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Thread: Homeland Season 3

  1. #101
    Registered User Bondurant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrutulTM View Post
    the fact that she has been publicly thrown under the bus by her own agency and is totally nanners in the mental hospital would make her a prime candidate to take a run at for a foreign intelligence agency.
    "Hey, let's hire this ex-CIA bipolar and psychotic bitch, let's release her from that CIA-watched psych ward where everyone and their grandmother has eyes on her, let's hire her to run our secret terrorist organization !"

  2. #102
    Registered User spronk's Avatar
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    well its pretty obvious they are going for female Brodie v2.0 scenario, where Carrie gets into a tortureporn situation because obviously as soon as Nazir2.0 gets his info he will torture/kill Carrie, and Saul has to ride into the rescue. Of course somehow brodie will be around instead and save her, ugh just typing this shit out makes me feel stupider

    I liked seasons 1 & 2 because it was cool how it dealt with shit we don't like to talk about: we do shitty things to other countries and people, our soldiers don't go into war and come out like Captain America but instead some will get seriously fucked up, and there are good brown people and there are bad brown people. Now season 3 has turned into a retarded, "rich American bankers hate America and don't have a problem dealing with people who kill hundreds of people on US soil" clusterfuck of liberal circle-jerking.

    season 2 should have had Nazir escape, release the tapes, and Brodie been captured. Season 3 is Carrie is vilified as a fucked up agent who slept with one terrorist and let another one escape, Brodie is put through public trials and we see both sides ("he's a traitor" vs "we did this to him"). In the meantime we see Nazir working with Iran to plan a really, really big unexpected cyber attack and the season finale is the entire western financial system gets fucked up, Iran invades Saudi Arabia and uses nukes to prevent any retaliations, Brodie is freed by Nasir and joins him after he realizes he has no place anymore in America.

    Season 4 is all about trying to infiltrate the new caliphate that Iran is setting up in the Middle East as oil jumps 50x, the west is in collapse, China is in anarchy, Battlefield 4 basically.

  3. #103
    The guy with the gun BrutulTM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bondurant View Post
    "Hey, let's hire this ex-CIA bipolar and psychotic bitch, let's release her from that CIA-watched psych ward where everyone and their grandmother has eyes on her, let's hire her to run our secret terrorist organization !"
    I'm sure they weren't going to "hire to run the secret terrorist organization". Don't be an asshole.

    There's a reason why people with security clearances are watched very carefully when they get into substance abuse problems, money problems, family problems, etc. That is a great sign that they might be someone who is vulnerable to foreign intelligence agents.
    Last edited by BrutulTM; 10-25-2013 at 02:43 PM.

  4. #104
    Registered User Bondurant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrutulTM View Post
    I'm sure they weren't going to "hire to run the secret terrorist organization". Don't be an asshole.

    There's a reason why people with security clearances are watched very carefully when they get into substance abuse problems, money problems, family problems, etc. That is a great sign that they might be someone who is vulnerable to foreign intelligence agents.
    Except she's not vulnerable, she's a liability. Being mentally ill and not taking your medication is a permanent threat for any spy / terrorist groups having you on payroll. I know it's rather a question of opinion there, but to me it just doesn't add up. Sometimes it's not all about realism, it's about coherence.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bondurant View Post
    Except she's not vulnerable, she's a liability. Being mentally ill and not taking your medication is a permanent threat for any spy / terrorist groups having you on payroll. I know it's rather a question of opinion there, but to me it just doesn't add up. Sometimes it's not all about realism, it's about coherence.
    It doesn't really sound like they're putting her on payroll as an ongoing employee. Carrie only has a temporary use to them. They want whatever information she can provide them regarding the CIA and its operations in the Middle East. Since (as far as they know) she's no longer working for the CIA, she's obviously not someone that can continue to provide them information over the long-term. That might be why they're willing to overlook her psychological problems and instability, particularly if their plan involves doing away with her once they get what they want.

  6. #106
    Registered User Bondurant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cantatus View Post
    It doesn't really sound like they're putting her on payroll as an ongoing employee. Carrie only has a temporary use to them. They want whatever information she can provide them regarding the CIA and its operations in the Middle East. Since (as far as they know) she's no longer working for the CIA, she's obviously not someone that can continue to provide them information over the long-term. That might be why they're willing to overlook her psychological problems and instability, particularly if their plan involves doing away with her once they get what they want.
    Granted they're more interested about CIA's latest strike against them than putting Carrie within their ranks on a regular basis, but in my opinion it would be quite stupid trying to flip a disgraced CIA analyst with a mental illness history. If CIA can't trust her anymore, I doubt terrorists would be willing to. I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm saying it's too far stretched to be convincing. Especially when they're trying to tell us a bipolar person (who, one would say, has usually trouble dealing with his emotions) would fake his very own illness pattern to cheat everyone.

    As a whole, it doesn't make much sens to me. I loved Homeland s1 because it dealt with different strings than your classic spy tv show, but s3 is basically 24 rehashed with twists, quadruple agents everywhere and every mastermind villain killed reveals a more powerful and more evil villain, pulling the strings behind the curtains. Please, not that shit anymore. We need quality writing though story and character development, we don't need teen drama subplots, Emmy baits and powerup bad guys. I'm looking at you Chip Johanssen, it didn't really take long before your 24 shitty writing instincts took over in your new job, did it ?

  7. #107
    Registered User supertouch's Avatar
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    I feel like I'm missing something obvious, but who are these Venezuelan dudes?

  8. #108
    Registered User Szlia's Avatar
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    Guys who owe Carrie a favor. I think that's about all we know at this point.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bondurant View Post
    Granted they're more interested about CIA's latest strike against them than putting Carrie within their ranks on a regular basis, but in my opinion it would be quite stupid trying to flip a disgraced CIA analyst with a mental illness history. If CIA can't trust her anymore, I doubt terrorists would be willing to. I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm saying it's too far stretched to be convincing. Especially when they're trying to tell us a bipolar person (who, one would say, has usually trouble dealing with his emotions) would fake his very own illness pattern to cheat everyone.
    At this point, it's hard to even tell how much trust they're putting in her. While they likely view it as incredibly unlikely for her to go back to the CIA after they've thrown the complete weight of the organization behind keeping her institutionalized, there's really nothing much Carrie could deliver to them right now. The big test will be what happens after she meets the new Big Bad and has information that could make her a liability.

  10. #110
    Low Information Janitor chaos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bondurant View Post
    Granted they're more interested about CIA's latest strike against them than putting Carrie within their ranks on a regular basis, but in my opinion it would be quite stupid trying to flip a disgraced CIA analyst with a mental illness history. If CIA can't trust her anymore, I doubt terrorists would be willing to. I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm saying it's too far stretched to be convincing. Especially when they're trying to tell us a bipolar person (who, one would say, has usually trouble dealing with his emotions) would fake his very own illness pattern to cheat everyone.

    As a whole, it doesn't make much sens to me. I loved Homeland s1 because it dealt with different strings than your classic spy tv show, but s3 is basically 24 rehashed with twists, quadruple agents everywhere and every mastermind villain killed reveals a more powerful and more evil villain, pulling the strings behind the curtains. Please, not that shit anymore. We need quality writing though story and character development, we don't need teen drama subplots, Emmy baits and powerup bad guys. I'm looking at you Chip Johanssen, it didn't really take long before your 24 shitty writing instincts took over in your new job, did it ?
    Quadruple agents everywhere? There is one instance of a double agent, that you literally just found out about. And she isn't so much a "double agent" as she is working undercover, it isn't like she is going to Iran. And Iran was always the power behind Nasir, we ALWAYS knew that.

    I think you're missing the point, the CIA doesn't "not" trust her. She never "stopped taking her meds." Not like that anyway. the whole thing was fabricated to look real, they have obviously had this plan moving for a while. And of course the Iranians will pay her money to listen to her talk. Why wouldn't they? Money doesn't mean much to these people.

  11. #111
    Let the games begin! Bane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Szlia View Post
    Guys who owe Carrie a favor. I think that's about all we know at this point.
    The guy holding Brody owes Carrie a favor? Did I miss that somewhere? Plz explain?
    When fohguild.org is in ashes, then you have my permission to die.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bane View Post
    The guy holding Brody owes Carrie a favor? Did I miss that somewhere? Plz explain?
    she setup that whole escape plan for brody

  13. #113
    The guy with the gun BrutulTM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bondurant View Post
    If CIA can't trust her anymore, I doubt terrorists would be willing to.
    Come on. When you are trying to turn an agent then by definition you think that they are not trustworthy. If you think that they are trustworthy then you would be wasting your time trying to turn them.

  14. #114
    Registered User Szlia's Avatar
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    We finally got the antagonist and he comes with the promise of some good TV!

  15. #115
    Registered User Xarpolis's Avatar
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    Claire Danes is a good looking broad.

  16. #116
    Registered User spronk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Szlia View Post
    We finally got the antagonist and he comes with the promise of some good TV!
    he will torture claire by making her watch 24 hours of dana surveillance footage

    also big foreshadowing of future guest star with claire talking about romeo and juliet
    Last edited by spronk; 10-28-2013 at 01:09 PM.

  17. #117
    Registered User Xarpolis's Avatar
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    Dana was SUCH a frump when she was crying at the end of this episode. I never understood why people think she's hot. That scene definitely accented her unhotness quite a bit.

  18. #118
    Registered User supertouch's Avatar
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    That's what people look like when they cry. I thought the episode was great but I still want to know who those dudes in Venezuela are.

  19. #119
    Registered User Slaythe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xarpolis View Post
    Dana was SUCH a frump when she was crying at the end of this episode. I never understood why people think she's hot. That scene definitely accented her unhotness quite a bit.
    I don't necessarily find her all that attractive, but I do think she's a really good young actress. I wish the story line they have her on this season was better, but she delivers most of her scenes pretty well I think.

  20. #120
    Registered User Xarpolis's Avatar
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    Yeah, I wasn't talking about her acting. She seems to know her shit.

    Someone earlier in this thread (I don't remember who) said she was hot, and that's bugged me ever since I first read it. Not hot, no! bad.

  21. #121
    Totally Ninja Sterling's Avatar
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    Sometimes she looks good, sometimes she looks like dogshit. No consistency at all. She's got reasonable skills though. Also she was in Stardust, which was awesome.

  22. #122
    Registered User Bondurant's Avatar
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    Can't help but find flaws in this show : teen drama is underwhelming (usual cliche about fugitive getting gas on a shop where their portraits are on tv), Saul getting fucked was obvious especially when he's the only ranked CIA manager knowing about Carrie's double agent deception (Quinn doesn't count since he's a field operative), and the big powerup villain casually coming on US soil to figure how CIA secretly killed six of their key guys is retarded as fuck. I don't really hate the show, but it's too obvious they got no clues about writing direction past season one.

  23. #123
    Registered Hutt Agraza's Avatar
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    The Brody family drama has been pretty consistently boring. They should dial it back a LOT more.

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bondurant View Post
    Can't help but find flaws in this show : teen drama is underwhelming (usual cliche about fugitive getting gas on a shop where their portraits are on tv)
    At least they didn't use the entire cliche and have them have to go on the run because the gas station attendant recognized them and called the police! They used it more to have Dana find out the truth about her boyfriend, though it did strike me as ridiculous that a news organization would be able to reveal that much information about a minor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bondurant View Post
    Saul getting fucked was obvious especially when he's the only ranked CIA manager knowing about Carrie's double agent deception (Quinn doesn't count since he's a field operative), and the big powerup villain casually coming on US soil to figure how CIA secretly killed six of their key guys is retarded as fuck. I don't really hate the show, but it's too obvious they got no clues about writing direction past season one.
    One thing I give them a little credit for is the fact that they apparently have no idea what to do with Brody, so they just aren't using him much. Instead, Saul has moved more to the forefront and gotten his own plot, which is a lot more interesting than seeing Brody in South America. The senator taking over the CIA also has some potential to shake things up.

  25. #125
    WINS! ShakyJake's Avatar
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    How about this: if Carrie and Saul had a plan the entire time, then why did Carrie whisper out a "Fuck you, Saul" at the mental ward? Why did she act all crushed when Saul said she was bipolar at the congressional hearing? It was like those bits were only there to fool the audience.

  26. #126
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    Saul came up with the plan on his own, initiated it, then filled Carrie in when he visited her. Or at least that's the least ridiculous explanation I can think of.

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    Quote Originally Posted by felldoh View Post
    Saul came up with the plan on his own, initiated it, then filled Carrie in when he visited her. Or at least that's the least ridiculous explanation I can think of.
    Either that, or he let Carrie know he had a plan, but decided to keep her in the dark about the exact details so she'd act believably.

  28. #128
    Registered User Injektilo's Avatar
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    No, she told him to go fuck himself because, as she pointed out when they had the big reveal for the viewer, he left her in the mental institute waaaaaaaaaaaaay longer than she wanted (or probably had agreed to). A point that he not only doesnt disagree with, he glosses over in front of her by putting his arm around her shoulders and suggesting they go get a nice cup of tea. She definitely meant that fuck you, despite being in on the plan.
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  29. #129
    Registered User Szlia's Avatar
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    It was made clear when she met Saul after getting contacted by the pawns of Iran that she did not expect to spend that much time at the hospital. As for her reaction to the hearing, you can argue that its the shock of being confronted to the reality of the plan or maybe Saul was vague in the way he planned to discredit her and so she was genuinely surprised. It was there to be misleading though, that's for sure.


    EDIT: slow typing

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    I have hope for this season with the reveal that Carrie is a double agent play.

    I'm glad the teen drama with Dana is also done. Hopefully her mom still gets some screen time as I would stick it to her.

  31. #131
    Registered User Sean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Div View Post
    I'm glad the teen drama with Dana is also done.
    Boy, that is some wishful thinking. I sure would like it to be done with, but I have no doubt that even more of that garbage will be thrown in our faces.

  32. #132
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    I sort of get where they're going with the Dana drama now, at least. The part with Jessica and Carrie made it clear they're going with a parallel between Carrie and Dana and them both going after guys they know aren't good for them. Because of that, like Sean says, I doubt it's over. This is similar to the trajectory Carrie had where she realized Brody really was the person she suspected, but continued to pursue him regardless. Either that, or crazy boyfriend will go full stalker mode, kidnap Dana, and Brody will have to come rescue her or some shit.

  33. #133
    Registered User Szlia's Avatar
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    Brody should come back into play when Saul goes after the money trail in Caracas.

  34. #134
    Registered User Bondurant's Avatar
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    Or maybe it's just bad writing, when bipolar people manage to discard pharmacology and control their own emotions for the sake of it ?

  35. #135
    The guy with the gun BrutulTM's Avatar
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    Actually it's extremely common for bipolar or schizophrenic people to refuse to take their meds. Lots of homeless people are schizos that could be pretty normal on their meds but refuse to take them for whatever reason.

  36. #136
    Low Information Janitor chaos's Avatar
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    Her not "I'm not taking my meds" shit was part of the scam...

  37. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrutulTM View Post
    Actually it's extremely common for bipolar or schizophrenic people to refuse to take their meds. Lots of homeless people are schizos that could be pretty normal on their meds but refuse to take them for whatever reason.
    Not to mention, it's pretty common for people on psychotropic drugs to go off their meds because they falsely believe they no longer need them. It's also been established that Carrie believes she's more effective at her job when she's not medicated. They make her miss things and "foggy".

    However, if I recall correctly, Carrie's release from the mental hospital was contingent on her doing out-patient check-ups, and given her history, I find it really hard to believe that medication checks wouldn't be part of that. Or did whatever strings Javadi's men pulled to get her out conveniently negate that requirement?

  38. #138
    Registered User Szlia's Avatar
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    I would assume something like out-patient check-ups happen once a week or once a month, so it has yet to affect the story id she has to go through something like that.

  39. #139
    Registered User spronk's Avatar
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    off her meds will be a plot device used to fool lie detectors, cuz i guess torturing carrie would be too much for TV

  40. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by chaos View Post
    Her not "I'm not taking my meds" shit was part of the scam...

    Probably. But, boy do a lot of patients do it anyways in the real world! :P

  41. #141
    Registered User Bondurant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrutulTM View Post
    Actually it's extremely common for bipolar or schizophrenic people to refuse to take their meds. Lots of homeless people are schizos that could be pretty normal on their meds but refuse to take them for whatever reason.
    Yeah but it's never implied Carrie skipped meds when she was on psych ward. Anyway bipolar disorders aren't really canon, therefore I'm being a tool arguing about it. On the other hand, Carrie being harshly abducted when you can just sit on a laptop reading thermal satellite activity in 2013 is just dumb, especially when GTI (genuine target intelligence) is so common these days. I know ground intel is a huge topic these days, but tbh it felt a lot like 24 show when tech failed for the sake of the plot.

  42. #142
    Registered User Szlia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bondurant View Post
    especially when GTI (genuine target intelligence) is so common these days.
    Not common enough to show up on a google search :/ What is it?

  43. #143
    Registered Hutt Agraza's Avatar
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    You don't need to know, foreigner.

  44. #144
    Low Information Janitor chaos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bondurant View Post
    Yeah but it's never implied Carrie skipped meds when she was on psych ward. Anyway bipolar disorders aren't really canon, therefore I'm being a tool arguing about it. On the other hand, Carrie being harshly abducted when you can just sit on a laptop reading thermal satellite activity in 2013 is just dumb, especially when GTI (genuine target intelligence) is so common these days. I know ground intel is a huge topic these days, but tbh it felt a lot like 24 show when tech failed for the sake of the plot.
    That is the whole theme of the CIA plotline this season, that human intelligence still has a place in a technological world. In some ways they have already proved that, Carrie got into a room with Abu-Whatshisname where technology had a hard time proving he even existed outside of like 2 photos in 10+ years. The idea is, as I see it now, that the technology is never more than a supplement to the human element.

    The same goes from the terrorist perspective. There is no replacement for Carrie's knowledge and experience. Even if they had the tech to just sit on a laptop and track her (being Iranian, they don't) it wouldn't give them what they want.

  45. #145
    Registered User Szlia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Szlia View Post
    We finally got the antagonist and he comes with the promise of some good TV!
    Hah! I am glad I was right! The battle of the veteran spies should prove entertaining!

  46. #146
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    I'm kind of annoyed that they're contradicting earlier scenes so they can trick the audience with these big reveals. First you have Carrie genuinely shocked by Saul's testimony to the Senate when they've already planned this big operation. Now you have Carrie's pregnancy after she was committed to a mental institution where they would have undoubtedly tested her.

  47. #147
    Registered User Bondurant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Szlia View Post
    Not common enough to show up on a google search :/ What is it?
    Translated it from French sorry, it means intelligence gathered through /with people rather than tech.

    Quote Originally Posted by supertouch View Post
    First you have Carrie genuinely shocked by Saul's testimony to the Senate when they've already planned this big operation. Now you have Carrie's pregnancy after she was committed to a mental institution where they would have undoubtedly tested her.
    Yeah the pregnancy thing isn't making any sense, also the arranged meeting between Javadi and Carrie was stupid writing : Javadi's guys are too well trained for him to attract suspicion, yes he GOES ALONE meeting a unstable crazy chick who's double agent for like 7 hours just after her first assignment ? Bah.
    Last edited by Bondurant; 11-05-2013 at 01:02 AM.

  48. #148
    Registered User Xarpolis's Avatar
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    So I just finished watching last night's episode. As Carrie sat with Javadi during the lie detector scene, I swore that I knew him from somewhere.

    Then during my shower it popped into my mind. He was the angry shop owner that got robbed in Crash. The one that went on to shoot the security company installer guy with a blank and everyone thinks his daughter gets shot instead.

    That fucker!

  49. #149
    Low Information Janitor chaos's Avatar
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    It never really occurred to me that she was actually pregnant, since we didn't see the positive I figured that was just her obsessive behavior manifesting. She had dozens of those things in the drawer. If she is actually pregnant, yeah, the first thing they do to a woman being admitted anywhere is a pregnancy test, so that is a bit of a fuckup. It isn't really a big deal though, this isn't the "totally realistic medical inprocessing show".

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    All the tests had a +. And it is a big deal because the last thing Carrie (or any active field agent) should be doing is babies. Pumping her full of lithium and other crazy people drugs will do wonders for that kid. Plus they're probably going to do something retarded like make it Brodys. Homeland don't need no baby mamma drama.

  51. #151
    Low Information Janitor chaos's Avatar
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    Did they? I was watching a shitty online streaming version and they looked blank.

    I assume it woul have to be Brody's if she is actually pregnant, there were a whole lot of tests there and she didn't take up fucking Josh Homme until recently, so I am assuming they have showed us who she has fucked.

  52. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by chaos View Post
    Did they? I was watching a shitty online streaming version and they looked blank.

    I assume it woul have to be Brody's if she is actually pregnant, there were a whole lot of tests there and she didn't take up fucking Josh Homme until recently, so I am assuming they have showed us who she has fucked.
    wow you must have had the shittiest stream, it was a pretty big +, heck the ept (whatever brand) even had + pregnant, -not pregnant.

    i don't think it's brody, i don't remember season2, when was the last time she slept with him? in the cabin? let's just remember that this eps she said something like "you bombed 12-12, we started 12-13"

    in tin man down (the first eps s3) it said that she was called to testify 58days after the attack.

    so i'm assuming if it was brody she'd be at least 2months preggers, mostly 3 by this eps.

    it's most likely that guy she had stair sex with and then later stole money from.

    but maybe, she did have a pregnancy test at the psyc ward and they said, "oh btw, you know your a nutball that's pregnant?" that could be a possibility too.

    maybe now that we know saul is on the outs with his wife (separated?) he'll hook up with the financial analyst?
    Last edited by lanx; 11-05-2013 at 08:07 AM.

  53. #153
    Registered User spronk's Avatar
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    the whole basis of the saul character is that he is completely unable to form non work relations, isn't driven by sex, can't be romantic, is completely dedicated and consumed by work, won't talk about "feelings", etc. It would be pretty dumb for him to start hooking up with anyone.

    So yeah, he probably will hook up with Dana in the season finale and have a threesome with the black roommate. ewww.... but kinda hot...

  54. #154
    The guy with the gun BrutulTM's Avatar
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    I don't know how long this show is supposed to last but I imagine they could make it a couple seasons just while she's pregnant the way the timeline of this show has gone. I can't really see that her actually having a baby could be compatible with the show but maybe she would put it up for adoption or pass it off to her sister or something. I don't think even in this day and age they would have the balls to have her get an abortion just because it would cause a lot of blowback for the show and people boycotting Showtime and shit. Of course a convenient miscarriage is always an option.

    If they do the Dexter thing where she just has a kid and leaves it with a hot 23 year old nanny 24-7 who never seems to mind that she never gets to leave the house then I'm getting off the Homeland train.
    Last edited by BrutulTM; 11-05-2013 at 03:13 PM.

  55. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xarpolis View Post
    So I just finished watching last night's episode. As Carrie sat with Javadi during the lie detector scene, I swore that I knew him from somewhere.

    Then during my shower it popped into my mind. He was the angry shop owner that got robbed in Crash. The one that went on to shoot the security company installer guy with a blank and everyone thinks his daughter gets shot instead.

    That fucker!
    I think hes also the torturer in that one Arnold movie True Lies.

  56. #156
    Banned By Next Week General Antony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spronk View Post
    the whole basis of the saul character is that he is completely unable to form non work relations, isn't driven by sex, can't be romantic, is completely dedicated and consumed by work, won't talk about "feelings", etc. It would be pretty dumb for him to start hooking up with anyone.
    INTJ like a boss.

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    Quote Originally Posted by supertouch View Post
    I'm kind of annoyed that they're contradicting earlier scenes so they can trick the audience with these big reveals. First you have Carrie genuinely shocked by Saul's testimony to the Senate when they've already planned this big operation. Now you have Carrie's pregnancy after she was committed to a mental institution where they would have undoubtedly tested her.
    Maybe I missed this, but I was under the impression that Saul didn't actually fill her in on this?

    Quote Originally Posted by BrutulTM
    I don't think even in this day and age they would have the balls to have her get an abortion just because it would cause a lot of blowback for the show and people boycotting Showtime and shit.
    I was thinking just that as I watched the scene... it's painfully obvious that she should get an abortion, but TV can't allow for that to happen. It's ok to repeatedly stab someone in the throat with a bottle, but an abortion is out.

  58. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soriak View Post
    Maybe I missed this, but I was under the impression that Saul didn't actually fill her in on this?


    I was thinking just that as I watched the scene... it's painfully obvious that she should get an abortion, but TV can't allow for that to happen. It's ok to repeatedly stab someone in the throat with a bottle, but an abortion is out.
    Clearly the best option is for her to get stabbed in the stomach with a bottle.

  59. #159
    Registered User Szlia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spronk View Post
    the whole basis of the saul character is that he is completely unable to form non work relations, isn't driven by sex, can't be romantic, is completely dedicated and consumed by work, won't talk about "feelings", etc.
    I don't agree with this portrait you make of Saul. The love he has for his wife, the father/daughter relation he has with Carrie or that he developed with the terrorist girl in season 2 (?), show he has a very high level of empathy, but he keeps his emotions bottled up and share his rage, pain and doubts with no one. Only rarely the pressure cooker explodes (scolding the muslim analyst, punching the iranian super spy).The character reminds me a lot of Toby in The West Wing, both have this tremendous gravitas, but also something painful, an aura resulting from their inner struggles, their lonely war, and the crushing weight of their responsibilities. Also both are bearded jewish intellectuals that have marital troubles with their very successful wives.

  60. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Szlia View Post
    I don't agree with this portrait you make of Saul. The love he has for his wife, the father/daughter relation he has with Carrie or that he developed with the terrorist girl in season 2 (?), show he has a very high level of empathy, but he keeps his emotions bottled up and share his rage, pain and doubts with no one. Only rarely the pressure cooker explodes (scolding the muslim analyst, punching the iranian super spy).The character reminds me a lot of Toby in The West Wing, both have this tremendous gravitas, but also something painful, an aura resulting from their inner struggles, their lonely war, and the crushing weight of their responsibilities. Also both are bearded jewish intellectuals that have marital troubles with their very successful wives.
    Agreed. Saul is totally more like a fellow ISFJ than one of you INTJs.

  61. #161
    Low Information Janitor chaos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soriak View Post
    Maybe I missed this, but I was under the impression that Saul didn't actually fill her in on this?

    They didn't spell it out, but the impression that I got was that she was in on everything. The whole "I'm not taking me meds, and look how mad I am at Saul!" bit was for her family.

  62. #162
    Registered User BoldW's Avatar
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    Prior to the revelation (for us) when was the last time Saul and Carrie met in person? He showed up at the nutty ward after Saul went public with the she was banging Brody bit?

  63. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Szlia View Post
    I don't agree with this portrait you make of Saul. The love he has for his wife, the father/daughter relation he has with Carrie or that he developed with the terrorist girl in season 2 (?), show he has a very high level of empathy, but he keeps his emotions bottled up and share his rage, pain and doubts with no one. Only rarely the pressure cooker explodes (scolding the muslim analyst, punching the iranian super spy).The character reminds me a lot of Toby in The West Wing, both have this tremendous gravitas, but also something painful, an aura resulting from their inner struggles, their lonely war, and the crushing weight of their responsibilities. Also both are bearded jewish intellectuals that have marital troubles with their very successful wives.
    Saul and Toby also both have that same condescending whisper of a voice that I fucking hate. I am not sure why it annoys me so much, but it made The West Wing unbearable sometimes.

  64. #164
    Registered User TheBeagle's Avatar
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    Everyone is forgetting Carrie's one night stand when she got released from the mental hospital by the lawyer working with Iran. She was on the run and avoiding her house, had no money, and her credit cards were frozen. Remember? He was waiting outside in a black SUV the next morning after she lifted some money from skateboard guy's wallet.

  65. #165
    Registered User Szlia's Avatar
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    Seemed like a lot of positive pregnancy test for it to be him. On top of that, Google tells me that the most sensitive home pregnancy tests take a week after conception until they are able to detect the pregnancy hormone in the urine (The more you know!).

  66. #166
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    I didn't say it made a lick of sense, but that's definitely the last dude she's banged and it was after being admitted to the hospital.

  67. #167
    Registered User Szlia's Avatar
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    A possibility is also that the other tests are from earlier pregnancies that got terminated.

  68. #168
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    You can't have that many abortions and still be fertile. But who knows, there are a lot of holes in the writing of this show.

  69. #169
    Registered User Szlia's Avatar
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    The fact the test was positive did not seem at all like a surprise for Carrie, so it's fair to assume she checked it several times before, so maybe the drawer represents two or three previous abortions (witch is not totally out of the question when you consider how her lifestyle pas presented in the first season).

  70. #170
    Registered User TheBeagle's Avatar
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    Either that or she really is pregnant by Brody and her obsessive personality forces her to take a pee test every single day, even knowing what the outcome will be. Doesn't explain the hospital admittance not picking it up or lack of any kind of a baby bump. It is funny that she buys pregnancy tests by the gross.

  71. #171
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    The impression I got is that she's been trying to terminate Brody's baby with booze and drugs and periodically checks the status. But yeah, they should have revealed her pregnancy before the hospital stay.

  72. #172
    The guy with the gun BrutulTM's Avatar
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    I don't think you have to have a pregnancy test to find out if you've had a miscarriage, at least after the first couple weeks. It's very painful and you have blood coming out of your vagina etc.

  73. #173
    Registered User Slaythe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBeagle View Post
    Either that or she really is pregnant by Brody and her obsessive personality forces her to take a pee test every single day, even knowing what the outcome will be. Doesn't explain the hospital admittance not picking it up or lack of any kind of a baby bump. It is funny that she buys pregnancy tests by the gross.
    This is what is going on. Everyone else is over thinking things. The writing in this show isn't great anymore. We can't explain why the psych ward didn't pick up on the pregnancy. We'll just have to forget about that.

  74. #174
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    talking to a few women, it's quite possible that at 3 even 4 months preggers, she won't have a baby bump, just cuz... it's different for different ppl, so yea by the power of women concensus, it could be brody baby, that has taken drugs and lithium? while in the mental ward, and she'll pop that baby and use it to bring back brody since his other family hates him and uncle mike is now basically father mike.

  75. #175
    Low Information Janitor chaos's Avatar
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    Yeah the baby bump is really a specific thing, specific to each person. And a woman who runs 6 miles a day and whose diet consists mostly of whiskey and anti-psychotics will definitely not be showing.

    They could have tested her and found out at the hospital, actually. There is an awful lot that happened in that timeframe that we were not privy to because they wanted to have their reveal. It doesn't really matter either way, adding a scene of a nurse giving her prenatal care instructions doesn't add to the show.

  76. #176
    Registered User Szlia's Avatar
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    Looking back at this season's events under the light of her secret pregnancy is interesting... suddenly, running and herbal cures make a lot more sense, as is her being genuinely furious for staying too long in the psych ward (assuming there is no mandatory pregnancy test and that she kept it a secret).
    Last edited by Szlia; 11-07-2013 at 12:43 PM.

  77. #177
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    It's going to be Quinn's baby.

  78. #178
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    God damn it Saul! There's plenty of fish in the sea!

  79. #179
    Low Information Janitor chaos's Avatar
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    No shit.

    That was a really good episode, I think. I was glad to see Dar Adal come down on Saul's side.

  80. #180
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    Chuckled big time at the senator's reaction when he got locked in the conference room. Good episode.

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    lol at first dar adal was like "wtf is this, quinn killing ppl? saul running a super secret op w/o me? oh we can't have this, imma gonna be in the senators back pocket", then saul said, "yea we got that super arab guy, i did all this" then the sentor is like "fck that i won't let you" and then dar adal was like "oh fck you we gotta continue this old skool"
    locked in a conference room, they don't even got enough respect for the guy to give him light.

    saul's so blind, now i want him to get with the noobie headscarf finance girl.

  82. #182
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    Really like Saul in this episode until the very end, poor guy.

    "Make me" line and scene with the senator had me laughing.

  83. #183
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    while senator DickHead is, well, a dick you know he's gonna be proved 100% correct - javadi is gonna fuck saul over long and hard and kill Americans in the process. Why the fuck does Saul think he is smart enough to be Moses 2.0 and bring peace to the Middle East? He couldn't even prevent 2 middle age women from getting headshot or figure out his wife is fucking frenchies on the side, this is all going to end badly. If the senator was smart he would publicly expose all this shit and bring Saul to trial and promise a new clean CIA, but of course he will somehow be convinced to go along with these dumb plans to save face or something.

    and lol at mystery valet terrorist who pressed the bomb button, like catching one random guy will convince a single person that Brody wasn't in on it. Oh well, maybe Brody will show up in the show sometime now.

  84. #184
    Registered User Szlia's Avatar
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    Saul knows that Javadi will fuck with him and that americans will die, but a war is being waged and it is more advantageous to have him as a reluctant double agent than to kill him.


    As far as I am concerned, they have a serious problem with Javadi though: their threat has no granularity. What I mean is that they don't have him on a leach, they have him in an explosive collar. On leach, if he pulls a little, you can pull back a little, but with an explosive collar, how much must he pull for you to deem it worthy of death? How long until he finds a way to defuse the explosive?

  85. #185
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    How is Saul even going to continue with this operation in 10 days when the Senator takes over the CIA? This whole plan will never be able to come to fruition. In fact, I don't see how Saul even keeps his job at that point. In that scenario, they just sent a terrorist back to his home country and will completely lose contact with him before he can do anything useful. The plug is going to get pulled when the Senator takes over.

  86. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeboo View Post
    How is Saul even going to continue with this operation in 10 days when the Senator takes over the CIA? This whole plan will never be able to come to fruition. In fact, I don't see how Saul even keeps his job at that point. In that scenario, they just sent a terrorist back to his home country and will completely lose contact with him before he can do anything useful. The plug is going to get pulled when the Senator takes over.
    Yep and then the show will end mid season.

  87. #187
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    I'm just curious which route they go, with Saul getting shitcanned and that whole angle failing miserably, or somehow the Senator doesn't come to power and take over. I can't realistically see any other option. Then again, maybe they wrap up the whole season before either happens? Theres only 5 episodes left, I guess they could deal with only what happens in the next 10 days and leave the regime shift in the CIA for next season. We're probably due another Brody episode or 2 to chew up some time.

    I will have to say, this was probably my favorite episode of the season, mainly because there was no Brody wife or daughter in it at all.

  88. #188
    Registered User supertouch's Avatar
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    I still wanna know who the mole is. Galvez is dead, too much about Saul has been revealed. Who are the likely suspects?

  89. #189
    Registered User Szlia's Avatar
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    I think Saul's plan is to be confirmed in the face of what is basically one of the most impressive spy work conceivable: turning a top level intelligence officer of an enemy nation.

  90. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeboo View Post
    I will have to say, this was probably my favorite episode of the season, mainly because there was no Brody wife or daughter in it at all.
    Haha yeah at this point I guess everyone would stick with Saul / Carrie arc and say fuck off to Brodys arcs.

  91. #191
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    Caught up today, and yes, this episode had substance to it and actually moved the real story forward. Make the Brodys go away. This is way better

  92. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by supertouch View Post
    I still wanna know who the mole is. Galvez is dead, too much about Saul has been revealed. Who are the likely suspects?
    the only possible candidate really is Dar Adal, there is literally no other character it could be who has been on the show from season 1 (Quinn wouldn't make sense given what we have seen, Sauls wife was gone too much, others are all dead?). It could also be the senator I guess, but that would just be stupid.

    iirc the only "mole-ish" things that happened during season 1 was someone passing a blade to the brown guy they had in custody, and someone calling Abu Nasir to warn him. We already know Brodie did the second thing, and it stands to reason he did the first thing too so maybe there is no mole. All the other stuff like warning the tailor, Brodie initiated too I think?

    Dar Adal makes the most sense, it was bizarre the way he just abandoned the senator/director-nominee and backed Saul, who seems to have absolutely no patience or ability to play Washington politics. I just hope they don't turn the senator, lawyer and "second bomber" manhunt into an "evil corporate cabal is behind all this" stupid conspiracy plot, where a couple of rich old white guys are pulling the strings because they want bigger defense contracts and control of the middle east.

  93. #193
    Registered User Slaythe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spronk View Post
    I just hope they don't turn the senator, lawyer and "second bomber" manhunt into an "evil corporate cabal is behind all this" stupid conspiracy plot, where a couple of rich old white guys are pulling the strings because they want bigger defense contracts and control of the middle east.
    With how wonderful season 1 was, I would love to give this show more credit, but do you really think they'll take this story in another direction than this? What you're dreading there is pretty much exactly what I'm expecting.

  94. #194
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    I would happily watch a season of Saul truly setting up an event catastrophic enough in Iran that it left Javadi the head of Iran's intelligence agency and Saul the head of the CIA. Then let the cat and mouse spy games ensue. Plus more Peter Quinn assassination action please.
    Injektilo - Dark Horizon - Everquest
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  95. #195
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    The Senator replacing Saul has to be one of the most one dimensional characters ever to appear on TV. He literally serves no other purpose other than to antagonise Saul and make the viewer root for Saul.

  96. #196
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    The guy has been in four scenes for a grand total of 15 lines and is here to represent the post-'human assets' take on intelligence so what did you expect at this point?

  97. #197
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    Don't say that. He'll call his mommy (the president) on you!

  98. #198
    Low Information Janitor chaos's Avatar
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    There is a not insignificant portion of people in real life who agree with his sentiments. I think we are meant to sympathize with them, after seeing how clusterfucked the Brody operation was and seeing the kid get murdered in Caracas. Human intelligence definitely has some potential for failure.

  99. #199
    Registered User spronk's Avatar
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    and Homeland had a great opportunity to make Saul a more interesting character, by having the Senator/director-elect give a speech to Saul and Dar Adal about how we should never let evil doers walk free, that their slippery slope of making deals with people and covering up shitty things is what gets America into trouble, that its time for people who think and act like them to go because they corrupt the entire system. He could have agreed that Iran will just install another bad guy, but they will find him too and kill him and the next guy and the next guy but they won't compromise their principles in doing it. And THEN having Saul and Dar Adal work against him would be interesting.

    but instead he is just a cartoon Dick Cheney who wants to predator strike anyone brown and only cares about scoring political points.

  100. #200
    Low Information Janitor chaos's Avatar
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    I really don't think that his position is so much different than what you just posted. It isn't political points that drive him, he has a fundamentally different vision of what intelligence should be in the modern world. And he comes at this as kind of an outsider, versus Saul and Dar who have been working on the inside for decades.

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