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Thread: Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen - #1 Thread in MMO

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    MMO Refugee gogojira's Avatar
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    Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen - #1 Thread in MMO

    W3lc.jpg

    In September 2013, Brad McQuaid let it slip on Twitter that he's gone from SOE and on to a new project. He made the vague reference that it relates to previous tweets about a niche MMO with a smaller budget not geared toward the mainstream. The project was eventually announced as Kickstarter-bound and Brad had assembled a new team. Legends say a ninja warrior caught wind that the game was to be called Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen.


    Pantheon is set to launch on Kickstarter sometime in January of 2014.


    1/13/14: Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen by Visionary Realms, Inc. Kickstarter

    Work in progress on the OP, will be updating with more information.

    Bigdogchris compiled list of requested features

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdogchris View Post
    Community Requested Features

    I will continue to edit and add to the list. It will be cleaned up over time.

    Brad Quotes

    Brad looks at the past and the road ahead

    On feature creep:

    Quote Originally Posted by Aradune View Post
    This game has a target audience -- it is not designed to be a huge all-things-for-all-people game. It needs to be focused, and that focus needs to be making sure we're we're making a game that that audience wants. This game will be smaller, it's feature set specific, and the focus will be on making it fun first for that audience. Feature creep would destroy this game, period.
    On Pantheon's scope and developing a world the size of Norrath

    Quote Originally Posted by Aradune View Post
    Quite possible. EQ was done in 3 years for around $8M. March 96 thru March 99. We peaked with about 23 people but most of the time had fewer than that. The tech was primitive by today's standards. The tools probably wouldn't even be called tools today. And the people? We were clueless but determined
    Modern concepts being tested, but not forced in

    Quote Originally Posted by Aradune View Post
    We have some 'modern' ideas, one of which I really like. But I'm not going to get into it until we have it implemented in-game so we can really try it out. If we don't end up liking it, there's plenty of tried and true mechanics we can fall back on.
    Pantheon drops the dots

    Quote Originally Posted by Aradune View Post
    FYI, we are not planning on using a dot system like VG did. This could always change, but that's the plan right now.
    PVP is a stretch goal so insert all your tokens, BigFlex

    Quote Originally Posted by Aradune View Post
    All I can say right now is PvP is a stretch goal. If we raise enough $$ we want to implement it correctly. We don't want to just hack in a quickie PvP system. That's really how we're approaching a lot of major features -- we're making sure we have the time and resources to do this stuff right.
    Players within a class can differentiate themselves, but your class is your class

    Quote Originally Posted by Aradune View Post
    If you're a cleric, you're a cleric. The finding of exotic abilities and spells is going to be a lot of fun. But it's still subject to a solid class based game. It allows you to customize your abilities to some degree (a meaningful degree) but it's not true multi-classing. You're a cleric who has some cool spells that many other clerics may not have. But you're still primarily a cleric and have a role to play. I'm just throwing out numbers right now, but it will be something like you're 90% cleric and then 10% something a bit different because of some crazy rare abilities or spells you've acquired by taking some risks in the depth of a dungeon.

    Let me know if that makes sense.
    Much to tad's delight, OT/DT is in Pantheon

    Quote Originally Posted by Aradune View Post
    Yes, Pantheon will have ot/dt and likely some other more sophisticated means by which you can group certain players or mobs together for whatever reason you come up with.
    Feedback will be based around the people Pantheon is aiming for

    Quote Originally Posted by Aradune View Post
    Agreed. If we do something like this, it has to be done carefully and *meaningfully*. We want the feedback of players who are already drawn to the game. We don't need feedback from people who don't like the game and just want to change it into something else (WoW, etc.) Gathering that kind of data doesn't help anyone. Nor should any of you worry that suddenly a big group of people pop up on our message boards, demanding we fundamentally change the game, and we listen to them. That's simply not going to happen.
    On flagging

    Quote Originally Posted by Aradune View Post
    Yes, and it's even possible that in order to achieve your next level, that you'll have to go through a dungeon, perhaps one that wouldn't let you in before, and complete some 'Achievements' in order to advance. Like I've hinted in the past, our Achievement system will be integrated into how you reach your next level, unlike other games where they're just 'cool' to unlock. Unlocking them in Pantheon will have meaning.
    The team on Twitter

    Brad McQuaid
    Corey LeFever
    Jason Weimann -- But seriously, do something with that Twitter that isn't ad related.
    Ben de la Durantaye
    Tony Garcia
    Noel Walling
    Pantheon Twitter account


    The concept art


    c0m3.jpg

    2.jpg

    t3r.jpg

    m1nu$VR.jpg
    Last edited by Draegan; 01-14-2014 at 07:29 PM.

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    Michael Jordan Azeth*'s Avatar
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    oh thank you jesus jesus jesus.

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    Detritus Lasch's Avatar
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    @Aradune and to be clear, you’re gone from SOE again or are you referencing your departure after Vanguard?


    Brad McQuaid ‏@Aradune 9m
    @gogojira_ Gone but going forward I intend to work as closely with them as possible.
    /speculation
    Wants to use eq landmark technology? or at least voxel/storybrick?

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    Here for the Gangbang Hekotat's Avatar
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    Please god be what Vanguard was supposed to be.
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    MMO Refugee gogojira's Avatar
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    I'm betting Storybricks at least.

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    Registered User mkopec's Avatar
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    Vanguard revisioned?

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    Michael Jordan Azeth*'s Avatar
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    Registered User Xaxius's Avatar
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    Here we go again...

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    Registered User Kedwyn's Avatar
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    He needs to hire a project manager and not shoot up all the development money.

    Otherwise he has always had some good design ideas.

    Vanguard was over ambitious and mis managed but it was closer than any of the other shit released since WoW to what I want in a game.

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    This will be worth it just for the psychotic Utnayan rants if nothing else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JordanJax View Post
    This will be worth it just for the psychotic Utnayan rants if nothing else.
    So true! I loved EQ. I enjoyed Vanguard minus the shitty performance. I will follow this new game for sure.

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    For as much as he's tweeted in the past about the tech being great, or that building upon it is a smart idea, I sure as hell hope that SOE is letting him build upon the technology. I don't know if I've said this before but even if the hardcore audience doesn't end up liking EQN they should at least hope for the game to do well. More great MMO tech for all pl0x.

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    Registered User Saban's Avatar
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    Shut up and take my prescription drugs!

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    Registered User Lithose's Avatar
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    Hopefully Brad realizes he sucks at management and keeps his head down as a developer.

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    People actually expect something good, after Vanguard?

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    Registered User Rogosh's Avatar
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    Maybe he will go grab some of the people from Schillings mmo...
    "It's better to look ugly and win, than pretty and lose."

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    Registered User Xaxius's Avatar
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    I have more faith that this will be more fun to play than EQ:Next.

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    Brazilian 0.o NativityInBlack's Avatar
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    Speaking about Shilling I wonder what will happen with all the work they've done. Wish someone could salvage parts of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xaxius View Post
    I have more faith that this will be more fun to play than EQ:Next.
    Well he talks about niche games a lot so it's either going to be a small project that becomes Hello Kitty Island Adventure 2.0 or it's going to be EQ3. Take your pick

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    Registered User Xaxius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mellent View Post
    Well he talks about niche games a lot so it's either going to be a small project that becomes Hello Kitty Island Adventure 2.0 or it's going to be EQ3. Take your pick
    I have more faith that Hello Kitty Island Adventure 2.0 will be more fun to play than EQ:Next.

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    Delicious Noodles Noodleface's Avatar
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    Vanguard is still good. Go ahead, go try it. You won't be disappointed, guaranteed. Better than FF14.
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    Don't Infract Me Bro Burnesto's Avatar
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    I wonder how much vicodin it'll take to get a free game.
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    Registered User Itzena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azeth View Post
    oh thank you jesus jesus jesus.
    Yes, thank God for this. If it stops the grognards shitting up real MMO threads and concentrates them into this one, it'll be worth it for that alone.

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    Vulgarian
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    So what exactly did he do in the six months he was back with SoE?

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    Registered User Rogosh's Avatar
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    Probably told them that EQN was fail and it wont have any longevity.
    "It's better to look ugly and win, than pretty and lose."

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    Registered User Muligan's Avatar
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    I would like to see Brad and Hartsman make a MMO together that way we can finally put to rest if either of them is actually worth anything to the industry. Not to be mean but they both seemed accidental in their work or maybe it was timing. Regardless I would like to see Brad put out a "lessons-learned" MMO.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogosh View Post
    Probably told them that EQN was fail and it wont have any longevity.
    Well that at least would have been something positive.

    My guess is all he did was just learn the existing SoE system of making games and will now take that knowledge into a new mmo project.
    Last edited by Siddar; 09-10-2013 at 01:14 AM.

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    Registered User arallu's Avatar
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    Kickstart a Vanguard reborn/EQ hardcore mmo maybe
    Last edited by arallu; 09-10-2013 at 01:11 AM.

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    Registered User xadion's Avatar
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    Does he own any IP material or will anything he makes quasi solo be renamed but we all know its "EQ3" etc etc

    But excited to see what happens- maybe this will be a kickstarter?

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    Registered User Saban's Avatar
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    I'd buy into the kickstarter at the percocet tier, Oxycontin tier would be too strong of an investment for me.

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    Registered User mkopec's Avatar
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    As long as he stays out of management/ceo and sticks to game development there could be something there. Oh and leave the engine development to the pros no more chunks.

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    Oh FFS, that means I have to wait another 5 years or so to be "done" with MMOs? I thought I would be done with EQN.

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    Oh god jesus. I didn't even read this thread, just the title. BRAD, HELP US

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    Registered Hoser Quaid's Avatar
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    I wonder if any of us will still give a shit in 2019 when this comes out

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    Brad if you're reading, we'll pay $50+ for a sub-based game, so please, make it sub only.

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    Survived 9/23/2015 Soygen's Avatar
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    I hope he does this via Kickstarter. This thread will be fucking awesome when it inevitably misses its proposed dates on Kickstarter. I'm not even remotely interested in this until there is more than just shill-speak coming from Brad.

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    It better be a real EQ3. Vanguard was a great attempt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noodleface View Post
    Vanguard is still good. Go ahead, go try it. You won't be disappointed, guaranteed. Better than FF14.
    Vanguard was a massive shitpile for years after release. How are people forgetting this? Whatever Brad makes, if it even sees the light of day, won't be worth playing for years. There's no guarantee SOE will rescue his next failed project, either.

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    Just want to post early in what will become an epic thread even if the game sucks.



    Edit: And going against my better judgement, I am already on the hype train.

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    Registered Abuser Melvin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quaid View Post
    I wonder if any of us will still give a shit in 2019 when this comes out
    This.

    Also: Wheeee! More unsubstantiated hype! Just what I always wanted!

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    Look, I don't have anything against Brad; he was a driving force behind making a game we loved (and loved us black and blue back), he had some troubles, and now he is working again. I sincerely hope he makes a great game. Anyone calling on him like MMOheyzeus, though, needs a serious dick-punch for clarity.

    Itz is right, at least, about all of the abused MMO-spouses waxing nostalgic about "how great the risk/reward was, and how a death penalty will make things exciting again, and you know, all of the downtime and forced grouping and spawn camping was great for community and socialization, and I know that they out-and-out lied about the effects stats had for the first year, and Fiery Avenger wasn't really in the game but it was still exactly what I want in an MMO" will all be in one thread.
    Last edited by Rhinohelix; 09-10-2013 at 03:18 AM.

  42. #42
    Rav Scam-Free Zone
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    Hey, the plus side, this has a good chance of coming out before EQNext - those fucks are still trying to figure out what kinda game they want to make /shrug
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    The lag makes you last longer.

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    To all the Brad haters: I feel you, but here and now in this industry, beggars cannot be choosers.

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    MMO Refugee gogojira's Avatar
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    I fully get being reserved with hype, but I'm not going to lie and say I'm not excited as shit. At the very least, it represents another attempt at someone trying something outside of the standard, dull ass MMOs we see year in and year out. Who knows if it's going to work out, but I love that someone is trying (and sure, having it be someone closely tied to EQ1 is a huge plus for me).

    Based purely on what Brad has been tweeting about for a while now we can assume it's going to be targeted at a niche and made on a lean budget. Good. Fuck yes, even. Most of the best games I've played this year were created with this mindset. It doesn't always work out, but the demand is there for this mindset that cranky older gamers (late 20s and older are grandpas in gamer years) are cursed with. Everyone uses Dark Souls as an example and that's well and good, but Kickstarter is proving it, too. Keiji Inafune is annihilating Kickstarter with his old school Mega Man clone Mighty No. 9. That could have been Capcom money but they were too stupid to understand that there's a demand beyond AAAAAA and shitty iOS games.

    Prediction: Brad is leveraging his contacts and close friends at SOE to create this game using EQN tech and maybe a buck two of Smedley dollars. It's going to be designed with a fantasy world and aim for what people want out of an "EQ3." Smedley will probably get first option to fund and publish this project if it looks good enough to make money and it'll get the EQ coat of paint. I don't see this going to Kickstarter unless Smedley completely passes in the end.

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    HE A GOOD BOY Iannis's Avatar
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    This is what jumping to plaid feels like IRL.

    This shit is... mind blown. Did someone slip me some acid? I mean we're in Wonderland now, right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by gogojira View Post
    Prediction: Brad is leveraging his contacts and close friends at SOE to create this game using EQN tech and maybe a buck two of Smedley dollars. It's going to be designed with a fantasy world and aim for what people want out of an "EQ3." Smedley will probably get first option to fund and publish this project if it looks good enough to make money and it'll get the EQ coat of paint. I don't see this going to Kickstarter unless Smedley completely passes in the end.
    Are you trying to get me to masturbate on purpose?

    I have very little faith in Brad, but compared to the rest of the utter shit in this industry, he's like a fucking beacon of light.

    That doesn't so much speak to him, but the the level of utter disgrace this whole industry is in.

  47. #47
    MMO Refugee gogojira's Avatar
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    It's just a little guesswork based on the nature of his tweets. He loves the tech, but says he reserves judgement on the actual game. Brad is incredibly close with Smedley and SOE and he served his time developing on Vanguard and EQ1 for the past year or two. It works out for everyone, I'd think. Brad McQuaid gets a shot at redemption, Smedley gets to keep the project within reach and could snap it up if he likes what he sees.

    People are way too black and white about what the MMO genre needs or doesn't need. There's room for the big boys to slug it out with obscene amounts of money, but the safer option is sometimes what's perceived as the riskier option. A smaller audience can sustain an MMO with a lean budget. I'd think the risk for company-altering failure with a project that costs 100s of millions of dollars would be a lot scarier, but it seems most publishers think the opposite is true.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xaxius View Post
    I have more faith that this will be more fun to play than GW:Next.
    There you go.
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    What is the over/under on how many pages this thread will have before any actual info is released?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vilgan View Post
    What is the over/under on how many pages this thread will have before any actual info is released?
    EQ Next thread has about a third of the total posts in the MMO Forum, if that gives you any idea.

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    Registered User Leadaas's Avatar
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    I'll call in favors with every goddamn pharmacist I know if it'll help get whatever this is released in under five years.

  52. #52
    The thread killer Carl's Avatar
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    Is the mmo industry imploding?

    http://images6.fanpop.com/image/phot...00-245-170.gif
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    Last edited by Carl; 09-10-2013 at 05:19 AM.

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    Sucks at being a grammer Nazi. etchazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogosh View Post
    Probably told them that EQN was fail and it wont have any longevity.
    agree 100%. people can hate on brad all they want, but as broken as vanguard was, it's still better than just about anything that's currently out. EQN is just another WoW clone. brad knows that, and he's smart enough to know that it will more than likely fail a few months after launch and that a true successor to the original EQ is what a lot of people want (i know i do).

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    Registered User Wolfshead's Avatar
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    I have far more faith in the vision of Brad McQuaid than I do the vision of some of the Sham-WoW hucksters out there today (Georgeson and Dariani) selling so-called "next gen" MMO snake oil. Unlike them, Brad has an authentic depth of knowledge and passion about what makes a great MMORPG experience. I'm also disappointed in Jeff Butler for the fact he ignored the legacy of EQ and dismissed the EQ community with EQ Next -- Jeff knows better too. The MMORPG community truly needs a worthy successor to EverQuest instead of just another WoW clone with some "revolutionary" bells and whistles that nobody will care about 6 months after release.

    Despite his past failings, Brad's heart and soul is in the right place. Failure is only bad if you fail to learn its lessons.

    Now that Brad is no longer with SOE and shackled to their dysfunction, I'd like for him to start posting again on his blog or do some guest articles. I'd like to hear what his vision is today and how he feels about the sorry state of the MMORPG industry. His commentaries were some of the most inspirational the MMORPG has ever seen. I just hope this time he can get the execution part right.
    Last edited by Wolfshead; 09-10-2013 at 08:32 AM.

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    Registered Hoser Quaid's Avatar
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    Don't mean to be too much of a downer (badum ching!) but this is an Aradune quote from 2010:

    "After a needed three[-]year break from 11 years of working on massively multiplayer games with the large teams, budgets, and 3-5 year development cycles[,] I think this will be a nice change of pace. I'm also very excited to be involved in a genre that is relatively new to me. I look forward to bringing MMO design principles to casual/social gaming,"

    I'm not really sure what the context is so maybe it's nothing. Was he working for some FarmVille company a few years ago or something?

    Edit: nvm found it:

    Brad next co-founded in May of 2010 a new start-up in the San Diego area. The new game studio focused on next generation sophisticated casual and social games. Unable to find the right amount of funding, but learning a lot about free-to-play gaming, Brad left the start-up in January 2012

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    Who cares.

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    Italian bastard Miele's Avatar
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    To make a "hardcore game" for lack of a better description, one has to take risks. To make a random shit game, one just copies. Both are potentially profitable. Copying is just easier.
    This is pretty much why we will never see another game going backwards in terms of design, but they are going forward (in money terms, mind you) towards the new age of facebook games, more or less complicated, good for a public of braindead people that need to play farmville, candy crush or shit like that even when sitting on the toilet.

    The videogame industry is too big, too much money involved, little propension to risks (still huge room for idiocy or incompetence of course).

    Brad had a lucky moment, good idea, mid to poor execution, but being innovative was enough to get money. I remember reading that EQ costed 9 million dollars.
    Today with 9 million dollars you won't make a super AAA title, maybe one with shit graphics or ugly animations or unresponsive UI and with a ton of other issues.

    I gave up on waiting for the next saviour MMO, there won't be one. We have to deal with the fact that games are what they are and enjoy them for what they are. I'm almost 40, I don't really care about poopsocking on a game, certainly I could use a more challenging one, but when I look hard enough for it, these games are there. Even WoW with challenge modes, hardcore raids, etc is okay in small bites, what's missing is a bit of the old human interaction. People nowadays flame you if you chat or tell a joke, no matter if recount is saying you're better than them (for what is worth).

  58. #58
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    I don't see this ending well.

  59. #59
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    I would guess VG reboot ?

  60. #60
    Registered User Rogosh's Avatar
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    Fine I'll buy in, if I was Brad McQuaid I would build a hardcore mmo that was accessible to all but hard to master. My game would have an EQ class and role system, faction through actions(kill a guard lose faction with his city), some form of alternate advancement, a unique take on combat that is more fast paced then EQ, housing, raids that are not just the kill the same npc every week, pvp with arena/bg, siege warfare and open world advancement, non linear leveling that includes open dungeons with no static spawns and last bot not least take the best of EQN and throw it in for good measure.

    Seems like a lot of work but I am sure Mr. McQuaid can pull it off.
    "It's better to look ugly and win, than pretty and lose."

  61. #61
    Poor Communication Skills bixxby's Avatar
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    Get it out in under 2 years bro, I'm bored as hell.
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  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfshead View Post
    Brad has an authentic depth of knowledge and passion about what makes a great MMORPG experience.
    Brad has an authentic [drug addiction] and passion [for firing employees in a parking lot and not even having the guts to be present].

    There, FTFY.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leadaas View Post
    I'll call in favors with every goddamn pharmacist I know if it'll help get whatever this is released in under five years.
    Vicodin and Ambien is what brought us Vanguard. You'd think with all the nodding and lucid dreaming there'd be a lot less brown. This time make sure they slip him Adderall in place of his opiates.

  64. #64
    Retired RR Pantheon Mod Convo's Avatar
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    Suspected this was coming after some back and forths with Brad. I think he may of got permission for EQ3? The industry was due to head in a niche direction and I think SoE sees the promise of small team/budget and expand if the game takes off. I'm expecting that's what we will get.

  65. #65
    Administrator Draegan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soygen View Post
    I hope he does this via Kickstarter. This thread will be fucking awesome when it inevitably misses its proposed dates on Kickstarter. I'm not even remotely interested in this until there is more than just shill-speak coming from Brad.
    If Camelot Unchained can fufill their kickstarter goals, Brad surely can.

  66. #66
    Registered User Sithro's Avatar
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    A small MMO made by Brad and co? I can get behind that. I can never trust the guy with a big budget project again, though.

  67. #67
    Not sure about Mr. Chaos vGrade's Avatar
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    Nevermind
    Last edited by vGrade; 09-10-2013 at 10:52 PM.

  68. #68
    Registered User Muligan's Avatar
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    Who is Brad working with on this project? Also, why such a short stint with SoE? Didn't they put him in charge of EQ? I'm thinking this was known in the beginning. They picked his brain and ran some things by him for EQNext then tossed him in the corner. I'm thinking he was just biding his time to see if a couple things worked out before he tossed his SoE paycheck aside.
    [D3] Muligan#1208 - View My Profile
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  69. #69
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    Would fund the kickstarter to just get in closed forums alone , the VG closed beta forums were quite the entertainment.

    Honestly though, I'd hope he's learned his lessons from previous trainwreck with the Vanguard process , and if truly was shooting for those of us who've wanted to throw up over various EQN elements , I'd probably fund a little and sub/buy a game
    he made just because Vanguard still to this day is the closest model of a game I'd like to play. A modern , more functional VG/EQ3 type game is far closer to what I want to play than most of the shit thrown at us the past few years.

    (FFXIV ARR is only think remotely close so far for me in enjoyment terms)

    Also someone send him a message to come sign up and start posting here

  70. #70
    Registered User GoingBackToCali's Avatar
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    I finally have new reading material at work.

  71. #71
    Just this guy, you know. tad10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kedwyn View Post
    He needs to hire a project manager and not shoot up all the development money.

    Otherwise he has always had some good design ideas.

    Vanguard was over ambitious and mis managed but it was closer than any of the other shit released since WoW to what I want in a game.

    He needs to be kept on a medium-length leash by a money-man as CEO. Otherwise he'll fuck up again and spend 98% of his money on Art Assets and Design and 2% on coding tools (i.e. VG Debacle 2.0). The single biggest reason why Vanguard failed was that he tried to do too much - if he had cut out a couple of races and saved them for a later expansion, cut out a couple of classes (in addition to the two he did cut) and saved them for a later expansion and cut out Thestra, VG would have shipped ontime and relatively bug-free.
    #Kobane

    Quote Originally Posted by Iannis View Post
    Surrogates have been calling Trump a racist and a sexist for months now. I'm not sure how well that's working out.

  72. #72
    Just this guy, you know. tad10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by etchazz View Post
    agree 100%. people can hate on brad all they want, but as broken as vanguard was, it's still better than just about anything that's currently out. EQN is just another WoW clone. brad knows that, and he's smart enough to know that it will more than likely fail a few months after launch and that a true successor to the original EQ is what a lot of people want (i know i do).
    EQN is not a WoW clone it is Diablolminecraft. It is however, unlikely to be something those of us who like EQ/VG will play long-term. I enjoyed LOL for a month. I can imagine myself enjoying EQN for at least a month I just don't see the longevity given horizontal progression. At the end of the day I like levels, I like classes, I like Diku-style combat none of which are in EQN.
    #Kobane

    Quote Originally Posted by Iannis View Post
    Surrogates have been calling Trump a racist and a sexist for months now. I'm not sure how well that's working out.

  73. #73
    MMO Refugee gogojira's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dahkoht View Post
    Also someone send him a message to come sign up and start posting here
    Doubt that's going to happen with some of the comments already made in this thread, which is a shame. I've already made the comment before but obviously this board is damn near moderation free and open to attacks on people's personal lives. Not on me to make that call, but it's easy enough to understand why developers would never want to post here (and that applies to more than just Brad). Open discussion and criticism are one thing, straight venom is another.

  74. #74
    Registered Abuser Melvin's Avatar
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    If people (for example, game devs) aren't comfortable being badmouthed on the internet, then they need to keep in mind what the odds are that their actions are going to be offensive to an arbitrary person on the internet. The intelligent people (hopefully some game devs are among these intelligent people) are going to realize that the odds are for all practical purposes: 100%, 100% of the time, no matter what the actions and audience are. Game devs expecting to get the /r/EQN treatment is a symptom of a much larger problem that exists in the real world.

  75. #75
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    Devs don't expect it. They know they won't get that treatment everywhere(e: the reddit treatment).

    And that's why they'd probably stay far away from here.
    Last edited by Mellent; 09-11-2013 at 02:51 AM.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mellent View Post
    Devs don't expect it. They know they won't get that treatment everywhere(e: the reddit treatment).

    And that's why they'd probably stay far away from here.
    Which is a shame, because I seem to remember back in the old days there was a fair amount of Dev involvement, right up to Curt being run out on a rail. Not that those guys didn't have some measure of something coming but the sheer vitriol pouring out of people (t)here? Sheeeeeeeeeeet. Given the choice as a Dev wanting to get feedback from a community, I would choose the sycophants at Reddit over the spitemongers that populated those boards. It would be easier to wade through the fluff to find a silver nugget than dredge through the hate to find diamonds. The cost of being involved (t)here is just too high.

    Anyway, looking forward to playing an EQ3 with less brown. Although, I have to admit, without the first crack exposure that was EQ and friends playing to draw me back in, I don't know that I would have stayed with it; I burned out/ragequit a few times, very much the mirror-opposite of his comments re: EQN. Mad props still, though, for that great work during SOE Live, bro, even if you weren't able to stay on the optimism express.
    Last edited by Rhinohelix; 09-11-2013 at 03:08 AM.

  77. #77
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    The difference here is, people speak their minds. If you aren't up for that, and just want people sucking your cock, stay away. I really despise the hero worship some of you have for Devs. Hint: nothing you say is going to influence anything they do. That you think otherwise is "cute".
    Quote Originally Posted by Big Flex View Post
    The lag makes you last longer.

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneofOne View Post
    The difference here is, people speak their minds. If you aren't up for that, and just want people sucking your cock, stay away. I really despise the hero worship some of you have for Devs. Hint: nothing you say is going to influence anything they do. That you think otherwise is "cute".
    There is a difference between speaking one's mind as if they were speaking it to someone's face, and the "speaking one's mind" that goes on here.

    One of them is far more pleasant than the other.

    You take a guess as to which one.

  79. #79
    Registered Abuser Melvin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mellent View Post
    There is a difference between speaking one's mind as if they were speaking it to someone's face, and the "speaking one's mind" that goes on here.

    One of them is far more pleasant than the other.

    You take a guess as to which one.
    The internet exposes people to the unpleasant truths that people are too polite to tell them to their face. How dumb do you have to be to see this as a bad thing?

  80. #80
    MMO Refugee gogojira's Avatar
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    That's fine, that's how this board is and will stay. Accept it or move on. But how dumb do you have to be to not understand why developers don't post here? Better yet, how weak is your thought process if you can't see that people can be honest and critical without vomiting a string of expletives? It's hard to grasp, but there is a middle ground between dev ass kissing and raw hatred.

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhinohelix View Post
    Which is a shame, because I seem to remember back in the old days there was a fair amount of Dev involvement, right up to Curt being run out on a rail. Not that those guys didn't have some measure of something coming but the sheer vitriol pouring out of people (t)here? Sheeeeeeeeeeet. Given the choice as a Dev wanting to get feedback from a community, I would choose the sycophants at Reddit over the spitemongers that populated those boards. It would be easier to wade through the fluff to find a silver nugget than dredge through the hate to find diamonds. The cost of being involved (t)here is just too high.
    The difference between reddit and here is that reddit is full of care bear newb MMO players. They were introduced to the genre with WoW or later and they are on the level of the WoW forums.

  82. #82
    Just this guy, you know. tad10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhinohelix View Post
    Which is a shame, because I seem to remember back in the old days there was a fair amount of Dev involvement, right up to Curt being run out on a rail. Not that those guys didn't have some measure of something coming but the sheer vitriol pouring out of people (t)here? Sheeeeeeeeeeet. Given the choice as a Dev wanting to get feedback from a community, I would choose the sycophants at Reddit over the spitemongers that populated those boards. It would be easier to wade through the fluff to find a silver nugget than dredge through the hate to find diamonds. The cost of being involved (t)here is just too high.
    It's really only a few people who go over the top with the dev hate. I think it'd be easy enough to put those few on ignore as long as you have a thick skin. The real problem is that we end up in these endless circle jerks threads where the same ideas are repeated every 50 pages or so - so if I were a dev why bother?
    #Kobane

    Quote Originally Posted by Iannis View Post
    Surrogates have been calling Trump a racist and a sexist for months now. I'm not sure how well that's working out.

  83. #83
    MMO Refugee gogojira's Avatar
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    There's a lot of people registered, but all things considered, daily posters are a small group. It's irrelevant though, it's what this board is and will continue to be and most of its community wouldn't have it any other way. I honestly don't care, I just don't think the mystery of "where's that developer" is a hard one to solve.

    Edit: and agreed tad, most of the ideas have been on repeat for years now. Lurking a few days as a developer could give most of the insight you'd need from here and probably any other MMO board.
    Last edited by gogojira; 09-11-2013 at 04:00 AM.

  84. #84
    0011101000101001 Silence's Avatar
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    Hello, everyone. I am the lead dev on this. I can't say much, but I can say it will be the first FTP MMO released on iOS and Android. Our technology allows us to rapidly iterate on highly prevalent mainsteamisms that comprise the teamistic, open, flat-landular approach that will be guiding our fore-looking and virtually-encompassing holistic method of delivering consumer-level content based upon a monetization model that is free of fiat monies and the bell-curvian, bell-curvian stance of piggy-banking and small micro-transactioning. We have seen the future, and we are writing it, coding it and living it.

    If you would like to know more about this exciting new MMO
    Spoiler: 
    Please buy 50 Rantact Coins for $10 USD, or 75 Rantacts for $12, or 100 Rants for $15.


    BMQ and I might get some gruff for putting much of the info behind a paywall, and if you'd like to read our reasoning for it

    Spoiler: 
    Please buy 50 Rantact Coins for $10 USD, or 75 Rantacts for $12, or 100 Rants for $15.


    The first 25 posters may qualify for 100 free rants.

    Beyond that, thank you all for reading this post. If you'd like more information, 1000 rants unlocks all tiers of information.

    Spoiler: 
    Please buy 50 Rantact Coins for $10 USD, or 75 Rantacts for $12, or 100 Rants for $15.

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stench View Post
    Oh FFS, that means I have to wait another 5 years or so to be "done" with MMOs? I thought I would be done with EQN.
    Yeah, now I have to follow this and see what happens. I hope he can pull it off. I wonder if he was let go with the recent SOE layoffs or if he chose to go. At least we know the classes will be good and unique. With the direction EQ Next is going I look at this as good news. I'll give both a shot, as they both will be different from everything that calls itself an mmo from the past few years. If Brad creates the niche game we think he wants to create I could see myself spending a lot of time on it if the technology is solid. If it does go the kickstarter route it would be my first time funding one for sure.

    If they can get a proven solid engine and not go overboard with the art it shouldn't take years and years to get something tangible out there.

  86. #86
    Registered User Tolan's Avatar
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    I heard he's working with Yeahlight.

  87. #87
    Just this guy, you know. tad10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tolan View Post
    I heard he's working with Yeahlight.
    Funny, but yeah he needs a Producer that can keep him on track. I'll be interested to hear who he is working with.
    #Kobane

    Quote Originally Posted by Iannis View Post
    Surrogates have been calling Trump a racist and a sexist for months now. I'm not sure how well that's working out.

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silence View Post
    Hello, everyone. I am the lead dev on this. I can't say much, but I can say it will be the first FTP MMO released on iOS and Android. Our technology allows us to rapidly iterate on highly prevalent mainsteamisms that comprise the teamistic, open, flat-landular approach that will be guiding our fore-looking and virtually-encompassing holistic method of delivering consumer-level content based upon a monetization model that is free of fiat monies and the bell-curvian, bell-curvian stance of piggy-banking and small micro-transactioning. We have seen the future, and we are writing it, coding it and living it.

    If you would like to know more about this exciting new MMO
    Spoiler: 
    Please buy 50 Rantact Coins for $10 USD, or 75 Rantacts for $12, or 100 Rants for $15.


    BMQ and I might get some gruff for putting much of the info behind a paywall, and if you'd like to read our reasoning for it

    Spoiler: 
    Please buy 50 Rantact Coins for $10 USD, or 75 Rantacts for $12, or 100 Rants for $15.


    The first 25 posters may qualify for 100 free rants.

    Beyond that, thank you all for reading this post. If you'd like more information, 1000 rants unlocks all tiers of information.

    Spoiler: 
    Please buy 50 Rantact Coins for $10 USD, or 75 Rantacts for $12, or 100 Rants for $15.
    It sounds like if I preorder now, I can exclusive beta access, a dildo figurine, and 50 FREE Rantact coins?!

  89. #89
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    The developers posting on Rerolled comes up once in a while and I've posted a couple of times why we tend to stay away. Some of the reasons other people mentioned, but overall, the reason developers don't interact with players much is because players are very egocentric. They can rarely see the big picture and also drastically favor what they personally like. That is fine, because part of being a professional is getting past what you personally like, so it isn't something you would expect from non-professionals.

    Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING in game development is a trade-off or a compromise at some level. This goes for design considerations, technology limits, and ultimately implementation cost/time. Nobody gets everything they want, not even the developers, and no developer wants to get cursed out and called an idiot for a very difficult decision (based on real-world constraints) that either they made or especially one that someone else made.

    I don't think most developers even mind talking why they made certain decisions, or what they did wrong, but no one is going to bother wasting their time with a subtle and detailed postmortem when the only thing they can expect in return is hate and insults. It isn't interesting or fun, so why would someone spend their leisure time taking abuse? If that's your thing you'd probably want it from a hot dominatrix instead of fat neckbeard.

    It has nothing to do with being "truthful", you can be truthful without being an asshole. We even have a word for it, tactful.

    As to Vanguard, to speak at an incredibly high level, the major component that led to Vanguard being less than it could have been was design.

  90. #90
    Spittin mad rhymes Troll's Avatar
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    You fucks have memories shorter than my dick.

  91. #91
    Registered User Vinyard's Avatar
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    Incoming vision 4.0

  92. #92
    Registered Hutt Agraza's Avatar
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    not even remotely interested without something to see.

  93. #93
    mid r f33d Daly's Avatar
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    Are people just supposed to be hopeless for mmorpgs all together? I never understood the negativity and constant harping on what happened in the past. If this or any other title sucks then it sucks. What's wrong with atleast hoping something doesn't?

  94. #94
    Transform, and roll out! Bruman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daly View Post
    Are people just supposed to be hopeless for mmorpgs all together? I never understood the negativity and constant harping on what happened in the past. If this or any other title sucks then it sucks. What's wrong with atleast hoping something doesn't?
    They don't want to be hurt again

  95. #95
    I WILL BE YOUR DOOM Utnayan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tad10 View Post
    It's really only a few people who go over the top with the dev hate. I think it'd be easy enough to put those few on ignore as long as you have a thick skin. The real problem is that we end up in these endless circle jerks threads where the same ideas are repeated every 50 pages or so - so if I were a dev why bother?
    Another reason is they are usually full of shit trying to sell a product and giving out zero information. And we all saw what happened with the last two, including McQuaid. It's lip service and bandwagoning, and if anyone thinks it's any different now, they are kidding themselves. But don't worry. Developers still post here to promote their products under fake handles. Happens daily.

    With that said, there is no second coming of Christ with McQuaid. You people are delusional if you think anything will come out of this. Relic designers stuck in old hat design may be fine for about 500 people clamouring for that game (until they play it for a week, realize they cannot go AFK for 5 minutes to bottle feed their kids, and uninstall thinking "Boy this sure was easier when I sat on my ass all day after a rough 3 hour college day") but it won't sustain. Needless to say there is a big difference in developing a game in 1997 basically doing nothing more than bringing Diku-Mud to a graphical world (Not to say that was an easy feat back then) and developing a game today with substance, strategy, and persistence.

    PS: Financial backing is from SOE. I can also guarantee you a pseudo kickstarter even though it's already green lit. Which is a shame - kickstarter should be for Indie development.

  96. #96
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    Most honest feedback is going to be negative. What people didn't like and what they would like to see changed is the majority of what they will tell you about. No one is going to tell you that your game has nice dirt graphics in it they will however tell you that the dirt graphic is missing in x part of x area leaving invisible ground. Dev listen to players for a reason and that reason isn't so we can tell them how wonderful they are. I do however support a kid gloves rule for handling Dev's on a forum. Simply put they should not be treated in the same way as a normal poster. People venting there personal distaste for a Dev as a person should be brought under control if that Dev is also a poster with issue being decided in Dev's favor.

    Other then that nope you should just accept that 90% of internet feedback is going to be negative.
    Last edited by Siddar; 09-11-2013 at 01:56 PM.

  97. #97
    Registered User mkopec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Utnayan View Post
    Another reason is they are usually full of shit trying to sell a product and giving out zero information. And we all saw what happened with the last two, including McQuaid. It's lip service and bandwagoning, and if anyone thinks it's any different now, they are kidding themselves. But don't worry. Developers still post here to promote their products under fake handles. Happens daily.

    With that said, there is no second coming of Christ with McQuaid. You people are delusional if you think anything will come out of this. Relic designers stuck in old hat design may be fine for about 500 people clamouring for that game (until they play it for a week, realize they cannot go AFK for 5 minutes to bottle feed their kids, and uninstall thinking "Boy this sure was easier when I sat on my ass all day after a rough 3 hour college day") but it won't sustain. Needless to say there is a big difference in developing a game in 1997 basically doing nothing more than bringing Diku-Mud to a graphical world (Not to say that was an easy feat back then) and developing a game today with substance, strategy, and persistence.

    PS: Financial backing is from SOE. I can also guarantee you a pseudo kickstarter even though it's already green lit. Which is a shame - kickstarter should be for Indie development.

    Maybe what this genre needs is a little return to the dark ages. Because where its seeming to go these days, there is not really a light at the end of the tunnel. If you know what im saying (lobby gaming). Is this guy the one to do it? Who knows? He did have some good ideas in Vanguard. Great class dsign, great world design, but all wrapped up in a layer of shit that took 5 yrs to fix.

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    I enjoyed Vanguard but lack of end game content made me lose interest I did participate in Ted Club though, that was some fun raiding =p

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    Quote Originally Posted by mkopec View Post
    Maybe what this genre needs is a little return to the dark ages. Because where its seeming to go these days, there is not really a light at the end of the tunnel. If you know what im saying (lobby gaming). Is this guy the one to do it? Who knows? He did have some good ideas in Vanguard. Great class dsign, great world design, but all wrapped up in a layer of shit that took 5 yrs to fix.
    You're implying that it's fixed now? I played it at F2P launch, still had tons of issues with chunk crashing, lag, etc. And that was in empty chunks when I was just trying to do some tradeskills. Was really liking the game, but the bad "F2P but not really" system made me not too happy, then the constant crashing turned me off. I tried for 3 nights to finish one set of WOs, eventually said screw it - since I knew the F2P was going to require me to sub, not subbing for a broken game.

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    Yeah that stuff did get fixed eventually. The lag was never there when the game was sub based, it only arrived as a side effect of them rushing out the f2p system. There was lag issues and chunk crashing and whatever else, but I am pretty sure they have fixed that now. But as with everything Vanguard related, it was way too late. It was so stupid because a lot of new people gave the game a shot but the crashing and the lag was there for quite a few months, right from the start of f2p. So I am sure that most of the people who came along to try the game, ended up quitting for more or less the same reason the original players quit in 2007. So stupid.

    The free to play thing, same story too. At first there were restrictions on lots of stuff and it sucked. Because most of the more interesting classes (Blood Mage etc) were only playable if you paid. And there were race restrictions and lots of gear restrictions. The whole thing was a stupid mess. But they also fixed that now which actually leaves you with a very generous game. You can play all the way without paying anything at all. All the races and classes are free and you can do anything, go anywhere, and I think they even removed a bunch of smaller restrictions too, like the 2 plat limit and whatever else. The only restriction of note now, is that most yellow items and above need to equipped using a potion or sub. But I know from experience that you can play to about 50 with just blue items and get by just fine. And if you do get anything exceptional as loot, a potion with about 5 charges is really cheap.

    So it's very generous, but again, far too late. I still play it from time to time and the server is dead. It may have some players in the 50+ kind of range but from 1-50 you rarely see another person and the chat channels are mostly silent. It's quite sad, but it was totally predictable because of the way SOE handled the game right since the start.

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