X games are fun. Strangely, I like to play them while playing eve. That said, when they're new they're typically buggy turds. Hoping all the delays were to make this relatively stable, but dont consider my breath held.
I have been following this game for a couple years, they finally put out a release date, Nov. 15th! The new videos they released look downright amazing. X is a empire building space sim, I've poured hundreds of hours into the X3 games and Rebirth looks massively superior in every way. Really can't wait.
X games are fun. Strangely, I like to play them while playing eve. That said, when they're new they're typically buggy turds. Hoping all the delays were to make this relatively stable, but dont consider my breath held.
This has been a pretty awesome year for sandbox games.
A definite pre-order for me, even though i'm still skeptical about the one, upgradeable ship deal. But who knows if that's going to be the case forever, the X games have a very robust modding community.
Yes, that is going to be one of the biggest changes in the game. You can't switch over to another ship whenever you like, instead you have your "mothership" and you can upgrade and expand it over the course of the game. I think you're still able to own additional ships, but can't pilot them directly.
However, in one of the videos they show the player taking control of one of his drones, so i hope the underlying mechanics that will allow you to switch ships are there. And who knows, maybe it's going to be alot of fun either way.
I actually like what they did with the "1 ship" approach, it is honestly what I would have done if I were in their position. If I might indulge a bit I will explain what I think their reasoning was.
Roughly speaking, in X3 (Reunion, TC, and AP), there were 3 general classes of ships; fighters, corvettes, and capitals. The problem was that even though these types of ships should serve incredibly different roles, due to either design or tech limitations, even the smallest fighter and the largest capital were basically the same. The only thing that really changed were models and stats (or stats on the equipment). What they did in rebirth was really separate these out as unique entities much better suited for their specific purpose.
Capitals are no longer pilot-able because now they are true capitals, huge lumbering behemoths that are very customizable and bristling with surface elements. The problem with capitals from X3 is that they were too much like normal ships due to the constraints placed upon them to keep them at least semi-usable as a player ship. By removing this Egosoft was able to take capitals in a new and much more distinct direction, one that is much, much better and fills a previously unoccupied place in the universe (something between a station and a player ship).
Fighters were changed for essentially the same reason only on the other end of the spectrum. They became drones which are small, unmanned, specialized, and semi-disposable. That is kind of how fighters are in X3 which is why players don't usually tool around in them for the whole game. BUT, piloting fighters is actually quite fun, so player's retain the ability to personally control one via VR, which has the added bonus of providing far more tactical flexibility. Player's are now able to "spend" fighters (they personally fly) to accomplish goals instead of the binary choice of a loading screen.
Ultimately they kept the "Corvette" type in the realm of player ship. This makes sense as players usually selected a corvette as their player ship anyway as they are a nice balance of speed, power, and defense. Somewhat unfortunately you only get one for X:R but it comes with a lot more options. I always ended up flying the same ship for most of the game anyway so I'd much rather have an awesome customizable ship.
I actually really hated flying most ships. People talk about how awesome being able to fly every ship was but honestly out of hundreds of ships you really only flew a handful anyway, usually whatever was "best" at a particular attribute. For example, there are many scout ships, but most people just used a Kestrel because it was the fastest. For me keeping track of and maintaining my handful of "player" ships (the main one and then the handful I used to perform specific tasks) was a giant pain and I am glad to see it go.
Hopefully, in the future, I wouldn't mind a small selection of really awesome, really customizable player ships instead of JUST one, but in this case more isn't better; better is better.
Last edited by Denaut; 08-10-2013 at 06:16 PM.
I want a goddamned game (MMO, Sandbox, Single player, what ever) where I get to fly a frigate that looks like this:
Note the distinct con tower. Without that, ships just don't have personality for me. One reason why I never got into Eve, all the ships pretty much look like flying turds. Fuck asymmetrical random ship designs. I just can't understand how people can like that sort of design.
I mean look at this thing
Looks like what I left in the toilet yesterday.
what? Sure eve has its terrible ships. That said, theres some awesome ships in eve too. Phantasm, SOCT battlecruiser, hyperion, Hel.
You use homeworld as an example for what a ship should look like, and I'll admit the taidan empire has some mighty sexy ships. But lets not forget how fucking ugly the kushani ships were. Eve ships also have plenty of love and detail in them to make them distinct. The fighters even have a little man inside them flying it. But what I really fail to grasp is how this argument has anything to do with x-rebirth. My personal beef is even if they are limiting what ships you can fly to make capitals more meaningful, why does that stop you from switching ships? I could live with flying just the smaller to medium sized ships, but not being able to fly anything but one ship really kinda hurts the immersion. I really hope a modder fixes it (Im sure itll be #1 on the to do list.)
startedplaying X3:Albion last night. Not sure about it yet. I felt pretty inconsequential in the only big fight I was in so I tried making money in the stock market. 12mill later I wanted to set up some sector/universal traders. So I fly to PTNI HQ and go to buy a transport ship so I can give it the Mk3 Trading module and I can't because I don't have the faction with them. Fuck.
The game is so slow, so tedious, so unintuitive and I'm not sure where the payoff is. I guess like any sandbox game I have to decide what I want to do and then figure out how to get there. If I had to pick I'd want to amass a huge armada and then go conquer sectors ala Mount and Blade.. But I don't even know if I can do that in this game?
You can do that, absolutely. If you want to, you can field a bunch of capitals, some carriers for example with a couple of dozen M3s on board, all of which you can outfit/fly yourself if you want to. There really is no limit, you can recreate every single factory, combine them to massive complexes and produce ships, missiles or tradegoods.
The game's extremley hard to get into though, you need some time and even effort maybe to get a grasp on it. Really, it's pretty much Dwarf Fortress in space, in terms of accessibility. And about you feeling inconsequential, that is no surprise. Albion pits some of the biggest factions against each other in a full scale war, there are a lot more ships engaged in combat at all times then in the previous games.
Honestly, i would wait for Rebirth at this point, if you haven't played the X games before. It seems they're really trying to make it easier to get into it, the UI alone is a big turn-off for most people in the current games.
In regards to the single ship thing, i'm willing to give Egosoft the benefit of the doubt. These guys seem pretty passionate about what they're doing and they know it's a niche product, i don't think they would risk to alienate all their longterm fans with something that ultimately feels unsatisfying.
Can you finally land on planets?
I had to watch a bunch of youtube tutorials before I started playing X3 a few years ago (http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=297924). Once I watched those, I had a pretty decent grasp on the game and was then able to mod it a ton (http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=216690). This was for the Terran Conflict iteration of the game. Once I had some good mods and had learned the game (which is a decently steep curve, I'll admit), it was a ton of fun.
I will definitely be playing this new one.
You are right the game is tedious. I usually try to make a huge sector conquering fleet too. You need two things really, a fuckload of money and the right production capabilities to outfit all of your ships. The problem I always run into is, the best way to make money in X is setup a bunch of universe traders and let them go at it, but to make it faster you run the game at 10x speed and go afk, and if that is what I am going to do then why not just cheat and give myself a ton of money. So I usually end up cheating and just buying the ships and that gets old fast, but the alternative seems like cheating anyway so I dunno. I'm hoping they take the 10x speed mechanic out of the game or make it not necessary to actually make money while playing the game.
I've logged a few dozen hours in Reunion and TC. I always start by trading because it reminds me of Elite. I do that until I'm outfitted with some of the critical systems (trading MK III and such). Then I capture pirate ships. That part is quite fun and it takes some getting used to (don't want to say skill since it's mostly about controlling your damage). Once I have 4-5 wingmen I start to hunt down the one ship I want to pilot, cap it, and that's usually where I get bored. The whole station building is not fun to me. Way too grindy.
Also I need to be able to land on freakin planets. Instead of new gfx engines or other gimmicks I wish they would work on making the universe truly seamless.
So I have never played x. Got all 3 of the X3's on steam sale. Problem is sounds like each one would be a huge time sink? (I played countless hours on Escape Velocity and similiar old sandbox space games) I don't have the most time anymore.
Due to their age, should I perhaps only play the newest x3, or would it be worthwhile to try and find the time to go through all 3 of them?
I'd play the most recent one, Albion Prelude or whatever.
Yeah they're huge timesinks. It's pretty difficult to get into and without looking up shit online you'll spend forever experimenting with what works and what doesn't.
I stopped playing the game when I realized you couldn't build a super expensive badass fighter and fight a huge war in it. The entire game is just trying to make money by doing boring shit.
I wouldnt suggest to start with Albion Prelude, since it would be pretty tough to get things straight with the ongoing war in that part.
Either start form the very beginning X (when you bought the Superbox) and get through that,then to X2 for the Story part, or start with x3 reunion and play the main plot. which is hard but doable with a pimped out m4 starter ship, iirc. Then your free to enjoy Terran Conflict Albion Prelude for an low story/open end game.
What mods would you guys recommend? I have that list that was posted earlier saved, but it has a obscene amount of mods listed heh. I feel like playing a sandbox space sim, and this sounds like a lot of fun if I can be patient with it.
Launched Reunion late one night. Holy no tutorial/user friendly interface batman. This morning fired up albion prelude. I'm working through it fairly decently though still not quite as intuitive as I'd like. (Much better using a gamepad instead?)
Very confusing when it initially lead you through a few warpgates. Blow up a few enemies. And left with a fight/accept missions but at the time no mission givers nor any indication of where to go. (Finally from zoning around figured out next step was triggered by enough kills to rank up and started seeing quest givers?)
Find stats kinda a nightmare to navigate and seems like a very daunting task to go from a starting 30k to the >1million for what I imagine is first upgrade before the starting uber fighter. (Maybe awards will ramp up quickly but right now missions are for like 5k.)
Might go middle of the 3 and try terran conflict see if I like that more.
Big combat question, is there no easier way to target incoming missiles for you to use your own light missile on or otherwise blast yourself? Best I've had is blindly firing at them if I see them fired, or maybe get lucky cycling through enemy targets and hopefully not overshooting. (Early would warp into areas with like 4-5 fighters and a vette or destroyer. Many light missiles that did no damage but then thered be one of those silkworm? or whatever big missiles mixed in I wouldnt notice and 1 shot me.)
I suggest to take a look at the key binding settings (there gotta be a map online), i cant remember for sure but i think the most important shortcuts were "m" and "n" for navigation and i think "," and enter for general settings.
You can change target to them and blow them up with your blaster, since that tends to be tedious and also lets your opponent fire even more missiles, people generally upgrade to a ship with turrets, to take care of that, or just let the small missiles take care of that.
Also read up on the different missile types since there are just so many types.
New Trading and Mining Video
Wow, that looks awesome.
Not sure why they have the "walk to NPCs to trade" thing going on. Do NPCs serve another purpose? What's the point other than slowing down the pace?
The X games seem like they are centered around slowing the pace of the player between the player clicking "Give me credits" buttons.
This is out November 15th, 2013, btw. Up for pre-order on Steam for $49.99.
I'll be waiting to see some initial reviews before purchasing, personally.
Either way, I'm pumped as fuck.
Never even heard of this. Looks awesome as hell. I'll be picking it up.
For anyone that is holding back, I am going to try and skip out of work early on Friday to play. I'll post my first impressions after a few hours of playing, especially whether it is a bug-ridden mess or not. That way you can enjoy a weekend of playing if you like
Day 1 purchase for me. The game is going to be a buggy mess and will be playable in 6months to 12months time. I'm such a sucker.
Amazing trailer there.
I just decided to say fuck it and bought it for release. Considering how often I complain there aren't enough sandbox/space sims out there, best man up and put my money where my mouth is. Bugs or not, I'm going to dive in tonight.
I'm pre-loading it now. I'll post my thoughts after cracking out with it for a few hours.
fawk 3 hours
Amazing game, with astonishing depth.
Can't be said enough though that past games in the serious have had a massive learning curve and haven't been easy to get into. They said they would address that to a degree with this release but I guess we'll see. Also not sure if anyone has mentioned that its got a great modding community ?
Official forums here for people new to the series :
egosoft.com :: Index
Playing it, did anyone get to invert the mouse? steam forums are a mess and cant get anyone to give me feedback on invert, doesnt work for me
I've played about 4 hours so far. The HUD GUI could use a bit of work but other than that the only bug I hit was my missiles switching a little weird. A restart fixed it.
The flow and visuals in space are astonishing, in what little time I've played I am extremely happy with what they've done. If you liked the other X games or like space sims then I think it is worth picking up. I'll report more at the end of the weekend when I've clocked up double digits.
I tried checking the official forums to see any bug reports, but it is down probably due to traffic.
Performance is good for me, but I have a newer computer (i54750 and a GTX760).
I didn't think I could pre order a worse game than Rome 2 but I've gone and done it! This is pure shit, not surprised to see Denaut shilling it like he did Rome 2. He loves broken software or something
Had my first crash to desktop just now. I think it was a memory leak as the game started hitching a little and then when I jumped in a highway it crashed as I was coming up on the next area.
I tested the inverting with the gamepad and it worked, I don't know abut the mouse I am playing on my TV right now.
Also something else I encountered. I though the first trade mission bugged out, so I ran off to do other missions. It randomly completed as I was doing something else, so I think it just takes a while. The ship shows up in the sector and just parks there, and its instructions say it is following you. What I think is going on is that its drones are just taking a while to ferry the energy cells back and forth and the freighter sits there while it happens. The property menu really should give you more information about what is going on.
Bayr, you are an angry unpleasant person whom I assume is never happy with anything. I don't think you even understand the definition of the word shill. At least call me a fanboy or something that makes sense.
Hearing a looot of bad things about rebirth's stability. I'm apprehensively excited about it but yeah, this is looking like a February game for me.
There will still be a learning curve, but if you check their videos and look at their material you'll see you can get into the game much quicker with this iteration.
It's a bummer it's a single player game, but I'll still sink a few hundred hours into it easily.
I've been using an xbox controller. I don't console game so I found it very unwieldy at first but stuck with it because the menus work very well. I've gotten pretty used to it at this point although not entirely yet. Anyone that plays FPSs on a console should be fine once they learn the menus.
Hasn't crashed at all for me, been running smooth.
8gb memory, gtx500 series card here
Quick early impressions:
Game is in a much better state than expected. About 30 minutes in, and i havent had any game breaking bugs or crashes. It runs fairly smooth at decent frame rate with settings pumped high as fuck. Id dare say it runs smoother than the previous game, while looking miles better. To continue on the path of good news. I really like their new movement system. These new 'gates' are nothing like the old game. You hop into a space lane and it you actually see your ship moving down the highway, along with other ships ala warp drive in star trek or something. Its really cool seeing the scenery fly by, since its quite awesome, and I like how you can jump off or on these space lanes early. Its a clear step up in cool factor from previous games. Its quite obvious that they're going for a more open world mass-effect type feel, and the feel they're going for is Realllly cool for any space nerd. I like their direction they came from with this game of bridging between that sort of accessibility, but if I find they dumbed it down later on when I can start the industrial side of the game, I'll be a bit depressed.
The bad. Mostly just quibbles so far. No borderless window, your mouse can go outside of screen if its full screen, and clicking outside will minimize it. Minor problems which don't prevent me from enjoying the game, but could definitely be fixed. The menus definitely have a bit of console cancer, but its not as bad as many games. Haven't heard of a release on next gen, but with the way things feel, it has to be coming down the pipe.
Overall, its actually quite good in its current state for me. We'll see if I run into any crashes/memory leak issues.
Last edited by Furry; 11-15-2013 at 08:34 PM.
The thing that's bothering me the most is how unoptimized the game seems for flightsticks. The targeting system is really unnatural too.
Just checked out the forums and some random first impressions.
Really? Whining about the voice acting and character models?
This is why we can't have nice things...
In their defense, the character models do kinda blow. I'd expect the modding community to be on that.
Does it affect the space opera/sandboxness? Nah. Course not.
Maybe I just understand budgeting and what is important in a space sim sandbox, and they have a ridiculously low priority. I mean, I couldn't give a fuck. If I cared about those kinds of things I would spend my money on multi-million dollar AAA games that maybe have 10 hours of gameplay. I just don't understand what people expect when they buy a game like this. Also do they not watch videos? The models were clearly awful in the footage on youtube as well.
There are plenty of legit gripes that affect core gameplay that this kind of stuff is completely irrelevant.
So far so good overall, I've barely stopped playing since last night. Fell asleep on the couch while playing really late, the sound of the controller hitting the floor woke me up
How's this game compare with say, Freelancer?
Just found a VERY severe issue.
The game can corrupt your last save file if it crashes.
Have multiple rotating save files or you could lose your progress. Luckily I had them just from habit.
I didn't play enough freelancer to compare to be honest.
The save game issue seems to have grown out of control for me. I am submitting everything to egosoft.
Felt burned on Rome II, so I haven't picked this up yet, even though I really want to. One of the things I read which greatly annoy me, is that the UI seems to be somewhat worse than the already terrible one in the previous games. Like double-clicking on checkboxes, seemingly random placement of UI elements, long delays after picking a conversation option, no real asset list and what they're doing right now; the whole setup to get a ship trading on its on is somehow even more confusing than in the old games?
I was really hoping they'd improve on the UI, is it as bad as it seems? No idea how much control the modders could get over elements like the UI and if there's any interest among them to change it.
Overall I found the UI to be better. There is an asset list. It's Menu 2-2.
I am using a controller though.
Decided I'm going to wait until I get an oculus rift to play this.
First X game I've tried, really pissed off I paid 40 for this steamer. Not a clue what to do, following story line and have to buy 8 marines, fair enough except I've got no cash and every single place I go I get swarmed by enemy ships, if I fight back I get even more attacking me. Can't figure out how to get the cash as trying missions is a right pain as I'm already being shot at constantly and the only ones I can find are escort types and the ship I'm chasing gets blown to bits as I'm too busy avoiding shit that's shooting at me, bleh. My so-called homing missiles don't seem to home in on enemy fighters, yet on one occasion they did and I've no idea what I did different, I was still hovering target reticule over the ships. I was looking forward to trying some mining, but the one ship I bought that can mine shit is now MIA since I retuned from Devrie, and that basically has 80% of my cash tied up in it with captain/defence officer etc.
Eitherway, you'll see little circles pop up for a few seconds on the horizon. Fly to those, pop it with a mining laser or something and pickup whatever it may leave behind. X series games have always been fairly unforgiving and new releases tend to be raw for egosoft.
To get to long range mode, hit enter, and you'll see the option for 'mode' I think under 1.
After playing this all day I am going to go ahead and say don't buy this until the major bugs, especially the trading AI, are fixed.
I'll make another post if/when they do.
I can't believe they wasted time on the station interior part of the game, it is awful.
This game is so fucking bad.
I play inverted mouse, doesnt work for me, so i still havent left spawn point yet. Just watching the video reviews though, most regretsies i probably had for a 50$ game
Saw this on the steam forums, seems like they released this far too early.
If you have problems with X Rebirth 1.12 (or above) please read this :: X Rebirth General Discussions
and here's a transcript if you dont want to click the link.
Looks like they are going to be patching the way you find/interact with npcs to make it easier as well as flesh out the trading so its not so fucked up. Releasing the game in this fashion really makes me wish I would have pirated it first.
I bet the anuses of the Elite and Star Citizen devs are clinching now. Three big iterations of space sim are being released in a short window and the first one out of the gate is a complete failure.
Its a game that'll be pretty good like 6 months down the line. Egosoft always release bug ridden messes and everyone bitches at them for a while. Thats the unfortunate part of being a tiny dev studio and really the only guys even trying to do big space sims anymore.
That 'Worth a buy?' video made me sad. I thought I'd just buy in two months time, get it cheaper then and it would have a bunch of patches out. But this just seems completely awful and probably beyond saving.
I'm definitely not happy with my purchase. It's probably the only thing I've ever bought on steam that I really regret, and I'm basically the target audience for X games.
Seriously, it's a space sandbox game that doesn't support flight sticks. What. The. Hell. Like, I was expecting bugs and shit. I'm ok with crashes to desktop. Hell, corrupt my save a few times too! Fuck it, I'm still learning the game and will no doubt restart a ton anyway. But basically not letting me dog fight with a flight stick due to turret mechanics? No cycle target keys? No target lock? What the hell?
A world/galaxy size <10% of X:Albion, no radar, no flight stick, this goofy station interaction system for trading and poor combat controls pretty much damn this game thoroughly.
put more time in this game. Reviews are pretty much spot on. The game impresses at first look. It looks good, runs well enough. The problems really start to show when you try to do stuff. Interacting with stations in general is hideous as fuck. I cant overstate enough just how fucking awful the station interaction is. It its quite literally painful. Most of the other parts of the game are workable or decent, but anything involving a station literally has aids. Its so awful, its almost like the devs sat around and asked each other: If the player wants to do something, whats the best way to tell the player fuck you.
These videos really dont do the issues justice. You have a game thats traditionally based around economy, exploring and trading and empire building. I'll give a pass on the combat being meh, it always has been in x-games. That said, they somehow managed to completely fuck up the trading and empire building. You flat out cant do it in this game. The exploring is okay, but due to how incredibly awful the afformentioned stuff is, just exactly what are you going to do with the space you explore. Trying to set up my own little empire on the fringe was always something I enjoyed. It aint happening here.
The game is a clusterfuck atm, and I don't think even modders are going to be able to save this one. Thats hard to imagine, cause theres plenty of x-modders which are hardcore as fuck.
The joystick support is really so bad (read: not there) that I'm actually considering opening a CS ticket for a refund.
I can't say I have any faith in the devs on this one. It seems like they don't understand their fan base at all. Declaring the game a success when your forums are in full on riot mode is how EA interfaces with its customers. Not a good look for an indy dev at all.
I was really looking forward to this game. The Worth a Buy video is spot on. This game is awful.
Not even Joystick support, holy space empire batman.
I think thats what happens if you decide to skip beta and send your alpha 0.1 build to the copy station.
Can someone please explain what it is with the station interaction that is bad?
Watch the video that was posted.
If that kind of interface doesn't piss you off, I don't want to play the kinds of games you'd think are good.
Ok, just watched it. Unbelievable. Why the hell do some devs think that spending time flying/walking around a station to find a merchant is better than a good buy/sell screen? The mind boggles.
So, I’ve now spent pretty much the entire weekend playing, a total of 32 hours according to steam. My conclusion, the core game under all the layers of bugs and frustrations is excellent, and it is well within Egosoft’s reach to fix the game.
Most of the bugs, especially some of the more serious ones have workarounds. I am not saying this is good, BUT if you really like and want to play the game, are willing to put in the effort, it is playable and enjoyable. First I’ll write up where I think they went wrong and then I’ll cover the most important workarounds I’ve learned from playing and reading the forums if there is someone out there that wants to give it a go like I did.
Where they screwed up huge was in a non-obvious but ridiculously important place...
It took me a while but I have reached a conclusion... the campaign design and structure is by far the largest flaw with the game. Although players themselves might not realize it, the bulk of their feelings of frustration can be attributed to it. That sad part is how completely unforced the error is. This may sound a bit strange strange, but bear with me while I explain.
I noticed the game screams what I call “coder design”, where the design isn’t done by a dedicated professional designer who thinks and tests from a player perspective. The results completely ruin the experience for the player in a way that has nothing to do with bugs or features. I assume everyone on the team is either a programmer or artist and that Bernd acts as lead designer. If so, this is a huge mistake that lead to tons of unforced errors in the campaign.
I’ll start with the first, but not the worst, mistake. For some reason, the first trading ship you are given is a large, slow, and cumbersome capital style freighter. Now, these ships are great, but what they excel at is large bulk purchases and sales. To make those kinds of trades you need lots of money… which you don’t have. They should have just given you a small, fast generic or energy trader you could zip around the area to make some money while you ran missions. This was a bad idea.
The second mistake they did what not have the campaign lead you to do “X-Style” things, like trading and running missions for a while before throwing the more advanced stuff at you. What I mean is you are given a big complex ship that is most useful with lots of money and infrastructure at your disposal. The campaign then proceeds to teach you how to use it even though you can’t really do much with it. I can only assume they really wanted to show off the new advanced features, but this is a bad idea, you really need to think like a new player or an X fan playing Rebirth for the first time.
A better second part of the campaign (after teaching you to trade with a small fast trader) would have been to have you run some missions for a little while. Whether that be by having you do some small trade runs or some station defense missions or whatever. Something simple for new players and familiar for old fans that let them get used to the new ways of doing things. The requirement could have been to earn a certain amount of credits or something equally semi-open ended.
The third and by far the worst mistake was to cleave the starting area in half and forcing half of the known galaxy to be your enemy. This ends up being catastrophic, compounding the earlier mistakes. And, not only does half of the game hate you, but they live and work right alongside the ones that don’t.
It might have been alright if the halves were segregated from one another but from this point on it is nearly impossible to do anything in the entire sector whether that be trading or just running missions. Your trader will die if you don’t babysit it, all the while being a very slow trader. With half of each zone red it also becomes very difficult to just run some missions for cash. There is no longer a safe place to just play the game and the “new” safe sector you are allowed access to is far too empty to make up for it.
This happens so early in the game the player never has a chance to get their feet wet. Players are lost, confused, and overwhelmed in a now very dangerous world. Even “old timers” don’t have a chance to settle into the new groove. You can’t really trade, you can’t really run missions... the game is made very difficult to play at a basic level extremely early on.
This emotional reaction is palpable just by reading player reactions. The bugs and UI issues, while a problem are being magnified by the existing and underpinning feelings of frustration and helplessness. The worst part is this problem can’t be worked around like the other ones.
Last edited by Denaut; 11-17-2013 at 02:32 PM.
Unfortunately the campaign has you running around like a ninny making what should be a relatively minor part of the game (and one that I like in doses) seem ridiculously important. They should just let you play the game for a while.
On to the workarounds.
I narrowed down my earlier save game issue to have something to do with stations. I don't know what exactly caused it or how, but I stopped saving while on stations and have not had the issues since. So my first bit of advice is to never save on a station, only while in your ship.
Ok, now these are bad but there are workarounds.
Firstly, if your ship bugs out through trading you can clear its trade orders by editing the save game file. It is a a pain in the ass but it works. Here are the instructions.
Trade ships seem to bug out because of 3 simple but incredibly annoying reasons.
1. The most common cause of the bug is by queuing a sell order for more wares than are currently on your ship. This means, for example, if you follow the energy trader campaign instructions and queue the 100 energy units sell order before your ship physically has the goods on board it will become bugged. I accidentally avoided this by watching the freighter take delivery before heading out to sell.
So, never execute a sell order before or for more wares than are physically on the ship. This will save you many headaches I promise.
2. If a ship has no cargo drones it won't complete a trade. This is most noticeable on the sell food mission because you are given a construction ship that is technically able to complete trade orders, but it doesn't have any drones on it. So it just flies to the station and sits there. If you like you can buy drones for it at a shipyard.
3. If a ship doesn't have enough cargo drones to make the delivery in one trip. I haven't tested this myself, saw it on a forum post. If you buy cargo drones for a cap ship just make sure you buy enough.
* If a ship runs out of Fuel Cells it can travel without them but it will take a VERY long time. It also doesn't seem very capable of finding any on its own. I top off my traders whenever they get down to about half. There is a station in Canterra in f-something that sells them. It is next to the station with the terran leader NPC guy on it.
* Buy a trade computer ASAP. Seriously, this thing is great, if gives you every trade on a station when you buzz it, very handy.
* Use an Xbox controller if you have one. Told 2 of my friends this already and they reported back it was a much better experience.
I'll post more tips if I run across any.
Last edited by Denaut; 11-17-2013 at 02:34 PM.
This still sounds like an enormous clusterfuck to be honest. Can't your ships trade on their own anymore, what has been happened to sector/universe traders? What about the trade interface you posted, I was under the impression you can't actually complete a trade from that screen alone; is it possible to skip the whole station interior aspect?
Also, and this is fairly important to me, is the universe as small as people make it sound? There used to be something like 100+ zones, filled with active "capital" stations, military hubs, the lawless areas full of pirates, mines and asteroids, dead-end sectors where there's nothing but hostile aliens; is this all gone? And if yes, where the hell do I build my own stations and industry, if that is even possible any longer.
God, I should just stop thinking about this game, I was REALLY looking forward to this and now it's such a mess.
Sounds they should have called this X: Abortion.
No sector/universe traders... BUT you can assign them to a station and the station will treat them as such essentially. Right now I am working on getting a station finalized so I can hopefully assign my Rahanas to it and not babysit it anymore. In order to get the parts for the station the ship needs to fly through some seriously hostile territory. The station management AI may be broken, I don't really know yet as I keep losing my freighter and having to reload
Well, it is a bit of a quantity/quality issue. The old X had a ton of sectors yes but with ridiculous amounts of pointless duplication and I honestlty only ever used like 5% of them. There is lots of highway in between space to explore, if you just follow them from endpoint to endpoint I can see how it might feel too small. Overall I prefer the structure and style of Rebirth's content even if it means less of it, because it is more interesting. That isn't to say I wouldn't like to see more sectors, because I very much would.Also, and this is fairly important to me, is the universe as small as people make it sound? There used to be something like 100+ zones, filled with active "capital" stations, military hubs, the lawless areas full of pirates, mines and asteroids, dead-end sectors where there's nothing but hostile aliens; is this all gone? And if yes, where the hell do I build my own stations and industry, if that is even possible any longer.
God, I should just stop thinking about this game, I was REALLY looking forward to this and now it's such a mess.
The game has potential, but after playing it I'd definitely recommend waiting until they release a pretty big patch to fix all the glaring issues.
The campaign itself is just awful. Really, I don't know if that's fixable. What were they thinking with this?
I don't regret buying it, as they will fix the core game and I'm a fan of their previous titles. I think a lot of the complaints in the video Bayr posted are valid. I'm not sure why Ego released the title with so many glaring issues, except they might have had no choice financially.
Last edited by Gecko; 11-17-2013 at 04:09 PM.
First mods start to appear....
X: Rebirth Nexus - X: Rebirth Nexus mods, skins and community
the "NESA"-mod seems really useful
and the official mod-forum (a little slow atm.): egosoft.com :: View Forum - X Rebirth - Scripts and Modding
Last edited by Tauro; 11-18-2013 at 05:19 PM.
If I made a mod for this it would automatically download and launch X3.
I guess I should post a more proper review in the hopes of keeping Rerolled users from wasting their money. Here goes.
Combat and Flight
Combat in X Rebirth is highly lacking, both compared to other games in the genre and the other games in the X series. Combat has so many problems I'm not actually sure where to start with this. I guess the first thing I should point out is that X Rebirth shipped without support for flight sticks. That's right, a flight sim with no flight stick support. Although if you fight with button mappings long enough you can sort of get sticks to work (I had to invert both the vertical axis and throttle as well as use my stick's software to bind a bunch of buttons to keystrokes/mouse buttons), the entire combat engine was build using a gamepad in mind. Your weapons are mounted on turrets which fire not straight ahead, but at the location of the mouse cursor. So if you want to use a flight stick for combat, you need to first move the cursor to the center of the targeting reticle. This is especially annoying as since there are no keyboard targeting commands, if you want to target another ship, you have to use your mouse. On top of that, somehow using flight sticks to fire seems to interfere with aim assist; I found it very difficult to hit anything while using stick, while using the mouse to target was much easier. So firstly, sorry, you can't use your flight stick to play this space flight sim game currently.
Moving on, your ship lacks even the most basic tools of the genre with which to do battle. Target next/previous, target next/previous hostile, and match speed of target commands simply do not exist. If another ship stays in your target reticle for too long, you lose your last target with no way of going back to it without manually finding it in space. This is rather difficult as your ship does not have a radar/tracking HUD. Although you get little markers in your view window for hostiles, you have no way of knowing how far off they are or where they are positioned in relation to your ship.
To make matters worse, your ship's combat systems are ridiculously elementary. The standard of having multiple cannon control groups and cannon customization is not present in X Rebirth. Instead, you may equip one of each of the four types of cannons and missiles, for a total of four each. Your only upgrade path is the mk2 versions of the same weapons. Generally in space sim games where you have to make real choices about your load out and energy management. X Rebirth takes all of this away. In combination with the complete lack of radar and targeting turns combat in to nothing more than an shallow, arcadey experience.
It's also terribly unbalanced. Many users have reporting taking down the most powerful capital ships in the game with your stock, un-upgraded newbie ship. If you can already destroy capital ships without upgrading, what's the point of upgrading?
Also, there is no autopilot. At all. Everything from docking to traveling to different systems requires a combination of clicking and manual steering as there are no keyboard commands for... well, anything. Speaking of traveling to different stations, there is a bizarre tail-gating mini game you play every time you get in a space highway. None of the ships in the mini game are actually ships in the universe despite the claims of the developer; they are disappear when they arrive in a system.
The cockpit, which was advertised as something amazingly awesome, doesn't really give you much useful information. Instead you get these 3-5 second cut scenes whenever you want to dock/depart, use the map, etc. It's remarkably slow and inefficient. Also, your co-pilot won't shut up, which is ironic as she's constantly telling the computer to shut up. I wish I could throw them both out the airlock.
Currently mining, missions, and most other early game money making strategies are a total waste of time compared to scanning. There are systems where--again, a totally un-upgraded ship--can make millions an hour (many times more than you would make for other activities) just scanning and looting space junk that respawns infinitely. Talk about borking the early game economy.
I can't speak for anything late game as I'll can't tolerate the game long enough to get there.
Not only is the game world much smaller than X3, but you are limited to where you can build. Unlike X3 where you can choose to set up your illegal bootlegging and space weed empire up more or less anywhere provided you have the firepower, you are limited to certain locations for station building. You also can't build a lot of things in the economy, unlike X3.
Trading is reported to be a buggy mess currently, though I should state clearly I didn't mess with it as I was too busy fighting with flight stick configs and failing to figure out how to mine. The removal of SETA for earlier games mean that all ships move in real time, which means you better like long AFKs if you're setting up a trade empire.
Although there might be some merit to letting people walk around on stations, they are horribly implemented in X Rebirth. Not only are NPCs modeled in a comically poor fashion, all the stations in the game are a cookie cutter 4-5 stations. There are also loot boxes all over the place that you are encouraged to steal from for no reason, with no consequence. I'm the captain of a space ship... why am I exploring air ducts for random loot? You are also forced to endure a tedious mini game with terribly voice acted NPCs for discounts. The whole station experience is superfluous and annoying.
All in all, this game does absolutely nothing better than it's predecessors. It is mechanically a less sound game than X3 in every way it could be. They even managed to make the UI worse and less intuitive, something that most vets of the X series believed to be impossible. If that isn't enough, it's still a buggy mess. I averaged about a crash to desktop per thirty minutes of play. When it's not crashing, it's horribly buggy and optimized.
Even if you are a diehard fan of the genre, X Rebirth should be avoided like the plague. Although previous X games have had rocky launches, they at least launched as really buggy good games. X Rebirth is a really buggy bad game at the core. It manages to suffer from one of the worst cases of console-itis I've ever seen, which is especially perplexing as it isn't currently announced for any consoles. I don't think even modders will be able to rescue it.
Bottom line: Do not buy.
I want to put in a note about the ships disappearing. What eventually made me throw my hands up in disgust and toss this game to the trash bin was the fact that all the ships in this game feel fake.
Theres tons of ships everywhere, but I cant fathom just exactly what they are doing. Theres these space traffic jams, tons of ships in these highways, but it all seems artificial compared to previous games. The ships in a way feel like the people of sim city, they are drones that are there as a visual addition, they don't actually serve a game purpose. Its a huge step back from previous versions of the game, where I'm sure not everything was simulated, but there certainly was stuff that was. Every ship you saw in place had a starting point, a destination. They all had cargo that would be missed or needed at their destinations. There was a life behind the economy that made it more real. It's really depressing to see a space sim game where I'm not sure that anything at all is simulated.
I dont know how denaut can say that the problems with this game are limited to the campaign. I have a bad case of fan-boyitis when it comes to space sim games and have played ALL of them, including every last X game in their buggy glory, and even I cant help but dump over just how bad this game is. Sadly, it looks like I'm gonna have to go back to albion prelude to get my fix.
A lot of what Alex said is accurate, but I don't think its unsalvageable. Combat suffers from balance issues and some weak AI along with a lack of depth. Tweaks and changes can be made, but the player ship is just too powerful at the moment and there is a lack of weapon varieties. This can almost all (besides the AI maybe) be changed with modding. The economy isn't really better or worse than its predecessors at the moment. Making millions in a hour or two of work is something you can do, easily, in X3. If not Nividium ore in the start of the game in TC, Downright broken in X3AP due to stock market. Right now the hotness is ship boarding in X:Rebirth for making money. It takes a stupid amount of money to build ships and fund station building operations, so collecting space junk isn't really the way to go.
The trading is probably one of the worst problems in terms of mechanics/bugginess in this game since it suffers from multiple bugs and some stupid implementation (that can be changed): Like canceling your ship trading queues, the fact that trading ships have to be in your squad, or the list of bugs that'll cause your ship to stop trading and just follow you.
I never used a flight stick with my x games, so I can't say much there. But station experience is tedious and can already be avoided totally by mods. The repeatable cut scenes, as well. From what I've hear, free play is a vastly better experience without having to deal with the troubles of the campaign.
As far as building stations go, I don't really care about placement. It was tedious in X3:TC and have no problems allowing stations to have a static locations. With the exception of a couple issues, its much more friendly than it was in the past.
Would I recommend a buy right now? Lord No, if not for the frustration of having to deal with the bugs. X3 has had 7 years of dev time after its initial release date to continually improve upon the problems it has/had (along with a dedicated mod community). I'd check back in a year.
Last edited by kaosu; 11-19-2013 at 06:58 AM.
Id make a strong argument based on my previous post that the economy is in a much worse state then previous games.Originally Posted by kaosu
I'd say other than the bugs/stability, the rest of the game is really no WORSE than X3 (except maybe the size), it suffers from many of the same problems X3 did but hopefully with the new engine in place they can be fixed. Plenty of things things are better like the highways, modifiable player ship, and no SETA.
I agree, the game needs about a year to finish. It has plenty of bugs and mostly just lacks content. I don't think they have any designers at all at the company, many of the problems are just a lack of basic balance and lack of easily added vertical content.
Last edited by Denaut; 11-19-2013 at 09:27 AM.
Last edited by kaosu; 11-19-2013 at 09:40 AM.
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