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Thread: Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen - #1 Thread in MMO

  1. #2301
    MMO Refugee gogojira's Avatar
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    There's really good and really bad. Let's hope Brad's team leans on the good side of things!

  2. #2302
    Registered User zzeris's Avatar
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    I thought those videos were pretty good especially the ones Fedor shared. I especially liked the music and the feel of first person in a couple of them. It would be really nice to see Brad give us a real first person MMO once again. The other perspectives really reduce the immersion significantly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Azeth View Post
    Right okay fam, they're only the best franchise in 20 years because they've been cheating

  3. #2303
    Registered User Quineloe's Avatar
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    How does third person work with Oculus Rift anyways?

  4. #2304
    Administrator Draegan's Avatar
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    Engine demos really don't matter at all because there is no network code being shown in them. It's all done on a single PC. Engines typically don't matter at all, it's what you do with them.

    I wish them good luck. I look forward to seeing someone do something different.

  5. #2305
    Registered User Tauro's Avatar
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    The calm before the storm.....

    So, how about a little betting fun, 2 questions, short answers please:

    1.) How much money will Brad ask for, and how much will he get at the end of the kickstarter?

    2.) Who will cry/hate the most on this board after the reveal happened?


    My personal answers:
    1.) 1 mil / 2.5 mil
    2.) cry: tad10 / hate: ut

  6. #2306
    Registered User shabushabu's Avatar
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    Been reading up on Unity and I don't think its limited to Isometric as an "engine"... can anyone confirm this ? I suppose the real question i am asking is, will this MMO be Isometric ?

  7. #2307
    MRA Agent Extraordinar Skanda's Avatar
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    Unity is not limited to Isometric at all.

  8. #2308
    Registered User Mughal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tad10 View Post
    I don't see a serious coder in that group -_- I thought they had at least one.
    Because they are an unfunded vaporware project with no traction. Right now they are doing the stuff that is cheap to get buzz, like art etc.

    I'd love to see more smaller specialized MMOs but I don't think this is going to happen.

  9. #2309
    Registered Hoser Quaid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mughal View Post
    I'd love to see more smaller specialized MMOs but I don't think this is going to happen.
    And the bullshit opinions begin.

    What facts, if any, was this wet fart of a post based on?

  10. #2310
    Registered User Mughal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quaid View Post
    And the bullshit opinions begin.

    What facts, if any, was this wet fart of a post based on?
    My limited understanding of the MMO market. Also I would recommend you go back to bed and get up on the right side of it and stop being rude to others for no reasons other than you disagree with them.

  11. #2311
    Registered Hoser Quaid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mughal View Post
    My limited understanding of the MMO market. Also I would recommend you go back to bed and get up on the right side of it and stop being rude to others for no reasons other than you disagree with them.
    No, it's not because I disagree with you. It's because you made a troll post based on nothing but wild conjecture. Provide some kind of evidence or stfu and go back to posting on reddit.

  12. #2312
    Retired RR Pantheon Mod Convo's Avatar
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    There are going to be a lot of people who write this off.. Probably even more so from guys working in the industry like Mughal. It is what is.. It's up to Brad to prove people wrong all the way to the finish line. I obviously hope the naysayers are wrong. As pro this project I am, Brad earned his caution flag(race car pun for Brad)

  13. #2313
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quaid View Post
    No, it's not because I disagree with you. It's because you made a troll post based on nothing but wild conjecture. Provide some kind of evidence or stfu and go back to posting on reddit.
    Dude.
    tumblr_lieiteU6sg1qaws9po1_500.jpg

    I didn't know it was trolling to say that economics and the market didn't really favor smaller niche MMOs, which is really what Mughal was saying, in his opinion. I would agree, insomuch as lots of folks are going out of their way to avoid the MMO label entirely due to the baggage that brings. MMOs won't spark same way the indy game scene has lit up as it requires so much in the way of assets and infrastructure. There just doesn't seem to be anything smaller than Star Citizen even aiming for that market, and they are one of the ones I mentioned trying to really play down the MMO aspect. Hopefully a more mid-market approach will take off, without over-relying on a Zynga-style FTP approach.

  14. #2314
    Registered User popsicledeath's Avatar
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    What Muggle said wasn't wrong, just stupid to say. It's like saying "I bet that restaurant doesn't last" each time you pass a "Now Open" sign in a new restaurants window. Oh, your friend is getting married? My opinion is it's 50-50 whether they make it!

    Why, thank you for your amazing contribution to the conversation. Now that you've tried to sound smart, please take a minute to say something that actually supports your efforts.

  15. #2315
    Angry Halfling Luxer's Avatar
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    I would actually be very surprised if it doesn't get funded and is indeed vaporware. Everyone knew what state Vanguard was in when it launched and yet it still sold ~200,000 box copies; the allure of a current gen "hardcore" PvE mmo was enough to get people to buy. And my suspicion is that there is still a large enough niche audience (~300k) to at least fund a kickstarter. All you need is 10% of your potential audience to back you, Camelot Unchained had around 15k backers which was enough for the 2 million Mark Jacobs was asking for.

    I know I will definitely pay whatever the price is to get Alpha access.
    Last edited by Luxer; 01-02-2014 at 05:58 PM.

  16. #2316
    Nay. Tmac47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhinohelix View Post
    Dude.

    I didn't know it was trolling to say that economics and the market didn't really favor smaller niche MMOs, which is really what Mughal was saying, in his opinion.
    Quaid's just trying to get his feet firmly planted beside the fanboi standard pre-launch, so Brad knows who to go for a foot rub.

    Jimmies clearly russled.
    No more unicorns.

  17. #2317
    Registered PvPer Big Flex's Avatar
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    Go on a Christmas break and return to see this thread delivering in a major way.

    Internets 2014 Internets to be distributed among big players later today.

  18. #2318
    Retired RR Pantheon Mod Convo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luxer View Post
    I would actually be very surprised if it doesn't get funded and is indeed vaporware. Everyone knew what state Vanguard was in when it launched and yet it still sold ~200,000 box copies; the allure of a current gen "hardcore" PvE mmo was enough to get people to buy. And my suspicion is that there is still a large enough niche audience (~300k) to at least fund a kickstarter. All you need is 10% of your potential audience to back you, Camelot Unchained had around 15k backers which was enough for the 2 million Mark Jacobs was asking for.
    That's been my thought too. I know a lot of people(myself included) hate that SoE never went out and made a spiritual successor to EQ. It makes a lot of sense for them not to since all those people are still playing EQ, EQ2 and even VG. There is no telling what a game like this could draw. Very early speculation but it could even put a nail in the coffin of some of those older games.

  19. #2319
    Just this guy, you know. tad10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mughal View Post
    Because they are an unfunded vaporware project with no traction. Right now they are doing the stuff that is cheap to get buzz, like art etc.

    I'd love to see more smaller specialized MMOs but I don't think this is going to happen.
    There was never much hope, just a fool's hope.

  20. #2320
    Registered Hoser Quaid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tmac47 View Post
    Quaid's just trying to get his feet firmly planted beside the fanboi standard pre-launch, so Brad knows who to go for a foot rub.

    Jimmies clearly russled.
    Nah man, I just call it as I see it. Hell, I'm already disappointed by the 'god-king' concept art.

    The guy just called a basically unannounced game 'vaporware' with no evidence whatsoever. His assertion that the project has no professional coder is based on nothing but gogojira's attempt to confirm NewCo's team through clues on twitter and linkedin.

    I have to listen to people's bullshit opinions that they spew without any evidence day-in day-out and ignore it IRL for the sake of keeping the peace. You can be fucking sure I'm gonna call it out when someone does it here.

  21. #2321
    Registered Hoser Quaid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Flex View Post
    Go on a Christmas break and return to see this thread delivering in a major way.

    Internets 2014 Internets to be distributed among big players later today.
    Are you guys gonna tell him, or should I?

  22. #2322
    Just this guy, you know. tad10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhinohelix View Post
    I didn't know it was trolling to say that economics and the market didn't really favor smaller niche MMOs, which is really what Mughal was saying, in his opinion.
    1. I agree with Mughal that it's just vaporware right now.

    2. Disagree with your assessment if niche MMOs. EVE is niche and has done alright. I think the real problem with MMOs today is an attempt to appeal to everyone. Blizzard gets away with it because they have massive cash do they can afford Pokemon and Raiding in the same game. I think the future of MMOs, Blizz excepted, is niche MMOs.

  23. #2323
    Registered Hoser Quaid's Avatar
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    The game hasn't even been announced... It can't be vapourware. But, whatever makes you feel like a badass I suppose.

  24. #2324
    Retired RR Pantheon Mod Convo's Avatar
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    yea, I guess we can look to any project that doesn't have a big wallet behind it and say Vaporware. technically it could be true but that's not a fun opinion in an industry we so desperately need the smaller projects to succeed. Not that blind optimism is great either but I said all along I'm hoping the awareness of this project raises some eyebrows in a good way.

  25. #2325
    Just this guy, you know. tad10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quaid View Post
    The game hasn't even been announced... It can't be vapourware. But, whatever makes you feel like a badass I suppose.
    It is vapor untill and unless Brad gets at least a million from the kickstarter. A million won't pay for the MMO, but a million plus subscription based Alpha and beta access just might. Newco might consider having a medium reward level for alpha and a minimal reward level for beta (with breakouts into the earlier and later alphas/beta e.g. FnF Alpha 250, Alpha 100, Third Beta 50, Open Beta 25). And on top of that have a 5.00 monthly fee for participants going forward (regular fee of 14.99 not until live), so there is a steady stream of income to support development.

    Now to make things fair for us players, Newco should carry that fee forward and subtract it from live. Say Quaid buys First Beta $75. He then plays on and off for 12 months until it goes live. In total he pays the $5 fee 8 times (didn't play for four months during the beta period). Once live starts his first 8 months are only $10 on month 9 he starts paying $15.

  26. #2326
    Registered Hoser Quaid's Avatar
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    Tad man... Where are you getting these numbers from? What are you basing these conclusions on? We don't even know the scope of the game yet... It hasn't been announced.

  27. #2327
    Just this guy, you know. tad10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quaid View Post
    Tad man... Where are you getting these numbers from? What are you basing these conclusions on? We don't even know the scope of the game yet... It hasn't been announced.
    EQ cost 7 million in todays dollars. Brad is not going to be able to raise 7 million on kickstarter. And if the game is a lot smaller than vanilla EQ there won't be much for anyone to do at release, though I suppose Brad could keep on hanging a beta label on the game forever. A whole host of sins are forgiven for betas.

  28. #2328
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    I'm on the side that will probably be throwing money at this and still think they're unlikely to get enough funding for an MMO. I do think Mughals choice of words was unwise even if the message is valid, but going all "you take that back or I'll cut ya" is pointless.

  29. #2329
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quaid View Post
    Tad man... Where are you getting these numbers from? What are you basing these conclusions on? We don't even know the scope of the game yet... It hasn't been announced.
    The Garriot and whatever-that-DaoC-guy was called kickstarters both got like 2 mill, I'm guessing McQuaid is good for that much. Not for 7 mill though. And I also dont think the cost for making EQ adjusted by inflation is enough. DaoC guy actually got 5 mill total from his own stash plus investors I think? But we dont even want investors because it'll kill the integrity of the game a year down the road. So where does that leave us? Hoping that this project can pull a small Chris Roberts?

    As far as scope of the game goes, it's gotta be in the ballpark of EQ. A kickstarter for just Faydwer (5ish zones with 3 town and 3 dungeons) is not gonna fly.

  30. #2330
    MRA Agent Extraordinar Skanda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tad10 View Post
    but a million plus subscription based Alpha and beta access just might.
    Wasn't too long ago people were having epileptic fits over EQNL selling alpha/beta access for a FTP game and you think a subscription tacked onto alpha/beta will go over well?

  31. #2331
    Registered User Tauro's Avatar
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    First Week of DayZ Alpha | DAYZ

    400k copies sold in the first week for an alpha/early beta....

  32. #2332
    Transform, and roll out! Bruman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tad10 View Post
    EQ cost 7 million in todays dollars. Brad is not going to be able to raise 7 million on kickstarter. And if the game is a lot smaller than vanilla EQ there won't be much for anyone to do at release, though I suppose Brad could keep on hanging a beta label on the game forever. A whole host of sins are forgiven for betas.
    In EQ they wrote their own everythings too - now they're using Unity 3D which saves a lot of time (aka money).

    The costs are 100% not comparable.

  33. #2333
    MRA Agent Extraordinar Skanda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tauro View Post
    First Week of DayZ Alpha | DAYZ

    400k copies sold in the first week for an alpha/early beta....
    That's an already released game that has an established player base and has no subscription required. In no way comparable to BradCo's new game nor comparable to Tad10's brilliant "just tack a sub onto alpha and watch the money hats roll in" scenario.

  34. #2334
    Just this guy, you know. tad10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skanda View Post
    Wasn't too long ago people were having epileptic fits over EQNL selling alpha/beta access for a FTP game and you think a subscription tacked onto alpha/beta will go over well?
    People either have to pay up or shut up if they want an improved EQ. This game was never going to be FTP and was always going to cost us players more than it should. I think Creed is optimistic on the 2 million, but fine. That means they have to come up with another 5 million between inception and delivery as a live game. Maybe modern engines, tools and free player contributions can reduce that total but not by much. $5 per month probably isn't enough. Without an Angel investor I don't see how they do it except multiple kickstarters or a alpha/beta sub fee and I think the sub fee is less distracting.

  35. #2335
    Just this guy, you know. tad10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skanda View Post
    That's an already released game that has an established player base and has no subscription required. In no way comparable to BradCo's new game nor comparable to Tad10's brilliant "just tack a sub onto alpha and watch the money hats roll in" scenario.
    Yes. It is fucking brilliant because you get what you paid for in reduced subscription fees for the amount you paid in beta once the game goes live. Oh, and you also get a completed game.

  36. #2336
    Registered User Tauro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skanda View Post
    That's an already released game that has an established player base and has no subscription required. In no way comparable to BradCo's new game nor comparable to Tad10's brilliant "just tack a sub onto alpha and watch the money hats roll in" scenario.
    You are right of course, but even so, it shows that there are a lot of people willing to pay money to play a game they like, even if its an alpha. Also, a successful KS is really only the beginning of the fundraising. Continued pledge options on your own homepage and possibly steam greenlight when the time is right can easily double the KS money (at least if they have a real game to show/play).

  37. #2337
    MRA Agent Extraordinar Skanda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tauro View Post
    You are right of course, but even so, it shows that there are a lot of people willing to pay money to play a game they like, even if its an alpha. Also, a successful KS is really only the beginning of the fundraising. Continued pledge options on your own homepage and possibly steam greenlight when the time is right can easily double the KS money (at least if they have a real game to show/play).
    I agree with the first part. I'm one of the one's who bought into Landmark already so I can't stand here and shit on people who would put down money for a Kickstarter or pay for a base access package to Brad's game. I do think that a lot of people who would otherwise be friendly toward Brad's game would balk if you introduced a subscription requirement to the Alpha. Once it's released, sure, anything goes. But after reading all the threads here on this board with people bitching about Kickstarter/Early Access in general and shitting all over SoE for the Landmark cash grab I can only imagine the toxic shit that will be flung if you have to pay monthly for alpha access.

  38. #2338
    Just this guy, you know. tad10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skanda View Post
    But after reading all the threads here on this board with people bitching about Kickstarter/Early Access in general and shitting all over SoE for the Landmark cash grab I can only imagine the toxic shit that will be flung if you have to pay monthly for alpha access.
    World of difference between giant co making money grab and small co desperate for funding. The players who want the game will pay if you structure the deal properly thus my suggestion of equivalent reduction of paid-in subscription once game goes live. There are other possibilities such as in late beta you can keep your character for live. Or early alpha you can reserve your character / guild name for live. Character eligibility for artifact items like a manastone equivalent. Yada, yada, yada.

    Just because it hasn't been done doesn't mean it can't be or shouldn't be done.

  39. #2339
    MMO Refugee gogojira's Avatar
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    Using vaporware as a term is so vague and up for interpretation. I think it's funny that people are making assumptions about the team based on a few names I pulled from a hat. The truth is you're going to find very few people willing to leave one risky job for an even riskier job unless they're extremely comfortable with their financial situation. The team is bigger than my little list and there's at least one other person I'm almost certain is on the team and another Brad is trying to grab.

    If you want to call this project vapor, that applies to roughly 99 percent of other Kickstarter projects. I reserve that title for long-in development games that stand very little chance of ever releasing like The Last Guardian. Technically I couple of iterations of EQN reached vapor status.

    This project is fresh off the ground and has a tremendous amount of obstacles to hurdle, but that's the nature of Kickstarter games or risky ventures in general. You're banking and crossing your fingers on a market you think exists and you think you can satisfy.

    While everyone dreamed of under the table deals with Sony, the more likely scenario happened and they picked an engine designed for small teams with limited funding. There will be sacrifices because of it but it also means that at the very least, there's a chance that this happens. Based on what I've heard (and we all know it's happening in January anyways), this thing is launching very, very soon.

    Maybe I'm playing the optimist, but until the game has a name, a website and I see what progress has been made, I'll avoid calling it vaporware.

  40. #2340
    MRA Agent Extraordinar Skanda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tad10 View Post
    Just because it hasn't been done doesn't mean it can't be or shouldn't be done.
    He should make it FTP with microtransactions. Don't want to make that corpse run? 5 Dollar plz!

  41. #2341
    Just this guy, you know. tad10's Avatar
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    Everyone did not dream of a Sony connection. A number of ex Vanguard players won't touch any game associated with SOE because of how they got screwed over by the Sony VG team. People forget that post APW, Vanguard actually came a little ways back from the dead then SOE killed development and the game.

    It is good news that SOE/Smed is not involved.

  42. #2342
    Just this guy, you know. tad10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skanda View Post
    He should make it FTP with microtransactions. Don't want to make that corpse run? 5 Dollar plz!
    So you were just trolling. Nice.

  43. #2343
    MMO Refugee gogojira's Avatar
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    To rephrase it because "dream" is the wrong choice of words, there were a lot of hopes (myself included, so I'm not just attacking people) that Brad's SOE connections would be used as tech leverage within SOE. There was definitely the odd "maybe he'll get unused EQ3 assets" and I personally had a misunderstanding of Storybricks.

  44. #2344
    MRA Agent Extraordinar Skanda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tad10 View Post
    So you were just trolling. Nice.
    I prefer to think of it as managing expectations. All he's done is show a few pieces of art so far and yet half this thread is, once again, acting like Brad can do no wrong. The Microtransaction quip was just answering stupid with stupid.

  45. #2345
    Just this guy, you know. tad10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skanda View Post
    I prefer to think of it as managing expectations. All he's done is show a few pieces of art so far and yet half this thread is, once again, acting like Brad can do no wrong. The Microtransaction quip was just answering stupid with stupid.
    Trolling confirmed.

  46. #2346
    Just this guy, you know. tad10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogojira View Post
    To rephrase it because "dream" is the wrong choice of words, there were a lot of hopes (myself included, so I'm not just attacking people) that Brad's SOE connections would be used as tech leverage within SOE. There was definitely the odd "maybe he'll get unused EQ3 assets" and I personally had a misunderstanding of Storybricks.
    Yeah, too bad about SB. But there has to be some other dynamic content middleware they can leverage. As others have suggested would be a good thing if there were some advances to core game play such as a mix of static and dynamic mobs.

  47. #2347
    MRA Agent Extraordinar Skanda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tad10 View Post
    Trolling confirmed.
    Suddenly I understand your stupidity in the OMG Tuna thread better. You can't conceive that people could actually disagree with you without them being trolls.

  48. #2348
    Survived 9/23/2015 Soygen's Avatar
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    This thread is going to be so entertaining over the next couple of years.

  49. #2349
    Just this guy, you know. tad10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skanda View Post
    Suddenly I understand your stupidity in the OMG Tuna thread better. You can't conceive that people could actually disagree with you without them being trolls.
    You're just pissed you can't come up with a better alternative to fully funding EverBrad.

  50. #2350
    Registered User Spynx's Avatar
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    newest rerolled member.....Aradune eboner engaged

  51. #2351
    Retired RR Pantheon Mod Convo's Avatar
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    ha i think most following this thread knows he signed up yesterday. good for him on planning posting here

  52. #2352
    (ಥ ̯ ಥ) pharmakos's Avatar
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    i bet he's working on reading all 118 pages first

    gonna be a mindfuck i bet lol

  53. #2353
    Retired RR Pantheon Mod Convo's Avatar
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    Ha he was following the thread already. Not sure how closely but he was following it..

    He's probably pretty "apathetic" to a lot of the comments.. right TMac!?
    Last edited by Convo; 01-02-2014 at 11:40 PM.

  54. #2354
    Registered User Dahkoht's Avatar
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    I'm with Tad on the idea Brad could fund it with a kickstarter to get going and selling Alpha access to closed beta and so on , and could either build in the alpha/early access cost high enough to not need monthly subs till launch or charge a small fee monthly. And I'm fully one of the ones bitching at SOE for going the massive corporation kickstarter , but got over it and am awaiting the alpha of EQL to start after buying the alpha package. (side note , that's as much of a statement on the shit state of mmo's today that the EQL alpha has my interest peaked more than most every other pump and dump , easy mode , actiony mmo released lately)

    But as far as Brad's goes , original EQ gave me more enjoyment dollar for dollar than any other PC game. Over a period of years at that during what was the peak of PC games for me, with occasional flashes like Myth The Fallen Lords , original Tribes , and a few others , I could always count on I'd enjoy EQ. Followed up with a failed Vanguard today still has me remember overall how much I enjoyed it and it's "world feel" that most mmo's have abandoned.

    So in the end , if Brad's announcement points to two critical things for me,

    1=Focus on the idea that the virtual world > most every other thing for a fantasy mmo. (Don't take me out of the game for cutscenes , make travel matter , limit instances to none to little and so on )

    2=Stick to the "niche" idea. I'm a former 20 something EQ player now in my 40's , family and career, thus a "filthy casual" in some ways , but want it to take me forever to "level" , travel , and a couple hours of enjoying a virtual world nightly and getting little "progress" is fine with me. I've got 1000 other crap hub , instanced mmo's I can login now and level to max in a week, I don't fucking need or want any of those and would like to to take me a year to "max". So make this game for the original EQ/VG crowd who is sick of hearing the "rose colored glasses" shit. It's not rose colored nostalgia , it's that I fucking prefer that kind of game and so do others.

    do both of those things , stick with it , and I'll gladly support the kickstarter.

    Roberts has shown people will spend tons on space ships , I'll put my money down for a virtual fantasy world.
    Last edited by Dahkoht; 01-02-2014 at 11:43 PM.

  55. #2355
    Registered User arallu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tad10 View Post
    Yeah, too bad about SB.
    What happened with SB? Arent they just 3rd party software, like Voxel Farm, that you can license?
    Their website even has a note about other projects: "We have other unannounced projects that we are working on but we aren’t quite ready to talk about yet."

  56. #2356
    Just this guy, you know. tad10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arallu View Post
    What happened with SB? Arent they just 3rd party software, like Voxel Farm, that you can license?
    Their website even has a note about other projects: "We have other unannounced projects that we are working on but we aren’t quite ready to talk about yet."
    They're very small and their resources are tied up with SOE. It's not a plug and play tech. You would think there would be other dynamic mob middleware though.

  57. #2357
    Just this guy, you know. tad10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dahkoht View Post
    I'm with Tad on the idea Brad could fund it with a kickstarter to get going and selling Alpha access to closed beta and so on , and could either build in the alpha/early access cost high enough to not need monthly subs till launch or charge a small fee monthly.
    I didn't think of it that way, but you're right. Brad can do an either/or - he doesn't have to do one or the other like I was thinking.

    Example:
    Reward Level of $1000 for FnFAlpha Access with no monthly fee until live, Uber title, Name reservation for live and a very nice starting item.
    Reward Level of $750 for FnFAlpha Access with first month free, but $10 monthly fee thereafter. Uber title, Name reservation and same very nice starting item

    Reward Level of $500 for BetaOne Access with no monthly fee until live, less uber title, name reservation and nice starting item.
    Reward Level of $250 for BetaOne Access, much-less uber title. Name reservation and same nice starting item. First month of BetaOne free, but $10 monthly fee thereafter until live - then $15 dollars (but $5.00 off for every month you paid or something??).

    Reward Level of $150 for BetaThree Access with no monthly fee, yada, yada, yada.
    Reward Level of $50 for BetaThree Access with First month free but $10 montly thereafter, yada, yada, yada.

    You could even build in something like LOTRO's lifetime sub at very high reward level like:

    Reward Level of $10,000 or $15,000. FnF Access and a Lifetime sub to the game, never a sub fee, and name a major NPC King/Queen, etc.
    Last edited by tad10; 01-03-2014 at 01:11 AM. Reason: Failed skill check
    #Kobane

    Quote Originally Posted by Iannis View Post
    Surrogates have been calling Trump a racist and a sexist for months now. I'm not sure how well that's working out.

  58. #2358
    Registered User Dahkoht's Avatar
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    Another interesting twist I think he could do to sell more kickstarter packages is not follow the idea that each tier has to be one only. Using your example taking the 250 dollar one , make one like you listed , and another that gives alpha access and nothing else , no name reservation , no special items and so on. There would be some who bought the one you listed , valuing the items and name and happy with starting in early beta , while there likely would be others who purely value getting in as early as possible but not quite enough for the higher level packages that get alpha and the items. There just seems potential to overall get more money with something like that.

  59. #2359
    Retired RR Pantheon Mod Convo's Avatar
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    ha those early alpha fees are a bit high. I think ultimately you want people feeling they can access the game at an early point. The higher prices could turn people away. $100 is a lot to most people. That should be getting you in alpha imo. People paying $150 don't want to test the last build right before it goes live. Be interesting to see what Brad does in form of entry.

    Keep in mind.. There are probably 100-500k people who would be at least interested in this project in it's infant level. That's not to say they will fund a KS but if the entry to open beta is say $25 with early alpha being $100 you might grab a lot more people.

  60. #2360
    Just this guy, you know. tad10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Convo View Post
    ha those early alpha fees are a bit high. I think ultimately you want people feeling they can access the game at an early point. The higher prices could turn people away. $100 is a lot to most people. That should be getting you in alpha imo. People paying $150 don't want to test the last build right before it goes live. Be interesting to see what Brad does in form of entry.

    Keep in mind.. There are probably 100-500k people who would be at least interested in this project in it's infant level. That's not to say they will fund a KS but if the entry to open beta is say $25 with early alpha being $100 you might grab a lot more people.
    There is no way they could handle that amount of people. Remember that optimization is one of the last things that happens with an mmo rollout.

    Not only couldn't the (likely) single server handle the number of people who would dive into alpha at the 150 level there also wouldn't be a lot for them to do. Check out project gorgon sometime. The cheap tickets should be beta 3 or later. They can add multiple servers, there will be things to do and they can plan on a long beta period since it'd be a paid beta mostly.

    Just my .02

    @Dahkoht. Agree they can play with rewards to maximize return.
    Last edited by tad10; 01-03-2014 at 01:33 AM.

  61. #2361
    MMO Refugee gogojira's Avatar
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    Brad still can't post, shooting another message off to Draegan. Look, just give me mod rights and I can assist.
    Last edited by gogojira; 01-03-2014 at 01:36 AM.

  62. #2362
    Registered Idiot Laura's Avatar
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    I think the best pledge rewards are things like:

    1. Name an NPC (it's an MMORPG so there are plenty of NPCs)
    2. Name and help design a dungeon boss (you get to choose how it looks like, what kind of "class" it is something like that)
    3. Help design a dungeon (this one should be for the big $$ pledge tiers around $5,000 you get to name the dungeon and theme and help design it)
    4. 10%, 20%, 30% life time subscription discount
    5. T-shirts, collectables, signed art, figurines...etc
    6. Some in-game exclusive items
    7. More character slots per account/server
    8. Reserve your character name

    Of course alpha/beta access and every tier is a combination of several things.
    If you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth." - Joseph Goebbels

  63. #2363
    Retired RR Pantheon Mod Convo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogojira View Post
    Brad still can't post, shooting another message off to Draegan. Look, just give me mod rights and I can assist.
    Seriously

  64. #2364
    Survived 9/23/2015 Soygen's Avatar
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    I believe I fixed Brad's account. Tell him to try again.

  65. #2365
    Registered Yiffer Furry's Avatar
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    Vanguard was a bad, bad game. If brad is willing to put up with the shitstorm that is this board again, I will get suckered into buying it yet again. Gotta respect the man and his project if he is willing to put up with us.

  66. #2366
    Registered User Mur's Avatar
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    The KS will already be getting some of my sweet tax return money; the following will ensure it gets more.

    1. Dungeons similar to the Guks, Sol A & B; big conplex, OMG I will never find my way out of this Hell, type dungeons. I want to see a shit load of names when I do a /who in a dungeon.
    2. Loot that I use for months. I want to have a long term and meaningful relationship with my equipment, not 20 drops in a night, and all trash.
    3. Trolls. No Trolls and I retire from MMO's, and burn down a church.

    Yup that's all I need really. Oh, and the ability to get fall down dizzy drunk. (Increase to STR/STA of course)

  67. #2367
    Just this guy, you know. tad10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Convo View Post
    $100 is a lot to most people.
    For the record $100 is a lot to me too at this exact point in time due to Christmas presents, car payment and rent, so I understand. I'm actually hoping the kickstarter doesn't start until the 15th or so when I actually have a little money I can blow on it.
    #Kobane

    Quote Originally Posted by Iannis View Post
    Surrogates have been calling Trump a racist and a sexist for months now. I'm not sure how well that's working out.

  68. #2368
    Registered User Fedor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soygen View Post
    I believe I fixed Brad's account. Tell him to try again.

  69. #2369
    Registered User Aradune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soygen View Post
    I believe I fixed Brad's account. Tell him to try again.
    Woot! I'm in! Thank you

    -Brad

  70. #2370
    Registered User Fedor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aradune View Post
    Woot! I'm in! Thank you

    -Brad

  71. #2371
    Registered User zzeris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laura View Post
    I think the best pledge rewards are things like:

    1. Name an NPC (it's an MMORPG so there are plenty of NPCs)
    2. Name and help design a dungeon boss (you get to choose how it looks like, what kind of "class" it is something like that)
    3. Help design a dungeon (this one should be for the big $$ pledge tiers around $5,000 you get to name the dungeon and theme and help design it)
    4. 10%, 20%, 30% life time subscription discount
    5. T-shirts, collectables, signed art, figurines...etc
    6. Some in-game exclusive items
    7. More character slots per account/server
    8. Reserve your character name

    Of course alpha/beta access and every tier is a combination of several things.
    This sounds like the best options to get a real source of funding. You don't want to over promise and you want easily obtainable rewards that truly cost you nothing. These are goals that have already worked as a source of funds. No need to reinvent the wheel on funding when you need to focus on bringing a top gaming experience.
    Quote Originally Posted by Azeth View Post
    Right okay fam, they're only the best franchise in 20 years because they've been cheating

  72. #2372
    Registered User Aradune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aradune View Post
    Woot! I'm in! Thank you

    -Brad
    Immediate disclaimer: I'm not going to be able to answer much of anything until the KS site is up. I just figured I'd pop in here and there. I do read threads like this one and elsewhere. I hope that me popping in to say hello doesn't just frustrate you guys -- if so, apologies in advance.

    -Brad

  73. #2373
    Registered Yiffer Furry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aradune View Post
    Immediate disclaimer: I'm not going to be able to answer much of anything until the KS site is up. I just figured I'd pop in here and there. I do read threads like this one and elsewhere. I hope that me popping in to say hello doesn't just frustrate you guys -- if so, apologies in advance.

    -Brad
    Hell no, welcome.

  74. #2374
    Retired RR Pantheon Mod Convo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aradune View Post
    Immediate disclaimer: I'm not going to be able to answer much of anything until the KS site is up. I just figured I'd pop in here and there. I do read threads like this one and elsewhere. I hope that me popping in to say hello doesn't just frustrate you guys -- if so, apologies in advance.

    -Brad
    I think at this point a lot us just wanted to be assured you were following... IMO this thread has some good insight.
    Welcome back

  75. #2375
    MMO Refugee gogojira's Avatar
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    Glad to see it finally worked. Welcome Brad!

  76. #2376
    Registered User shabushabu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Convo View Post
    I think at this point a lot us just wanted to be assured you were following... IMO this thread has some good insight.
    Welcome back
    Yes indeed !

    /welcomeback Aradune

  77. #2377
    Just this guy, you know. tad10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aradune View Post
    Immediate disclaimer: I'm not going to be able to answer much of anything until the KS site is up. I just figured I'd pop in here and there. I do read threads like this one and elsewhere. I hope that me popping in to say hello doesn't just frustrate you guys -- if so, apologies in advance.

    -Brad
    the-abyss-special-edition-original1-418x235.jpg
    #Kobane

    Quote Originally Posted by Iannis View Post
    Surrogates have been calling Trump a racist and a sexist for months now. I'm not sure how well that's working out.

  78. #2378
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    Welcome back =P
    Bnet: GonzytheMage#1265
    PSN: GonzytheMage

  79. #2379
    Brazilian 0.o NativityInBlack's Avatar
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    Welcome Brad! Godspeed on the new project.

    I'm hoping for something like EQ on the early Firiona Vie Server setting.

  80. #2380
    Retired RR Pantheon Mod Convo's Avatar
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    Brad- will you be talking about your past in regard to VG and what you've learned..in the KS? That seems to be a point of contention for a lot of folks.

  81. #2381
    Registered User Aradune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GonzytheMage View Post
    Welcome back =P
    Thanks all -- it's great to be back. This is an exciting time. We can't wait to get the KS site up, but we want to make sure it's truly ready and has good info and even some polish.

    And I totally agree, there's some great feedback and ideas in this thread. Much appreciated, thank you.

    -Brad

  82. #2382
    Registered User Mur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aradune View Post
    We can't wait to get the KS site up, but we want to make sure it's truly ready and has good info and even some polish.

    -Brad
    This is a good one to look at for inspiration. They got a few Hundred from me...

    Project Eternity by Obsidian Entertainment Kickstarter

    Looking forward to see the new Vision™

  83. #2383
    Retired RR Pantheon Mod Convo's Avatar
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    Hopefully you guys consider a forum with KS donations. Be cool to post in a private forum with only people who fund in the beginning.

    Edit.. this KS needs to launch! We need to talk about this game lol
    Last edited by Convo; 01-03-2014 at 02:25 AM.

  84. #2384
    MMO Refugee gogojira's Avatar
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    An idea that worked with NeoGAF for Project Eternity was creating an account and lumping some money together to get an in-game Inn which was one of the higher end tiers. It was a donate what you want, if you want thing and they actually rallied enough support to raise enough money. I forget how they distributed the rewards that came along with the tier, but it was likely in the form of a raffle. Who knows if Brad will offer a similar reward, but it might be an interesting idea if there'd be enough support for it here. Understandably we need to see the game first, but it was a pretty cool initiative for the Eternity backers.

  85. #2385
    Retired RR Pantheon Mod Convo's Avatar
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    Maybe we could get a raid zone called Rerolled Hollow!? Fill it with epic EQ like encounters.

  86. #2386
    MMO Refugee gogojira's Avatar
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    Also, is the game set to be called Panthefon: RotF? Concept art image and all of the people known on the team following it (and me ).

  87. #2387
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    Can't wait to see some new information coming out soon!

  88. #2388
    Retired RR Pantheon Mod Convo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogojira View Post
    Also, is the game set to be called Panthefon: RotF? Concept art image and all of the people known on the team following it (and me ).
    nice find dude. just gotta figure out what the F at the end is. Panthefon Realm of the ...

  89. #2389
    Registered User Mur's Avatar
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    Gogojira sleuthing the intrawebs...


  90. #2390
    Registered User Aradune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Convo View Post
    Brad- will you be talking about your past in regard to VG and what you've learned in the KS? That seems to be a point of contention for a lot of folks.
    If I need to, yes. I really don't want to dwell on the past -- it's time to be forward thinking and to get excited about the future. That said, you guys need to know that we've learned from our mistakes so some discussion may be appropriate. If we aren't honest and we don't learn from the past, then the past was simply a failure and a defeat. I refuse to look at it that way and we won't be defeated by the mistakes of the past, because we are going to learn from them and do a better job this time. I've learned so much, especially about myself, because of both my successes and my failures.

    For me it all came in a frustrating sequence. 9 times out of 10 a person fails, fails, fails, and then succeeds (if he ever succeeds at all). For me it was 1. huge success (half a billion dollars of profit for Sony, etc.), 2. Commercial failure (I say commercial because I still think VG was awesome in many ways and Im still proud of it)

    Anyway, the success first and failure second really jacked with my mind. I became extremely arrogant, thinking whatever I touched would turn into gold. And then when things didn't work out so well on my second try it was really quite a blow to me because I had deluded myself big time. I ended up in a bad place and I never want to be back there again, ever.

    But also in learning more about myself over the years, I know this is what I want to do for the rest of my life: make MMOs that I and other gamers want to play. It's just who I am and it's the only thing that professionally makes me happy.

    I just don't want to get bogged down in the past too much. If it makes sense to discuss something about the past, then I'll participate. But to be totally upfront and honest, I'm here primarily to promote my new game. It's a blast talking with you all, and I'm here for that as well, but let's spend most of the time here together facing forward. We will need your feedback and opinions in order to insure we make the game you guys want and that I want. It's about community building and being accessible.

    Anyways, I hope that makes sense.

    -Brad

  91. #2391
    Registered User Mur's Avatar
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    Pantheon: Return of the Fippy

  92. #2392
    MMO Refugee gogojira's Avatar
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    I'm banking on Fallen, but Fippy would be so good.
    Last edited by gogojira; 01-03-2014 at 04:33 AM.

  93. #2393
    Registered User Vilmz's Avatar
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    Now we're getting somewhere. Oh hi Brad :P

  94. #2394
    Registered User Spynx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aradune View Post
    If I need to, yes. I really don't want to dwell on the past -- it's time to be forward thinking and to get excited about the future. That said, you guys need to know that we've learned from our mistakes so some discussion may be appropriate. If we aren't honest and we don't learn from the past, then the past was simply a failure and a defeat. I refuse to look at it that way and we won't be defeated by the mistakes of the past, because we are going to learn from them and do a better job this time. I've learned so much, especially about myself, because of both my successes and my failures.

    For me it all came in a frustrating sequence. 9 times out of 10 a person fails, fails, fails, and then succeeds (if he ever succeeds at all). For me it was 1. huge success (half a billion dollars of profit for Sony, etc.), 2. Commercial failure (I say commercial because I still think VG was awesome in many ways and Im still proud of it)

    Anyway, the success first and failure second really jacked with my mind. I became extremely arrogant, thinking whatever I touched would turn into gold. And then when things didn't work out so well on my second try it was really quite a blow to me because I had deluded myself big time. I ended up in a bad place and I never want to be back there again, ever.

    But also in learning more about myself over the years, I know this is what I want to do for the rest of my life: make MMOs that I and other gamers want to play. It's just who I am and it's the only thing that professionally makes me happy.

    I just don't want to get bogged down in the past too much. If it makes sense to discuss something about the past, then I'll participate. But to be totally upfront and honest, I'm here primarily to promote my new game. It's a blast talking with you all, and I'm here for that as well, but let's spend most of the time here together facing forward. We will need your feedback and opinions in order to insure we make the game you guys want and that I want. It's about community building and being accessible.

    Anyways, I hope that makes sense.

    -Brad

    I am so fucking hard right now

  95. #2395
    MMO Refugee gogojira's Avatar
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    Extremely well said, Brad.

  96. #2396
    Retired RR Pantheon Mod Convo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aradune View Post
    If I need to, yes. I really don't want to dwell on the past -- it's time to be forward thinking and to get excited about the future. That said, you guys need to know that we've learned from our mistakes so some discussion may be appropriate. If we aren't honest and we don't learn from the past, then the past was simply a failure and a defeat. I refuse to look at it that way and we won't be defeated by the mistakes of the past, because we are going to learn from them and do a better job this time. I've learned so much, especially about myself, because of both my successes and my failures.

    For me it all came in a frustrating sequence. 9 times out of 10 a person fails, fails, fails, and then succeeds (if he ever succeeds at all). For me it was 1. huge success (half a billion dollars of profit for Sony, etc.), 2. Commercial failure (I say commercial because I still think VG was awesome in many ways and I’m still proud of it)

    Anyway, the success first and failure second really jacked with my mind. I became extremely arrogant, thinking whatever I touched would turn into gold. And then when things didn't work out so well on my second try it was really quite a blow to me because I had deluded myself big time. I ended up in a bad place and I never want to be back there again, ever.

    But also in learning more about myself over the years, I know this is what I want to do for the rest of my life: make MMOs that I and other gamers want to play. It's just who I am and it's the only thing that professionally makes me happy.

    I just don't want to get bogged down in the past too much. If it makes sense to discuss something about the past, then I'll participate. But to be totally upfront and honest, I'm here primarily to promote my new game. It's a blast talking with you all, and I'm here for that as well, but let's spend most of the time here together facing forward. We will need your feedback and opinions in order to insure we make the game you guys want and that I want. It's about community building and being accessible.

    Anyways, I hope that makes sense.

    -Brad
    Good for me but I said a while back for your game to do the talking. Thanks for the honesty

    Put me down for fallen too. With a twitter account we could be really close to KS?? Less then a week?!
    Last edited by Convo; 01-03-2014 at 02:49 AM.

  97. #2397
    Just this guy, you know. tad10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aradune View Post
    If I need to, yes. I really don't want to dwell on the past -- it's time to be forward thinking and to get excited about the future. That said, you guys need to know that we've learned from our mistakes so some discussion may be appropriate. If we aren't honest and we don't learn from the past, then the past was simply a failure and a defeat. I refuse to look at it that way and we won't be defeated by the mistakes of the past, because we are going to learn from them and do a better job this time. I've learned so much, especially about myself, because of both my successes and my failures.

    For me it all came in a frustrating sequence. 9 times out of 10 a person fails, fails, fails, and then succeeds (if he ever succeeds at all). For me it was 1. huge success (half a billion dollars of profit for Sony, etc.), 2. Commercial failure (I say commercial because I still think VG was awesome in many ways and Im still proud of it)

    Anyway, the success first and failure second really jacked with my mind. I became extremely arrogant, thinking whatever I touched would turn into gold. And then when things didn't work out so well on my second try it was really quite a blow to me because I had deluded myself big time. I ended up in a bad place and I never want to be back there again, ever.

    But also in learning more about myself over the years, I know this is what I want to do for the rest of my life: make MMOs that I and other gamers want to play. It's just who I am and it's the only thing that professionally makes me happy.

    I just don't want to get bogged down in the past too much. If it makes sense to discuss something about the past, then I'll participate. But to be totally upfront and honest, I'm here primarily to promote my new game. It's a blast talking with you all, and I'm here for that as well, but let's spend most of the time here together facing forward. We will need your feedback and opinions in order to insure we make the game you guys want and that I want. It's about community building and being accessible.

    Anyways, I hope that makes sense.

    -Brad
    Fair enough but I'm a lot more concerned with whether or not you figured out that Vanguard was a glorious example of the Second System effect (aka scope creep) and you all plan to focus on being more focused instead of big for the sake of being big.

  98. #2398
    Registered User arallu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spynx View Post
    I am so fucking hard right now
    Same!
    /getting fistfuls of money ready

  99. #2399
    Retired RR Pantheon Mod Convo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arallu View Post
    Same!!
    /getting fistfuls of money ready
    Lol...

    Brad will your KS take access card?? Tmac wanted me to ask you??

  100. #2400
    Registered User Fedor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogojira View Post
    Also, is the game set to be called Panthefon: RotF? Concept art image and all of the people known on the team following it (and me ).
    the description is the most important part


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