.
Kickstart a Vanguard reborn/EQ hardcore mmo maybe
Last edited by arallu; 09-10-2013 at 01:11 AM.
Does he own any IP material or will anything he makes quasi solo be renamed but we all know its "EQ3" etc etc
But excited to see what happens- maybe this will be a kickstarter?
I'd buy into the kickstarter at the percocet tier, Oxycontin tier would be too strong of an investment for me.
As long as he stays out of management/ceo and sticks to game development there could be something there. Oh and leave the engine development to the pros no more chunks.
Oh FFS, that means I have to wait another 5 years or so to be "done" with MMOs? I thought I would be done with EQN.
Oh god jesus. I didn't even read this thread, just the title. BRAD, HELP US
I wonder if any of us will still give a shit in 2019 when this comes out
Brad if you're reading, we'll pay $50+ for a sub-based game, so please, make it sub only.
I hope he does this via Kickstarter. This thread will be fucking awesome when it inevitably misses its proposed dates on Kickstarter. I'm not even remotely interested in this until there is more than just shill-speak coming from Brad.
It better be a real EQ3. Vanguard was a great attempt.
Just want to post early in what will become an epic thread even if the game sucks.
Edit: And going against my better judgement, I am already on the hype train.
Look, I don't have anything against Brad; he was a driving force behind making a game we loved (and loved us black and blue back), he had some troubles, and now he is working again. I sincerely hope he makes a great game. Anyone calling on him like MMOheyzeus, though, needs a serious dick-punch for clarity.
Itz is right, at least, about all of the abused MMO-spouses waxing nostalgic about "how great the risk/reward was, and how a death penalty will make things exciting again, and you know, all of the downtime and forced grouping and spawn camping was great for community and socialization, and I know that they out-and-out lied about the effects stats had for the first year, and Fiery Avenger wasn't really in the game but it was still exactly what I want in an MMO" will all be in one thread.
Last edited by Rhinohelix; 09-10-2013 at 03:18 AM.
To all the Brad haters: I feel you, but here and now in this industry, beggars cannot be choosers.
I fully get being reserved with hype, but I'm not going to lie and say I'm not excited as shit. At the very least, it represents another attempt at someone trying something outside of the standard, dull ass MMOs we see year in and year out. Who knows if it's going to work out, but I love that someone is trying (and sure, having it be someone closely tied to EQ1 is a huge plus for me).
Based purely on what Brad has been tweeting about for a while now we can assume it's going to be targeted at a niche and made on a lean budget. Good. Fuck yes, even. Most of the best games I've played this year were created with this mindset. It doesn't always work out, but the demand is there for this mindset that cranky older gamers (late 20s and older are grandpas in gamer years) are cursed with. Everyone uses Dark Souls as an example and that's well and good, but Kickstarter is proving it, too. Keiji Inafune is annihilating Kickstarter with his old school Mega Man clone Mighty No. 9. That could have been Capcom money but they were too stupid to understand that there's a demand beyond AAAAAA and shitty iOS games.
Prediction: Brad is leveraging his contacts and close friends at SOE to create this game using EQN tech and maybe a buck two of Smedley dollars. It's going to be designed with a fantasy world and aim for what people want out of an "EQ3." Smedley will probably get first option to fund and publish this project if it looks good enough to make money and it'll get the EQ coat of paint. I don't see this going to Kickstarter unless Smedley completely passes in the end.
This is what jumping to plaid feels like IRL.
This shit is... mind blown. Did someone slip me some acid? I mean we're in Wonderland now, right?
I have very little faith in Brad, but compared to the rest of the utter shit in this industry, he's like a fucking beacon of light.
That doesn't so much speak to him, but the the level of utter disgrace this whole industry is in.
It's just a little guesswork based on the nature of his tweets. He loves the tech, but says he reserves judgement on the actual game. Brad is incredibly close with Smedley and SOE and he served his time developing on Vanguard and EQ1 for the past year or two. It works out for everyone, I'd think. Brad McQuaid gets a shot at redemption, Smedley gets to keep the project within reach and could snap it up if he likes what he sees.
People are way too black and white about what the MMO genre needs or doesn't need. There's room for the big boys to slug it out with obscene amounts of money, but the safer option is sometimes what's perceived as the riskier option. A smaller audience can sustain an MMO with a lean budget. I'd think the risk for company-altering failure with a project that costs 100s of millions of dollars would be a lot scarier, but it seems most publishers think the opposite is true.
What is the over/under on how many pages this thread will have before any actual info is released?
I'll call in favors with every goddamn pharmacist I know if it'll help get whatever this is released in under five years.
Last edited by Carl; 09-10-2013 at 05:19 AM.
I have far more faith in the vision of Brad McQuaid than I do the vision of some of the Sham-WoW hucksters out there today (Georgeson and Dariani) selling so-called "next gen" MMO snake oil. Unlike them, Brad has an authentic depth of knowledge and passion about what makes a great MMORPG experience. I'm also disappointed in Jeff Butler for the fact he ignored the legacy of EQ and dismissed the EQ community with EQ Next -- Jeff knows better too. The MMORPG community truly needs a worthy successor to EverQuest instead of just another WoW clone with some "revolutionary" bells and whistles that nobody will care about 6 months after release.
Despite his past failings, Brad's heart and soul is in the right place. Failure is only bad if you fail to learn its lessons.
Now that Brad is no longer with SOE and shackled to their dysfunction, I'd like for him to start posting again on his blog or do some guest articles. I'd like to hear what his vision is today and how he feels about the sorry state of the MMORPG industry. His commentaries were some of the most inspirational the MMORPG has ever seen. I just hope this time he can get the execution part right.
Last edited by Wolfshead; 09-10-2013 at 08:32 AM.
Don't mean to be too much of a downer (badum ching!) but this is an Aradune quote from 2010:
"After a needed three[-]year break from 11 years of working on massively multiplayer games with the large teams, budgets, and 3-5 year development cycles[,] I think this will be a nice change of pace. I'm also very excited to be involved in a genre that is relatively new to me. I look forward to bringing MMO design principles to casual/social gaming,"
I'm not really sure what the context is so maybe it's nothing. Was he working for some FarmVille company a few years ago or something?
Edit: nvm found it:
Brad next co-founded in May of 2010 a new start-up in the San Diego area. The new game studio focused on next generation sophisticated casual and social games. Unable to find the right amount of funding, but learning a lot about free-to-play gaming, Brad left the start-up in January 2012
To make a "hardcore game" for lack of a better description, one has to take risks. To make a random shit game, one just copies. Both are potentially profitable. Copying is just easier.
This is pretty much why we will never see another game going backwards in terms of design, but they are going forward (in money terms, mind you) towards the new age of facebook games, more or less complicated, good for a public of braindead people that need to play farmville, candy crush or shit like that even when sitting on the toilet.
The videogame industry is too big, too much money involved, little propension to risks (still huge room for idiocy or incompetence of course).
Brad had a lucky moment, good idea, mid to poor execution, but being innovative was enough to get money. I remember reading that EQ costed 9 million dollars.
Today with 9 million dollars you won't make a super AAA title, maybe one with shit graphics or ugly animations or unresponsive UI and with a ton of other issues.
I gave up on waiting for the next saviour MMO, there won't be one. We have to deal with the fact that games are what they are and enjoy them for what they are. I'm almost 40, I don't really care about poopsocking on a game, certainly I could use a more challenging one, but when I look hard enough for it, these games are there. Even WoW with challenge modes, hardcore raids, etc is okay in small bites, what's missing is a bit of the old human interaction. People nowadays flame you if you chat or tell a joke, no matter if recount is saying you're better than them (for what is worth).
I don't see this ending well.
I would guess VG reboot ?
Fine I'll buy in, if I was Brad McQuaid I would build a hardcore mmo that was accessible to all but hard to master. My game would have an EQ class and role system, faction through actions(kill a guard lose faction with his city), some form of alternate advancement, a unique take on combat that is more fast paced then EQ, housing, raids that are not just the kill the same npc every week, pvp with arena/bg, siege warfare and open world advancement, non linear leveling that includes open dungeons with no static spawns and last bot not least take the best of EQN and throw it in for good measure.
Seems like a lot of work but I am sure Mr. McQuaid can pull it off.
"It's better to look ugly and win, than pretty and lose."
Suspected this was coming after some back and forths with Brad. I think he may of got permission for EQ3? The industry was due to head in a niche direction and I think SoE sees the promise of small team/budget and expand if the game takes off. I'm expecting that's what we will get.
A small MMO made by Brad and co? I can get behind that. I can never trust the guy with a big budget project again, though.
Last edited by vGrade; 09-10-2013 at 10:52 PM.
Who is Brad working with on this project? Also, why such a short stint with SoE? Didn't they put him in charge of EQ? I'm thinking this was known in the beginning. They picked his brain and ran some things by him for EQNext then tossed him in the corner. I'm thinking he was just biding his time to see if a couple things worked out before he tossed his SoE paycheck aside.
Would fund the kickstarter to just get in closed forums alone , the VG closed beta forums were quite the entertainment.
Honestly though, I'd hope he's learned his lessons from previous trainwreck with the Vanguard process , and if truly was shooting for those of us who've wanted to throw up over various EQN elements , I'd probably fund a little and sub/buy a game
he made just because Vanguard still to this day is the closest model of a game I'd like to play. A modern , more functional VG/EQ3 type game is far closer to what I want to play than most of the shit thrown at us the past few years.
(FFXIV ARR is only think remotely close so far for me in enjoyment terms)
Also someone send him a message to come sign up and start posting here
He needs to be kept on a medium-length leash by a money-man as CEO. Otherwise he'll fuck up again and spend 98% of his money on Art Assets and Design and 2% on coding tools (i.e. VG Debacle 2.0). The single biggest reason why Vanguard failed was that he tried to do too much - if he had cut out a couple of races and saved them for a later expansion, cut out a couple of classes (in addition to the two he did cut) and saved them for a later expansion and cut out Thestra, VG would have shipped ontime and relatively bug-free.
If people (for example, game devs) aren't comfortable being badmouthed on the internet, then they need to keep in mind what the odds are that their actions are going to be offensive to an arbitrary person on the internet. The intelligent people (hopefully some game devs are among these intelligent people) are going to realize that the odds are for all practical purposes: 100%, 100% of the time, no matter what the actions and audience are. Game devs expecting to get the /r/EQN treatment is a symptom of a much larger problem that exists in the real world.
Devs don't expect it. They know they won't get that treatment everywhere(e: the reddit treatment).
And that's why they'd probably stay far away from here.
Last edited by Mellent; 09-11-2013 at 02:51 AM.
Anyway, looking forward to playing an EQ3 with less brown. Although, I have to admit, without the first crack exposure that was EQ and friends playing to draw me back in, I don't know that I would have stayed with it; I burned out/ragequit a few times, very much the mirror-opposite of his comments re: EQN. Mad props still, though, for that great work during SOE Live, bro, even if you weren't able to stay on the optimism express.
Last edited by Rhinohelix; 09-11-2013 at 03:08 AM.
The difference here is, people speak their minds. If you aren't up for that, and just want people sucking your cock, stay away. I really despise the hero worship some of you have for Devs. Hint: nothing you say is going to influence anything they do. That you think otherwise is "cute".
That's fine, that's how this board is and will stay. Accept it or move on. But how dumb do you have to be to not understand why developers don't post here? Better yet, how weak is your thought process if you can't see that people can be honest and critical without vomiting a string of expletives? It's hard to grasp, but there is a middle ground between dev ass kissing and raw hatred.
There's a lot of people registered, but all things considered, daily posters are a small group. It's irrelevant though, it's what this board is and will continue to be and most of its community wouldn't have it any other way. I honestly don't care, I just don't think the mystery of "where's that developer" is a hard one to solve.
Edit: and agreed tad, most of the ideas have been on repeat for years now. Lurking a few days as a developer could give most of the insight you'd need from here and probably any other MMO board.
Last edited by gogojira; 09-11-2013 at 04:00 AM.
Hello, everyone. I am the lead dev on this. I can't say much, but I can say it will be the first FTP MMO released on iOS and Android. Our technology allows us to rapidly iterate on highly prevalent mainsteamisms that comprise the teamistic, open, flat-landular approach that will be guiding our fore-looking and virtually-encompassing holistic method of delivering consumer-level content based upon a monetization model that is free of fiat monies and the bell-curvian, bell-curvian stance of piggy-banking and small micro-transactioning. We have seen the future, and we are writing it, coding it and living it.
If you would like to know more about this exciting new MMO
BMQ and I might get some gruff for putting much of the info behind a paywall, and if you'd like to read our reasoning for it
The first 25 posters may qualify for 100 free rants.
Beyond that, thank you all for reading this post. If you'd like more information, 1000 rants unlocks all tiers of information.
If they can get a proven solid engine and not go overboard with the art it shouldn't take years and years to get something tangible out there.
The developers posting on Rerolled comes up once in a while and I've posted a couple of times why we tend to stay away. Some of the reasons other people mentioned, but overall, the reason developers don't interact with players much is because players are very egocentric. They can rarely see the big picture and also drastically favor what they personally like. That is fine, because part of being a professional is getting past what you personally like, so it isn't something you would expect from non-professionals.
Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING in game development is a trade-off or a compromise at some level. This goes for design considerations, technology limits, and ultimately implementation cost/time. Nobody gets everything they want, not even the developers, and no developer wants to get cursed out and called an idiot for a very difficult decision (based on real-world constraints) that either they made or especially one that someone else made.
I don't think most developers even mind talking why they made certain decisions, or what they did wrong, but no one is going to bother wasting their time with a subtle and detailed postmortem when the only thing they can expect in return is hate and insults. It isn't interesting or fun, so why would someone spend their leisure time taking abuse? If that's your thing you'd probably want it from a hot dominatrix instead of fat neckbeard.
It has nothing to do with being "truthful", you can be truthful without being an asshole. We even have a word for it, tactful.
As to Vanguard, to speak at an incredibly high level, the major component that led to Vanguard being less than it could have been was design.
You fucks have memories shorter than my dick.
not even remotely interested without something to see.
Are people just supposed to be hopeless for mmorpgs all together? I never understood the negativity and constant harping on what happened in the past. If this or any other title sucks then it sucks. What's wrong with atleast hoping something doesn't?
With that said, there is no second coming of Christ with McQuaid. You people are delusional if you think anything will come out of this. Relic designers stuck in old hat design may be fine for about 500 people clamouring for that game (until they play it for a week, realize they cannot go AFK for 5 minutes to bottle feed their kids, and uninstall thinking "Boy this sure was easier when I sat on my ass all day after a rough 3 hour college day") but it won't sustain. Needless to say there is a big difference in developing a game in 1997 basically doing nothing more than bringing Diku-Mud to a graphical world (Not to say that was an easy feat back then) and developing a game today with substance, strategy, and persistence.
PS: Financial backing is from SOE. I can also guarantee you a pseudo kickstarter even though it's already green lit. Which is a shame - kickstarter should be for Indie development.
Most honest feedback is going to be negative. What people didn't like and what they would like to see changed is the majority of what they will tell you about. No one is going to tell you that your game has nice dirt graphics in it they will however tell you that the dirt graphic is missing in x part of x area leaving invisible ground. Dev listen to players for a reason and that reason isn't so we can tell them how wonderful they are. I do however support a kid gloves rule for handling Dev's on a forum. Simply put they should not be treated in the same way as a normal poster. People venting there personal distaste for a Dev as a person should be brought under control if that Dev is also a poster with issue being decided in Dev's favor.
Other then that nope you should just accept that 90% of internet feedback is going to be negative.
Last edited by Siddar; 09-11-2013 at 01:56 PM.
Maybe what this genre needs is a little return to the dark ages. Because where its seeming to go these days, there is not really a light at the end of the tunnel. If you know what im saying (lobby gaming). Is this guy the one to do it? Who knows? He did have some good ideas in Vanguard. Great class dsign, great world design, but all wrapped up in a layer of shit that took 5 yrs to fix.
I enjoyed Vanguard but lack of end game content made me lose interest I did participate in Ted Club though, that was some fun raiding =p
Yeah that stuff did get fixed eventually. The lag was never there when the game was sub based, it only arrived as a side effect of them rushing out the f2p system. There was lag issues and chunk crashing and whatever else, but I am pretty sure they have fixed that now. But as with everything Vanguard related, it was way too late. It was so stupid because a lot of new people gave the game a shot but the crashing and the lag was there for quite a few months, right from the start of f2p. So I am sure that most of the people who came along to try the game, ended up quitting for more or less the same reason the original players quit in 2007. So stupid.
The free to play thing, same story too. At first there were restrictions on lots of stuff and it sucked. Because most of the more interesting classes (Blood Mage etc) were only playable if you paid. And there were race restrictions and lots of gear restrictions. The whole thing was a stupid mess. But they also fixed that now which actually leaves you with a very generous game. You can play all the way without paying anything at all. All the races and classes are free and you can do anything, go anywhere, and I think they even removed a bunch of smaller restrictions too, like the 2 plat limit and whatever else. The only restriction of note now, is that most yellow items and above need to equipped using a potion or sub. But I know from experience that you can play to about 50 with just blue items and get by just fine. And if you do get anything exceptional as loot, a potion with about 5 charges is really cheap.
So it's very generous, but again, far too late. I still play it from time to time and the server is dead. It may have some players in the 50+ kind of range but from 1-50 you rarely see another person and the chat channels are mostly silent. It's quite sad, but it was totally predictable because of the way SOE handled the game right since the start.
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