Kind of a filler ep tonight, got to see Olivia kicking ass was the highlight.
Only 5 episodes left.
Last edited by Silence; 12-08-2012 at 04:50 AM.
This episode was amazing lol
Walter on acid was fantastic
Indeed! It's probably my favorite one so far
Windmark showed emotion when he said Nina and the rebels were animals for experimenting on the captured Observers.
Yeah Donald's identity was somewhat obvious, it had to be someone they knew since they were keeping it so close to the vest... I don't like how they nerfed the observers though... From the beginning it was explained that they see time as fluid, and they have been shown in the past episodes to appear where they please in time, hell even Observer Peter was raping shit like this ... so why didn't the Observers just go back 20 minutes before Nina left her office and just stop here there?
I understand with the show being on the verge of cancellation for several years they sometimes write shit they have to retcon and time travel powers in general are hard to deal with without creating massive plot holes (*ahem* Heroes) so I'm just being nitpicky cause I love this show. Sigh just 3 more episodes
really not enjoying this season.
on the observers powers i just figured i missed something about them being limited but on the one where they tracked Observer Peter down, he said all we needed was a starting point (the briefcase) then have to wonder why they are not using those powers to figure everything else out.
yeah the whole season is just random shit happening without much rhyme or reason, selectively picking stuff from season 1-3 and ignoring stuff that would contradict things going on. I'll reserve final judgement until the finale, but I do hope they explain the following things
- why the fuck did the Observers pick 2016 as the invasion point, instead of way way way back further. For a race of Spocks, I can't figure out why they left a "planet that was dying" (Septs words) to only go back 600 years. Also why did they pick "our" Universe instead of RedVerse or any other one?
- what the fuck is up with the more peaceful scientist Observers of s1-3, vs the military version we see now. I am sure they will give an answer to this.
- so... Olivia and Cortexifan... big part of s1-4, all wrapped up? The "she was a battery and now she is drained" explanation is retarded.
I really, really hope we see an episode where they time travel forward to the future to see the Observers "at home", maybe see Observer factions or something which would explain a lot more. I'm pretty sure the finale is going to involve time travel and resetting everything so basically they go back to 2012/2013, stop the invasion before it even happens, and everyone lives happily ever after including a young Etta. Maybe Walter and September sacrifice themselves to make it happen.
But like you said they selectively pick observer powers when it fits with the plot and then ignore shit that would completely negate that episodes plot. Yeah as much as I don't like it, the Cortexifan deal is all wrapped up due to her using the last bit to rez herself, pretty gay but whatever guess they had to wrap it up somehow.
No clue why the hell they picked 2016 really, maybe the scientist observers or September somehow convinced them that that would be the best year to invade, while secretly knowing that it would be the best time for the observers to be repelled by the Fringe team?
Also, it looks like the child observer unlocked all of Walter's memories including the ones from the original timeline, which is awesome! (unless the writers decide to just ignore that part of the memory surge)
Last edited by Phaint; 12-24-2012 at 09:11 PM.
Didn't think we would be seeing any more of the alternate universe, guess I was wrong. Couldn't tell from the preview, does anyone know if the alternate universe is dealing with an observer invasion?
well i was wrong about walter's flashbacks
One more episode left. Two-hour series finale Jan 18th.
'Fringe' Series Finale: John Noble Says It Will Be One Of The Greatest Of All Time
Last edited by kidgamer; 01-12-2013 at 03:09 PM.
good stuff, needed this episode early on in the season. Lot of backstory filled in now - Observers started in 2161, by 26xx they had fucked up their planet and were grown in vats. The original Observers from s1-3 were ones who traveled to the past to figure out the best timeline/universe/whatever to travel back to and create a new Observer timeline, presumably one in which their planet isn't fucked up. Once the math was all done they picked 2016 (?) as the invasion point, as it was the one with the highest probability of Observers continuing their society. The "commander" doesn't want windmark to go and kill Walter as a baby or whatever, it would disrupt their calculations and possibly screw up their new timeline.
Only thing really left to figure out is what happens if the plan succeeds and they stop the observers from being created in 2161. No observers means September doesn't distract Walternate which means Peter gets cured in UniverseB but still dies in UniverseA, essentially erasing the enire series. PeterB could still meet OliviaB though, I think that was alluded to in an earlier season finale. Seeing UniverseB again is gonna be AWESOME, Zeppelin Universe is the best Universe.
If the observers cease to exist, there is no anomaly (Michael) cloned from September. If there's no anomaly to show the scientists in Norway, then said scientists repeat their mistake and create Observers all over again.
PARADOX, mission fails, humanity remains fucked.
is this show as awful as it was when i stopped watching halfway through season 3, or did they improve it?
did they make a dent in the 500+ loose ends they had going on all the time?
its like lost, a lot of great moments with a lot of shitty filler in between. season 1-3 were the best, you kept hoping 4 & 5 were gonna be great but most of the episodes have been mediocore (not terrible, but not great). They kept abandoning story plots or tied them up in pretty pathetic ways, so that part hasn't gotten much better.
really you could watch the first few episodes of season 4, the last few, the first few of season 5, and the last few, and you wouldn't miss a lot. It is no DS9 or Babylon 5.
wait... how can they send this kid into the future to "show" the scientists that you do not have to sacrifice emotions... if they send him to the future then they are sending him to a future where the observers are already here... forget all the paradox stuff about if it works etc... how can it work when those scientists are prolly dead now, or loyalists.
It can't work period. Just like initiating a global invasion 150 years before the initial experiment that created your "race" wouldn't work. This episode was really bad, but the timeline stuff is horrible. Anyways, if/when it does work, Peter will never leave universeB, Fringe Division will never exist, and Walter (if he still gets committed) will never leave the mental institution. Peter and Olivia should have figured this out immediately, and realized that they won't get their daughter back. Wouldn't be so bad, if say, the initial experiment had occurred before the invasion and if September hadn't distracted Walternate that day. Also didn't like the retcon of "The boy is important, he must live." Ugh.
Was hoping "the plan" was to build some sort of device that would send out a pulse that would fry Observer implants.
Peter will die if the future changes. Septembers whole purpose in approaching/helping Walter save kid Peter was to change the Observes view on emotions etc. So, if it works, motherfuckers will die.
Just started watching this series in reruns on the Science channel. I kept hearing how good it was but did not want to jump in halfway through. I am really enjoying it so far, seems like it will only get weirder.
I might start watching this soon...
This show had me hooked for about a season and a half, then it kind of lost its oomph :/
shmaltzy happy ending, which is nice I guess. Broyles should have gone out in a blaze of glory, having had a hidden AM bomb in his fake eyeball and taking Windmark and his goons out.
The most annoying thing to me is that a show based on science completely ignores the biggest paradox: if the observers are erased, then September never distracts Walternate, which means Walter doesn't crossover to save Peter and thus Peter never lives in UniverseA which means no Etta or Fringe and possibly Walter stays locked up in a mental institute forever. I guess that would have been depressing as fuck...
It also is pretty shitty that the entire thing revolves around Walter and the boy convincing some random scientists in 2167 not to go down a certain path, it should have tied in much tighter to Walter. Like the Observers evolved from tech that Bell and Walter made (shapeshifters gone amuck!), so they travel in time to the PAST to convince Bell and Walter not to play god. Also a depressing ending if it ends up with Walter erasing himself, but much more meaningful.
When Olivia started shutting down all the lights I expected some super saiyan shit like a black hole appearing and eating Windmark, not a car-crusher-combo
oh well, sad to see the show over but glad in many ways, it has not been very good the past 2 years.
Last edited by spronk; 01-19-2013 at 06:01 AM.
I loved that Olivia got her revenge, something seems fishy about the ending scene, almost as if Peter knows. Something tells me they might try to revive the series into a different show. Oh and while I think the show has seen better seasons then this, I love how they incorporated a lot of the previous fringe events into their arsenal to help them.
1) "No disassemble!"
2) God damn the Observers have some shitty security.
3) Time travel pretty much ruins every show it is used in.
I was pretty underwhelmed too. The next-to-last scene was a surprise to no one I'm sure. The final one was a bit more cryptic and I'm not sure exactly what it implied.
I think it would have helped a lot with the believability of everything (not that there was much once time travel was introduced) if they had said that Walter was the scientist in the future. At least then they would have been assured of being able to change events.
Ah well, I didn't hate it, and overall I really enjoyed the show, so I'll have fond memories of it. Sort of glad it is over though because they really were starting to stretch credibility with how easily they were able to still do shit despite genius mind-reading teleporting adversaries from the future.
I was a little annoyed at Donald though - 'I've realised I love my kid so I will go to the future to be with him instead of you'. How was there any question of sending anyone else to start with ? Donald is going to cease to exist if it works in any case, so it's not like he has anything to lose.
Once they introduce time travel into a show you just have to turn your brain off because there is no way that shit will end up making sense. I still enjoyed it because I enjoy the characters. (mainly Walter of course) This is gone now and Alphas cancelled. Ugh, hope we get something good to replace them.
So talking over with other people I guess its not really a paradox that the Observers disappear but Peter still lives. Peter erasing himself in season 3 created a new timeline where both peterA and peterB died (how or why, its magic/science!). Olivia and Peter brought Peter back at the beginning of season 4, but he was now not tied to the actions of September, so Walter and the boy traveling to 2167 and "erasing" the Observers does not create a paradox. It was a cool juxtaposition, the show started with Walter stealing PeterB and stepping through a portal, the show ends with Walter taking Michael through a portal to the future.
Walter disappears at the exact moment of the 2015 Observer invasion (the etta-in-the-park scene), since by erasing the Observers in 2167 he directly impacts the past and therefore is erased at the moment of invasion. This to me is a weaker point, not sure why the universe would give a shit about paradoxes, after all they have had time travel episodes where they meet older/younger versions of themselves without erasure.
Lots of cool easter eggs too, like a bloody six finger handprint, all the fringe event monsters dumped into ObserverHQ, "Thanks for all your support" on an envelope in the final scene, scrolling text with "President Chelsea Clinton runs for re-election" and "Warner Brothers remaking Harry Potter" in altVerse, and probably a ton more.
I knew there was no way we were going to go all season without seeing Red Universe and Lincoln one last time. So that pleased me, as did Olivia going all Dark Phoenix at the end. I'm pretty sure that the tulip activates something in Peter so that if ever they wanted to do more...
I felt that the previous season tease of the Observer invaded future set up an expectation that could not be matched with a limited budget and finite episode run.
Nope. I'll walk you through it. Even if Peter remains in UniverseA somehow, how would he and Olivia meet? If Walter never crosses over there are no Fringe events. No Fringe events means no Fringe Division. No Fringe Division means Olivia never seeks out Peter to get Walter out of the mental ward. It's just bad writing, really bad.
Also, adding time travel to a show is not the problem. Hollywood hack scriptwriters who are too retarded to understand the basic rules of (fictional) time travel are the problem. They sure as fuck know how to retcon though.
I never really got into this show , but all my friends loved it. Is it something that should be watched from start to finish once it is over?
The tulip just made Peter remember the alternate future, just like it made Walter remember a timeline that was erased. How? FringeMagic!
It was already established that changing time does not fully lock away memories of what occurred, if you know how to access it. So he'll remember Walter and better appreciate the second chance he's been given etc. And since Olivia has already done it once you can pretty much assume she will remember as well. You can almost imagine the Lost purgatory-for-real-this-time scenes where they suddenly remember everything and have a tearful joyous moment.
Of course it could mean he'll ruin his life obsessing over bringing Walter back the way Olivia brought Peter back. So for fun you can think of it that way, too.
Last edited by Kreugen; 01-20-2013 at 07:28 PM.
hey, did they ever tell us what "The Pattern" was?
no, that was something they were going to pursue if the show made it into more seasons (and push the observers out further). It was going to be some sort of religious group like the guys on that show Millenium (?) i think. The character agent Jessup who came in at the start of s4 was only on for 2 episodes to convey info to new viewers ("explain it all to me!") but was going to stay on if they were going past 5 seasons.
There is no definite confirmation Peter knows what happens in the future, his look of surprise at the tulip just could have been from past knowledge of what it means to Walter. I think there are going to be a few graphic novels dealing with the notebooks Donald/September was carrying. Doubt a movie will ever be made, although I think they would like to.
re: the paradox of Peter can't exist if Observers erased, thats not really true. Its a bit hand wavy and dubious, but if you assume the machine Walter built to erase Peter is "outside" of time then his existance at the start of season 4 is independent of the Observers, he is a remnant from an inaccessible timeline (the original s1-3 timeline). So Walter erasing the Observers wouldn't affect his respawn in 2011, even though he still would have died in A and B. Basically do you think its reasonable that the machine would still have run without observers and erased and reinserted Peter at the end of season 3, or not?
A lot of it boils down to what you think the science behind the show is: are there an infinite number of universes, and each time things change in the past/future we are just seeing a different universe? No matter what in that case, everything that can happens does - observers invade, peter lives, peter dies, Bell destroys the universe, etc, etc and as viewers (the REAL Observers!) we are just seeing different universes in different episodes.
Or are there a finite set of universes, and ripples in time go backwards and forwards in a single universe? The show was kind of all over the place on this, the original white tulip episode had Walter posit the multiverse theory with infinite universes, but the fact that Olivia, Walt, Peter, etc were so tied to a single alternate universe and we never (once maybe?) saw any other universes doesn't work well with that. I think Donalds infodump to Peter also talked about this a bit but I don't remember it at all.
What? The tulip did nothing to "make Peter remember." That was the cryptic message that sends him to Walter's lab so he can watch that tape Walter recorded for him.
Anyway, I was happy with the ending. Not going to overanalyze it.
A little late to the party here, but I just caught up.
I'm glad to see the story through to conclusion, but it's pretty clear that the writers were just making shit up as they went along. Uncountable things have seemed important that ended up being dropped in fits of "Hey, look, over there!! What?" and half of the formative plot mechanics were complete deus ex anus. While the concept of the observer invasion sounds good on paper, the characters were much more interesting in the days of the Blue/Red universes. Fauxlivia and Walter/Walternate interactions were the best parts of the whole show.
I've been powering through all the seasons the last few weeks now that the first four are up on Netflix. I loved, loved, loved the first four seasons, the interplay between the red and blue universes was very well done and original. I'm about halfway through the last season and Jesus Christ it sucks. Did they get new writers/showrunners for the fifth season? Every episode there is a hugely cheesy gun battle with Peter doing his best Rambo impersonation and Olivia is constantly moping around. The whole, 'recover the tapes, follow the bread crumbs, have an adventure' for every episode is such lazy, unoriginal writing. I am disappoint. Hope it gets better.
Sadly it doesn't really. If I ever rewatched Fringe I'd probably do a Lost and pretend the final season never happened.
Hell, I'd go far enough to say stop watching at the end of Season 3 when Peter kills himself in the machine to save the universes.
Sure we got some good moments after that and of course Walter was great but from that point on it wasn't the characters we'd cared about and finishing at the end of S3 you get a complete story.
it had so much great stuff and ideas, but almost equal amount of wrong turns and dead ends.
I plowed through these shows over the winter on Amazon Prime and I fucking loved the series. I never saw season 5 though. Great characters and great actors. Will definitely watch again after some time has passed.
Also a lot of people try to break these shows down to some realistic interpretation and how none of this makes sense because of the paradox, or unrealistic nature of the events...etc... I tend to watch these type of shows for the sheer entertainment and my mind has no problem letting go of the obvious inconsistencies and just how unreal all this crap is. Same thing with the movie Prometheus or others like it. In order to enjoy any Sci-Fi you have to give in to disbelief. My wife, for instance just cannot. she just cannot let her imagination flow and just enjoy shows like this for what they are. she just says "this show is stupid, how can you watch shit like this" while Im laughing inside thinking of all the hours she fucking wasted watching General Hospital and other stupid ass shows like that, which are even more unbelievable.
Last edited by mkopec; 05-08-2013 at 05:41 PM.
I think the biggest problem for s5 was the budget cuts. I was happy to get resolution on the story, though.
Also, a lot of people try to break these shows down to some realistic interpretation, where evrything just has to be based around reality. How none of this makes sense because of the paradox, or unrealistic nature of the events...etc...Or it does not make sense because its just not logical. No shit, its fantasy. I tend to watch these type of shows for the sheer entertainment and my mind has no problem letting go of the obvious inconsistencies, logical fallacies, and just how unreal all this crap is. Same thing with the movie Prometheus or others like it. In order to enjoy any Sci-Fi you have to give in to disbelief. My wife, for instance just cannot. she just cannot let her imagination flow and just enjoy shows like this for what they are. she just says "this show is stupid, how can you watch shit like this" while Im laughing inside thinking of all the hours she fucking wasted watching General Hospital and other stupid ass shows like that, which are even more unbelievable.
Last edited by mkopec; 05-08-2013 at 05:45 PM.
i liked the first 2 seasons a lot, it seems like they had a definite plotline mapped out that they followed.
then the show fell into the same trap that Lost fell into. Stuff that was super important 2 weeks ago, wasnt even mentioned anymore. Tons of dead ends, tons of pointless directions, no cohesive or concrete narrative
J.J. Abrams should have at learned something from Lost by then though
I think it was fine until season 4 myself, thats where it all fell apart for me. Season 4 just seemed "off" for some reason.
I suspect it was the same thing for both 4 and 5, they were so sure they were going to be cancelled they hadn't allowed themselves to think that far ahead so when S3 finished with seemingly a self contained story for S1toS3 they had to start again, new plot arc and everything.
As for the 'off' thing, perhaps it was the same thing I mentioned earlier. It wasn't the same characters we had followed for three years. Instead of a red and blue universe it was effectively a third universe because Peter never existed so everyone that interacted with him had led a different life. Then Peter popped back into it again, they merged Olivia from the original universe with the new one and urgh... It was still decent compared to most shit on telly, but it just didn't feel the same.
Well, that's how I looked at it anyway.
Sorry for the necro, but I just started watching this show and had a quick question.
I am currently about to start season 4, and a guild mate of mine told me to just skip episode 19, and watch it as the season 5 premier. He didn't want to spoil anything so didn't say anymore. I'm curious now so would you guys recommend that as well? I didn't want to look anything up so I can avoid spoilers. Didn't read the thread either for obvious reasons.
Hmm. I kind of get why he said to do that, but I always believe in watching shows in order. Actually do watch it in order its kind of amusing seeing the decisions in the last episodes after watching 19.
Just watch it in order and to be honest, although I loved the show, Season 4 and part of 5 were....bla.
Spoiler question for Season 3:
doesn't go on for that much longer
As a god-tier X-files/Millennium fanboy , I've always been curious about Fringe but just haven't taken the plunge. Now that 5 seasons are available, can any fellow Chris Carter fans give it their seal of approval?
I just hate the idea of getting a few season in and then regretting it.
you won't regret it, watch it. has the same stuff that made x-files great: interesting stories, lot of monster-of-week stuff, great characters and interactions between them all, and loads of weird stuff going on.
btw gillian anderson is in a british show called The Fall, she plays a cop or something and still looks gorgeous
It is worth the watch and it wraps things up nicely in the end. Watch it.
I finished it up finally, and I'll give my seal of approval as well. Great show. I can see how S4 would annoy people if you watched it week to week. I actually really enjoyed it just doing a marathon over the weekend.
I watched episode 19 in the order that it aired in and I can see why my friend said to skip it and watch it as the S5 premiere. You can do it either way and it works. If you watch it during S4 it is a big "wtf..." episode, but it got me excited for S5.
I really appreciate the recommendations, I'm always on the hunt for quality sci-fi shows. Perhaps a season 1 marathon is in order for this weekend.
Anyone starting the show...just realize that it doesn't "get good" until a good ways into Season 1. I can't remember the exact turning point, but give the show some time.
Halfway through season 3 now and as an old X-files fan I also love it, though it had a rough spot at the start of s3 (that I didn't like, but from reading about it most others liked it). You should watch the first few episodes at least. The three main actors have a great chemistry together, and the supporting cast are also good. Can't actually say that I dislike (from an acting point of view) any of the recurring cast.
I liked the show but the main thing for me was Walter, and on occasion, Pacey, were the only characters I really cared about. The actors were fine, but the writing never really sold me the personalities of the characters like a Firefly or Breaking Bad seem to do so effortlessly. The show was good though, and worth a watch.
I wish this was never cancelled.
Season 3 is sweet...the "four" Olivias is an awesome idea. Olivia, Fauxlivia, Olivia turned into Fauxlivia via memory transplant, and Fauxlivia being an imposter to Oliva in our world.
Torv is such hotness.
shes lezzing out in a new HBO show next year, "Open". also Walt is going to be the show Sleepy Hollow, which is pretty good so far
Just finished watching it all. Here are my impressions.
Overall, the casting and acting were very good. All the actors had good chemistry together. Each had their own quirks and personalties and it was just fun to watch. Having to play "double" roles in S3 also showed how good they were, especially Olivia and Astrid.
As for the show itself, it started out great. The first two seasons were very, very good. I looked forward to each new episode. Season 3 was when it started to fade for me. While I thought the acting was great, I just really, really disliked Fauxlivia, and I disliked it even more how they tried to remove the real Olivia at the start. Come Season 4 and the return of a rehashed villain everyone had forgotten about (or two, depending on how you look at it) and you felt that the writers had stopped making an effort. I would never have finished Season 5 had I not been watching with someone who wanted to finish it. I really, really disliked the Observers. Well, I loved the original concept of the observers from the earlier episodes, I disliked how they were turned into superhuman villains. The whole season had that element of depression that so many cancelled shows that still have some episodes left to make have. The only way they could have fixed it was if when Peter put the Observer tech in him he had completely turned into one of them and they through some McGuffin plot element found out he would create the rest of the Observers thereby completing some time loop or whatever. But yeah, having the final episode be some sort of Dallas dream moment where all is returned to normal. Yeah, that was lame.
For those who like Sci-Fi and X-files type stuff, I'd recommend the first 2-3 series, but quit while you're ahead.
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