Once I can print out decent quality tools (wrenchs, screwdrivers, sockets, etc) I'll pick me up one of them printers.
Anyone toying with 3d Printing?
What's good? What's affordable? What's shit?
Also some reads:
If you ask me, it would be smart to learn ze autocad asap
Once I can print out decent quality tools (wrenchs, screwdrivers, sockets, etc) I'll pick me up one of them printers.
Until I saw this post I had no idea this shit even existed. Mind = blown. This is some Jetsons type shit right here.
Why couldn't I, an enterprising young lad - purchase a "cheap" 3d printer and print out little Warhammer figurines and flip them on Ebay for cheaper than the sell in store? I read those articles, doesn't appear to be copyright infringement or anything. What am I missing? Is the plastic you feed the printer expensive or something? Really interesting stuff.
We have been 3d printing shit in automotive for the better part of 20 yrs now. We use it mostly for prototype parts since the materials you print with are not robust, verry brittle.Its a very simple concept really, a laser melts powdered plastic into a solid milimeter by milimeter through the use of a cad model, or some scan. We use these for general fit and finish checks, installation, clearance checks etc. We actually build entire instrument panels out of those parts. Its expensive but tons cheaper than what we used to do, make actual limited run prototype tools to make the parts. Im sure this will advance like all tools do but its nothing really new and it has very little use outside of prototype for now. Il see if I can snap a picture of a IP were building right now for the new 2015 Maxima.
Last edited by mkopec; 03-28-2013 at 02:25 AM.
I see a lot of this stuff at work. Some current and former employees got together with a few others and opened a maker space (https://synshop.org/SYN Shop) downtown. Best analogy I've ready about how to explain it to people is that it's like having a gym membership your brain. Has 3D printers, laser cutters and other equipment, etc.
We've had a couple of in house sessions (we call them Lunch N' Learns) demonstrating 3d printing stuff too.
Friend just laser etched the SYN Shop logo into his macbook shell: https://twitter.com/dharden/status/314952889741225985
Looking forward to this tech getting cheaper. It's had my mind racing a few times... from "reprinting" new and lost board game pieces to other random little needs around the house.
You can already download tech/printing specs for a lot of items on the pirate bay.
I'm just not convinced there are many plasticish things I want that would justify purchasing a printer.
always find cool stuff browsing the printer section lol.
Here's the printing spec for an AR-15 lower receiver. I wonder how that works in plastic though lol.
Last edited by Flunklesnarkin; 03-28-2013 at 12:58 PM.
It does not. I can tell you first hand that the plastic that comes out is crap. Its very brittle and does not have any structural properties of other applicable plastics like poly pro or ABS.
There's a lot of types of plastic you can print with now. It's not like the stereolithography shit that they did 20 years ago. When I was in engineering we got prototypes that were called "stereolithography" and that plastic was very brittle but just before I left in '09 we got one of the next generation 3D printers and sometimes the parts were good enough that I wondered why we bothered machining the metal versions.
Last edited by BrutulTM; 03-28-2013 at 01:49 PM.
You are right, I was assuming too much. SLA process can use a variety of materials...
But reading into it a bit more, the actual 3D printing is an entirely different process. Instead of fusing liquid or plastic powder, they actually deposit material. There is also another process called SLS which can even produce metal parts. But im sure this process is probably the most expensive.
I haven't watched this, and it's the same guy from Brutal's vid. Was just reminded that I'd seen it on the sidebar on Youtube a few times this week.
In more coincidence, the guy did an AMA yesterday.
The interesting thing about this technology to me is that thought it cannot produce objects with the tolerances of metal it may still be able to produce effective things within the tolerances of plastic.
The only *current* use that seems interesting to me is just being able to download plans for some stupid plastic piece that broke off your desk/chair/cabinet/whatever and make it rather than having to replace the whole item. This looks pretty amazing for creating form, but a fundamental problem to me seems like structural integrity. Metal is very carefully treated to give it structural integrity, cycles of heating & cooling and whatever the fuck they do to make it stronger. How would this problem ever be overcome by 3d printers?
I thought I read somewhere that the first 3D printed car was almost done and it was hella light
Standard Stereolithography Tolerances: +/- 0.005" for the first inch, +/- 0.002” on every inch thereafter.
In the z height (vertical), standard tolerances of +/- 0.01" for the first inch, +/- 0.002” on every inch thereafter.
Stereolithography Layer Thickness: High Resolution: 0.002” - 0.004”; Standard Resolution: 0.005” - 0.006”.
So its pretty fucking accurate.
The most accurate 5 axis mills go out another decimal point, so yeah, metal parts can be more accurate, but in an application like guns, or anything you will be using the printer for I dont think thse tolerances are needed. Its more for industrial uses like motors, engines, transmissions, etc...
Last edited by mkopec; 03-30-2013 at 03:11 AM.
I saw that Sad Keanu on the Shapeways site. I use Blender and they just put in some new stuff to make 3D printing easier, so I've been debating making a figure or something just to see how it turns out. I'll probably go through something like Shapeways rather than buying my own 3D printer though.
I'm wondering if this could be used to create molds for cast aluminum parts? Not necessarily at home but someone could start a business casting parts from user supplied/printed molds? I like to mess around with old cars and the idea of printing up some unobtainium part is quite appealing.
I know that Jay Leno has his own CNC Milling machine which is sort of the metal version of a 3D printer that he uses to build obsolete car parts. Obviously it's a little more involved than a 3D printer, but I think they are getting to the point where you can just about plug a 3D model into them and put your chunk of aluminum into it and it will do most of the machining on it's own.
CNC Plasma cutters can also be used to make just about anything out of sheet metal.
This isn't stuff you're going to have in your house, but it's definitely getting to the point where if you can make a 3D model of something, you could email it to a shop and they could build it pretty inexpensively.
Last edited by BrutulTM; 03-31-2013 at 01:27 PM.
Another CNC mill video just because. If I ever become a billionaire I will get some of these things and have them build weird shit all day just for my entertainment.
Yeah they are amazing. We have a 3 axis mill at our shop to help make fixture parts and yeah, pretty much just plug in a .igs or .step file and it sets up its own cutter paths, it even changes its own bits mid cut, they are pretty amazing these days. The one we have cost about $100K and it can pretty much cut rims out of solid billets of aluminum. The one in that video looks like a 5 axis (the bed the part is on also moves in the x and y direction.)
But lets not discount the the actual 3D models. Thats where all the man hours goes into. Some of the models we make can take months to engineer and design. Its not like you can just throw anyone on a cad station and they can produce 3D solid models of anything you want. Even if you get laser scans of items, it ends up being a point cloud which you then have to smooth out using surfacing on the CAD software. Then make a solid model with thickness from those surfaces. Yeah the cad software is getting easier to use, but still you have to put in tons of man hours to produce the models.
Last edited by mkopec; 04-01-2013 at 02:36 AM.
Roland is apparently going to be showing off a color 3d printer next month. Yeah. Color.
Last edited by BrutulTM; 04-01-2013 at 04:23 AM.
I bet someone could actually make one
We've got 3D printers all over the place here. To say they're not robust is ridiculous, because they get used for rocket parts. If the products are able to withstand the temperature fluctuations and vibrations of a rocket, I think you could say they're pretty sturdy.
Personally, I want a food printer. Can you imagine watching say, Food Network, and being able to print off whatever crap they're making? The future will be awesome.
I recently got a quote for a printer which can print with stainless steel and inconel for work...well my boss did not think it was feesible for us to jump into 3d printing for $650,000
We make Oilfield tools for well work-overs, I am hoping in the next 10 years the price comes down a bit and the materials are better suited to withstand the types of forces, tempuratues, and corrosive envioments we have to deal with.
It's important because there are *a lot* of things additive manufacturing can do that are impossible to extremely impractical for subtractive processes. Such as complex lattices, or closed designs(Where the inside of an object is a complex design, but the entire thing is one piece that is entirely closed on the outside), or really any design where you need complex innards without assembly, as opposed to hollow designs(what CNC is best at).
CNC is awesome in its own way(for anything you need fast and cheap where hollow designs work, which is most things), but additive is a complete paradigm shift away.
Is any sort of hardening process available for the 3d metal printed stuff? If I'm going to be printing up an intake manifold or control arm it needs to be just as strong as a cast/cnc milled part.
That's a good point. I don't know much about it, but it seems like deposition might make for a very weak part?
So, these things are getting pretty cheap in a hurry. I'm thinking about picking one up to familiarize myself with the technology and tool around with. I don't want to spend more than around 5-600 dollars since there's a pretty good chance I'll mess around with it for a month or two before it begins collecting dust in my workshop. With that budget in mind, I'm currently looking at the various RepRap options, the EZ3D Phoenix, or the XYZ da Vinci.
RepRap's advantage of the three seems to be the community. Since it's been around for a while, it's got a well established user base. The possible disadvantage I can see is that it appears very open source / hobbyist, as in I might have spend a lot of time tinkering to get things into working shape.
EZ3D appears to have some interesting software ideas and a pretty decent looking product, but I'm a bit leery since the entire company looks like it might just be a family. It looks to be sort of in a vaporware phase, I don't see any reviews or owner's forums popping up.
The da Vinci looks most like a commercial product in line with the Makerbot and other products currently out there. If it lives up to its claims from CES, I could see it quickly catching on and gobbling up market share. My only concern is the inkjet-printer-ish business model. It looks like they're planning on making their profit on the cartridges.
Anyone have any thoughts?
I started a company that's been working with consumer 3D printers pretty intensively for the past couple years. I've seen/tried a lot of different models and seen a number of projects succeed and fail on Kickstarter and other crowd funding sites. At this point, given your budget and the fact that you seem to have some interest in the DIY aspect of it, I would highly recommend a Printrbot (Printrbot.com). They have full kits available in your price range which you can assemble yourself. This removes a lot of the uncertainty of procuring parts for your own Reprap, but still gives you the opportunity to build the whole thing yourself. The assembled printers perform reasonably well and they have a decent sized community should you run into any trouble.
There is probably a point at which the technology become cheap and widespread enough that it reaches critical mass and everyone wants one. I can see how this would become a standard household appliance where you would download plans for something you want then go to your local 3d parts print store (kinkos 3d) and pick up the pre numbered packages you need then load them up at home and go.
It's not a fast process (hopefully it gets faster) but if I broke a spatula I'd be happy to queue a new one up over night. Kids broke my dishes? Create a dozen funny kids plates. Create a new sprinkler since I seem to break them every fall/spring. Lost two pieces of my matching Tupperware set? No problem. I wonder if there are any decent looking picture frames it could print. Could use a dozen of those too.
There is all sorts of potential and though a 3d printer couldn't do everything there might be workarounds to combining printed objects with some pre made multiuse objects to get around that limitation.
MWS Natural "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving black people approaches 1."
Megblocks might be in trouble though=P
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