.... fuck.That $1 million gets us to the Beta in the summer of 2014 and to Release in early 2016.
I am re-starting this thread here because we can use more sandbox mmo's and I hope to see it succeed.
Pathfinder Online is based on the Pathfinder IP (Paizo publishing) and will be a sandbox MMO, for what that term is worth. It is made by some industry veterans (among them is Ryan Dancey who has been involved in growing Eve Online and knows a lot about that type of MMO) who really want to steer away from Themeparks and bring back the player. Lots of stuff to read on their website about their views on the matter.
A few facts:
They already did a succesfull Kickstarter for a Tech-demo, which they made and used to secure funding. So they have funding to make this, they have an office, Paizo at their backs for the IP and currently 10 contracted people working on it.
There is another Kickstarter going right now, goal 1 million, which they will use to speed up the development proces. Without the million, Beta will start early 2014, with the million it will start in 2013.
Beta is in fact a paid "early release" (subscription) where players will allowed access to the game in increments of 2k players I believe. When you will be allowed in is dependent on your pledge. Dancey has a theory about why they are building up the playerbase in this way, has to do with the sandbox economy I think.
Needless to say that this kickstarter and the way they go about the "beta" does raise some eyebrows too. Even so, nice to read up about, the kickstarter is going relatively well though I do not see them making the goal. I did not pledge for this kickstarter, only for the tech demo, I am kinda iffy myself on this "paid beta" which is in fact supposed to be a rather bug-free early release.
Game will have PvP, players owning settlements, NPC and player factions (the settlements), skill-system and lots of Goblins.
Last edited by Treesong; 12-29-2012 at 01:17 PM.
.... fuck.That $1 million gets us to the Beta in the summer of 2014 and to Release in early 2016.
About how the project came to be
A bit about the world and map
About dying, PvP, Bounties and Safety Interesting, there is open world PvP.
About PvE content An interesting read, imo.
About (looking for) groups, associations, settlements and Kingdoms
About player created buildings and structures
About game-time and (fast) travel
About the Economy and coin, and some explanation about Micro transactions
About Harvesting, Processing, Transporting and Crafting (and Protecting) Interesting for crafters.
A bit about Dungeons
About Player contracts Very nice read.
A bit more about player settlements
Some more about Alignment and Reputation
A bit more about combat (in large groups)
Some explanation on the timeline of development and the beta
More details about combat
Even more details about combat
About Player Alliances
And some more about why they are doing development and beta like they're doing.
Sorry if I sound like a shill, it'll bomb most likely, still I like the fresh outlook.
Last edited by Treesong; 12-09-2012 at 10:01 PM.
Old people make shitty games. The players are not the content, nor are they the story tellers. Games vaporware.
These guys just sent me an email for some reason... because I got Dragons from Piazo like 5 years ago maybe?
My name is Ryan Dancey. I'm the CEO of Goblinworks, the company that's making the Pathfinder Online MMO. Lisa asked if I could write a few words about the game for this email update and I was happy to oblige.
As you may know, my background goes deep in tabletop RPG gaming. I worked with Lisa at Wizards of the Coast on the 3rd Edition of Dungeons & Dragons, and I was responsible for creating the Open Gaming License which enabled Paizo to create the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game.
What you may not know is that after I left Wizards of the Coast, I had a chance to move into the MMO business. I worked at CCP Games from 2007 to 2010 as their Chief Marketing Officer. CCP developed and publishes EVE Online, the most successful "sandbox" style MMO, and is working on DUST514, a first-person shooter set in the EVE universe, and World of Darkness, the MMO based on the White Wolf game world featured in Vampire: The Masquerade.
After I left CCP I made a beeline to talk to Lisa about Pathfinder. I think it's an ideal property to use as the foundation of a virtual world. After about a year of detailed discussion with Lisa and the Pathfinder creative team, we formed Goblinworks to make that dream a reality.
We're setting Pathfinder Online in the River Kingdoms. In a lot of ways, the game draws inspiration from the Kingmaker Adventure Path. We're aiming at a power level similar to that featured in the early Kingmaker Adventure Path releases—approximately the power of characters between 5th and 12th level in the tabletop RPG.
You'll have the experience of entering a land that is mostly wilderness, with a few scattered areas of civilization, and a vast territory dotted with the settlements of pioneers. You'll find all sorts of adventure waiting for you in the game, including marauding bands of monstrous humanoids, mysterious ruins, and dark caverns in the earth.
This world is based almost entirely on the actions of the players. Almost every item in the game will be crafted by player characters, made from resources harvested and processed by player characters.
The game will be incredibly persistent. When you make a building, that building will remain in the world for all to see until the day it is destroyed. Players will be able to found outposts in the wilderness, add to and improve them over time as they grow into settlements, and eventually take control of the territory around those settlements.
Some characters will be classic adventuring heroes, seeking fame and fortune as they explore the world. Others will be known as master artisans, others will become titans of industry, and still others will become diplomats and spies, playing the game of thrones between settlements as they grow into kingdoms. Some characters will be highwaymen and robbers. Some will be soldiers, either committed to a settlement or as mercenaries! The possibilities for characters in Pathfinder Online are tremendous!
We're running a Kickstarter to increase the funding available to Goblinworks for the game. If you back the Kickstarter at the $35 Adventurer level you'll reserve your copy of the game at a sizable discount to the expected suggested retail price. If you back the Kickstarter at the $100 Crowdforger Pioneer level, you'll be able to participate in Early Enrollment, and have a real and lasting impact on the way the game is designed—a process we call Crowdforging.
You can find all sorts of information about the project on the Kickstarter page, or by reading the Development Blogs we publish every other week at on the Goblinworks blog.
I'll also invite you to join the conversation between the developers and the community on the messageboards.
Thanks to Lisa and all the crew at Paizo for giving us this opportunity! Have a happy and festive holiday, and my best wishes for a Happy New Year!
This is the most egregious misuse of an IP since the Shadowrun first-person shooter. The first Pathfinder (aka D&D 3.75) video game should have been a party-based RPG Baldur's Gate clone. It would have taken 1/10th of the effort/cost and catered to their target demographic.
Ryan Scott Dancey
He's been called "the Steve Jobs" of MMO Marketing.
that quote from his Bio tells you alot about him
I just keep hearing from people who pay attention to such things how Dancy is terribly toxic. This is coming from people who would like to see a Pathfinder MMO work.
I saw a presentation he did about this mmo and how he compared it to mmos of the past. Basically, theme park vrs sandbox arguments regarding success. He completely left WoW out of it and only used points that supported his argument lol.
Personally I like what they are doing. Their game can afford to be a niche game because they are keeping the development costs down. Judging by other threads on this forum, this is what we need.
That is what people who follow such things tell me.
Some hold him resposable for killing several nice CCGs and almost killing a few more, hurting the big Open d20 boom of the early 2000s and I believe he killed a big venerable gaming convention-thing as well.
But it is all gamer scuttlebutt stuff, like how MMO gamers hate Brad McQuaid or whatever. How much is real and how much is bullshit, who knows for sure, but when you see the same name showing up in bad places over and you have to wonder.
It's not scuttlebutt.
Dancey came up with this retarded idea to replace rarity with 'scarcity' in CCGs. The idea was such a colossal failure that it largely led to the failures of the Rage, Doomtown and Dune CCGs, which had some solid potential to end up as stable, lasting games, even if they didn't become the next Magic or Pokemon.
Dancey was largely responsible for the OGL and the enormous glut of d20 products that resulted in a giant bust and did a lot of damage to the industry and to game stores. He loves to take credit for all the positive aspects of the OGL, claiming that Pathfinder only exists because of him, but he likes to shift all the blame for the d20 bust onto Wizards. Convenient scapegoat since everyone always hates Wizards/Hasbro.
He joined and ended up as treasurer of the GAMA, a NPO 'dedicated to serving the tabletop game industry'. He resigned shortly thereafter when it was found that he had hacked into the email accounts of the GAMA board of directors.
He's a piece of shit who needs to be thrown the fuck out of the industry, but tabletop gaming is every bit as inbred as MMOs are, so you have fuckups like Dancey passing the blame off on other people as they continue to move on to other projects to destroy.
Yeah, I understand Doomtown CCG was really great too, I recall a lot of people upset over its loss.
GAMA (GAMMA?) started back in the late 70s early 80s and was kind of an early industry icon, it dying was a bit sad due to that. Also there were questions about potential legal issues brought against him over the email hacking business. but I guess not a lot came of that.
Goblinworks, the development team behind the upcoming Pathfinder Online MMO, has just announced that Pathfinder will be available for both Windows and Mac users. Because the team has decided to work in UNITY, there will be a minimal amount of platform-specific development. Think this is a wonderful/horrible idea that will be industry-changing/a sure sign of failure and that more people need to embrace it/scorn the very notion of it? The team is inviting feedback and questions on the Paizo forums.
This announcement is timely, as the game has almost $400,000 left to raise in the final week of its Kickstarter campaign. Perhaps a flood support from all eight Mac-only gamers will clinch the deal.
Unity, its going be bad
Bnet - istrtedajoke#1960
steam- old gregg
Alderac Entertainment Group (Holders of the old Five Rings Publishing Group Intellectual Properties; Doomtown, Rage, Legend of the Five Rings, 7th Sea, etc) really should have tried a soft relaunch when the poker craze occurred in America. Would have likely had to restrict the game to bicycle-format, but honestly, the game was profitable *when it was canceled*, so I don't see why it wouldn't be profitable in that environment as well. Unfortunately, AEG is full of incompetent backwards individuals who treat running the company like a hobby in and of itself, so meh.
So, while Ryan Dancey isn't directly responsible for killing the game, he can still take a long walk off a short pier.
Looks like the game wont make its kickstarter amount, heh.
It's their second kickstarter... Lol kind of greedy IMO.
Better to have an earlier pathfinder than a later one... also TLDR stories- I'm a 35$ donator, worth it imo
Honestly, this game seems as if its going to fall flat on its face. The team is small, old and then wants to have huge aspirations. Theyre going after a subscription model that even Blizzard has stated is a dying model. Theyre barely going to meet their kickstarter funding. Now theyre going to include dual platform support? I mean, holy shit. Ill chime in and say the ideas sound great, but this game being any meaningful addition to the genre is a pipe dream.
And dual platform support is not hard to achieve because they're going with the Unity game engine, which officially supports Windows, OS X, and even Android / iOS. So as long as they don't use any awful hacks to implement some pointless feature they should be okay. In this day in age, there really isn't muh excuse for not offering multi-platform support - especially considering the growth of the tablet market. The only thing you lose is being able to use the bleeding edge DirectX features, and I think it's fair to say that this game is not going to sell itself based on its superior graphics. As long as you make good architectural decisions, you basically get a cheap 5% bump in revenue. Even very small market MMOs like DDO and LoTRO are working on mac clients.
That being said, it seems like 1 million is a pretty lofty goal. I think part of the problem is that the donation levels that let you get automatic beta access are first come, first serve. So the first 1000 people get in the first month, while the last 1000 will probably get in only slightly before launch - basically eliminating any incentive for late comers to donate at the higher levels.
Last edited by Dudelander; 01-13-2013 at 06:50 PM.
Looks like with 925k already pledged and 8 hours to go, the second Kickstarter may actually reach the goal of 1mil. I have high hopes for this game (participated in both Kickstarters), but have serious concerns about the developer's ability to sustain financially long term. Also, the concepts look great on paper, but can Goblinworks deliver? Let's hope for some VC backing soon.
7 hours and just about 94%. I think they shot themselves in the foot with the 'daily deals' thing and the gated levels, even though their $100 level hasnt even hit the 4000 count for month 2..
I pledged for the tech demo, but honestly the signed book was a great value, and was taking a wait and see on this.
Oh, and they did say on the video and the kickstarter page that they got investors and this kickstarter was to speed up the development time:
Is the whole budget coming from this Kickstarter?
No. Most of the budget is being provided by our initial investors, but the money we're raising on Kickstarter is the difference between a 4 year development plan and a much faster, much larger plan
They are offically Funded.
They have hit 1 million bucks the goal on kickstarter just now.
Well.. let's see how it goes. Hopefully they will have enough to complete the game without starting another kickstarter lol
I would welcome a Pathfinder MMO, just I know the source of money in the industry and there is little chance it can be made without compromises.
What happened is that big publishers have found that they have a better return on their investment by either doing projects in house or smaller games (PC/mobile/tablet/social) so that no one is willing to allocate that much money on an unproven IP. By unproven is that there is a track record of non-game IP doing terribly in MMOs (Star Wars, Warhammer), so that either you create something new, you do a sandbox (a la Minecraft) or use an existing game IP (like World of Warcraft with Warcraft 3). In absence of these the onus of proof is against you. Hence the multiple kickstarters.
In regard to your initial question, they phrase their KS campaigns carefully. The first one was about a demo, this one I think is about a module. But does not matter because that;s not the way you build a successful MMO. They are costly beasts for a reason.
The only thing we can do is to take out the cc and blow $15 on KS on this and hope enough people do the same. This MMO might fail but it might inspire others to try.
We allow creative projects in the worlds of Art, Comics, Dance, Design, Fashion, Film, Food, Games, Music, Photography, Publishing, Technology, and Theater.
Everything on Kickstarter must be a project. A project has a clear goal, like making an album, a book, or a work of art. A project will eventually be completed, and something will be produced by it.
As Mughal has already mentioned, they're funding "a module" whatever that means. Something can be on kickstarter as long as they can make it have a clearly definable goal, and it doesn't violate the other requirements. So we may very well see them asking for more money in 6 months to fund another module.
So a shady group could, in theory, string people along across multiple KS projects for a while without ever actually delivering an actual usable/consumable product.
Not saying or implying that's what they're doing btw. I hope it works out for them. Unity3D could use the exposure with a commercial MMO.
Last edited by LennyLenard; 01-15-2013 at 03:03 AM.
They have a simple demo of the engine they'll be using. You can find it here if you're interested. There's not a lot there in terms of graphics, but I doubt people who are interested in this PO care that much. I was kind of impressed with the size and detail of the dungeon given that it's only a tech demo.
Last edited by Dudelander; 01-18-2013 at 02:39 AM.
That really sucks ... pathfinder could be an interesting game.
I know it's a simple prototype, but the dungeon didn't inspire a lot of confidence. It's yet another tunnel going from point A to point B with no alternate routes. Some of the ideas are nice in theory, but I just can't see this amounting to much (assuming it releases at all).
Ryan Dancey posted:
I've mentioned before that there's a misconception that "sandbox" means "unlimited freedom". Sandbox means that you build with the tools we provide, and you often astonish us with the unexpected uses to which you put those tools.
But that's the "sand". The other word in that term is "box". The box is the envelope we establish that defines the game and how it is to be played. One of those definitions is "don't be a jerk". Jerkiness is defined along one (of many) axis as killing without meaning.
As we've said many times before, dealing with disruptive greifing requires a multi-layered approach; there is no silver bullet. Therefore, there are in-game and out-of-game processes that are designed to limit such behavior, and responses that scale from warnings to substantial mechanical penalties as well.
We have also been clear that there are lots of forms of PvP that we consider inherently good for the game and are not jerkiness. Territorial warfare and banditry are two that we've been very up-front about. Banditry implies Bounty Hunting, and we've been up front about that as well.
There are forms of PvP that we consider inherently unacceptable behavior. If you are engaged in killing characters without an in-game rationale, just "for the lulz", that's not ok.
There are lots of gray areas in the Venn Diagram of "ok" and "jerkiness" when it comes to PvP, which is why we have a multi-layered, multi-dimensional, escalating approach to dealing with the problem. You will have meaningful choices to make about semi-jerky behavior, because engaging in those behaviors will have some, but not total, often not permanent negative consequences. You will have to decide if the fun you get from doing something that is "semi-jerky" is worth the price you'll pay in mechanical and social penalties.
These parts of the "box" mean that there are things you can do that we'll support, and things you can do that we won't, and things that if you do them, you'll face increasingly stiff penalties to the point where we hope you'll quit and go play some other game. You will not have unrestricted freedom to do whatever you wish, whenever you wish, to whomever you wish, for any reason.
This is Pathfinder Online not Lord of the Flies Online.
RyanDThoughts about Paladins
This is just me, Ryan, writing, not me Ryan the CEO of Goblinworks, and not Ryan giving directions to his game designers. So don't take any of this as anything but one persons' opinion.
Paladins are not bounty hunters. They are not sheriffs. They are not enforcers of the law. They are not Delta Force commandos.
Paladins are heroic adventurers who use Good and Law to fight evil and chaos as expressed primarily by outsiders, undead, monstrous creatures, aberrations and magical beasts, placing themselves into extremely dangerous situations and using the powers gifted to them by their patron deities to confront and vanquish elemental evil and chaos.
Paladins should not be engaged in killing other characters except in defense of Lawful Good Settlements. They should not be taking revenge for harm caused to other characters by 3rd parties.
Paladins should be standing in ancient barrows fighting wights, or issuing challenges to ogres who are terrorizing the Common Folk, or hunting and killing demonic creatures that have infiltrated civilization.
Paladins should serve as an example to others of the power and the glory that comes from living a righteous life, adhering to a rigorous code of honor, and placing oneself - one's very soul - at risk to protect the weak, defend the Realm, and upholding the tenants of the Faith.
RyanDThen things break down into Dancy arguing about alignment interpretations and implementations with random posters.Ryan Dancey posted:
There is no good reason to play a chaotic evil character except if you like being other people's content.
I think the strongest opposition that Lawful Good Settlements will face will come from Lawful Evil Settlements.
I think that many players will find that their choices often funnel them towards Chaotic Good social structures, thus those communities will often be the largest, most diverse, and most active.
I see most of the "neutral" positions on the alignment grid as either a delicate balancing point that you have to work hard to maintain so that you can be a bridge between other, larger social structures, or a temporary waypoint as your character's actions pull them towards one of the four corners.
Since I started this thread I have a feeling I should be the one to give some counterweight to the negative notions about this game, but it is hard to root for a game that is so early in development. Also, Ryan certainly comes off as an ass, and I do not even have any history with the the guy or Pathfinder or CCGs.
Still, it seems obvious that what he wants is to recreate (the awesomeness of) Eve in a Fantasy setting, and I can not fault him for that. It just seems that he is very obstinate in his views, or the way he brings them about, and despite all the talk about crowdforging (community helps shape the game) you just get the feeling that this guy is on a solo-trip.
On the other hand, trying to let the fans shape your game is probably not a good idea in MMO-land either.
I am following this, with scepcis. And a little hope.
Last edited by Treesong; 02-01-2013 at 07:14 AM.
I'm indifferent to "sandbox" MMOs. I'm open to them, I just think they're harder to do than a "normal" one. I would look forward to "EVE fantasy" really, if Dancy wasn't involved and it had no mechanical relationship to Pathfinder.
Been a while since anyone posted anything on this game, but a new progress video was released today. It shows environments, characters, armor, the same goblin dudes we've been seeing forever, and a blurry and stupid looking ogre thing at the end.
It looks okay for being so early. Needs some color, though.
this is one of the few games i'm looking forward to solely based on reading the blog (https://goblinworks.com/blog/). blog entires are often suprizingly detailed than expected. conceptually, also like how they are tieing in good/bad/evil/lawful matrix into pvp.
one thing that is annoying (but can't blame them to get more $) ... beta chars' time will not be reset. beta access to be limited and rolled out slowly. those slots i think are already filled. you char will be less valueable already! (pc-pow-wise, it won't make a diff).
also, there are plans for ingame tradeable skilltimetraining items (eve-like). i'd prefer a sub only than that option that messes the economy
So, anything new about this game? Almost forgot all about it - but when I saw the somewhat disappointing news about EQN, I started thinking about D&D and what I would like in a cool sandbox game, then I remember some dudes were supposedly working on Pathfinder Online...
Its nice to see that the game is actually in the works now, rather than being a concept thing. But it's probably going to take a good 3 or so years before it's ready, unfortunately.
All my hopes are still in Wildstar at the moment.
they are doing something similar to the eq:n multiclass (cept with time based training/access.).
seems like there is a well defined fundamental core/ecosystem for the world (which strengthens individuality which i can see as compensation for the lack of definited conventional classes)
Pathfinder team just came back from a convention where they outlined their plans and why they feel they will succeed where others have failed. He didn't have video of the presentation, but posted his power point, which actually has some pretty good projection/summary data. http://www.slideshare.net/rsdancey/p...ne-gencon-2013
I actually really like where they are headed with this. They seem to understand some of the more challenging aspects of creating an mmo and are facing those challenges head on. It seems telling that they are building the project to start with comparatively low (very low) subscriber numbers and slowly build from there. Even their long term subscriber number projections are quite modest. I've heard my fair share of negative stuff about Dancy, but the IP he is working with is very solid and his vision is pretty realistic (and intriguing).
Like everyone already knows, none of this matters until we see how the game actually PLAYS, but so far I haven't seen the fatal flaws I have seen in ther upcoming mmo plans...
Probably should have used $20 of their Kickstarter money and paid someone to do a better PowerPoint presentation. Also, "make a virtual world that is more meaningful than real life" is lol.
I'll still keep an eye on this and more power to them if it turns out quality, but I've got massive doubts.
I have an order of magnitude more faith in this meeting their expectations than EQN meeting 1/100th of SOE's.
I know it is awhile out yet but that looks like shit. Completely flat, models look terrible, animations aren't good, monsters are normal. I'm glad they have more to show for their efforts than the 38 studios MMO but it looks like it came out of 2004.
However, it doesn't do much for me either. It looks like just another fantasy mmo with the standard compliment of classes and races, been there done that.
What intrigues me is the gameplay, and the EvE connection with Ryan. If does have some EvE type gameplay then it might be an interesting game from that standpoint. Way too early to tell though.
Graphics serve only to provide immersion into the virtual world, which I find them competent enough to do.
Seriously, most of us here are old EQ vets, probably play a lot of P99, even some EQ1, etc - and the first thing is ZOMG THE GRAPHICS? Really?
If the game really is a fantasy Eve online (all players in single world, zero instancing, everything tradeable, multiple economic hubs, town building, guild vs guild warfare, zone control) then those graphics are more than sufficient.
Last edited by Astral Projection; 11-08-2013 at 05:10 PM.
Uh no it's not hyperbole. Everquest 2 released in 2004 and the character models were better. The bump mapping while over the top was also better. Lighting seems about the same. WoW released the same year as did Doom 3, Thief Deadly Shadows and so on. I highly suggest you go back and look at some screens and compare the two. Granted all of those were finished and as I Stated originally I am sure this isn't the final product.Originally Posted by Grim1
The snippets of gameplay in the video look horrible. I'll get more into this when I respond to the apologists already rearing their heads.Originally Posted by Grim1
Graphics are not the most important aspect of any game, the game play is. I can't stress enough how true this is. Having said that we are given a three minute video showing in game footage and from beginning to end it looks like shit. What else do you want to discuss? Features not shown at all in the video? Most of the people on this board played Everquest when it was relevant. Most of the people on this board did not play P99 or continue to play Everquest. So you're talking about a subset of a subset who are thrilled to death they have a graphic game as opposed to Pathfinder Online not being a text based game? What the hell do you see in the three minutes of footage in the video that I missed where I should be talking about something else? Please elaborate because as it stands I'm reasonably certain you're an apologist or a troll.Originally Posted by Bruman
I completely agree. The problem though is they didn't show three minutes of any of that. They gave us three minutes of horrible fights, landscape, and character profiling. I have no idea why they even released the video other than to say "LOOK IT ISN'T VAPORWARE GAIZ!"Originally Posted by Astral Projection
I don't doubt that in your personal lives you accept "well it ain't pretty but it works lol lol lol" as the height of excellence, I do not. Seeing such little attention to detail as that video displays does not in anyway inspire confidence.
I was expecting something really awful. Graphics aren't bad. Animations are a bit clunky.
However, this is a pen and paper studio making a computer game right?
I think server stability and bugs will make or break this game, not the graphics.
The graphics don't look that hot, but then again few western MMOs launched the last 10 years have. Personally, I'm surprised they got this far.
Holy shit that looks boring
Is it really hard to make online tabletop? I mean, I realize there ARE options out there, but why aren't bigger name companies like Wizards working their nards off to get a bona fide version of tabletop in a box for online play?
Fuck MMOs. They make mockery of real gaming.
Actually, it'd probably be pretty sweet to play a tabletop game online. It'd sure as hell reduce the barrier to entry.
I had never been in a comic book store in my life, but in 8th grade I saw one of my friends reading a Games Workshop book and it blew my mind. It became my bathroom reading material for the next year. Haha. I never actually got into it, but I would sure as hell play a computer game that emulated tabletop gaming!
No more unicorns.
Wizards was supposed to, but like everything else relating to D&D they screwed the pooch and everything went to shit. I think a guy even killed himself.
I want to like this. The graphics reminded me of Mount & Blade, the animations looked really rough. It definitely had a nice NOT WOW vibe. Hope they pull it off. Yeah, it looks rough.
killed his wife and then himself. Terribly sorry for that woman, and I can see why there would be a period of mourning over the whole thing, but come on. It's been YEARS.
Anyway, I truly, truly believe there's a huge hidden market out there for online turn-based game play. If Fantasy Flight Games ever bought a clue and put their best-selling board games in a good-looking online format, they could sell monthly subscriptions by the assload. Imagine for 10 bucks a month you had online access to play any Fantasy Flight Board game with the online community day or night. Take my money, that shit is FUN. And I have a really hard time believing that with all the shit developers show off these days that hiring a small team of competent devs wouldn't do a job well done on a medium budget with some board games where the mechanics are already all laid out. All that's needed is a translation to a new format with some bells and whistles. Next, market that shit and it's a done deal.
See, if someone like Fantasy Flight picked up the ball and showed that such a thing would be insanely profitable (and I'm goddamned positive it would be), then we might see some truly amazing turn-based games like D&D get done they way they deserve.
There's just no reason beyond laziness and stupidity not to make this genre of online gaming take off like it should. Fuck, it's just way overdue.
The folks over and Cryptozoic would know exactly what I'm talking about. As excited as I am about Hex, I sort of wish they'd have tapered their ambition a little and gone the board game route instead of the TCG route, simply because a bundle of board games would be a surer thing to start with.
Last edited by SlyyDaugg; 11-15-2013 at 10:58 AM.
If this thing does release the only reason to play it ( which is huge for me ) is the Pathfinder system. IMO its the best one out there along with D&D 3.5 on which it is based. I can't imagine there will be anything "new" other than a kick ass system behind it.
Anyways what amazed me is that all the various Pathfinder books are available for download as a PDF for like $5. I remember back when I was 12 we had a single players handbook that was beat to shit. It had been passed around more than a Thai hooker and smelled one like too. Money is no concern for me now, but fucking hell back then I would've slit a kittens throat for a players handbook if it only cost me $5.
I don't know maybe times have changed, but what Paizo is doing doesn't seem like a cash grab to me.
I don't know the games personally so can't comment on their quality or lack thereof. But it wouldn't take a $500 dollar investment to figure it out. I suspect you actually enjoyed the games for quite a while, and then only became disappointed at the end of your investment.
I was a beta tester on Pathfinder P+P and it's more than a "marginal" improvement over 3.5. A lot of what Pathfinder does right is leave shit alone. I know that sounds stupid but they made minor tweaks to a lot of things but left what worked alone. Simply by adding a feat every other level (instead of every three in DnD 3.5) a lot of character "dead levels" were removed. They added a little bit of flair to every class which improves each class in small ways that makes the entire character flow much better. A great example of this is removing the Bardic Knowledge feature (which was redundant anyway since Bards are skill monkeys) and allow Bards to add half their level into all knowledge checks. This small thing becomes a big deal when you utilize feats that require skill checks off of knowledge checks. Small changes that have a big impact.
You're a fucking crack smoker. It isn't even close. DnD 3.5 has 55 rulebooks (not including anything from 3.0 and only including books printed by WoTC for the generic campaign setting). So not counting any adventures, any campaign settings (FR and Eberron mostly) you have 55 fucking books. Want to count the campaign setting materials oh that number is over 100 now. Want to count adventures published for 3.5 specific source books now we are somewhere around 200 I think. Probably more. Back when all the materials were in print you could spend 5k and not have all the books and adventures. We're not including Dungeon magazine or Dragon Magazine in any of this either let alone the DnD minis. Pathfinder has what 20 rule books and all of one campaign setting (as far as I know anyway). Goddamn dude that is seriously the most retarded shit I have read this week (in regards to nerd related discussion).Originally Posted by Antagonist
You know what makes the bloat that Pathfinder does have bearable and not a concern to me? It's FREE. It might take a couple months but after a splatbook is published all the rules are free for anyone to use on a website.
Well paizo started off very strong, the adventures they published in Dragon were excellent. I played those with a group and tested the pathfinder alpha and beta as well. I had high hopes for the company and wanted to give them my support. So instead of buying just a core rule book and bestiary I purchased a dm's guide, advanced phb, the second half of the bestiary, a good chunk of the adventure paths, the golarian campaign setting book, and a few of the player aides like item cards etc. 500 was a little heavy I guess but for all of that I think it is reasonable. Is the game brokenly bad? No. Is it full of little headaches that add up way too quickly? Yep. I did get some use out of the products for sure, but I wouldn't recommend them to someone who already has a set of 3.5 books and the time to make their own adventures/campaigns.
I was certainly one of those kids with a beat up PHB and a Monster Manual (which everyone seems to be splitting into multiple volumes these days) but I was under the impression the pdfs were a $5 addon to a book purchase. I could be wrong on that though.
New video is, uh ... it has a long way to go still.
I am actually Convo/Shabushabu/ArcticSlicer levels of crazy about this game but I refuse to feed myself to the wolves here. So, yeah, graphics sucks, Ryan Dancey sucks, this is gonna fail, wtf PvP and so forth.
Even so: Alpha is planned for April this year, Early Enrollment (if you bought into that, which I did) in Q3 this year. They are still on track with their development schedule. Early Enrollment starts with a MVP (Minimum Viable Product), features will be added during the 1.5 years of Early Enrollment after that, no wipes. Open Enrollment will start in Q1 2016. That is when Settlement Warfare should have been implemented.
A few notes that may safe you the trouble of reading up on this at all(there is a HUGE amount of blogs to work through if you do):
- Heavy on PvP(Player settlements, Warfare, Feuds, a thriving and localized! player-economy based on scarcity and transportation! of resources are the keywords that I would use) but the goal is to NOT let the game degrade into a murder-simulator. If this statement immediately triggers a huge NOT POSSIBLE in your mind and rustles all your jaded jimmies then do not proceed.
- You do not earn xp to skill your character up, you BUY xp. Each character can have a monthly max of XP applied to it, which equals a 15 dollar sub price. You pay for each separate character, you can have more characters on the same account receiving xp and you can have any amount of characters of the same account online simultaneously. So it is a bit like Eve's subsystem. The xp is not the end of the story, you need to finish achievements in the game to apply the xp for certain skills/roles/feats you want. From the moment Early Enrollment starts, monetization will start! However most of the Kickstarter pledges include free months of xp. Soon the Goblinworks Store will open where you can buy packages to ensure participation in EE and such.
These are 2 things that may perceived as a dealbreaker.
However if these 2 do not put you off, then there is huge amount of more interesting and positive things to read about the game in the GoblinWorks blogs here: Goblinworks
I would also like to add we are not talking 10 jobless game-designers here, drinking the Kool-aid in a garage. This project has continued funding by Paizo, established publisher of the Pathfinder I.P. and is well into development, within offices on the Paizo grounds in Seattle. These two blogs should give you a bit of insight on how the development process is going and where the money goes.
Where are we sofar
About the money
Last edited by Treesong; 02-23-2014 at 03:25 PM.
Goblinworks can use an I.P. that is loved by many ( I had never heard of Pathfinder, btw), they have backing by a publisher that has something to lose, they are on a lean and mean schedule, with the idea to grow the game over time and they have Ryan Dancey. A blunt but seasoned guy, who so far is still saying things I like. I personally don't give a shit about his OGL or the card-games he has supposedly ruined so I have no other beefs with the man.
His realism about what can be in the game in early stages is refreshing. It also means there is a big chance that the game will get a bad rep in these early stages, because they start while many features are not in place yet. But this approach is neccesary both from a monetary standpoint as well as the innovation aspect of it: everytime they introduce a new feature (like the Reputation system, or the first Settlement building) they need to finetune the effects. It is going to be a rough ride, and I indeed hope they manage to sit out that ride, also financially.
There is also this "crowdforging" that is supposed to be one of the pillars of the development proces: during EE players will have a say as to which systems should be prioritized for implementation. Not only when but also some say as to what extent. Not sure how that will work out but I am pretty sure that the players in EE will play a huge role in providing all the meta-data that Goblinworks will gather, for finetuning their systems.
I have to say that I have been participating on the PFO forums for almost a year now and Ryan is very involved with all the threads there. There is not a day that goes by where he does not chime in on the more important issues, in his typical blunt manner. Also a lot of expectation management which is to be expected. Some nice clashes with hardcore Eve-players too.
So no wipes going from alpha -> early enrollment -> official launch? Which means even if you shell out $100 people will still have months of xp ahead of you. Not sure I like that idea.
If you pay 100 dollars you will start out in month 2 of Early Enrollment, so only original backers will have a month of extra xp. But you can only expend a set amount of XP to a character per month, and the idea is to have a much flatter powercurve for PFO. Now a veteran character with 3 years of xp under his belt, will be a much more versatile character, since he will have been able to expend XP into many more Skills then a character of 6 months. However, they say that a character with just a few weeks of XP under his belt is already a viable character if you put it towards a single role.
Characters are not set into a specific role at charactercreation, it is the skills you "buy" with your XP that will define your role. So if you buy wizardly skills (you also sometimes need to finish achievements, next to needing xp), the abilities that belong to that will go up too (like Int). In the end you can accumulate the skills (plus attributes that underly that skill) of all the "roles" that PFO offers. This will not mean you have 40 hotbars full of shit that covers all roles.
Your equipped stuff (weapons, armors, spellbooks, Cantrips, Orisons etcetera) will be closely tied to which skills/spells you can sucessfully use; you can mix and match stuff off course but there will be synergies and bonusses for equipping to fit a certain role. You can change stuff out fairly easy as long as you are not in combat. Also keep in mind that having a full inventory of "role-specific" gear so you can swap out to fit any role, is dangerous. There is practicaully full looting in this game. You can "thread"stuff, this can not be taken from you. A newbie can pretty much thread anything he has equipped, a veteran will be able to thread less items so will have to choses the most valuable, most likely his weapon or spellbooks. At death 25% gets destroyed immediately and the remaining 75% of unthreaded stuff is up for grabs.
Also please note that pretty much everything in this game is crafted and that you will not have unique Uber weapons as you get in PvE Raid games. High-tier weapons will be costly and some will be hard to make(depending on how many and which combination of "keywords" like "Silver" , "of Vampire Slaying", "Crushing", "Bleeding" etcetera are on it, and which tier ingredients is used) but they can still all be made, given time and resources. Expect to have lots of extra sets in the bank, also expect to loot shit yourself off course.
Anyway, in this aspect there are not really levels: if you concentrate on a few skills, you can most likely train to be a dangerous fireball slinger in weeks that can actually do damage to a veteran character. You are off course not nearly as versatile and will still loses to a vet of 3 years, one on one.
Anyway, I understand your concerns and we will have to see how it works out.
Last edited by Treesong; 04-28-2014 at 08:23 AM.
What about the folks that are in alpha (going on now)? Are they getting wiped when early enrollment hits? I followed the game a while back but it seemed like it was still ages away so I stopped. Will probably do the $100 + sub just to have a character training for when I want to play. Archeage will probably keep me busy till well after early enrollment launches.
Last edited by Aleatha; 04-28-2014 at 08:26 AM.
Alpha is about to start, I expect them to announce something about it in the coming blog on wednesday 30th. Alpha characters get free sub for the duration of the EE but not sure if the XP they accumulate during alpha will port over to EE, good question. I do know that alpha characters will be wiped before EEQ, so I would think they start with zero xp after that.
Alpha is also not planned to take a long time: when you look at the pledge packages, you will see that the Pioneer package talks about 2nd month of enrollment being July for them, which would mean EE would start in June. That would leave 2 months of alpha at most. They have said that alpha is mostly meant to iron out stuff with account creation, xp-expenditure and such.
However, I think they are being very optimistic here and that whole alpha could very well come crashing down with bugs. I think EE will be so barebone that any player that enters EE unsuspecting will probably log out after 10 minutes, and depending on character, will either shake his head and move on, or go on his favorite forum and viciously burn down this "bugged piece of unfinished crap" to the ground.
And with "unsuspecting" I mean anyone that has not spent the last 1.5 years on the Pathfinder Online forums, did not read the 2100 Developer posts, and did not read all 718 pages of developer-blogs that are out there, explaining the game, the goal and the concept of EE and the "minimum viable product", like I did.
I think you are wise to focus on Archeage. And yes, if you are serious about entering EE at some point, it will be nice to have a good chunk of xp waiting for you, so you can start expending it and buying skills and shit (keep in mind that a lot will also require some achievements, though these will sometimes be simple). Ryan said that during EE a lot could still change, however the only ting that will be "sacrosanct is XP". Meaning that in worst case scenarios there may be rollbacks and shit, but you will never lose any XP that you payed for.
Sorry, double post.
The newest blog is about the Landrush. 3 Guilds have already been allowed to pick their spots in the Landrushmap. Things are slowly getting real, alpha soon. For the next 10 weeks other Guilds will be able to pick the spots for their settlement(second landrush).
Anyway, here is the link to the blog: Rushing the Land | Goblinworks
And here is the link to the mapthread: paizo.com - Pathfinder Online: Unofficial Pathfinder Online Map
Click on the latest map in the post from Harad.
Although that thread is called the "Unofficial Map" thread, it is actually very much the real map, but enhanced by Harad, who is just a fan. Mind you, it is a layered PDF, and takes a while to load into Adobe before you can browse it.
You will notice that 3 hexes have names under them, these are claimed by the 3 Guilds that "won" the first "landrush". Landrush being nothing more at this point then showing the biggest membership. Read the blog for how the second landrush will play out.
I am not sure I understand the whole landrush concept. Shouldn't they be fighting over the right to spots rather than having it just given to them?
Yes, it is a startingpoint. Do not forget that half if not more of the game(systems) still has to implemented in that timeframe of the Early Enrollment, which runs from Fall this year till Jan 2016. If all goes well. Also, they may have those cities now, but that does not mean they get to keep them forever. Once sieging and all that stuff is in, they could lose their city just as much as the next one. Off course they will have an advantage of being dug in already, then again, who is to say the Guild does not implode by itself?
Lots of things can happen, but they need a starting point somewhere.
Landrush is a big word for what is going on now, that is why I put it in "". (well, I did that once)
Everything about this game looks absolutely awesome on paper. The real test is how it plays. How does it feel when you jump on your character and start casting spells or swinging a sword? That's the true test. Goblinworks could do everything right, from the back-end stuff to the execution and implementation, but if it doesn't have tactile appeal, it will fall flat.
There's a new blog post up about crafting. And a new video interview:
If this game is remotely playable I'll defiantly subscribe.
Last edited by Dudelander; 05-30-2014 at 12:44 AM.
Calling it now. This game will be a sleeper hit. I imagine it will be much like Eve in that they start with a modest player base and grow the base exponentially over time.
Apparently the Alpha build won't have an NDA attached to it and it starts soon. Very ballsy move. Guess we will learn pretty quickly if this is worth continuing to follow. KNEEL BEFORE ZOG! Alpha Test Information | Goblinworks
If anyone has access to alpha footage, please post links here. Very curious to see unfiltered/unedited gameplay.
Oh man...those images look really, really rough. It's nice to see that class skills are in there, though.
Any of you guys in the Alpha?
If you're not getting positive nettz, you're not trying!
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