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Thread: Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen - #1 Thread in MMO

  1. #3501
    Registered User Dahkoht's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Furious View Post
    I do think he will get the most honest feedback here but there are plenty of posters here that think most of wow's features are the cats meow and will argue for them in any game.
    Or are obvious trolls/idiots who hate the very premise of the game. Not talking about some of us arguing instance vs non instance and which death penalty , but the ones who can't accept that many of us prefer and like the old school mechanics over the new bullshit.

    Brad needs to visit here all throughout yes , but a closed forum where everyone paid 25 or so at least to be there and is genuinely interested in the game is a nice option. I'd still be here as much if not more , but for actual polls on mechanics and such the trolls shouldn't be allowed to vote. That's more the thing I'm thinking about , not discussion , but when Brad actual wants a numbers break down on some specific issue to at least look at the results , that should be backers only.

  2. #3502
    Just this guy, you know. tad10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dahkoht View Post
    but a closed forum where everyone paid 25 or so at least to be there and is genuinely interested in the game is a nice option. I'd still be here as much if not more , but for actual polls on mechanics and such the trolls shouldn't be allowed to vote. That's more the thing I'm thinking about , not discussion , but when Brad actual wants a numbers break down on some specific issue to at least look at the results , that should be backers only.
    It should be whatever reward level is the digital download for the game or the box (which might be 25 but could be 35 for digital download/50 for box or whatever).
    #Kobane

    Quote Originally Posted by Iannis View Post
    Surrogates have been calling Trump a racist and a sexist for months now. I'm not sure how well that's working out.

  3. #3503
    MMO Refugee gogojira's Avatar
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    Feedback is great and naturally you can't just write off what people say, but in truth I hope Brad and his team have a fairly clear vision in mind that they intend to stick to. I'm not saying to be completely rigid and unbending, but I'd rather see this be their world rather than a design by committee.

  4. #3504
    Registered User K13R's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tad10 View Post
    Friends don't let friends post when they're drunk.
    Thanks man I take a shot every time I read the word "Vision" in a post...

  5. #3505
    Just this guy, you know. tad10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saban View Post
    Items don't really need to leave the system if instancing isn't used. Rare spawns in EQ regulated item influx into the economy pretty well.
    I like breakable items - not item decay, breakable. Goes along with spell resistance for higher level mobs, items should have a very low chance to break (say .0001%) that goes up as you fight higher level mobs (say to .005% for a mob 5 levels higher ).

    Items might have slots for a gem that grants 'Indestructibility'. And a Sword that has no other attributes but decent dmg/delay and MAGIC INDESTRUCTABLE attributes should be the hot shit for mid-level tanks.
    #Kobane

    Quote Originally Posted by Iannis View Post
    Surrogates have been calling Trump a racist and a sexist for months now. I'm not sure how well that's working out.

  6. #3506
    Registered User popsicledeath's Avatar
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    Mark me down for some level of spell/ability limitation. I like the idea of having a set of spells for different situation. To not only plan for what might go down, but plan according to what you'd be fighting and who with. That shaman can slow, so your enchanter can load some other situation spell (or slow, just in case, depending on the situation).

    Also, Vanguard had a lot of elements of timing that I liked. Even when combat was spammy, you had to pay attention to when you were casting what. With reactions and counters and intercepts and vulnerabilities, it wasn't just spam your rotation and it not mattering what you were fighting. You had to pay attention.

    The problem was it was sometimes too fast, the paying attention didn't really net critical results, or the 'sometimes' abilities just became 'all the time anyhow' abilities, like the group life-tap heal on my blood mage that was triggered by crits on a character running like 45% crit rate that was almost exclusively spamming abilities that could crit. Sure, it was awesome, especially in raids, having a HUGE group heal pretty much always available, but it got to the point I had to take it out of my spell macros because my best heal was firing off too often and I couldn't get any dots or DDs down. That's a backwards problem to have on a damage-based healer and made what started out as a life-saver sometimes spell pretty mundane. :P

    I'm all for spell fizzles, spell misses, resists, weapon types, damage types, mob vulnerabilities and limiting active spells/abilities and all that kind of thing. It makes you have to be ready to react and capable of it.

    Planning for encounters, paying attention to circumstances, and then using your chosen tools to best handle the situation sounds awesome to me, and like something I haven't experienced in many modern mmos.

  7. #3507
    Sucks at being a grammer Nazi. etchazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K13R View Post
    Ohh where have I seen this movie before... Might be a bigger dumpster fire since the last one except instead of smeds/microsoft money he well be using yours. Wish that thread was preserved for history sake as the same pattern is emerging hocking a Vision plus bored reformed EQ neckbeards arm chair deving pining about the EQ99 glory days with Rose Colored Glasses so thick they might as well be ashtrays. I almost feel bad not paying for this level of entertainment as Brad attempts to give the ol dirty sanchez to a community twice. fucking Bravo

    With that said I wish you luck Brad only for a longshot wish all these EQ99'ers finally get there game as I understand the nostalgia from my first MMO.

    Edit: Where are the fucking internets + -
    what's worse, the neckbeards that post here, or retards like you that come here, take the time to read all these posts, and then feel the need to post themselves when they have zero interest in the game? instead of wasting your time reading and posting about a game you have no intentions of playing, go upstairs, crawl into your nice warm bed, and go fuck yourself.

  8. #3508
    Registered User Dahkoht's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogojira View Post
    Feedback is great and naturally you can't just write off what people say, but in truth I hope Brad and his team have a fairly clear vision in mind that they intend to stick to. I'm not saying to be completely rigid and unbending, but I'd rather see this be their world rather than a design by committee.
    100% agree , I was more referring to when brad wants actual numbers on something like he asked before about limited spell slots vs mega bars , it would be good to have a place only backers could post/vote in a poll , leaving out the obvious trolls who already are here

    Definitely don't want a design by committee , but there probably will be certain mechanics here and there he'd like to see the breakdown on of folks who actually intend to support and play.

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    If they don't design by committee, how will they determine critical design decisions such as pirates or ninjas?

  10. #3510
    Registered User Aradune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fubarbox View Post
    As far as the spells and ability question...Please give us a pool of many options if you want, but limit the loadout we can bring to something like 10 or maybe 15. I am really tired of the 40 button whack a mole/play the UI systems. I much prefer the newer games like GW2 or TSW where you have a limited number of skills available, but you can strategically pick from a vast amount. I find that in these games I can easily memorize and strategize with the abilities I choose to bring. In turn I am playing the game, concentrating on the encounters, and not playing UI whack a mole. For me this is a much more immersive and enjoyable experience. One other thing that is very important is to get movement/animation right. Love or hate the game, I really like how movement/dodging feels in a game like GW2.
    Well said.

  11. #3511
    Registered User Dahkoht's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dumar View Post
    If they don't design by committee, how will they determine critical design decisions such as pirates or ninjas?
    Dear god , the ever important poll on how to handle friends list needs to come before that though.

  12. #3512
    Administrator Draegan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Furious View Post
    Just reading through this thread, about 10 pages back still. You got some pretty interesting ideas I must say. I like the idea of slowing things down and really planning out what your next in game step is.
    My problem is that no one would give me 30M dollars in a kickstart so I can make my own game. Shame! Also y aerospace engineering degree didn't teach me how to code video games or engineer up a network. I should go to night school or something.

  13. #3513
    Just this guy, you know. tad10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dumar View Post
    If they don't design by committee, how will they determine critical design decisions such as pirates or ninjas?
    Red Pandas v. Chinese Pandas is more important for the inevitable Panda-based race.
    #Kobane

    Quote Originally Posted by Iannis View Post
    Surrogates have been calling Trump a racist and a sexist for months now. I'm not sure how well that's working out.

  14. #3514
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draegan View Post
    My problem is that no one would give me 30M dollars in a kickstart so I can make my own game. Shame! Also y aerospace engineering degree didn't teach me how to code video games or engineer up a network. I should go to night school or something.
    You can't code, but I would totally go into outer space with you anytime, baby.

  15. #3515
    Registered User Tol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dahkoht View Post
    Dear god , the ever important poll on how to handle friends list needs to come before that though.
    I think I've got it. Pirates can be friends with pirates, and ninjas can be friends with ninjas. Red Panda Pirates can obviously be friends with both, since we're just that great.

  16. #3516
    Registered User mkopec's Avatar
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    This thread reminds me of the days of Vanguard except no Brad chiming in....

    Oh shit son! Brad is here! Fuck yeah! Its on!
    Last edited by mkopec; 01-08-2014 at 06:06 AM.

  17. #3517
    Registered User Spynx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tad10 View Post
    Red Pandas v. Chinese Pandas is more important for the inevitable Panda-based race.

    red panda pirates recuiting pst

  18. #3518
    Registered User Crowing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aradune View Post
    Well said.
    While we are talking about spells, bring back spell particles changing as you level. Even though it was entirely superficial, it was fucking awesome when you hit those milestones.

  19. #3519
    Just this guy, you know. tad10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkopec View Post
    This thread reminds me of the days of Vanguard except no Brad chiming in....

    Oh shit son! Brad is here! Fuck yeah! Its on!
    Where have you been?
    #Kobane

    Quote Originally Posted by Iannis View Post
    Surrogates have been calling Trump a racist and a sexist for months now. I'm not sure how well that's working out.

  20. #3520
    Registered User mkopec's Avatar
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    I guess I have some reading to do.

  21. #3521
    Band Araysar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draegan View Post
    My problem is that no one would give me 30M dollars in a kickstart so I can make my own game. Shame! Also y aerospace engineering degree didn't teach me how to code video games or engineer up a network. I should go to night school or something.
    We've seen you run a message board. You'd be lucky if you got 3 dollars from us to start a game studio.

  22. #3522
    MMO Refugee gogojira's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkopec View Post
    I guess I have some reading to do.
    Many of Brad's posts are in the OP. I need to update again soon.

  23. #3523
    Just this guy, you know. tad10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogojira View Post
    Many of Brad's posts are in the OP. I need to update again soon.
    Tannlin also has short excerpts of this thread on his pantheonrotf reddit - nothing that gogojira hasn't covered but useful if you can't read rerolled at work and don't want to get eyestrain from your phone.
    #Kobane

    Quote Originally Posted by Iannis View Post
    Surrogates have been calling Trump a racist and a sexist for months now. I'm not sure how well that's working out.

  24. #3524
    MMO Refugee gogojira's Avatar
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    I know everyone's lost in a sea of theorycrafting, but I really hope the team does something nice with the soundtrack. I'm a sucker for a good OST and anxious to see who is handling that end of Pantheon. Whatever tier I back, that needs to be a part of the package.

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    Yup, need another Kelethin theme.

  26. #3526
    MMO Refugee gogojira's Avatar
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    I can space out to that track for days. Instant nostalgia.

  27. #3527
    Just this guy, you know. tad10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tol View Post
    I think I've got it. Pirates can be friends with pirates, and ninjas can be friends with ninjas. Red Panda Pirates can obviously be friends with both, since we're just that great.
    Maybe NewCo can sell design your own guild flags at a reward level so you can get a unique flag for RPP (you know me).

  28. #3528
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crowing View Post
    While we are talking about spells, bring back spell particles changing as you level. Even though it was entirely superficial, it was fucking awesome when you hit those milestones.
    Shit bring back mass buffing and get rid of that lock to group or raid buffing crap, let me cast virtue on everyone and their pets!!!

  29. #3529
    Registered User Lethality's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fubarbox View Post
    As far as the spells and ability question...Please give us a pool of many options if you want, but limit the loadout we can bring to something like 10 or maybe 15. I am really tired of the 40 button whack a mole/play the UI systems. I much prefer the newer games like GW2 or TSW where you have a limited number of skills available, but you can strategically pick from a vast amount. I find that in these games I can easily memorize and strategize with the abilities I choose to bring. In turn I am playing the game, concentrating on the encounters, and not playing UI whack a mole. For me this is a much more immersive and enjoyable experience. One other thing that is very important is to get movement/animation right. Love or hate the game, I really like how movement/dodging feels in a game like GW2.
    Well… the idea of a limited skill load out is nice in theory, but one thing I found that has been lost in that translation -- particularly by GW2 -- is the availability of abilities that aren't necessarily "combat" related (i.e. spells that do damage to other things) but are a big part of defining the class. From WoW, think Mage's Blink, Rogue's Vanish, Hunter's Feign Death, etc. I don't really consider those "combat" abilities as they don't do damage.

    Sure you can use them in combat, but I think any class-defining non-damaging abilities wouldn't fall into the same category as literal combat spells that are part of a rotation.

    So, in my opinion there has to be also be a load out for non-combat abilities, or anything that might be classified as a non-core combat ability.

    Also, the movement in GW2 is terrible… feels like you're ice skating all the time. The dodging is a nice element, but I'd prefer to see more precise movement of my character as in WoW or even SW:TOR. That feel is a big part of the enjoyment for me, and a key reason I dropped GW2 pretty quickly.

  30. #3530
    Registered User Merlin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogojira View Post
    Feedback is great and naturally you can't just write off what people say, but in truth I hope Brad and his team have a fairly clear vision in mind that they intend to stick to. I'm not saying to be completely rigid and unbending, but I'd rather see this be their world rather than a design by committee.
    !!!!!
    design.jpeg

  31. #3531
    Registered User Muligan's Avatar
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    Out of all seriousness, EQ's music honestly added to the gameplay at least in my opinion. I still go back and listen time to time for a dose of nostalgia.
    [D3] Muligan#1208 - View My Profile
    [EQII] Muligan Van'Jurai - Templar - Nagafen & Antonia Bayle (retired)
    [EQ] Muligan Van'Jurai - Dark Elf Cleric - Lanys T'vyl (retired)

  32. #3532
    Registered User Amaru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aradune View Post
    Well said.
    Couldn't agree more, please limit the number of spells on the screen. I could sit here forever listing the reasons why this style is better, but I think the reasons are clear.

  33. #3533
    Registered User Amaru's Avatar
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    The music is a major point of nostalgia for me. I also really like Vanguard's as well, its very fitting to the zones, good music, and its not overpowering.

  34. #3534
    Registered User Amaru's Avatar
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    I want my UI to look like this




    And not like this


    EQ2_000000.jpg


    And for the record I like EQ2 better than GW2, but I think GW2's UI is much cleaner (the main reason for this is their lack of 90 spells on the screen at once). I also want to point out that I do NOT like that each slot on GW2 is limited to a specific type of spell. I think we should have between 8-15 slots to mix and match however we choose.
    Last edited by Amaru; 01-08-2014 at 01:34 PM.

  35. #3535
    Mike Wazowski Gecko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amaru View Post
    for the record I like EQ2 better than GW2, but I think GW2's UI is much cleaner (the main reason for this is their lack of 90 spells on the screen at once). I also want to point out that I do NOT like that each slot on GW2 is limited to a specific type of spell. I think we should have between 8-15 slots to mix and match however we choose.
    Dear God, why? The combat? The clustered, bad zones? The shiny on the ground hunt? If I have one wish for every new MMO it's that they examine EQ2's combat system and do everything in their power to make their game not use any abomination like that.

    I think it's safe to say most of us want a traditional and simple UI with limited buttons. My other issue is how many new games do 'actiony' combat. I think MMOs should focus on first person strategic combat that's group based, and not on twitchy fighting, personally. GCDs are a good thing.

  36. #3536
    Registered User Merlin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gecko View Post
    Dear God, why? The combat? The clustered, bad zones? The shiny on the ground hunt? If I have one wish for every new MMO it's that they examine EQ2's combat system and do everything in their power to make their game not use any abomination like that.

    I think it's safe to say most of us want a traditional and simple UI with limited buttons. My other issue is how many new games do 'actiony' combat. I think MMOs should focus on first person strategic combat that's group based, and not on twitchy fighting, personally. GCDs are a good thing.
    To be fair, I agree with him. At least EQ2 is an actual fantasy MMO. GW2 is more like a first person shooter pretending to be an MMORPG. Twitch combat, running, rolling, shooting, dodging, running some more, duck, run, dodge...GW2 sucks.

  37. #3537
    Transform, and roll out! Bruman's Avatar
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    If we're worried about limited load outs, I'd like to see the same applied to melee.

    I was playing my monk on live some, on Test...and I have like 20 buttons now. All "discs" that were originally more of "oh shit" buttons, which have now completely replaced innate skills (like kick, round kick, flying kick, etc) as extra "hit when on CD" buttons.

    Yes, I know there's a proper rotation and blah blah blah if you want to get technical. Point stands though.

    We all also love EQ's clickies, I'd bet? Usually those get hotbarred too though. How do people feel clickies fit into the "reduce hotbar bloat" situations?

  38. #3538
    Administrator Draegan's Avatar
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    If you think GW2 is twitch combat, there are a whole lot of other games that would like to speak with you.

  39. #3539
    Registered User Merlin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draegan View Post
    If you think GW2 is twitch combat, there are a whole lot of other games that would like to speak with you.
    Oh please. GW2 is closer to Battlefield then Everquest. The entire fight mechanics is build around a spastic, how fast can you run, jump, and click buttons. Its great if your 14 I suppose.

  40. #3540
    Video Game Expert Pyros's Avatar
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    In terms of hotkeys and shit, I think I'd like at most 2 full bars of skills for a given class(standard 12 slots bars, so 24abilities per class). Could have more if they're like cosmetics and super situational stuff like self illusions and what not. Then about 1 bar of items/consumables/clickies. I think it wouldn't hurt to restrict the amount of active clickies you can have. Say 3 or 4. You can slot them(so you can still use an item that has a clicky effect without using its clicky if it happens to also have good stats) and no combat swapping. Also buffs from clickies drop if you change the item, don't want to spend 10mins after every death gear swapping shit to buff myself.

    24 seems like a solid number to me to have a lot of situational but useful abilities and shit. Half of that would be just that though, either longer cooldowns or situation specific spells, your main abilities should be between 6 and 10. Definitely don't want the limited bar systems, they always say shit like "oh but you can choose what you put on your bar and make builds, such novelty" but it's fucking shit when you play it, you're ultra limited in your "choices" and once a fight starts you're fucked if you didn't get the proper shit which is almost always since you don't want situational abilities on a small bar, you only want the most efficient ability that's usable in most situations. I didn't mind in GW1 because you truly had choice, there were like 120 abilities per class and like 8 or 10 whatever slot plus you could dual class, so you could make real builds, but GW2 is the complete opposite and is boring as fuck. Not as boring as Wildstar, but still boring.

  41. #3541
    Mike Wazowski Gecko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Merlin View Post
    Oh please. GW2 is closer to Battlefield then Everquest. The entire fight mechanics is build around a spastic, how fast can you run, jump, and click buttons. Its great if your 14 I suppose.
    I think you are overstating GW2s combat and twitchy. It's not nearly as bad as Wildstar, and I can play long stretches with no issues and I'm in my 40s. It actually is far less interactive than EQ2 for me.

    EQ2s ability bloat, heroic system, and spam is by far the worst combat system ever created, in my opinion. If they wanted to instantly make EQ2 a much, much better game they could completely scrap it and put EQs system on top of it.

    It's a shame Smed doesn't have the balls to completely revamp EQ2. I guess he figures that ship has sailed, and he's probably right. If he had done it in 2006 though the game would be far more popular.

  42. #3542
    MMO Refugee gogojira's Avatar
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    EQ2 is a nightmare with hotkeys but I agree with Amaru, too. A lot of people hate on it, but I actually enjoyed some elements of it (Kunark expansion was a highlight for me). It doesn't help that by the time GW2 launched I'd been exhausted with the genre for years and I don't think an MMO has ever pushed the concept of "fuck grouping" harder than it. Their "everyone gets equal exp for participating in any regard" was a horrible idea.

  43. #3543
    Registered User Jimbolini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogojira View Post
    EQ2 is a nightmare with hotkeys but I agree with Amaru, too. A lot of people hate on it, but I actually enjoyed some elements of it (Kunark expansion was a highlight for me). It doesn't help that by the time GW2 launched I'd been exhausted with the genre for years and I don't think an MMO has ever pushed the concept of "fuck grouping" harder than it. Their "everyone gets equal exp for participating in any regard" was a horrible idea.

    Playing Eq2 since launch I agree about Kunark. (My favorite expac)

    Being biased, I enjoy Eq2 combat system...although it can be cluttered at times and confusing. I think the HO system was a good idea in principal, but never really worked well.

  44. #3544
    Mike Wazowski Gecko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogojira View Post
    I don't think an MMO has ever pushed the concept of "fuck grouping" harder than it. Their "everyone gets equal exp for participating in any regard" was a horrible idea.
    It's funny you mention that as I was onboard the screw grouping train until I actually played a lot of GW2 and realized how much I enjoyed designated roles and inter-group dependencies. As of now classes with designated jobs and meaning makes an MMO more fun for me.

  45. #3545
    Registered User Lethality's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gecko View Post
    It's funny you mention that as I was onboard the screw grouping train until I actually played a lot of GW2 and realized how much I enjoyed designated roles and inter-group dependencies. As of now classes with designated jobs and meaning makes an MMO more fun for me.
    I think many players realized that, including myself, once they really got into playing GW2. It was more clear than ever that traditional MMORPG combat was it's own thing and it had merits to it, while everyone was trying to dismiss it as "old fashioned."

    GW2 should be commended for trying some new things, but if PRotF is "The modern, challenging, group-focused MMO Game" then obviously there's very little from GW2 in the way of group-based class and content design that Brad & team can take inspiration from.

  46. #3546
    Registered User shabushabu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pyros View Post
    In terms of hotkeys and shit, I think I'd like at most 2 full bars of skills for a given class(standard 12 slots bars, so 24abilities per class). Could have more if they're like cosmetics and super situational stuff like self illusions and what not. Then about 1 bar of items/consumables/clickies. I think it wouldn't hurt to restrict the amount of active clickies you can have. Say 3 or 4. You can slot them(so you can still use an item that has a clicky effect without using its clicky if it happens to also have good stats) and no combat swapping. Also buffs from clickies drop if you change the item, don't want to spend 10mins after every death gear swapping shit to buff myself.

    24 seems like a solid number to me to have a lot of situational but useful abilities and shit. Half of that would be just that though, either longer cooldowns or situation specific spells, your main abilities should be between 6 and 10. Definitely don't want the limited bar systems, they always say shit like "oh but you can choose what you put on your bar and make builds, such novelty" but it's fucking shit when you play it, you're ultra limited in your "choices" and once a fight starts you're fucked if you didn't get the proper shit which is almost always since you don't want situational abilities on a small bar, you only want the most efficient ability that's usable in most situations. I didn't mind in GW1 because you truly had choice, there were like 120 abilities per class and like 8 or 10 whatever slot plus you could dual class, so you could make real builds, but GW2 is the complete opposite and is boring as fuck. Not as boring as Wildstar, but still boring.
    To me limiting skills is just over-complicating something... let people put 1000000000 abilities on their bars if they want but design encounters around a subset. Either Limit or no Limit my fear of limits comes from games like GW2, neverwinter and stuff when they tell you where to slot certain skills ? Talk about retarded... that is when this shit goes to far.

    To be clear even in limited "active abilities" situations, please do not limit WHERE abilities can go... that is just horrible and restrictive nonsense

    I think you mentioned a sweet spot there, 24 abilities, 12 combat, 12 buff/other. If you are talking that number now you are basically getting a skill every other level assuming 50 levels... that's a pretty cool amount. I would see that as top end for a healer that does DPS, 6 heal/cures, 6 damage spells, then the other 12 for ( clickies, buffs, anything else you want to hotbar ).

    I would imagine melee fighters would be less, likely 6-10 only needed at all.
    Last edited by shabushabu; 01-08-2014 at 03:55 PM.

  47. #3547
    Registered User shabushabu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogojira View Post
    EQ2 is a nightmare with hotkeys but I agree with Amaru, too. A lot of people hate on it, but I actually enjoyed some elements of it (Kunark expansion was a highlight for me). It doesn't help that by the time GW2 launched I'd been exhausted with the genre for years and I don't think an MMO has ever pushed the concept of "fuck grouping" harder than it. Their "everyone gets equal exp for participating in any regard" was a horrible idea.
    When eq2 was about grouping, on my Fury and assassin through say level 70 i did not have a problem with the number of skills.. I played on pvp server ( fury ) also so it was important to have all your heals, damage spells, CC available.. however, going back to eq2 now and playing mostly solo I don't use 1/2 of what is there ( on my necro ) ..

  48. #3548
    Registered User shabushabu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbolini View Post
    Playing Eq2 since launch I agree about Kunark. (My favorite expac)

    Being biased, I enjoy Eq2 combat system...although it can be cluttered at times and confusing. I think the HO system was a good idea in principal, but never really worked well.
    HOs were not bad if the encounters required them... I just never needed to use them much for some reason ? perhaps encounters just too easy ?

  49. #3549
    Poor Communication Skills bixxby's Avatar
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    No exp penalty or reduction at all for grouping please.
    Battle.net:Bixxby#1897 | Steam: Bixxby | Destiny / PS4: BixxbyZzz

  50. #3550
    Registered User Caliane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shabushabu View Post
    To me limiting skills is just over-complicating something... let people put 1000000000 abilities on their bars if they want but design encounters around a subset. Either Limit or no Limit my fear of limits comes from games like GW2, neverwinter and stuff when they tell you where to slot certain skills ? Talk about retarded... that is when this shit goes to far.

    To be clear even in limited "active abilities" situations, please do not limit WHERE abilities can go... that is just horrible and restrictive nonsense

    I think you mentioned a sweet spot there, 24 abilities, 12 combat, 12 buff/other. If you are talking that number now you are basically getting a skill every other level assuming 50 levels... that's a pretty cool amount. I would see that as top end for a healer that does DPS, 6 heal/cures, 6 damage spells, then the other 12 for ( clickies, buffs, anything else you want to hotbar ).

    I would imagine melee fighters would be less, likely 6-10 only needed at all.
    12 is too many imo.

    1-4 on keyboard. either alt keys for 1-4. or q,e,r,f.
    space jump, v block/dodge, shift run.
    2 on mouse 1, and mouse 2.

    8-10 skills, +jump/block/run/maybe crouch.

    Can't argue with full remapping.

    And yes, many options for those 8-10 slots would be nice. (pita to balance though. theres always one or two RIGHT skills, and tons of wrong ones.)
    And as many out of combat skills as you want.

  51. #3551
    Registered User Quineloe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amaru View Post
    I want my UI to look like this
    Remove minimap and immersion-breaking floating numbers and I'm in.

    I'd rather have a reasonable combat log.

  52. #3552
    Registered User Amaru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quineloe View Post
    Remove minimap and immersion-breaking floating numbers and I'm in.

    I'd rather have a reasonable combat log.
    I can get on board with that.

  53. #3553
    Registered Horse Head Flipmode's Avatar
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    Factions that matter. Nothing hard coded. And a class that can cast illusions and their factions with it.

  54. #3554
    Registered User mkopec's Avatar
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    I would like to see limited skills like others mentioned. This lends itself to a more balanced game as well. The Secret world stands out as doing so recently and the system worked pretty well. You got to choose a limited amount of skills to place in to your hotbar and this is what you played with until you changed it. This can lead to be a very strategic system of picking and choosing the right skills or spells to use and I assume easier to balance as well. Keep in mind that this is for your core skills. Shit like buffs, clickies, other non-combat skills should not be included in this limited "combat bar".

    I hate how bloated these games are getting with combat and magic abilities. A combat system does not have to be overly complex with 30-50 choices of different skills that do the same shit but with varying degrees and slightly different names to be a rewarding and deep combat system.

  55. #3555
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    Someone mentionned automation systems of FF10/12 and it spawned something in my mind. I wonder if it would work, because that could change the gameplay of support/healer classes. Think of a simple combat system driven by auto-attack(s) (and possibly an auto-heal function for healers) then add an opportunity system layer where different roles gets visual notifications to react to something that happened or that is going to happen.

    Exemple:
    Warrior auto-attacks, position the spider for the group, then receives a warning that his target is readying a powermove. Warrior trigger his block move and mitigates damage of said powermove, so far, nothing gamebreaking, it's been seen before. Since the tank reacted in time, the powermove was countered and open a backstab opportunity for the rogue, also the move added a poison effect on the tank, healer receives a warning that a party member has been poisonned, his reaction might even determines the final effect of the poison (if not removed before 5 seconds, target is stunned for 10 seconds). Five minutes in the fight, the bard gets a warning that a mana user is running out of mana, he then trigger his mana song.

    Basically, use opportunities to notify players that something requires their attention (instead of multiple UI elements) and to engage players in the fight like the rotation of skills was said to do when WoW came in. More engaging combat than EQ is good, but the bloating of skills and UI elements needs to be under control.

  56. #3556
    Registered User zzeris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mahulk View Post
    Someone mentionned automation systems of FF10/12 and it spawned something in my mind. I wonder if it would work, because that could change the gameplay of support/healer classes. Think of a simple combat system driven by auto-attack(s) (and possibly an auto-heal function for healers) then add an opportunity system layer where different roles gets visual notifications to react to something that happened or that is going to happen.

    Exemple:
    Warrior auto-attacks, position the spider for the group, then receives a warning that his target is readying a powermove. Warrior trigger his block move and mitigates damage of said powermove, so far, nothing gamebreaking, it's been seen before. Since the tank reacted in time, the powermove was countered and open a backstab opportunity for the rogue, also the move added a poison effect on the tank, healer receives a warning that a party member has been poisonned, his reaction might even determines the final effect of the poison (if not removed before 5 seconds, target is stunned for 10 seconds). Five minutes in the fight, the bard gets a warning that a mana user is running out of mana, he then trigger his mana song.

    Basically, use opportunities to notify players that something requires their attention (instead of multiple UI elements) and to engage players in the fight like the rotation of skills was said to do when WoW came in. More engaging combat than EQ is good, but the bloating of skills and UI elements needs to be under control.

    I don't like the thought of automaton at all and I find it sad that some people don't want to do anything but sit in one spot the whole time. Immersion, yeah right. Your system sounds like a modern attempt at Dragon's Lair from the early 80s. Look on the screen for your prompt, do what prompt says or else. That's even worse than the stupid ring of fire, and prompt colorings during a boss fight. Your system would have people waiting for a prompt to do anything while auto-attack did most of the work. Draegan's thoughts are much better. You have abilities and you choose when to use a certain set or not. Some quick defensive actions if the mob is rearing up. Backstab when YOU figure it's best rather than when the game tells you to. Talk about making games for mouth-breathers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Azeth View Post
    Right okay fam, they're only the best franchise in 20 years because they've been cheating

  57. #3557
    Registered User Dahkoht's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quineloe View Post
    Remove minimap and immersion-breaking floating numbers and I'm in.

    I'd rather have a reasonable combat log.
    As stated earlier yes , no gps mini map telling me with my radar and sonar where "danger danger danger" is.

    Also related to it , no huge red circles when a mob does an aoe , let me figure the distance to get the hell out of dodge , by, wait for it , WAIT FOR IT ,(I know this is going to be shocking and controversial), by figuring it for myself by guessing/judgement , and holy shit, dying if need be.

  58. #3558
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draegan View Post
    I've been an advocate for moving as far away from the current world design theory where you have 5x newbie 1-10 zones, 4x newbie 10-20 zones, 3x 20-30 zones, 3x 30-40 zones, and then 2x 40-50 zones and 1x 50 zone. Build a world and then populate it with POIs or areas that are dedicated to certain level ranges, but building a world based on level progression that funnels you into only certain areas is a waste of space in my opinion. I'd like a reason for all players to play in the majority of my world for the duration of their time playing, and not just 2-3 zones.
    I agree with this, build a world, not a Mario World where you have a straight zone progression from world1-1 to world4-4. What I liked about GW2 in this regard is that every zone was at a minimum okay to play in even if you outleveled them, and they still had some mobs or events in some zones that would simply flatten you if you didnt pay attention to avoid them or bring friends (some other things from GW2, not so much).

  59. #3559
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    I would love to see a game focus less of world size (especially to later have a fast travel that kills the point of having a large world) and extra land with every expansions, to instead have the world evolve with every expansions. Basically, expansions (and patches) change the world without expanding it. Would also allow older players to tell tales about how the world used to be to newer players =P

  60. #3560
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    Quote Originally Posted by Furious View Post
    No leashing.
    I want leashing in Pantheon.

    Now, that doesnt mean "copy WoW". I want them to take the time when designing mobs to give each a very rudimentary behaviour pattern. Like Diablo 1 did 15 years ago. EQ itself had a bit of this with some mobs fleeing early and some never. Apply this to leashing: if you have a guard, that guy leashes early because it's his job to stand guard and not chase you throughout the whole Karanas. If you have an undead, it's gonna follow you to zone. A predator animal, follows you a fair distance *and* has chase speed faster then you unless you have SoW, no outrunning griffons or lions. I'm sure you can think of some more examples, and you dont need a difficult script for every monster, just some basic patterns that have some differences to add flavor and immersion to the world.

  61. #3561
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    Things should also leash if you get too far away from them or they lose sight of you for too long. Rooting a mob and running half way across a zone away from it but it still manages to use its radar to run straight for you when root breaks is just as silly as mobs leashing if you run 20 feet away.

    No big red circles for AOEs wont work because pretty much every aoe that uses a big red circle in most games is just some random ground spawn effect and without the circle you would just have no clue at all where the AOE was. If you use that type of AOE you need the big red circles. Now I guess you could just get rid of that type of AOE entirely, but thats a different argument.
    Last edited by Creslin; 01-08-2014 at 05:19 PM.

  62. #3562
    Registered User Lethality's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Creed View Post
    I want leashing in Pantheon.

    Now, that doesnt mean "copy WoW". I want them to take the time when designing mobs to give each a very rudimentary behaviour pattern. Like Diablo 1 did 15 years ago. EQ itself had a bit of this with some mobs fleeing early and some never. Apply this to leashing: if you have a guard, that guy leashes early because it's his job to stand guard and not chase you throughout the whole Karanas. If you have an undead, it's gonna follow you to zone. A predator animal, follows you a fair distance *and* has chase speed faster then you unless you have SoW, no outrunning griffons or lions. I'm sure you can think of some more examples, and you dont need a difficult script for every monster, just some basic patterns that have some differences to add flavor and immersion to the world.
    Interesting thoughts, but in this day of AI being all the buzz, and what Sony is doing with Storybricks in EQN, it almost seems like leashing behavior is a relic, and the creatures/NPCs can organically sort of do what they "think" is best/that they desire to do. Can we expect advanced AI, maybe even the Storybricks engine, in PRotF I wonder?

  63. #3563
    Administrator Draegan's Avatar
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    Devs have always said that when they tested A players typically hated it because it was a pain in the ass and jot fun.

    Probably used bad players, but that's what I always heard.

  64. #3564
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pyros View Post
    I didn't mind in GW1 because you truly had choice, there were like 120 abilities per class and like 8 or 10 whatever slot plus you could dual class
    This bears looking at, GW1 while not a true MMORPG had great option for making interesting builds. I would put more restrictions on it for Pantheon to keep roles more distinct but the variety of skills was great.

  65. #3565
    Mike Wazowski Gecko's Avatar
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    I think game managers want a minimum of frustration and a maximum of grinding in a simple manner with many carrots to enable 'progress'.

    You see this in WOW. You see this in Wildstar. You see this in TESO. We keep saying we want a living world with in depth AI and meaning, and they keep ignoring that and going back to the same design using the same tired metrics and bad logic to justify their decisions, then wonder why 90% of us are gone after 90 days or far less.

  66. #3566
    Registered User Kharza-kzad's Avatar
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    Reactive abilities are fine as long as there is a distinct sound that comes with the triggers. IMHO they only fit certain weapon users like weapon & shield or a fencer type. I'm not a fan of group combo attacks some of the games had.

  67. #3567
    Transform, and roll out! Bruman's Avatar
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    I think we're missing something very important - why doesn't Brad have an awesome avatar yet?

    Or even just a screenshot of Aradune :3

  68. #3568
    Registered User asocirev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mahulk View Post
    I would love to see a game focus less of world size (especially to later have a fast travel that kills the point of having a large world) and extra land with every expansions, to instead have the world evolve with every expansions. Basically, expansions (and patches) change the world without expanding it. Would also allow older players to tell tales about how the world used to be to newer players =P
    It would be nice to have evolving worlds where if they did add extra land, you could implement faster travel in the old world sections and slower travel in the new. When the first boat hits the shores I'm sure there wouldn't be a griffon tower conveniently linked to the nearest auction house hub (uh-oh I mentioned an AH). I agree with what has been mentioned in the this thread before, whatever land mass you do chose the start the game with, adding content to it with each game update is preferable to adding more and more acreage.

  69. #3569
    Dinduer of Nuffins Nirgon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by an accordion View Post
    Holy fuck this game will suck if Brad listens to all the people that want to go back to 1999.
    Luckily for you there's tons of games that are repeating the same thing we've seen over and over with exclamation points, quest hubs, "purplez" and every class being able to solo to max level as the most viable path.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruman View Post
    why doesn't Brad have an awesome avatar yet?
    A glorious forum avatar must be prepared for him.
    DoTA 2 / Dark Souls 3 / Lurking P99 / D3 Profile

    Waiting for Shadow Bane Emu to finish

  70. #3570
    Registered User zzeris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Creslin View Post
    Things should also leash if you get too far away from them or they lose sight of you for too long. Rooting a mob and running half way across a zone away from it but it still manages to use its radar to run straight for you when root breaks is just as silly as mobs leashing if you run 20 feet away.

    No big red circles for AOEs wont work because pretty much every aoe that uses a big red circle in most games is just some random ground spawn effect and without the circle you would just have no clue at all where the AOE was. If you use that type of AOE you need the big red circles. Now I guess you could just get rid of that type of AOE entirely, but thats a different argument.

    I agree as well with the leashing. I'd like to change up the big AoEs. I know the reasoning for big red circles and it adds to Boss fight variety, changes up fights, etc but I've always found them kind of dumb. My big spell/ability works only in this red circle right here! Or these here! If an ability uses a straight line, graphical effects could show the 'power bolt'. Or the shockwave. If he calls down lightning, shouldn't it truly be random? If it's a wide area effect, it could do a bit less damage, be negated, defended against, etc and actually hit an entire area. These effects happen even with the red line and people still have to learn boss fights. They could also use small effects to give a slight warning instead of the line. Maybe steam rising from the ground in an area where a molten attack is rising from? This might be way too much trouble for any developer but it would be nice to see.
    Quote Originally Posted by Azeth View Post
    Right okay fam, they're only the best franchise in 20 years because they've been cheating

  71. #3571
    Registered User Astral Projection's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruman View Post
    I think we're missing something very important - why doesn't Brad have an awesome avatar yet?

    Or even just a screenshot of Aradune :3
    This has avatar potential.



    edit: wow can't believe that ROI guild is still active: Realm of Insanity - Xegony, Everquest
    Last edited by Astral Projection; 01-08-2014 at 06:12 PM.

  72. #3572
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    One of the big things that I miss from the old days of EQ was sitting in a group socializing while the puller went and grabbed mobs. This social interaction is what made EQ more real to me rather than just a game. As soon as WoW and EQ2 came around, I was constantly moving through dungeons. Kill mob, move, kill mob, move, kill mob, move... non stop. There was no time for socializing what so ever. I rarely knew anybody in the groups anymore than I did before joining the group. They were just random tank, random healer, random dps, etc.

    I would love if there was viable group content in the game that was optimal for the old style of "pull to camp" combat. Give those people that like to crawl their dungeons as well, but I want to sit on my big fat butt and actually socialize with my groups while we spend a few hours each night killing mobs. I want to KNOW the people playing the characters that I spend over 1,000 hours a year playing with rather then just knowing it was some random people.

  73. #3573
    Registered User Amaru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilbo Faggins View Post
    One of the big things that I miss from the old days of EQ was sitting in a group socializing while the puller went and grabbed mobs. This social interaction is what made EQ more real to me rather than just a game. As soon as WoW and EQ2 came around, I was constantly moving through dungeons. Kill mob, move, kill mob, move, kill mob, move... non stop. There was no time for socializing what so ever. I rarely knew anybody in the groups anymore than I did before joining the group. They were just random tank, random healer, random dps, etc.

    I would love if there was viable group content in the game that was optimal for the old style of "pull to camp" combat. Give those people that like to crawl their dungeons as well, but I want to sit on my big fat butt and actually socialize with my groups while we spend a few hours each night killing mobs. I want to KNOW the people playing the characters that I spend over 1,000 hours a year playing with rather then just knowing it was some random people.
    Having a static camp/pull system seems so outdated, but honestly this is where I met almost all of my in game friends. The poor puller was always left out though, he was to busy doing all of the grunt work lol. I wouldn't mind seeing a couple spots like this make it to the game.

  74. #3574
    Survived 9/23/2015 Soygen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Astral Projection View Post
    This has avatar potential.
    Done.

  75. #3575
    Registered Hoser Quaid's Avatar
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  76. #3576
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    I just read the latest story on the RoI website and lol'ed the entire time, hilarious.

  77. #3577
    Registered User Whidon1's Avatar
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    Wanted to say like Draegan mentioned players will often tell you they want "X" cause "X" be it instancing, welfare epics, everyone doing the same content, easy soloing ect.. is "fun". the problem is yes people suck, but they often don't actually know what they really want. Designers listening to this shit and implanting it is the root of sorry state of the mmo market today.

    It's like how New Labour would focus group everything to determine policy's, presentation ect... It won Blair 3 elections but it screwed the country, the politics and his party over in the long run.

    PS: Also Brad I felt like giving VG a try for the first time based on peoples posts about it in this thread. Having only got to level 11 It has made me MUCH more confident you can give us the game we want! VG I can already tell has the best classes in any modern game by a mile. It has/had a ton of good idea's. Feels very tragic what happened to it, but I am enjoying playing it now far more then EQ2.

    Anyone on VG wanna do stuff, or just help out a newb I am Whidon and Whidona.

  78. #3578
    Janitor Tuco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amaru View Post
    I want my UI to look like this




    And not like this


    EQ2_000000.jpg


    And for the record I like EQ2 better than GW2, but I think GW2's UI is much cleaner (the main reason for this is their lack of 90 spells on the screen at once). I also want to point out that I do NOT like that each slot on GW2 is limited to a specific type of spell. I think we should have between 8-15 slots to mix and match however we choose.
    Did you ever play a healer in WoW before raidbar mods were made? It was actually pretty fun doing raid PVP healing. You had to actually look at the game world, see who was getting fucked over, click on them and heal. Once raid bars were modded in it started down the trend of whak-a-mole.

    I like UI mods on MMOs because it allows the community to help the user, but a UI parsing combat text will always give a player a reason to stop looking at hte world and start looking at the UI, which I think is bad and lowers the skill cap. Black and white was a bold experiment in removing the UI but I think it can be looked at for ways to allow the player to play a game without staring at a UI.
    Last edited by Tuco; 01-08-2014 at 06:55 PM.

  79. #3579
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    Best thing I have seen all week.

  80. #3580
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quaid View Post
    This should be the marketing campaign right here

  81. #3581
    Just this guy, you know. tad10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quineloe View Post
    Remove minimap and immersion-breaking floating numbers and I'm in.

    I'd rather have a reasonable combat log.
    VG craptastic minimap wasn't bad, but I'll take no mini map over GPS. I actually like floating numbers. Means I don't have to check my log andcan stay looking at the world. Useful if you happen to forget your guy was equipped with a pick axe not a sword when you logged the night before.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nirgon View Post
    Luckily for you there's tons of games that are repeating the same thing we've seen over and over with exclamation points, quest hubs, "purplez" and every class being able to solo to max level as the most viable path.
    Well, I think he does have a point. Many of the users that post in this thread just want this game to be exact copy of EQ 1999, maybe with few alterations. That won't work, not in 2014. Not even as a niche game. It might be funded, it might get enough players, it just won't last. Why? Once that awesome feeling of nostalgia and reliving days of old will wear down, people will get bored. Why? Because they've beaten that horse already and they did it multiple times.

    Basically, you are right with general philosophy. But if Pantheon wants to succeed (whatever that means), it must find a way to combine this philosophy of old MMOS with new mechanics and be kind of innovative as well, instead of being EQ 1999 copy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinius View Post
    Well, I think he does have a point. Many of the users that post in this thread just want this game to be exact copy of EQ 1999, maybe with few alterations. That won't work, not in 2014. Not even as a niche game. It might be funded, it might get enough players, it just won't last. Why? Once that awesome feeling of nostalgia and reliving days of old will wear down, people will get bored. Why? Because they've beaten that horse already and they did it multiple times.

    Basically, you are right with general philosophy. But if Pantheon wants to succeed (whatever that means), it must find a way to combine this philosophy of old MMOS with new mechanics and be kind of innovative as well, instead of being EQ 1999 copy.
    Thats why most of are playing emulators of some sort right? I may be wrong because I selfishly started my own server, p99 was doing quite well. There are thousands and thousands of us who are STILL playing the original Everquest. It won't be a "WOW killer", but there has been a strong following and a need for this type of niche game since Vanguard went under.

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    Just this guy, you know. tad10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilbo Faggins View Post
    One of the big things that I miss from the old days of EQ was sitting in a group socializing while the puller went and grabbed mobs. This social interaction is what made EQ more real to me rather than just a game. As soon as WoW and EQ2 came around, I was constantly moving through dungeons. Kill mob, move, kill mob, move, kill mob, move... non stop. There was no time for socializing what so ever. I rarely knew anybody in the groups anymore than I did before joining the group. They were just random tank, random healer, random dps, etc.

    I would love if there was viable group content in the game that was optimal for the old style of "pull to camp" combat. Give those people that like to crawl their dungeons as well.
    seems like there will be some instanced run through dungeons in the design based on Brad's suddenly gaining access to a new dungeon in order to level comment. But I am with you in preferring camp and pull non instanced dungeons so I hope there will be some of those as well. If they do have both types, loot should be better in the contested non instanced dungeons. I'd be fine with a split of better item loot found in non instanced and class abilities/spells but poorer loot in instanced dungeons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Merlin View Post
    Thats why most of are playing emulators of some sort right? I may be wrong because I selfishly started my own server, p99 was doing quite well. There are thousands and thousands of us who are STILL playing the original Everquest. It won't be a "WOW killer", but there has been a strong following and a need for this type of niche game since Vanguard went under.
    Actually, my judgement comes exactly from experience with these emulators. I have alot of friends who are oldschool gamers and tried them. At first, everything was cool, but in a few months, they left. Of course there is number of players that do not leave but is that enough for a new game to live on? Few thousands ain't that big number. But you might be right of course, I just don't see it so.
    Last edited by Tinius; 01-08-2014 at 06:39 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tad10 View Post
    seems like there will be some instanced run through dungeons in the design based on Brad's suddenly gaining access to a new dungeon in order to level comment. But I am with you in preferring camp and pull non instanced dungeons so I hope there will be some of those as well. If they do have both types, loot should be better in the contested non instanced dungeons. I'd be fine with a split of better item loot found in non instanced and class abilities/spells but poorer loot in instanced dungeons.
    The word "instance" makes me cringe.

  87. #3587
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    ^^ Me too!

    Merlin, this wont happen. If you are expecting EQ 1999 with a fresh graphical overhaul, good luck. I can almost guarantee you that this game wont be anything near it.

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    Registered User Lethality's Avatar
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    One thing about the glory days of EQ, or whatever game you popped your cherry with... They were appealing because there were many unknowns. About the world, about the game mechanics, etc.

    And any new game will still have their share of unknowns, but that sheer sense of wonder in the early genre is probably gone forever. It doesn't mean some of the mechanics and systems weren't good ideas, but it will be very hard for *any* new MMORPG to escape the general tropes of the genre and truly surprise us with a new adventure. In my opinion of course.

  89. #3589
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lethality View Post
    One thing about the glory days of EQ, or whatever game you popped your cherry with... They were appealing because there were many unknowns. About the world, about the game mechanics, etc.

    And any new game will still have their share of unknowns, but that sheer sense of wonder in the early genre is probably gone forever. It doesn't mean some of the mechanics and systems weren't good ideas, but it will be very hard for *any* new MMORPG to escape the general tropes of the genre and truly surprise us with a new adventure. In my opinion of course.
    This is why it will take a truly groundbreaking game to get this feeling again. something totally fresh and new which basically scraps all the old mmorpg pitfalls and does everything with a fresh new twist on it.

    Like EQ next is aspiring to be from what I read about in the beginning days seems to fit this bill. (Not sure of now because I have not been following it.)

  90. #3590
    Just this guy, you know. tad10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkopec View Post
    ^^ Me too!

    Merlin, this wont happen. If you are expecting EQ 1999 with a fresh graphical overhaul, good luck. I can almost guarantee you that this game wont be anything near it.
    VG2 but with some instances, eq loot, combat in-between eq and vg (with otdt and virtual group targeting). Very interested to see how the combat improvements will play out.

  91. #3591
    MMO Refugee gogojira's Avatar
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    Here's my selfish and very small request: EQ tracking system.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mkopec View Post
    ^^ Me too!

    Merlin, this wont happen. If you are expecting EQ 1999 with a fresh graphical overhaul, good luck. I can almost guarantee you that this game wont be anything near it.
    I don't think any of us are looking for EQ again. All we want is "the list" followed. By the list I mean, our great wishlist we have been constructing throughout this thread. Vanguard was not Everquest 2 but if it had been mechanically sound, it fits quite of few of the wishlist demands and would have been quite successful. I am very confident Brad will create a very good game and while it will not be a "wow killer", it will have a very strong following.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Merlin View Post
    I don't think any of us are looking for EQ again. All we want is "the list" followed. By the list I mean, our great wishlist we have been constructing throughout this thread. Vanguard was not Everquest 2 but if it had been mechanically sound, it fits quite of few of the wishlist demands and would have been quite successful. I am very confident Brad will create a very good game and while it will not be a "wow killer", it will have a very strong following.
    I agree with this sentiment. I just wanted to point out that I don't think it would be good for this game to be too similar (ie almost identical copy) to the old EQ.

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    I want to see no flying mounts. I hate the way they make the world feel safe and small. Yea you could fill the sky with killer pigeons to still make it feel dangerous while flying, but that is a bit dumb imo. I also prefer to play an MMO where upgradable/customizable ground and boat mount systems are in place. If you have those and then put flying mounts in it basically makes everything else obsolete. (I imagine people will wtf flame me for this)

  95. #3595
    Poor Communication Skills bixxby's Avatar
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    All we want is the impossible to obtain feeling of being young and stupid again. How much do we gotta kickstart for a partial lobotomy or maybe one of those new Eternal Sunshine memory erasers.
    Battle.net:Bixxby#1897 | Steam: Bixxby | Destiny / PS4: BixxbyZzz

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    Quote Originally Posted by bixxby View Post
    All we want is the impossible to obtain feeling of being young and stupid again. How much do we gotta kickstart for a partial lobotomy or maybe one of those new Eternal Sunshine memory erasers.

    The KS for a time machine back to spring 99 would blow up... 90% of those posting here would be buying the alpha access tier.

  97. #3597
    Poor Communication Skills bixxby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whidon1 View Post
    The KS for a time machine back to spring 99 would blow up... 90% of those posting here would be buying the alpha access tier.
    wanted-time-traveler.jpg
    Battle.net:Bixxby#1897 | Steam: Bixxby | Destiny / PS4: BixxbyZzz

  98. #3598
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amaru View Post
    I want to see no flying mounts. I hate the way they make the world feel safe and small. Yea you could fill the sky with killer pigeons to still make it feel dangerous while flying, but that is a bit dumb imo. I also prefer to play an MMO where upgradable/customizable ground and boat mount systems are in place. If you have those and then put flying mounts in it basically makes everything else obsolete. (I imagine people will wtf flame me for this)
    Totally agree, I hate flying mounts. Better to have some odd ball fast travel modes, like the OT hammer, or even something like the fire pots, in addition to drood/wizzy ports. Hell running to some of the damn portals to meet up with a porter was often exciting; flying mounts takes that away IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Merlin View Post
    Oh please. GW2 is closer to Battlefield then Everquest. The entire fight mechanics is build around a spastic, how fast can you run, jump, and click buttons. Its great if your 14 I suppose.
    I dont know how much you played GW2 but that sounds like a very initial opinion, once you knew the mechanics you stopped running like a panicked chicken usually. Anyway lets not derail this thread in that direction.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mahulk View Post
    Someone mentionned automation systems of FF10/12 and it spawned something in my mind. I wonder if it would work, because that could change the gameplay of support/healer classes. Think of a simple combat system driven by auto-attack(s) (and possibly an auto-heal function for healers) then add an opportunity system layer where different roles gets visual notifications to react to something that happened or that is going to happen.

    Exemple:
    Warrior auto-attacks, position the spider for the group, then receives a warning that his target is readying a powermove. Warrior trigger his block move and mitigates damage of said powermove, so far, nothing gamebreaking, it's been seen before. Since the tank reacted in time, the powermove was countered and open a backstab opportunity for the rogue, also the move added a poison effect on the tank, healer receives a warning that a party member has been poisonned, his reaction might even determines the final effect of the poison (if not removed before 5 seconds, target is stunned for 10 seconds). Five minutes in the fight, the bard gets a warning that a mana user is running out of mana, he then trigger his mana song.

    Basically, use opportunities to notify players that something requires their attention (instead of multiple UI elements) and to engage players in the fight like the rotation of skills was said to do when WoW came in. More engaging combat than EQ is good, but the bloating of skills and UI elements needs to be under control.
    Doesnt sound much different from WoW. Depending on how elaborate the spells swill be, you dont really need UI warnings. If a froglok shaman starts gating you fucking stun it. If a defias wizard starts a fireball you either kick or it'll hurt. You can see that happening in the game in 3D, we just need to re-learn not looking at all the UI bells+whistles. In that regard GW2 did good for example, very minimalistic. You had to learn the boss mob animations to know how to react to attacks, usually through trial and error. I much prefer the dragon pulling his head back for 2 seconds and then breathing fire as the only warning, as opposed to my UI going bonkers.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lethality View Post
    Interesting thoughts, but in this day of AI being all the buzz, and what Sony is doing with Storybricks in EQN, it almost seems like leashing behavior is a relic, and the creatures/NPCs can organically sort of do what they "think" is best/that they desire to do. Can we expect advanced AI, maybe even the Storybricks engine, in PRotF I wonder?
    I assume Storybricks is out of the question and advanced AI is putting resources into the wrong pool. Hence the request for a dozen or two simple behaviour patterns. Shouldnt take too much effort and add alot of immersion value.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shabushabu View Post
    To me limiting skills is just over-complicating something... let people put 1000000000 abilities on their bars if they want but design encounters around a subset. Either Limit or no Limit my fear of limits comes from games like GW2, neverwinter and stuff when they tell you where to slot certain skills ? Talk about retarded... that is when this shit goes to far.

    To be clear even in limited "active abilities" situations, please do not limit WHERE abilities can go... that is just horrible and restrictive nonsense

    I think you mentioned a sweet spot there, 24 abilities, 12 combat, 12 buff/other. If you are talking that number now you are basically getting a skill every other level assuming 50 levels... that's a pretty cool amount. I would see that as top end for a healer that does DPS, 6 heal/cures, 6 damage spells, then the other 12 for ( clickies, buffs, anything else you want to hotbar ).

    I would imagine melee fighters would be less, likely 6-10 only needed at all.
    I don't know I think perhaps less than that maybe five or six weapon abilities with auto attack and no more than 10 spell gems for casters and only for those toons that can cast some type of magic however, Don't do anything like GW2 that it auto gives you weapon abilities let us choose from the ones we have learned, also don't go the EQN route that each slot on the has a specific type of spell or ability that needs to go there (exp...defensive slot, offensive slot, movement and such),,,

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