I do know that i hate playing a conjurer in Fates, everything dies too cast to hit with spells and my targetting filters means i don't target PCs unless i change them, which means i have to change them back on my Tank/DPS.
So since we have a new shiny subforum figured I'd make a thread about healers. Mostly I wanna know if there's WHMs that are 40+, how is your mana like? Having issues, have to pace yourself, is Shroud of Saints actually good, stuff like that. I remember in beta I fucking hated playing CNJ because of the mana issues which forced me to stand still and do jackshit on long fights in fear of running out of mana when shit was going to hit the fan(when boss reaches 50%). Also Ether(mana pots) are awful as fuck as far as I can tell, at least on my SCH. Like I drink an Ether and it gives me like what is it 100mana. Can't even cast a basic heal with that and cooldown is like 2mins, stupid.
Also copy pasting stuff I posted in main thread about scholar healing. Maybe I'll go into more details and/or make a video later on about the class, probably once I'm 50(and no don't believe the subforum message, I'm not 50 yet).
I do know that i hate playing a conjurer in Fates, everything dies too cast to hit with spells and my targetting filters means i don't target PCs unless i change them, which means i have to change them back on my Tank/DPS.
You're doing FATEs wrong if you don't like them on a CNJ. They are by FAR the best FATE farming class. Just tab target and throw Aero on everything. You can use the mob list to see if you've already thrown Aero on a mob. If you have, tab again. I've run into FATEs that are like 20 seconds from being over and still made gold. The only ones they suck on is single target boss FATEs unless you're there from the beginning.
By far the BEST? Come on man, the acn can toss Aero out, too, as can the THM who is probably going to just AE shit to tag everything anyway. Any class with AE > any class w/o.
What do you mean by "legacy" tanks?
EQ Beta B Tester.
Here's my WHM guide:
In all somewhat seriousness:
You can survive pretty easily as a CNJ/WHM prior to Regen by just spamming Cure and the times when you get a Free Cure proc using Cure II. Depending on the amount of DPS the tank is receiving I'll usually throw out 2 - 3 Cures to see if I get a Free Cure proc. If so then I just buffer it and DPS a bit, fire off the free Cure II, and repeat. You can generally spam Cure I until the cows come home without running out of mana. As the damage output of trash increases though you definitely have to weave in your Cure II with some intelligence because your mana / regen just won't allow you to spam it 100% of the time.
Regen changes things just a bit but honestly just makes dealing with AEs / Off damage easier. DPS pulls aggro for a second, toss a Regen on them and forget. Know that an AE is coming, throw around a Regen and don't worry about it. I like it more than Medica, especially due to the distance limitation of the Medica AE. One of the considerations is that Regen is instant cast and on the GCD. So if you are too quick on the trigger with Regen but need to quickly big heal the tank, you'll be waiting the full GCD to cast again (btw the same goes for the WHM cooldowns too I think, damn things only last like 8 seconds and you're stuck waiting 2 seconds for the GCD to finish... I am really bad at using them so could be completely wrong). Pre-regen'ing can being annoying since the tick will pull aggro if the tank doesn't initiate with enough.
Stoneskin (+Graniteskin) I've found is trash and barely worth casting. It'll give you at most 1 hit and more likely .75 of a hit at higher levels.
Just got Cure III and am not immediately impressed, but don't have the talent to make it work with Cure II. But the mana cost vs. just tossing a Regen or Medica doesn't seem right. Probably just not used to it yet.
Like I said above, I'm really bad about using my longer cooldowns. Shroud of Saints, Presence of Mind, etc... The long cooldown on them just means I usually forget about them. Probably need to work on it, but really nothing is so hard up til 44 that we've only survived b/c of them.
That's a lot of rambling and stream of consciousness. Would love to hear other ways. Really based on what I've read about Scholar healing playing a WHM seems frustrating at best. But since I'm healer I've obviously never grouped with one to even compare.
So, I guess it's not possible to get Selene to alternate speed buffs without having to manually cast Fey Light the moment Fey Glow fades? If you don't catch it instantly, she will clip Light with Glow as soon as the cooldown is up. Pain in the ass.
Oh and the bit about legacy tanks is yeah as explained, legacy servers(1.0 character servers) are queued in the same queue as normal servers so you get legacy tanks in there. Now some of them are good, but most of them are awful as fuck. It is a completely different game but a lot didn't bother looking up anything, so they body pull shit, use the wrong skills, can't aoe threat for shit etc. If they don't have a relic weapon, chances are legacy players(in general not just tanks) are going to be awful.
Last edited by Pyros; 08-28-2013 at 08:26 AM.
You can buy a stat reset from your grand company for 10k seals.
I posted in the other thread but I'm going to post it here too.
As far as Fates go, if you're late to a fate and you can't get in enough damage because everything dies in 1 second or less - try spamming heals on random people. They can even be at full HP but I heal anyone low just incase. You can get full gold for something you showed up to that is half over.
Any other WHM having MP problems? I was always fine until the Titan fight, and omfg I barely had enough to get through the fight, even using 2 shirty hi ethers.
How does healing verses dps work on fates? Is one or the other particularly more reward-efficient?
Side note, the lvl 50 Scholar spell is awesome. It's an instant off the GCD heal, 20% health(so big heals on warriors). Downside is it consumes an aethercharge, which isn't a big issue other than you can't spam it(you get 3 charges per minute when using Aetherflow) and that indirectly translates into a ~200mp cost, potentially 250(since you don't energy drain with it). Cooldown is only 1sec too so you could spam it multiple times in a row, or just weave it between normal heals.
Really liking Scholar - got to 35 and unlocked Succor and it made the Titan fight a breeze mitigating all the AE damage.
I'd rather play summoner but 5-10 min group queues vs 30 min-1 hour it's a no brainer.
Heal in this game is a joke compared to others. Boring really, even during "hard" things. I would say the only ounce of difficulty is anticipating the damage your targets are going to take, as this game with it's fuckawful GCD and animation wait are unforgiving.
to the guy having MP issues as a WHM, use Cure 1 + Regen, only cast Cure II if you have a proc, if you do get a proc wait for the longest possible moment to use it so you get the most benefit. If you cast Cure II with <3 seconds on the buff, the buff will fade and spell will consume MP. Forget what level Titan is, but if you use your 60s 100% healing CD, that + regen will easily keep the tank up to allow you to uhh stand still and regen because this game learned nothing from its predecessors.
Last edited by Sutekh; 08-29-2013 at 11:14 AM.
I wish it were easier to tell debuffs from buffs. It's kind of retarded they're just all right next to each other and same color as some other skills as well. I know that it has a little arrowhead pointing down but they still blend in quite well when you're paying attention to healing.
Honestly, dispelling seems kinda worthless because the GCD is shared with cure and it would just be easier to heal through it as to avoid spike damage getting your tank close to dead.
Dispelling is definitely not worthless, you just have to be selective about what you remove. Paralyze must be removed immediately. Many poisons are better to remove than heal through. I tend to remove vulnerability/def down debuffs from the tank too, because warriors take enough damage as it is.
Well, I'm only 30 atm before I started ACN to build WHM and at 30 there's not much need for it. I guess I should have stated at my level. I'm sure it will actually be needed eventually.
Yeah, it doesn't become needed until Brayflox's Longstop. Which sucks when you're a scholar because you don't get Leeches until 40. Doesn't matter that much though, they nerfed both the paralyze and the poison in there bigtime since beta 3.
Dispelling is mostly useful for paralyze, and sometimes encounter specific there's dots and shit and it's less time intensive to dispel than to heal through it, especially with movement required. Also one boss in wanderer palace does Disease(-50% healing) so obviously you dispel that.
Once you get to higher levels with Scholar is when healing really becomes nice, early levels is kinda rough. Shit like Rouse for example makes your life a fuckton easier, my pet can generally keep the tank up on most bosses with Rouse on, and since it lasts 20secs I can rez people while it does that. I also just finished 26 THM so now I can instarez or insta summon a new pet, both of which are fairly powerful(insta rez more so, 1min cd too).
Glad I made a Scholar though, it's very fun to play and I'm not really seeing anything WHMs can do that I wish I could.
my CONJ is about 30. should i take it all the way to 50 or is there a good time to go white mage between 30 and 50
If you plan on healing, at all, you should go whm instantly.
Might be worth it to level as a CNJ when solo, but there's no reason not to unlock WHM stuff anyway, it's not a permanent change, it's just an item you equip that gives you WHM spells and removes your cross class possibilities. For soloing, I guess stuff like Raging Strikes might be useful, slightly.
If you have the subjobs already leveled from beta it would be a good idea to level as CNJ, since you can retain the damage increases from Archer, Marauder, etc. But if you haven't done that then there's literally no benefit.
The instant brez is just absolutely broken.
Instant pet/rez is nice when it works, but it drives me nuts when the macro doesn't fire the second spell and then for some reason it wastes the Swiftcast if you press the button a second time. I assume everyone is using:
yes?Code:/ac Swiftcast <me> /wait 1 /ac Summon <me>
I just use both spells. I even click them because fuck that noise I don't have enough keybindings. They're not stuff I care about hotkeying anyway. I did notice macros were shitty when I was using Surecast with pet just because, I assumed they'd chain perfectly but it's definitely not the case that's why I didn't bother macroing instant cast.
And yeah instant rez is VERY good. With that said, I can get a rez off on a ton of fights, because if I pop Rouse my pet can keep the tank up on its own and I can go grab a beer or something. Instant resummon is as useful to be honest, because when the pet dies it starts getting dicy and resummoning it is when it gets hard since well, she's not there healing while I cast a 6secs spell and I don't have HoTs or shit like that. Both are great regardless and after doing a few runs with it, I really love it and am glad I spent a few hours leveling THM to 26.
On that note, the +50% bonus you get? Applies to FATE rewards. I was getting 20-30mins levels just doing FATEs in east and south shroud, and doing xp chains in between cause there's quite a few lulls. Also was doing it with my PS3 pad since THM is herpderp, just target one mob(any mob, doesn't matter), use Thunder(optional), use Fire until it dies, use Transfix to regen after. Sometimes need to use Blizzard when fighting under lvled. So basically it's 4 buttons, plus one for Cure, perfect for gamepad shit, and who cares about targetting in FATEs, just Blizzard 2 spam somewhere and get gold medals.
it looks like ill miss out on some important spells if i go white mage right away (with only CONJ lvl 30) such as cure III, stoneskin and some others. seems you should at least level CONJ to 32 for free cure or 34 for stone skin. the free cure sounds kinda game changing but maybe im over thinking it.
oh shit wtf nice.
so does white mage start out at lvl 30 or 1?
Finally got my magical ~unicorn~ and white mage. What are you guys doing for stats? I heard piety is kind of worthless because it doesn't change regen rate. Should I just crank mind?
So, what am I doing wrong with targeting? I set buttons to switch between "set targeting mode to pc only" assuming I could use that to tab target heal in fates. Every time I press it it says, "target cycling is off, turn it on in filters", but my target cycling there is enabled, so I don't know whats up. Is there a better way, because only option I see is to target nearest PC and that doesn't help much.
You can rebind tab to do the target cycling buttons on your gamepad, but it sounds like you're trying to force gamepad functionality on a keyboard/mouse, and that's like the biggest advantage that mouse/keyboard has over a gamepad in the first place (mouseover healing).
I leveled as scholar even though I had SMN unlocked, it really wasn't faster. SMN definitely does more damage, so you can kill that one mob faster, but as a scholar I was just pulling whatever the fuck, dotting everything and running around with mobs beating on me until they died 15secs later, while my fairy was healing me.
Damage wise, it's very close to ACN(but I didn't have cross class shit like Raging Strikes, still that's a long cd) because Cleric Stance+superior stat gain on jobs mean you'll do noticeably more damage with your spells so even without carbuncle it's fine. The trick to leveling as scholar is abusing the fact that you never have to heal even if you're pulling 3mobs at the same time, so maximize dot duration and reduce downtime by moving to next mobs before the previous ones are dead(within leash range limit obviously). If you don't have 2mobs beating on you at any point, you're doing it wrong.
Also FATEs tend to be faster leveling anyway and all 3 versions of the Arcanist suck at them equally and your best bet is single target tagging shit with an instant cast like bio or aero and VERY LATE Miasma II. If you group for them, doesn't matter what class you are.
Always, always, always do FATEs in a 8 man group even if it means shouting for one with a bunch of randoms. You only need to pick up 6 things for the collect ones, you can hit a boss with 2 DoTs and a Ruin II and still get gold, only tag maybe 4-5 things in a swarm or escort and still get gold, it's often impossible to get above silver on a 30 minute boss without a group, etc.
Yeah that's why I said doesn't matter what class you are. In groups I ran a few tests and I could get gold for casting a single aoe heal then going afk. That's why I don't think it's worth getting the wrong stats so you can level VERY slightly faster when soloing, the respec is pretty expensive too.
Also on my comment earlier, Piety might be as good as mind not sure, but I should say, might be as bad. Both stats don't really do much. I believe you could have 30int and not care, but at the same time the 30int won't have much impact on your damage either. Most of the stats seem fairly shitty vs weapon damage.
Has anyone done testing if Book damage or MND is what affects Fairy heals?
Yeah both, tested. Didn't test summoner shit but assume it's the same with int.
Pet's health scales with vit.
I really don't think you can go wrong with bonus points as an arcanist. MND gives you like 5% stronger heals as a scholar (and helps with scholar soloing also, but does basically nothing for summoner). INT will increase your DPS by 5% as a Summoner (but is mostly useless as a scholar). Piety will give you an extra 180mp pool, and 36 extra MP every minute from aetherflow (which could easily be a 5% increase on a longer fight). Vitality gives you 240hp (480 hp to your tank pet) which is a lot of extra health.
None of those bonuses are make or break, and I think you can make an argument for each.
edit: not sure on numbers, someone said 6mp per point of piety in chat yetserday, but I'm also reading 8mp per point online, which would make it the same as vitality, and would grant 48mp a minute extra.
edit 2: Just tested it... regular pets gain 9 hp per point of vitality, tank types gain 18hp per point of vitality. So putting points into vitality gives 270/540 pet hp in addition to 240 self. 1 piety gives 5mp... at least those are the values at 32, and I have no reason to believe they'd change.
Hmm respec'ing to all VIT sounds like a good idea.
Does anyone know where you get Madman's Whispering Rod for our epic? Im confused on whats needed.
Originally Posted by mkopec View Post
You told us about your personal life. Lets see, loser which plays internet games 15 hours a day and tokes bong hits, check. wife which does the same? Check. One thing is missing is some meth and the circle of life would be complete.
Here's my thoughts from a White mage that is on turn 3 of the current end game.
Things I would like to see changed
1) If melee can see agro bars, then so should healers. You shouldnt have to dot something just to have a peak at it.
The current game closes you out of the agro bar on the raid frame if you are healing anyone.
2) Let us see all the buffs on the raid frame please. They lock it at 4, so you acutelly have to look at the targets life bar to see what he truly has.
3) HOTS cause way to much agro, the very simple hot we have can cause more agro on a mob then a complete heal.
4) If the game wants us to play the agro game with healing then they should separate our self mana regen spell with the Deagro spell.
Those should not be on the same skill
Once you have Relic+1 and some iliv 90 gear you will be doing massive single target heals. Cure 2 can almost fully heal a Top end tank when it crits.
Problem being we do so much healing that its always a game of did that agro the boss, or not.
Regens pretty easy to deal with cause you know its broke as fuck. Medica 2 almost fully fills the agro bar from a tank.
Its really the randomness of the giant heals through crits were you have to say, Should I waist my 2 min CD now, and not have it when I really need it cause I almost completely healed the main tank.
This can all be solved by letting us see the agro meter at all times. Even with that I shouldn't have to waiste my mana regen CD, to use my de agro.
Last edited by Column; 09-12-2013 at 02:38 AM.
You can see aggro estimation in the encounter list window, the icon to the left of the monster name is colored based on your threat level, it's like 0-40% green, 40-60% yellow, 60-80% red or whatever I don't remember the exact way it looks. But yeah would like to see threat on ToT mobs on top of direct targets.
2nd part I think will come when they open UI API for mods and shit. At the very least they should make it so you can filter shit, or simply have 2 bars, one for debuffs and one for buffs(but still need to see more than 4 buffs).
So youre saying in the mob list if I have 60-100% agro It will be a red dot on that raid frame?
That would make my life a hell of allot easier. Right now I just send out a random instant cast Aero so I can get a peak of where my agro is at.
Last edited by Column; 09-12-2013 at 03:36 AM.
Yea, it goes from Greed to Yellow, to Orange to Red. If you're red/green colorblind, each of the aggro states also has a unique shape. Healing a person will automatically add every enemy that is engaged by that person onto your enemy frame, so it's much easier as a healer to see the aggro for every mob... meanwhile dps really only need to pay attention to the aggro of the monsters they are attacking at any given time. Usually I'll see adds as a healer before the tank will.
TIL Shroud of Saints has a refresh effect.
Shroud of Saints is currently two skills in one.
It is a De agro, that immediately puts you at 0% agro on a mob, and a mana regen.
Those should be on diffrent CDs imho
Just because I'm curious -- how many of you guys have healed the Hydra relic fight, and have you ever used only one tank? Our Hydra group yesterday grabbed a pug WHM and he was bitching me out for soaking damage as a second tank. He seemed unaware that people do this.
Well, if you were eating breaths or something that's obviously bad, but the fight is "intended" to be done with a second tank soaking as you described, though it's doable straight up with one tank as well, since the special only does 3k and change.
That said you can exploit it and solo tank it trivially by circle strafing around the boss endlessly, his triumvirate will never actually hit you if you time it right. Monks love it when tanks do this, I hear!
PS: They do not love this. Nor do other melee. Jerks.
Nah, I wasn't eating breaths. That would be silly.
I'll keep that strat in mind to endear myself to the monks, though, np.
The mana regen on the skill is minimal, it's nothing like what scholars get. To have a deagro and a mana regen tied into the same macro is dumb. Especially since the deagro is the far better skill.
Currently there is no thought to it anyway. You start a boss fight healing into you reach the yellow status then deagro. At that point you are behind everyone in the 8 man.
Then it's just a matter of refreshing it everytime the cd is up. It should technichally always put you behind everyone because the tank is always building up more threat.
When you get really good gear as a white mage, you can acuttely catch up to a tank despite the deagro. Thats why you will see groups in coils using healer rotations
They just need to fix threat on white mage healing. There is no point to the current system they have.
I find it really funny the latest Titan exploit revovled around a white mages threat.
Last edited by Column; 09-14-2013 at 01:08 AM.
Pro-tip Titan HM: Lotion and Hydration.
Do not have dry skin, itchiness that distracts your hand or you will probably die.
I'm not arguing that WHM threat isn't harsh, but you're trying to tell me that the mana regen component of this spell is so minimal so as to be useless? Well, fine: Pretend it doesn't exist, then. You now have an arguably ineffective aggro reducer that you cast at less cost than you'd normally cast it for, given the mana regen component, which you have deemed minimally effective anyway. But, you're still going to spam it every time it's up, because as useless as it is, it keeps you alive.
I swear, some people will bitch about anything given the opportunity.
Just because one of the elements of the macro far outweighs the other does not make the inferior one useless.
I'm arguing those two skills should not be on the same macro. They make no sense to be on the same macro.
The fact that you say splitting those two abilities would make it un balanced just boggles the mind.
But let me give you the healers for dummies so your small brain can process it.
The deagro takes no thought process at all.
You start a boss fight till you hit yellow, then deagro.
This puts you behind the tank/dps which are constantly raising threat.
Then you refresh deagro every time it comes up which will put you behind everyone the entire fight.
Obviously if your tank sucks you can catch up, or if you heal like an asshat with level 90 gear you can catch up(i.e constantly casting medica 2, or not letting the other healer rotate with you).
That has nothing to do with the deagro button, that is just because you are a bad player...
Good lord, its like they made this thread about you. Healing shitty geared warriors, and people who stand in fire.
Last edited by Column; 09-16-2013 at 06:33 AM.
Putting two unrelated skills together is a great way of making sure that you think twice before you spam that key. Makes you use your brain. The fact that WHM aggro is buggered detracts from this because you're forced to rely on the aggro reducer as you get better gear. If your aggro isn't pushing the limits, though, don't you think you'd want to be able to get that mana back in case of an emergency instead? Maybe heal a bit more conservatively, so that your aggro doesn't go through the roof? Hell, I don't even know if that's possible in this game, given the number of people that stand in the fire. And no, I'm not one of them, generally speaking.
Also, flinging unrelated insults at me because I don't agree with you? Good times. We're done here.
P.S. I love the part where you assume I know nothing about healing. Good on you, sport.
Last edited by Alkorin; 09-16-2013 at 01:14 PM.
The mana regen isn't strong enough that you'd want to keep it. It's basically a pop as soon as possible so you can pop it again sooner and maximize the amount of times it's up within a given fight type ability, it's a slow over time regen. Shit SUCKS. Tying it to aggro reduction is pretty dumb too but doesn't really matter that much, basically you just have to play like you're not gonna get much mana back from it even if it didn't have the aggro reduction. Spend some mana, pop it whenever it's not wasted, aggro won't be wasted either, unless there's specific adds you want to keep it for. It's a no brainer skill, and a shitty one at that. Everytime I play my WHM I wish I was playing my SCH. Well that is, other than healing aoe damage. Mana management on SCH is a ton more interesting though, basically WHM get the equivalent of Aetherflow, but without the charge component to use on other spells and the choice that comes from it(do I use utility spells or do I use Energy Drain for more mana).
Ugh. Is it at least off GCD?
I can't say I've ever had much of a problem with aggro as a WHM. I've only ever pulled aggro off my tank twice (and they were kind of shitty tanks). I find if your group is any good and they're using proper CC, then the amount of healing needed shouldn't pull much threat, especially if you can keep from using Regen, which is apparently very threatening.
The thread you are commenting on is old as balls. The discussion was on raid healing anyway, not group healing...
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