I read the title and immediately looked for Curt's forum name as the poster. Dissapoint.
This is where the derails will go if the voting motion passes. But in the meantime if you want to talk about game mechanics and derail some threads, do it here.
I read the title and immediately looked for Curt's forum name as the poster. Dissapoint.
The derails should come here even if it doesn't pass. Just don't make it a punishable offense. There is no reason EQ/armchair designer shit needs to be spread out over multiple threads. I enjoy a good debate on game mechanics as much as anyone, but when I click on a MMO thread I'd like that thread to actually be about the game it was created for. Even if that means those threads are only 10 pages long instead of 40.
On FoH the 38 Studios thread was pretty much just a armchair designer thread. It worked...even if the company didn't!
Make all loot droppable except for long special quests. B2P. Cash shop only sells clothes pets and mounts, but all those things available in game so that artist time isn't split, the shop is just a short cut. WoW style combat with dodging like TSW & GW2. Big ole titties on them elves. SHIP IT.
EDITTED OUT. Because I should read the fucking polls first before typing
>high level/low level interaction: As a lvl 10 at the courtyard of the castle, I should see heroic lvl 30 characters journeying in to battle the king. Sergeant Slates/Dragons reigning death from above/Hill Giants should path n00b zones. Wood elf titties need the proper amount of perk to bounce.
Only a few posts in and elf tits have been mentioned twice. I'm proud of you guys.
Implement a hardcore and/or full loot FFA PvP server for EVERY game. At worst it will act as a honeypot for retards and at best it might actually be fun.
So now you want to read about TESO or Wildstar you have to sift through page after page of unrelated shit.
World of Warcraft is the pinnacle of game design
Combat/adventuring and crafting/economy systems show up in most games, but political/nation building systems are under represented. I would love to see more of that. Letting players move borders around and conquer cities would be interesting.
Effort to build needs to be less than the effort to destroy or conquer for that to work.
I was hoping that GW2's WvW would turn into an RTS-like or Risk like game. Instead of running around plugging holes on a map all night, which is boring after you've done it a few times, I'd prefer to see some kind of territory control game, where taking a keep/camp/tower/whatever is a bigger event. I'd like to see players building walls, and other defensive points and slowly move across the map fighting.
That way, you can really work in political and economical stuff in there. If things don't change overnight every single day, you have time to really create a narrative. EVE does it, GW2 should of tried for something like that.
Why has no one ever designed a DOTA style map (with similar objectives) as an MMO battleground?
an understated ensemble that puts the "b" in subtle
Fair enough. They certainly weren't the first. But man, are those things perky.
Can we bring back motherfucking, basic-ass, this-exp-is-equal-or-better-than-solo, multiple-hour, group exp camps where we just pull and kill monsters.
I ENJOY THAT SHIT AND SO DO OTHERS. I DON'T WANT TO FEEL LIKE I'M PLAYING A SINGLE PLAYER GAME COLLECTING BEAR ASSES ANYMORE.
I could do that shit. Hire me, stat.
More go and collect more bear asses quest at preset waypoint. Those are my favorite quests
It's even more fun when it's lit up on your map so you don't even have to think or explore
Still waiting on my Pokemon + Harvest Moon hybrid MMO. No raids, no bullshit, just pure Pokemon Battles and Farming.
Bitch please, my MMO would be the greatest selling MMO OF ALL TIME.
I'd like more involved long, epic questchains for things ONLY obtainable that way. A class skill or even some kind of legendary weapon. Long ass chains that span multiple zones and levels, none of these fucking "talk to this faggot" and you complete it either. It doesn't necessarily have to be like a group/solo thing such as the AQ quest chain from WoW, but I loooved the idea of that. Quests are just so boring most of the time, I find myself only really paying attention to them when doing chains anyways.
For that to work you need long travel times and a gigantic map that would be as big as the GW2 PVE map. You also need collision detection between players.
Would love to see a post apocalyptic hard core sandbox MMO. The game world would actually be earth. I wonder if it is possible to render and entire game world using topography data from like Google Earth.
I would rather work on 4 or 5 quest chains max. Have them last multiple levels and make them feel epic. When I open a quest book and see a fuckton list of idiot chores it makes me want to puke. Which is one of the reasons why I don't play mmos much anymore.
Western MMORPG prz
Bnet - istrtedajoke#1960
steam- old gregg
Recipe for the most money anyone has ever made off anything ever.
Nintendo ID: DellyDeez
Diablo III, Overwatch, and HotS - Delly#1309
Typing this on my phone so forgive me for any mistakes I make.
An MMO if I could design it the way I wat would follow multiple game designs in one. Id have combat similar to Tera and Neverwinter, graphics like FFXIV, a general story quest line much like Old Republic, more world involving quests hidden by secrets, and an instance system that worked alot like EQ2.
Quests -- To me there are 3 kinds of quests. Level quests, which WoW is inundated with. Retrieve me 10 bea asses so I can tell you to collect 10 bear claws . There are storyline quests, these are the type that span multiple areas and levels. Then what I like to call epic quests, similar to fiery avenger from EQ.
Level quests would be easily identifiable by a mark above their head and would allow people who want to solo play a good way to level. These would I include fedex quests to new areas, collection quests, to tradeskill orders and such. General run of the mill quests.
Storyline quests would be much more akin to class quests and such like from old republic. Where it puts you into the story and gives you choices you can choose. Depending on type of server can make you go from evil to neutral, good to neutral, and vice versa. This would also affect your faction with other cities much like it did in EQ. These would be marked as well. They would also play into affect for pvp. Which I will get into later.
Now here is the real game changer. There are epic quests. Granted that with the flow of information now a days its hard to keep things secret. Quests would be encoded so as not to be able to be datamined. As well as all voice overs and such, heres why. They are hidden within the game and not accessible by mearly clicking them. Nor would they have the marks above their head. You would have to talk to them via hail, just like original EQ. Items they need would be vaguely marked like in EQ, as well as the possibility of just being a regular nobody that just wanted to talk. Some would only talk to certain classes and such. These quests would range from epic level weapons to something as great as the ahn qiraj gate opening. It would reward exploration and knowledge gathering.
Instances -- instances would work alot like EQ2 and DDO. You would have easy to get to dungeons that are readily available. Then youd have the harder 5 man instances located inside living dungeons. Where youd find groups pulling mobs and camping named creatures for great loot. Instances outsode would be rated for solo, mid size, to 5 man groups. Inside dungeons it would be 5 man only. Instances outside would have good loot, dungeon instance would be better, while rare named spawns outside would have the best. Yeah people would bitch but there would be a good community built.
Community -- There would be no auction House. I would bring back the original bazaar that eq created, only more like an actual market spanning a larger area. With an option to spend more to gain access to a nicer shop to sell your wares instead of just a rug on the floor.
The neutral city will be the largest hub and where most people hang out. Id have a wall board of jobs people can post as well as orders that have been placed for smithed goods and dropped items. I would have an assassins guild that gave out bounties for other players to take and to set. People would be able to attack their bounties in city and in the world at large. They would receive a notice that they have been marked but no indication how many assassins havetaken the job or who set it up.
Each city would have player housing following the aesthetics of the city. Guilds would have access to guild halls and beating raids and instances would update a guild board of your kills in full guild groups. Also decorated like player housing.
PVP -- This is always what most people want to be good. Assassin contracts as stated above. People in your guild and friends list wouldnt be able to take contracts on you, so you cant exploit it. You can go to the guild and find out if you do have a contract on you though and for how much. They can create a contract on you and make one on yourself, if you feel like a challenge.
Full open world pvp on some servers. Even within cities, except in the bazaar area. You might have to deal with guards but thats why I also have back alleys and shady dealers. If I could make a seperate rules server, which should be easy, everything would be tradeable except for certain items, and everything would have limited durability. Say if you use a regular green weapon from WoW, a blacksmith in any city can repair it. A blue item could get some durability back. Epics would require perhaps a lost blacksmith found by a raid to repair. Everything would be lootable, drop rates increased by 4x the amount on regular servers, xp increased as well. Raids would be up more often, rare woeld spawns, and some instances and all access raids like EQ.
An arena thats similar to EQ where its ffa pvp. No WoW type arena games or pvp centered armors. Different rulesets for pvp for skills and magic. Much easier to balance.
Political systems would be in. Good, evil, and neutral. If you manage to kill a faction leader of one of the races you can levy a tax on the losers, as well as attack their towns freely for a certain number of days. So things in shops are more expensive, and the funds go towards the winning factions ability to fortify their lands and holdings.
Which brings us to the next part. Each faction/race would have a leader and a council chosen to represent them. Players who are chosen by their peers. Not sure how that would work in game but it would be fun. There would be fortifications built across the land as well as castles and keeps that can be sieged. A map following the battlelines would be available to all. Portals would also be setup to allow fast transport to hotspot sieges in home cities.
Leaderboards would be setup that followed kill counts, victories, and other information as well.
Pvp would be for all levels. While a lvl 20 may not be able to kill a lvl 50 per say. He could through skill alone manage to dodge his attacks and keep him occupied till help arrives.
Raids and endgame -- ive described pvp above so I wont go into that here. End game raiding would be 20 man. It would again consist of instances and live dungeons. Instances would have high level gear arranged for people who like to raid on a set schedule . The best gear and where most of the legendary quests would be to end is in the live dungeon raids. This is where youd have to fight off other raids, or be better than them. Probably having to fight off griefers as well as people looking to pvp. Raid zones would be pvp areas. Guild groups vs guild groups. Defeated gankers would have possibility of dropping raid gear if youve downed a boss or are actually fighting a boss. Bosses would drop non armor pieces, just rings, trinkets, and weapons and the like. Some stuff would be guild bound and left with the guild or till the guild disbanded.
I would have a combination of well scripted bosses and tank and spank fights. Open to ideas for this.
Some of this stuff applies to just pvp servers and some to regular servers. Anyone can group with anyone except for the pvp type servers. Im sure im missing some good details but im too tired to remember them at the moment, but thats what id like in an mmo nowadays. Something that brought back the community and exploration and a small bit of wonder. Also the world would be huge. Id have airships you could buy, definately airships.
Forgot to add in combat.
Combat -- Tera style action combat. With such innovations among certain classes having special abilities while attacking from the rear like rogue classes. Mages would deal more damage up closer than farther away. Healers could target in both traditional and action varieties. Bosses would have abilities that would need to be countered or dodged depending on who it is. Raid bosses would need counters while regularr instance bosses would be both dodgable and counterable.
Seperate rule sets for pvp and pve to make balancing easier.
Auto graphics tuning so that combat farther away isnt as detailed as something closer to you allowing larger scale battles. As well as the use of siege machines for more heavily fortified bases.
Group synergy would play along as well like it does in FF games allowing combo moves the whole group can do for better damage if they work well together. While possible in pvp, I am not sure how I could make it work yet. Gear would be important but not the end all be all. Someone skilled enough should be able to take out someone who is better geared but not as skilled. But there shouldnt be that big of a gap. Thats about it for tonight.
About quests, I think those should be taken back to being meaningful. Fetching 5 bear asses isnt a quest. EQ epics were great quests (shitty mechanics notwithstanding, dont derail this sean!) because they required effort and rewarded something meaningful that you didnt replace at the next hub. EVE Online has a few epic story arcs that are similar if you care about their lore, but since EVEs PvE isnt exactly stellar they usually go unmentioned. But the idea itself has been picked up in several places including early WoW and I believe again in Pandaria (although modern WoW caters too much to the "everyone gets a prize" model to make them stand out). I also dont get why farmer joe doesnt want a second set of 5 bear asses while they are obviously still all over his pumpkin patch and eating his children. Its just silly. Imo games need to seperate quests and the other stuff, lets call it tasks (repeatable drudgery like fedex duties, killing wildlife or the local undead, etc... the usual leveling quests of WoW and its ilk).
Quests should be long, can only be done once per character, require some effort, have good story and attention to detail, and special and/or lasting reward like special skills or augments, special faction/reputation or access to certain vendors, unique animations for your abilities, item skins). Theres really so much you can do beyond a weapon with a different skin that has 10 strength more then the current-gen top gear.
Then make tasks repeatable where it makes sense or daily where it doesnt (take the gating concept of specific dailies simply for rep gain to the backyard and shoot it in the head). For tasks, remove the need to talk to the dude first if it makes sense or keep each task you've done once in some kind of log so you dont need to pick it back up before you go out killing the undead for farmer joe (kinda like GW2 hears, just keep them repeatable).
Last edited by Mr Creed; 04-14-2013 at 07:39 AM.
As stated. Optional full loot servers.
A non instanced MMO like UO with today's technology and diablo's combat. TAKE MY VIRGINITY AND MONEY.
I want a game that actually uses first person perspective as the only POV, no more third person bullshit.
not really a mmo problem.. but this shit needs to stop.
LMAO. Fuuuucckk. This is me all the fucken time. I literally fight with myself "I better go back I might miss something awesome" "FUCKEN HELL it's just shitty ammo. I swear to god I'm not going back next time" The cycle continues.
Why is WoW an entertainment rather than a game? It's evident at all points: there is ONE WAY to do stuff. All others solutions are discouraged, if not outright blocked. Any alternative strategies to defeat a boss is prompty nerfed or fixed. The menial task giver will not talk to you until you have done the required steps. From the moment you step into the game, you are shown where you'll get experience and levels. At every point, you're shown what to do, where to do it, and how. The entire World of Warcraft is, let's say it, a movie-you-are-the-hero - except most scenes have only one continuation.
A game would probably set up a problem ("how do I kill King Tormax"), place a number of possible tools, and let you find one solution (among many) to the problem. In a better world, the designers would derive satisfaction from seeing all the myriad ways people achieve their objectives (get the loot), and only step up when there's obviously a bug that trivializes the problem by providing a "solution" that isn't really one.
Thoughts on the graphic.
(note, I found that in reference to diablo3)
This is a design problem in many games. Not just corridor shooters.
Diablo3 as mentioned, torchlight as well.
Its interesting I think. D3 and tl1/2 have "better" procedurally generated maps then PoE. However, PoE is kindof more fun. Largely I think because its maps ARE more simple, and then less likely to be corridors.
corridors and linearity can be a problem. yes, and thats talked about more then enough.
But the real problem here is deeper. It seems like the corridors themselves are being made by retards.
Lets look at another game that is mostly linear. (but not totally)
Super mario brothers.
When doing a level. the level is almost entirely linear. Yet it DOES have side paths. Go down a pipe, and you have a side path.
But you dont fucking backtrack, a pipe takes you right back to the main level. Sometimes ahead, sometimes same location. These games with linear paths. and forks need to be doing this.
the second point, is make the side path blatantly obvious. Again, you know a pipe in mario is a side path. There is no, should I go right or left? Oh, I should have went left. That is a huge design flaw.
visual queues should be used to mark the right and wrong way. Honestly you will see this in good long term ips. Mario, megaman, etc. Even as the platformers opened up, good design let you know right path, and secret path, in mario world, etc.
Things you just dont see in Mass effect, etc.
Think this trying to organize threads stuff might be going a little too far... kinda just gotta let people blab and the ignore button is there for a reason .
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