Mines damage is a spell so it doesn't trigger hardened shields. Seems kind of stupid to just walk an Immortal infront of your army and absorb 11 mine shots before death.
The general thread is great for discussing events and general news, but I think one more thread for strategy and ladder stories wouldn't hurt.
Some thoughts on laddering in HotS:
1)Time to redo your hotkeys, any protoss who hotkeys Motherhip core with his army while using Hts or sentries is dumb. You will probably need an extra hotkey or 2, try rebinding control group 9 and 0 to something closer.
2)Ideally you want to tailor your build to the map, which means you need like 3 builds with some wiggle room for more greed.
3)Lategame you need 3-4 robos and stargates for all the tech switches thrown at you. Don't forget air attack upgrades vs mech and in PvZ when you are moving into lategame.
4)There's really no excuse to not have DT shrine in midgame and lategame anymore.
5)Want easy wins in PvP ? DT rush, just don't take ultrafast double gas, standard timing at 15/19 is more than enough. Some people didn't get the memo yet though, so just get forge or robo so you have detection in time when you scout double gas and collect free points.
6)Mine drop comes roughly at 7:30.
7)Hardened shields don't work vs mines, I really hope it's a bug, not a feature.
8)You don't have to FFE every PvZ, double zealot, MsC, and stalker push seems rather decent and you should be able to get a queen kill or force a spine crawler or 2. Be wary of losing the core and speedling counterattack, finish your wall and add a cannon before building the nexus if necessary.
9)Mothership core doesn't outdps building hatchery, but softening it up is sometimes enough if there are DTs coming.
10)If you feel like the zerg doesn't have enough stuff, it's mutas.
11)I don't care if he is pushing you with swarm hosts, it's just delayed mutas.
12)Double stargate phoenix is viable response to Mutas, just make sure you don't lose many probes with stalkers before you have at least 5 out.
13)7gate1/1+mothership core is stupidly strong in PvZ, unless it's one of the big maps – WW, Akilon. FF off his third, kill it and recall back. Then go for round 2 ! Just don§t do it from FFE, at least not without successful pressure that delazs the zerg.
14)When you push out on Planet S, send a probe the other way around the center, it will save you many basetrades.
15)8gate +1 zealot/archon off 2 base works wonders against any idiot trying to mass VRs on 2 bases, because you can just laugh at them and kill his expansion, sometimes even main. If they wall off their expansion, you are fucked though. Just make sure to have HT or 2 to feedback oracles and sometimes you even get to snipe the MsC before it casts anything.
16)Tempest+HT+Immortal/Cannons/Zealots/Stalkers is viable lategame turtle composition for PvZ, get fancy with oracles for spotting the army and enjoy slowly crushing the zergs' soul. Karma is a bitch!
17)Mass Void Rays are really retarded in PvP, to save yourself from becoming dumb, do the build mentioned above, because colossi are dead and buried.
Mines damage is a spell so it doesn't trigger hardened shields. Seems kind of stupid to just walk an Immortal infront of your army and absorb 11 mine shots before death.
You give the mine too much credit it only has a range of 5 ^^
What's the Zerg metagame at the moment? I think when games start to get into T2+ I start to get a little lost on what I should be focusing on. I know Brood Lords/Infestors were big in WOL but I'm not sure for HotS.
What matchup? They use different units for different matchups.
ZvZ ? Mutas all day every day with some lings to deny expansions when the mutas are out of position. Theoretically you can switch to infestors and kill the whole ball in a few fungals, but it's quite risky, normally it's better to just hope you have bigger ball/better upgrades.
PvZ is weird, it feels like almost anything is viable given you scout enough and take decent engagements, hydras really opened up a lot of space for the zerg. Broodlords are nice, but they get vaporized by tempests, the new ultras rape face on the ground. Swarm hosts are definitely doable, ran into this funky 2 base mass queen/swarm host nydus push, which looked pretty strong if you don't go straight for colo and counterattack. Definitely the most improved matchup, because the zerg needs to get more aggressive now, since it's the protoss who has harder counters.
TvZ no clue, seems like not much has changed, except that hydras are actually viable.
I'm so bad I meant all races.. haha.
TvZ is basically speedling and get OV speed rather quickly so you can see what the Terran is doing. In general you want to take Lair around 7:30-8:00 and once it pops get up Bane speed and a Spire. Make some mutas to pin the Terran down while tossing down a Pit and getting a handful of Infestors. From there the most desirable t3 force is Ling/Infestor/Ultra but you need to be very careful to keep your Infestors alive unlike WoL where you could be a bit careless with them. You won't have enough gas to keep up your Ultra + Bane production if you start headbutting Terran bio.
Obviously that changes if you're going against Mech where you basically go Roach/Hydra/Viper and abuse the fuck out of blinding cloud making Siege Tanks very expensive paper weights.
I really need to start forcing myself to use the Vipers and even the Swarm Host a bit more, definitely missing out. Maybe I'll use them in some 4v4 where literally nothing matters
Any tips to raise your APM? I don't mean just spamming shit for the sake of raising APM, but to actually better myself.
Right now I usually average about 130 but if it's a very long game it will go down quite a bit.
I've actually been surprising myself in that mysteriously on one game I just went apeshit and crushed my opponent. Just fucking around in 4v4 I went from Bronze rank 2 to Gold rank 2 in one game as well.
Your APM will generally go up naturally once you know what to do in various situations. Unless your brain is lining up tasks faster than your hands can execute there isn't much to improve on outside of playing the game.
1)Blizzard APM is bullshit, get SC2 gears for real numbers, I've been getting 200+ from Blizzard, while SC2Gears shows 120, which is what I usually had in WoL.
2)Hotkey everything, you never want to click on stuff
3)Avoid scrolling the screen as much as possible, moving your camera through minimap is generally faster
4)Hotkey your army over multiple hotkeys to avoid 1a syndrome
5)Try playing another race, I have 120 when playing toss, but it mysteriously jumps to 175 when playing zerg and due to all the spam you might carry something over to your original race.
6)Play with more planned out builds, thinking on the fly is good, but it usually comes at the price of speed.
Ultimately it's going to be battle with your own laziness, why bother with more clicking when you can win just fine the way you have been playing until now...
I actually saw Last at MLG used a ton of screen scrolling. I was kind of shocked.
Should also note APM and efficiency of motion go hand in hand. Something I'm trying to break myself of is I just hit my CC hotkey to try and return to base. But that breaks when when I have more than one CC. So I just start pecking at the minimap to return to base. Terrible. So now I just try and camera bind f2 to my main for when I need to jump there to add production/depots. It allows me get this task done much quicker to return to doing other things -- which leads to a higher APM.
Last edited by Tenks; 03-20-2013 at 03:00 PM.
Hotkeying your first 4-5 bases should be a no-brainer, I threw away the F2 for selecting your army, so I bind those to F2-F5/6, F1 for workers stayed, but I rarely need it though.
The big thing I'm trying to get used to is have to rotate units in hotkeys, basically to adjust my hotkeys before big battle and so on, because having it that way when you are constantly adding units/tech is a pain in the butt. Also focusing more on 200/200 battles, like revelation iwth oracles, properly targetting shit with tempests and so on. I actually found out that I can keep up with stuff using my keyboard, which is possibly why my APM jumps up while playing zerg, but my mouse hand is really slow, might get a lighter mouse in the future.
Do you shift units into the hotkeys? Like I keep all my production on 5 so when I add stuff I just select my new stuff and shift+5 to add that production. Same deal with units. If my bio cycle finishes I just box those units and shift+2 them into that hotkey. I generally try to limit the number of things that require active abilities to one per hotkey. So my bio (stim) is on one hotkey then Ghosts are on a completely separate hotkey. My general setup (obv doesn't help Toss) is:
3 Ghosts (tvp) Tanks/mines (tvz) -- Early game scout
7 Upgrade facilities (ebay+armory sometimes tech lab)
8 Depot production (bound to space)
9 Drops (bound to ~)
0 Drops 2 (bound to mouse4)
I only use 3 camera binds.
F3 nat (if I'm 2rax a TvZ this gets bound to their nat)
Last edited by Tenks; 03-20-2013 at 04:39 PM.
Yeah, you totally need to do that. Limiting yourself to single spell per group is pretty much impossible unless you are just doing like zealot/archon or something like that. To give an idea, when I had Colossus/gateway army in PvT, Stalkers got their own group to quickly focus vikings, however if there are HTs and tempests/harass units, there's simply no space. I need warpgates and other production separate though, because I need to quickly to warpgates for chronoboost when I'm doing a timing. That reminds me, I need to start hotkeying my reinforcing pylon...
I thought generally Toss will camera bind their pylon simply because there aren't enough control groups. Would also make it more efficient since you don't have to double tap to center.
Also it is hard to get your muscle memory down but I think if you hit ctrl then issue a command only the selected group of units follows that command. So like if you had your Zealot/Stalker/Archon on one hotkey and you a-moved with that then tabbed to the Stalkers to blink and did a ctrl+a queue on the vikings only the stalkers would follow that command. It is something I'm trying to get down mainly for TvZ where often times I want my marines to be the only ones kiting backwards against ling/bling and I want my marauders to stay put.
I think it only works due to the attack command following something only a part of your group can do. I might be wrong though and then I just learned something new.
There aren't enough control groups and camera keys by default, at least not without doing the awkward jump with my hand, so I should definitely tinker with my hotkeys a bit more, but I'm too used to what I have right now.
I'm fairly confident there is some way of issuing commands only to the tab selected. If it is ctrl or not I'm not quite as sure.
If I hotkey all of my queens to a single button, will issuing an inject larva make the nearest queen inject to whatever hatchery I choose?
I am going to be the most badass bronze player in the history of bronze players
I believe most Zerg players these days just backspace around their bases and box the queen and inject. I believe most people stopped doing the hotkey queens + backspace inject method.
Actually I think they just use camera binds to hop to bases and box a queen. They found out you don't really need to perfectly inject all 5 your bases at all points in time.
Last edited by Tenks; 03-20-2013 at 06:55 PM.
That's how I do it now, wasn't sure if there was a better way. I am pretty good at my larvae timing. It's ingrained in my skull.
Every Protoss on the ladder seems to think they're MC
Call me life. I use ling/bane against widow mines like a boss
Anyone figure out how to issue commands to only tabbed units. Also I just ordered a corsair mouse. Ill tell you how it works out
So about TvT.
We can all safely say the Gasless expand is a dead build. Sure it is possible to get away with it but very, very risky to perform. Since that is what I always did in WoL I came up with a build that I started doing after the free siege mode was introduced in the beta.
*If I scout that the opponent is probably going Reaper the build changes just a very touch. If I see Reaper I get a second marine out.
Reactor Rax -> Constant marine
Factory -> Tech -> Tank
Push @ first tank
Rally all structure to opponent natural
You will float a bit of cash after putting down your factory so try and overmake some depots. You really need to constantly be making those even if you don't "need" them at one point in time. 2 food from your rax, 3 from your fact and 2 from your port eats up supply fast. There will also be times you need to cut SCV production for a few seconds to renew your marine cycles. I don't have the timings for those down but you can fairly easily see if you can afford it or not. The main goal is to always be producing attacking units since you need your initial push to succeed or you'll probably be very far behind. When you first push out it will conflict with your depot timing (generally depots win out over marine production) but you want your marines to win out this time. You really want those extra two. Every last man counts on the first push. So you'll take a minor supply block so stop SCV production for a bit to free up supply.
You will have enough money to add a second tank. Do that before using the Starport. Once you have the money make a Viking and don't stop making those until you get 3. Once you get 3 consider adding a reactor unless he has also started Viking production. If so keep making Vikings.
Basically you just tank contain from this point. The entire goal is to secure your natural before he secures his natural. Often times they'll have siege available but you will have the overwhelming numbers and vikings to control the space. If you can break the ramp then break it. If he has 2+ tanks don't attempt. Just set up a hard contain. Get your marines in bunkers (generally behind your tanks so his tanks can't get free shots on them) and consider a turret.
The big heel of this build is if the opponent went fast cloak banshee. Generally the best idea for this is to abandon his natural and immediately throw down an ebay. He won't have the forces to hold his natural so with your scout SCV (who is probably just hanging out at a tower) build a turret at his natural secured by your forces. At this point you can't really threaten his main but you can still turret/bunker his natural while you double expand. Tech your port and get a Raven out then switch your Rax with Port to make up 4 more vikings as your anti-banshee force to keep your main safe while getting stim out and making another rax to get a reactor for marine production.
That is what I do because I'm a marine/tank TvT player. But honestly you have no investment in bio if you prefer to go the mech route. You can also cut out tank production if you wish to go into pure bio.
Last edited by Tenks; 03-24-2013 at 07:27 PM.
I'm scouting after supply depot again with all the rampant cheese. If you scout after rax and they are going 8/8/8 the first reaper is going to be in your base by the time you get over there. And unless you get miracle marine placement reaper kills marine and it snowballs from there if you haven't scouted it in time.
The best way to counter 888 is to simply assign 3 SCV to auto-repair duty. With 3 SCV repairing the reaper can't actually kill any of them. Rally your marines into the middle of your SCV line so he can't hit them (unless he wants to get trapped by a citizen's arrest) and wait for a few then kill him. I'm actually considering against 888 if I'd just make a rax in/outside the opponent's base with my scout SCV and bunker his main.
I'll have to try the auto repair thing out, thanks. Still, I like to scout after depot. I find I can get a better reading of my opponent knowing exactly when they took gas and in my league (platinum) there really is no reason not to.
What time do you usually push out with your first tank?
I don't know the in-game time but it is right after it pops out. I can post some replays when I get home from work today. It isn't exactly a siege tank rush but it comes out about as fast as you'd reasonably want it. If I put down my fact before reactor I'd feel I'd have too few marines to protect the tank.
I'm still battling over if walling in TvP is a good idea or not still. I'm still doing it but mostly out of instinct but I still feel if I don't wall in I'd have no way of really stopping 1 zealot 1 stalker 1 MSC push. But then I get the MSC and Stalker shooting at my depot until my mines come out and my reactor is sometimes exposed.
Zap do most Terrans you run into still wall off?
Been playing some 4v4 randoms to build up my APM. Consistently the best player in terms of numbers/graphs whether we lose or not.. still not "seeing" an improvement in my APM as far as numbers go but I know for sure I have improved. I'm gonna grab that sc gears or whatever program.
Here are some reps again with various level of execution. I'm still running into problems making enough SCVs which I really need to correct. Not sure why my brain decides to stop making them once I get like 48.
In the vs banshee game I dropped right when the action started. I'm pretty sure I was in a really commanding position but the game could have gone either way.
If you're in bronze/silver league I don't see a reason not to wall off. It'll save you many games against cheese. Cheese which you may not yet know how to scout.
I don't know a lot about hots timings so I couldn't tell you exactly how to react to suspecting/seeing your protoss opponent go zeal/stalk/msc, but I can assure you it can be scouted and you'll take 0 damage from it when scouted properly.
If we have any protoss players in here maybe they can tell us telltale signs of the build and what time it hits. I'm really curious myself as I haven't seen anyone use it against me before.
I'm high diamond/low master not bronze/silver -____-
I'm well aware of what it looks like when they'll push. Mostly getting zealot before stalker off 2gas. It isn't like the build is cloaked the issue is defending it in a reasonable manner and then possibly losing a supply depot. I'm just wondering if I shouldn't wall and build a bunker at my front if he gets zealot before stalker. But I'd be concerned with the bunker slowing my build down. I'll need to check and see what Innovation did at MLG.
I fail at avatars, I thought noodle asked the question to wall in or not.
But as it applies to you; according to your build order, getting a reactor on your lone rax after only 1 or 2 marines and going straight to factory is certainly a bit risky. Sounds like if you know its coming you need to see if constant marine production can hold it off and/or get a 2nd barracks. Or even possibly a tech lab and marauder. The marauder can kill the zealot and stalker effectively which are doing the most dps and will have too many hp to be killed by the momma ship core.
Last edited by mures; 03-26-2013 at 12:09 AM.
Marauder won't work it would leave me open to way too many gateway focused attacks. The add-on on the rax really has to be a reactor. But I think you're right behind just 2 marines it is too risky to not wall in. I just find the MSC assaulting my front depot an annoyance. Although generally I can shoo it away before it actually destroys it.
I generally don't open reaper in TvP simply because I require those mines really as quickly as I can get them. From watching most streams I don't think Terrans are too big on reapers in the matchup.
While that may be true you can still imply a ton of knowledge by the time the Stalker comes out in TvP to know how you need to proceed for the immediate future of the game. Reapers are nice in TvT and TvZ where what you see before your SCV scout gets pushed out only tells you what you need to know for only a very little window of time I feel when worker scouting Protoss I can know pretty much what I have to do for a lot longer a time. It also probably helps that in TvP my production structures are always going to be the same regardless it just matters what comes out of them and in what order I get them.
What I do really like in TvP with a Reaper is scouting when the Toss leaves his base since that is a massive tell on what the Toss has in mind. Since you can't easily do that with an SCV or a Marine against someone who is active with a Stalker.
I need to remember to make a lone reaper for scouting, the time I did it gave me a money scout that won me the game.
Two questions, mostly for Tenks. What the hell is an 8/8/8 and how did it get it's name?
Also, are you familiar with this build that fast expands and goes straight to Ravens, and if so, what's your opinion on it? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZdmBmj1U_8
8/8/8 Is a reaper rush all-in build, generally proxied, but non proxied can also be nasty if not scouted properly. You build supply depot/barracks/refinery on 8 supply, hence 8/8/8. First reaper should pop out around 3:15.
To hold it, it is important you do not lose your first marine, wait until the second comes out then engage the lone reaper along with a couple of scvs. Remember your opponent is only going to be mining with 6-8 scvs so its perfectly fine to pull a few scvs.
Last edited by mures; 03-27-2013 at 08:31 PM.
You'll find in SC2 there are a variety of ways you can play and be relatively successful. However there will always be the "right" way to play as well and that is the way that can lead to the most success. Can massing Ravens be good? Yes. Is it difficult to counter? Yes. What you need to do is find a playstyle that works for you and stick with it. I myself constantly get caught in the absolute latest bleeding edge Korean metagame and it makes my play suffer. I don't have enough time to play to constantly switch around my playstyle. I have a single playstyle in each matchup and I work on just getting good at that. So if PF+Raven makes sense to you and you are successful then go with it. Personally I wouldn't do it because it seems really gimmicky and if it is "the best" build it will get nerfed because Blizzard doesn't want mass Ravens. So what happens if you've practiced this build for 3 months and now all of a sudden it doesn't work because of a nerf? You're fucked. You basically wasted a ton of time instead of just playing the "right" way and that is going bio, bio/tank or mech.
Just watched the video; gimmicky would be a good term describing that build. Sure you can have success with it, but its largely because your opponent has no clue wtf is going on so they don't know how to react to it. The guy going pf/raven doesn't get his first raven until after 11m and his main is protected by a couple of marines and turrets along the outside of his base. If the build became popular and you saw a pf at your opponent's natural that early ppl would learn to do a quick bio tank push against it or they could medivac boost past the turrets and drop in the main which is undefended; whichever it is, just as long as you don't let them get that composition and you don't throw units away to a pf.
I don't mean to take away from how you approach the game, I understand it completely. I've just reached the point in life where I don't have the time and energy to devote to playing games on the bleeding edge.
I had the luxury of watching Sterling's stream for a few hours yesterday. Refined my TvZ yet again.
Basically the idea is to get 1 Reaper out for initial map control prior to Hellions. Then you constantly make Hellions to always threaten the Zerg. You then push with +1/+1, marines and 2 medivacs. The BO is something like:
CC (on low ground)
2x Marines (from reactor)
Bunker @ Natural
Factory <=> Barracks -> Tech
*If the Zerg is researching speed (more than likely he is) wait for 4 Hellions to move out*
(Constantly produce Hellions ... get to like 8 at max though)
+2 Barracks -> Reactors
+2 Ebay -> +1/+1
(CB Shields somewhere around here)
Port <=> Factory -> Reactor
From there your push should contain like 6 or so Hellions and 20 something marines and 2 medivacs. It is a pretty intense push for Zerg. The purpose of your Reaper is to possibly pick off a Drone and figuring out gas timings and to scout a possible Roach den. If he is making Roaches your tech-lab Rax should move into Marauder production, add another Gas and make Widows instead of Hellion. However I'd suggest you only do that if you see scary Roach numbers. Like if he makes 7. If he only makes 3 to scare away your Hellion don't alter the build too much. Consider just another Bunker.
Last edited by Tenks; 03-29-2013 at 01:56 PM.
Still a lot to learn about hots, the other night I was going 1rax fe into bio widow mine and it gets countered hard by sling/bling muta (speedlings just cause widow mines to blow up your marines before you can build up enough numbers), which everyone is trying to imitate's life's mlg success. At the end of the night I knew I was going to have to go for an early tank contain or hellions, going to give this build a shot.
I don't know about you but at least 50% of my TvZ games feature some kind of 2base bane bust. If a build doesn't protect against that (personally I feel 1rax FE right into BioMine is bad against it) then I junk the build. Having 6-8 Hellions out completely dismantles, or should I say completely dissuades, the attack. I've always liked having those Hellions out but I've always had some issues transitioning into a decent mid-game push. Probably because I was stuck on the 3cc Hellion/Banshee build from WoL. I also love builds that focus around getting +3/+3 on bio ASAP. With speed medivacs 3/3 marines are so incredibly powerful.
So I'm a self-admitted piece of shit at this game. In order to get a bit better I played 4v4 since launch to re-familiarize myself with the game. My rank in 1v1 was like 97 Bronze. I played a few 1v1's to get the hang of it and within a few games I was back at top 8 bronze. Ran out of time to keep playing, but basically didn't lose a single game. My APM was in the mid-200's while my opponents were very low. A couple played with just a single base.. a couple I stomped into their base with 200/200 armies. 0 GG's were given to me. Hopefully when I continue playing I can get out of Bronze and perhaps into gold.
What exactly is your obsession with APM all about
Did anyone figure out how they get that number for apm in the score screen? I saw it discussed on tl awhile back and noone knew at the time. I know its not standard apm.
I'll post a few later.. even though I stomped these guys it took too long and if they were better I would've had my poop pushed in
Pretty sure the best measuring stick is league and wins and losses
Then I shant return until I have proven myself..
You can ask for help and we'll give it but we won't give advise on things that you shouldn't be concerned about such as APM. If anything that is the most worthless metric at the end of the match that the performance displays.
The the ladders lust for all-in every single game and my lust to get a reaper opener every single game things have been going pretty well for me lately ^^
The new scouting options in HOTS may be my favorite change
@Zap do you know a good time where I should suicide in my reaper for scouting info? I think it is around like 4:30'ish. I'm not sure at what time generally more gates, robo, stargate or nexus goes down exactly. Should probably review my reps to know that timing.
From watching Grubby's stream 4:30 is probably early. 1gate Nexus hits at around 4:40. So maybe like 5:30.
Last edited by Tenks; 04-05-2013 at 07:19 PM.
If I don't see a scouting scv from most terran, I expect reaper(s)
So I just got promoted to Gold league with this travesty of a match. I tried a half assed 888, then tried to transition to raven/BC, then ended up wearing him down and winning the war of attrition by denying his expansions and spamming marines. He ended up leaving the match but I think he'd have won if he'd stayed. This game is broken as hell, I don't belong in Gold.
I just got into Platinum League for 3v3 after my placement matches... I SUCK... what the fuck is going on?
I'm worried about 1v1 I won all 3 matches of my placement matches and two to go, but I know I'm not good.... what's going on here?! People Smurfing?
I don't want to be placed in a high league and get massacred
3vs3 and 4vs4 really are the noob ladders. especially in 4vs4 you'll find diamond players doing 1-base tempest "fast" techs and pretty much everyone who can execute a 6:30 timing push will eventually make it into master.
I'm not a huge fan of having to manually a-click on destructible rocks. I like it for that plate at the bottom of ramps but I queued up my marines to kill the two sets of rocks on Akilon and checked up on them minutes later to see no damage done and just chilling ><
I'm actually not sure if I love the a-click on the little plates. 9/10 when you accidentally click it the action occurs doing an attempted a-move.
Also for my Terran bros if you're opening reaper it is better to just go 12/12 instead of 12/13. Everything works out the same but your Reaper comes out faster. Only difference is your 13 SCV is delayed by a few seconds but it speeds up your first reaper significantly.
They intentionally changed it Tuesday so you have to attack command rocks. By default now right click on them means move to them.
Pretty sure lucifron lost a match by accidently right clicking rocks. I've also heard ppl complain about them with their muta control.
I've always a-clicked rocks so I didn't know they changed it.
I decided to actually play ranked. Went 3-2. Got put in Platinum. Fear gripping me. Sadness overwhelming. Four games later at least I'm Diamond. Would really like to push into Masters this season but I think my TvT and TvP is too bad at the moment.
Finally got someone to practice PvT, so far the proper answer to terran harassing seems to be returning the favor instead of taking it without lube. Order of games is Belshir - Akilon - Newkirk if you want to see some progression.
edit: added 2 more games from ranked
This game is so maddening. I wish I had the capacity to not be terrible at it.
It takes hours and hours of practice to improve and if you don't play for a month it's like you lose it all.
It is honestly quite funny how bad I play if I had to use my brain at work too much. Yesterday I had a rough day and then a massive Q&A about some various technologies so I was fried. Went home to play some SC2. I did my usual TvZ build of 12/12 reaper, reactor, factory. I didn't make my fucking factory until I had 271 gas. Then I make my 3 cc and 2ebays to crank out upgrades. I forgot to make upgrades (mainly because I forgot to make refineries) and the Zerg was 2/2 while my bio was 0/0 lol.
Worst part is the Zerg was pretty bad at drop defense so I actually hung in there for a shocking amount of time.
I've been watching Husky's Bronze League Heroes casts.. jesus I have never laughed so hard in my life.
It does nothing to help you improve, but man is that shit hilarious.
Got some decent PvT practice in, default build of 1gate expo into stargate + forge, add 2 gates, get +1 armor, get TC, then Templar archives and squeeze in +2, charge and storm at once if possible, then add 5-7 gates. 1-2 oracles out of the stargate, but I need to learn to micro them a bit better, it's too tempting to just a-move them into a mineral line, but then they will just run into a turret and take too much damage/die instantly. Best use in a defended base is to pick off SCVs building stuff and occasional marine, bonus points for spotting medivacs. If you have storm/+2 armor chargelot and he isn't pushing with bunch of hellbats, you are in a pretty good spot, just spot for that third and try not to have yours too much behind then add robo-bay+robo to start making 2 colossi at a time (they have the same build time) and start posturing for the lategame.
Biggest problem is still well executed aggression, since your defense until like 10 minute mark is pretty weak, you basically rely on MsC, so if there's stuff coming your way, cannons and earlier gateways are your friend. You will also be forced to spend gas on units instead of all that sweet tech, but you need to do that wisely, because if you overdo it, you will get roled by the next timing.
I have a new TvT build I'm really digging. Basically it is 2rax reaper.
14 Rax (I generally hide this somewhere near my base like behind my natural minerals or something just so he doesn't know for sure it's 2rax)
*You have to wait for all these and go in that order*
Rally your reapers to one another and keep pumping them. One of two things will happen. You will win outright because the opponent went like 1 Rax FE (make sure to kill the SCV making the CC just in case you don't win here and now) or eventually the opponent will get enough units to deal with your reapers. Generally if they do the popular marine -> reactor -> factory build this happens at around the time the second hellion comes out.
However what you're doing behind this is important. Since reapers are so cheap at 400 minerals you CC at the natural. At the next 400 minerals you CC in the main. Next 100 minerals you make a bunker at your natural. Once your reapers stop being effective cut them off. However you should probably have 4-5 remaining to softly contain the Terran. So that means your natural goes up before his and, generally, your third CC goes up before his natural starts. Once you cut off the reapers tech lab one rax and reactor the second. Stim asap and rally marines to the bunker. Throw down a third rax and your 2nd and 3rd gases. Factory -> Port to reactor out some medivacs to give him even more hell. However you want to play though is open to you. You can obviously mech off this by not getting stim.
Obviously this build works best on reaper friendly maps. Don't think I'd do it on a map where I can't access the main without walking up (or very near) the natural's ramp.
HoTS multiplayer is really fun right now, but it is not without it's problems. I am a Zerg player.
- ZvZ's are really boring. Who ever gets the most Muta's wins, because Hydra's are a terrible anti-air answer, being so squishy and with the hit and run ability of Muta's. Corrupter's are still a joke, like they have been since day 1 of WoL. Maybe Muta's are too good, or at least in this match up they are.
- ZvT are extremely frustrating. Zerg's lack of options to dispose of Widowmines, without absorbing hits is pretty limited... like range enhanced Hyrda's, which is mid-tier 2. Plus their mobile detection is tier 2 as well. Also, Hell-bats seem way too good for their cost at the moment too.
- ZvP is a really fun matchup. The balance of aggression to expansion is delicate and the Toss death ball will still roll over you fast if you are not prepared. Plus the Oracle and fast DT's give the Protoss some options to keep you on your toes early if you don't scout properly. I love getting the Viper in this matchup and pulling in Colossus and other high value units. I still haven't found an answer to Sky Toss, other than don't let them get it.
The Swarm Host still needs work. You have to commit to the unit as the bulk of your army to have any effectiveness at all. The tipping point is about a minimum of 6 or so, which is a 18 supply, 1200 mineral, 600 gas investment, and another 200/200 for the must-have life extension upgrade. That is too much for a slow, clumsy unit that requires an army escort and siege setup.
With Ultra's and Vipers in Tier 3, Zerg really has a great incentive to tech up now. They are insanely fun units to use.
On the test map they're experimenting with having spores do +bio to encourage spores against mass muta
So, I guess that would limit a zerg players ability to raid other zerg base mineral lines with Muta's, but that doesn't address the "must build" Speedling -> Baneling -> Muta nature of the match up, does it? Seems like a strange answer to the problem.
It would leave the door open for hydralisk/roach as a mid game composition. The issue with going hydras against muta is the mutas are just way too mobile. So the muta player will be on 3 bases and you can't defend all 3 of your bases at once with a hydralisk ball. I believe their idea is to make it so the spores would be able to defend the bases. My issue is once you get enough mutas and they can start 2 shotting spores does it really matter how strong they hit the muta?
Ok, so if you can defend your base well enough with static defense spores, they are trying to force an engagement with your hydra ball... and thus discourage going mass Mutas.
I can kind of visualize it in theory, but I still would like to see in practice. Something tells me, Muta/Lings would still win the day.
I wouldn't imagine they would. You open with some kind of roach opener and get +1/+1. Move to lair and you are morphing +1/+1 hydras immediately while researching range then off-creep speed. If your opponent goes muta then surround your third with spores while using your hydras to bounce between your main and natural. Once you have a decent roach/hydra force spore up your other bases, march to your opponent's third. Lings melt to +1 Roaches (assuming they didn't get +1 carapace) and the Hydras can take mutas on in a heads-up engagement.
It works out in my head at least. Granted that was a ton of theorycrafting which generally means the idea is shit.
Make queens do air splash, kills mass VRs and mutas.
ZvP vs air toss, the only guy I have seen solving the air toss problem was Effort vs some random guy, where he basically didn't care how many bases the toss took and whittled him down with swarm host/brood/infestor/ultra and lots of positioning. Lategame toss has like 6-7 different units and I seen the zerg trying to counter it with 3-4. Basically you always have to keep poking and proding, mostly with those free units, because if you sit on your ass, you lose. It switched and some zergs have become too used to the turtle to win ZvP they have trouble adjusting.
Like Quin said giving queens splash wouldn't really solve the problem. It would just make it so getting into muta on muta battles near your base would be better to have the queen assist. The mutas would still just magic box over the queen, kill it then ravage the fringe bases before hydras could support. Hell even with splash it wouldn't matter queen would die in 1 or 2 volleys. Who cares if all your 4HP/s 4.00 MS mutas all get hit for 20 damage in the process.
Well if they want spores to be a no muta zone they could make it so the spore does like 15+50bio. But that would be stupidly excessive.
I'm trying something a bit different out in TvZ. Lately it feels like Zergs have figured out how to mitigate most of the damage mines can inflict at least in a straight up engagement. I'm preferring the consistent and reliable damage the Hellbat is offering lately. I'm still refining the BO but it looks something like:
12/12 Reaper -> Reactor -> 2x marines
Factory @ 100g
Factory <=> Rax -> Tech
Float Rax from Tech
Rax -> Tech -> Stim
2x Rax -> Reactors
Fact <=> Open Tech Lab (from Rax previously)
Upgrade hellion transformation
Starport @ open Reactor
Push @ 8'ish Hellbats + 16'ish marines + 2 medivacs w/ 2 more medivacs rallied
My only concern is the possible all-in nature of the build. I delay my third and delay my ebays to get this strong push rolling. I figure while the push is happening I can rely upon Hellbats for defence and cut marine production to get out my 3rd CC and 2x ebays.
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