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Thread: Warhammer 40,000 Novels

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    Registered User OUAriakas's Avatar
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    Warhammer 40,000 Novels

    Still reading Angel Exterminatus. Perturabo confirmed badass.

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    Riddle me this... Jx3's Avatar
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    See i told you!

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    Registered User OUAriakas's Avatar
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    Yep. They have been doing a great job of making the primarchs that used to be relegated to the footnotes into really interesting characters. Corax, Perturabo, and the Curze's personalities really do a great job distinguishing the legions from the more well known ones. Hell, the Ultramarines may be the least intersting legion in the Heresy.

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    This is very true. I still want a full book on Mortarion and the Death Guard. Seems like they are one of the only big chaos marine chapters that haven't been touched on much.

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    Registered User OUAriakas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lanludar View Post
    This is very true. I still want a full book on Mortarion and the Death Guard. Seems like they are one of the only big chaos marine chapters that haven't been touched on much.
    They had their small part in Fight of the Eisenstien but have virtually disappeared since then. Mortarion is one of 3 primarchs (along with Jangati Khan and Vulkan) that haven't had a story from their POV yet.

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    Riddle me this... Jx3's Avatar
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    I think Vulcan has a short story, cant remember the title off hand but I have yet to see anything about The Khan or the Death Guard

    edit* Promethean Sun by Nick Kyme
    Last edited by Jx3; 12-08-2012 at 01:38 PM. Reason: Found the title

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    Registered User OUAriakas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jx3 View Post
    I think Vulcan has a short story, cant remember the title off hand but I have yet to see anything about The Khan or the Death Guard

    edit* Promethean Sun by Nick Kyme
    Oh yea, totally forgot about that one. It was good, not great. They need to let Kyme write a whole heresy book about his life and what happened after the dropsite.

    That brings up a good question: Do you think they are going to give ANY answers to the lingering heresy questions?
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    Gavinrad Sparklerad's Avatar
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    Eh, I think the whole point of the Ultramarines is that they are the most boring vanilla dudes imaginable. They're also as reliable as it gets, which is why over 50% of the current Space Marine chapters trace their lineage to the Ultramarine geneseed.

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    Retarded Fucktard Wrathcaster's Avatar
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    Ultramarines book is good for what it is... As emotional as a book can be about largely emotionless nigh-perfectly rational supersoldiers molded by the greatest realist military mind in existence.

    That being said, because of Angel Exterminatus, Perturabo is very nearly my favorite Primarch now. Under appreciated but accomplished, driven to heresy more out of frustration and disappointment than anything else... No religious motive whatsoever, just converting because fuck everyone else, and especially fuck that gold covered bastard who builds forts and shit.

    After Know No Fear and Fear to Tread I see now how they're looking to direct the rest of the Heresy series. Lexicanum and other sources always talk about how Dorn accuses Guilliman as a coward for missing the siege of Terra while the Blood Angels make it, and given that apparently the Blood Angels and Ultramarines legions meet up before making for Terra I can see how it's going to go: Guilliman sends the Blood Angels to Terra, using his own legion to destroy any heretic reinforcements in route to Terra, then making his way to the crown world to win the war.

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    Riddle me this... Jx3's Avatar
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    Yeah just read a short story which explains why the Dark Angles never make it to Terra and how the Lion even knows how others will see it as. Ties in nicely with the other Dark Angels book about the Fallen.

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    Registered User OUAriakas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jx3 View Post
    Yeah just read a short story which explains why the Dark Angles never make it to Terra and how the Lion even knows how others will see it as. Ties in nicely with the other Dark Angels book about the Fallen.
    That story is why I love the WH40k universe so much. The Dark Angles' allegiance will always be questioned even though they helped save the Imperium. Not only does the rest of the galaxy not know this but because of what Luthur and his group are preparing to do the legion itself will have a massive identity crisis that spans 10,000 years.
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    Registered User Mallika's Avatar
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    I've been interested in the Warhammer 40k universe but I'm not sure where to start reading. Can anyone make suggestions on where to start? I know very little about the lore, complete noob here.

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    Gavinrad Sparklerad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mallika View Post
    I've been interested in the Warhammer 40k universe but I'm not sure where to start reading. Can anyone make suggestions on where to start? I know very little about the lore, complete noob here.
    The majority of the discussion in this thread is about the Horus Heresy, which takes place 10k years before the 'present day' of the 40k setting. You can't really go wrong starting on that, the first book is 'Horus Rising'. As for the modern day stuff, as long as you avoid certain authors (Mainly CS Goto and Henry Zhou) you can't really go too wrong. Graham Macneill and Dan Abnett are generally the best authors 40k has, it's hard to find something bad that they've written. But yeah, don't read anything by CS Goto or Henry Zhou. I'd also avoid Gav Thorpe, while he was a major contributor to the overall setting itself, his books are pretty lousy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gavinrad View Post
    The majority of the discussion in this thread is about the Horus Heresy, which takes place 10k years before the 'present day' of the 40k setting.
    So wouldn't that make it Warhammer 30K?
    Last edited by Vardisk; 12-18-2012 at 03:19 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mallika View Post
    I've been interested in the Warhammer 40k universe but I'm not sure where to start reading. Can anyone make suggestions on where to start? I know very little about the lore, complete noob here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vardisk View Post
    So wouldn't that make it Warhammer 30K?
    it's called 40k because thats the current period of time. But during the 30th millennium many important events occurred that shaped the galaxy like we see it today. the discussion is based on the fact that even if the general events are known, no detailed infos was avaible. The books are narrating with details how and why everything became the clusterfuck of madness and zeal this universe is

    incoming massive wall of text

    Spoiler: 


    wh40k was created in 1987 by the british company Games Workshop as a tabletop game, where miniature armies battle each other following preset rules. In the years, it has expanded beyond the tabletop world to become one of the most influencing scifi setting of the last 30 years with videogames, comics and specially books (the 40k library now contain like 100+ books)

    To make you understand its influence, you will find lot of 40k elements in Gears of War, Mass Effect, Warcraft, Starcraft, Halo, and many others games. Starcraft specially has basically copied the concept for Terran Marines, Protoss and Zerg from 40k's Spacemarines, Eldar and Tyranid

    to give you an idea of the thematics of this universe i think the best way is to quote its main motto:

    IN THE GRIM DARKNESS OF THE FAR FUTURE THERE IS ONLY WAR

    "It is the 41st Millennium. For more than a hundred centuries the Emperor of Mankind has sat immobile on the Golden Throne of Earth. He is the master of mankind by the will of the gods and master of a million worlds by the might of his inexhaustible armies. He is a rotting carcass writhing invisibly with power from the Dark Age of Technology. He is the Carrion Lord of the vast Imperium of Man for whom a thousand souls are sacrificed every day so that he may never truly die.Yet even in his deathless state, the Emperor continues his eternal vigilance. Mighty battlefleets cross the daemon-infested miasma of the Warp, the only route between distant stars, their way lit by the Astronomican, the psychic manifestation of the Emperor's will. Vast armies give battle in His name on uncounted worlds. Greatest amongst his soldiers are the Adeptus Astartes, the Space Marines, bio-engineered super-warriors. Their comrades in arms are legion: the Imperial Guard and countless planetary defence forces, the ever-vigilant Inquisition and the tech-priests of the Adeptus Mechanicus to name only a few. But for all their multitudes, they are barely enough to hold off the ever-present threat to humanity from aliens, heretics, mutants -- and far, far worse. To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be relearned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods."



    This is the very first thing you have to understand about this world....there is no good guy. And when i say it, i mean it. This is the thing that makes wh40k so unique. Humanity is just the "lesser evil" of a universe filled with insane, demonic and genocidal races dedicated only to the annihilation of each other. The Imperium of Man is a dictatorial, xenophobic, militaristic theocracy with the declared intent to eradicate the entire galaxy of any non-human being fighting a constant all out war from over 10000 years with thousands of conflicts at any moment.

    Physical and psychik torture, mass executions, total and brutal repression of any act of dissent are standard procedure in the Imperium. Every protest, act of dissent or any hint of atheism or different religious doctrine is brutally repressed in mercyless crusades. Entire worlds can be judged heretical and be obliterated from orbit (they even have a name for this operation: Exterminatus. Videolink under here)



    The same is considered any peaceful act of cooperation with alien races

    The entire human society is built around it's constant, neverending militaristic efford to survive against the extremely hostile universe they live in, with the fanatic faith in the God-Emperor as the only social and psychological force that keep the trillions of humans to endure against all odds

    The major threat in this universe, are the forces of the Warp. The Warp is a parallel dimension where thoughts and emotions of sentient beings take shape and form. This is the realm of the mind, different in many ways to the material universe. Those gifted with psychic abilities can draw energy from this realm to achive many powers. Telekhinesis, mindreading, prediction of the future or the ability to shoot warpfire or lightning are some of their powers. This is also the dimension starship use to make Faster Than Light travels

    but it is also the realm of the demons of Chaos. Entities who thirst for our emotions and souls. The 4 gods of Chaos are the rulers of this realm, acting at any moment to corrupt every living being to their wishes

    40k history spams many millennia with the Emperor of Mankind as its central figure, and it's divided in "ages"

    from our time to 15th millennium it's called the Age of Progress. Almost no information remain but it's the age where technology started to be learned and limited spaceflight was avaible

    The Dark Age of Technology is the golden age of humanity and goes from M15 to M25. This is the age were humanity progressed like never before, spreading among the stars with countless colonies. All technological discoveries were shared in a galaxywide database called the Standard Template Construct so that any colony could learn to build anything they wanted. It is said the the tech level was becoming so high that it started to resemble magic. At the time, only the Eldar empire had any possibility to be a threat, but it had already started its slow decline torward destruction (ill tell you more later)

    The Age of Strife, going from M25 to M30. Humanity age of despair. In the matter of few centuries all humanity had achived was destroyed by the combination of different events. Humanity greatest creation, the Men of Iron (sentient robots) rebelled against their creators and started a war that lasted for over a century. In the end humanity won, but dramatically crippled. At the same time, the first 3 gods of chaos, Khorne, Nurgle and Tzeench, gained full self existence. Their coalescence caused many massive warpstorms that made interstellar flight or comunication impossible. Most world were cut off from the rest of humanity. Colonies depending from other worlds were isolated, easy prey for alien races. Psykers started to be born in greater numbers, but without the knowledge of how to control their power, they fell prey to the Warp demons. The entire human society collapsed, regressing millennia. The Standard Template Construct was almost entirely lost, and technological knowledge slowly disappeared without the tools to understand how it worked

    Millennium 30th: This is the most crucial period in recorded history. The Eldar race decadence caused the single most destructive event of the galaxy. Without any serious threat to their supremacy, and with all material needs fulfilled, the Eldar had long ago started to be a race who lived just to pursuit progress and enjoy life. They became a race of artists, scientists and researchers. However, with a lifespam of over 1000 years, some of them started to grow bored and began to pursuit more dungerous and twisted wishes to find some thrilling in their long life. Things got worse and worse until most of the Eldar population had become an hedoistic race, dedicated to pursuit any sensation and instinct they wanted, physical and psychical, including murdering or torture. Many were disgusted by this and fled to the outer worlds of the empire. Others had visions of the impending destruction of their race and tried to change this cursed path. All for nothing. All this twisted sensations, thoughts and emotions gathered together in the Warp. The 4th god of Chaos, Slaanesh, came to existence. Its birthcry was so powerful it ripped apart reality, creating a "hole" between real space and the warp, engulfing the entire Eldar empire in what is known as the Eye of Terror, a region of space where the 2 universes merge. The souls of almost the entire Eldar population was eaten by "She who Thirsts". Today, the Eldar race is composed of a small fraction of the survivors, living in planedsize ships called Craftworld, and fighting to avoid extinction, knowing that the day they die, their soul will be devoured by Slaanesh

    The creation of the Eye of Terror had also another effect. The huge warpstorms that made interstellar travel impossible disappeared. This is when the Emperor of Mankind emerged for the first time

    Born in central Anatolia in 6000B.C. as an immortal psyker with immense power, he had guided and influenced humanity from the shadows since then. Never taking direct control until now (it is possible that Jesus, Caesar and many other historical figures were him). He conquered the various factions of the devastated earth, and started to build his great Imperium. Taking his own genetic code, he created 20 genetically engeneered superhumans. They were the 20 Primarch, incredibly powerful and inteligent men. His generals to guide his armies. The gods of Chaos however interfered, seeing the Emperor and his plan for an ordered, atheist galaxy as an anathema for their existence and scattered the still infant Primarchs all over the galaxy. The Emperor used the Primarch genetic code as a template to create the 20 legions of Adeptus Astartes, commonly known and SpaceMarine. Genetically altered humans (much less than the primarchs tho), who became his elite army. He launched his crusade to unite again humanity lost colonies, peaceful if possible, or subjugating them.

    The Primarchs were found one after the other, all of them had grown in different worlds all of them with their own story and background. They were put in control of the Spacemarines legion created from their genetic code and became in short time mythical figures for the entire Imperium population

    This time was called the Great Crusade, a war efford that brought together hundreds of thousand of worlds, united under the same banner after 5000 dark years

    With the crusade going strong, the Emperor retired to earth to complete an important project. He knew of the warp and his denizers, and wanted to free humanity from the need of it for FTL travel, A major turn point happened for this

    Horus, the greatest of the Primarchs was declared Warmaster, and put in charge of the crusade

    This is when things turned to bad

    The Emperor had one, main goal to achive. He wanted to free humanity from the chains of religion, faith and superstition. He wanted to create a secular reign, where only reason and science guided humanity actions

    Not everyone agreed tho. One of the Primarch, Lorgar, had grown up in a very religious world. Faith in divinity was his life, and he considered the Emperor a god. He even wrote a book about the Emperor called Lectio Divinitatus. At first, the Emperor tollerated his zeal. But when Lorgar's legion, called Word Bearers, started to became slow and inefficent in its military campaign because he was wasting resources in converting the population of the worlds, the Emperor lead an assemly of spacemarine and destroyed the capital of the religious planet of Khur, a planet dear to Lorgar and his legion. The entire Word Bearers Legion, 100,000 Space Marines strong, were ordered to assemble on the planet's surface, within sight of the smoldering ruins of the capital, where its Astartes were humiliated and rebuked by the Emperor himself, who psychically forced everyone, including Lorgar, to kneel before him, and explained to them that they had failed both him and humanity. Lorgar was stunned by his father's reproach and refusal to accept his worship

    This was a shaking event for Lorgar. It was at this time that his closest friend Kor Phaeron, spoke to him about the Chaos Gods. Lost without his faith, Lorgar was easy prey of their temtation, embraced them with joy, with his entire legion and the worlds under his control

    Even with his legion and entire starsystems ready to fight for him, alone he could not move against the Imperium. He needed to bring others under the power of Chaos and organized a trap for the Warmaster Horus

    Horus was wounded by a cursed sword, and during his period of convalescence was corrupsed by the Chaos Gods

    This was the beginning of the Horus Heresy, an event that has shaped the 40k universe like we know today

    With Horus brilliant influence and manipulation, half of the Primarch fell under the power of chaos

    Their first open act of rebellion was the "Drop Site Massacre". He sent 4 loyalist spacemarine legions to conquer the corrupted world of Istvaan V. When they made landfall, Horus army bombed the planet, killing dozen of thousands of Spacemarines. To their horror, the survivors were attacked by 3 more fellow legions starting a civil war that would obliterate trillions of beings

    The culmination of the HH was the siege of Terra, where Horus' own legion and 3 more legions assaulted the throne world (the other 5, were devastating the galaxy). The loyalists resisted however, and when he learned that the Ultramarine legion, by far the strongest, was coming to help the loyal forces, Horus shut down his ship shield to bait the Emperor for a direct confrontation. The Emperor teleported together with the Primarch Sanguinius and an elite force of spacemarines to fight Horus and stop the war.

    Separated during the fight, Sanguinius reached Horus first and fought him, but was easely overwhelmed by Horus. He died moments before the Emperor finally reached him. They fought, and Horus managed to mortally wound the Emperor before being obliterated by the Emperor's might

    The dieng Emperor was brought back to the royal palace and interlinked to a life-sustaining machined called The Golden Throne.
    After this event, the survivors of the civil war tried to keep the imperium together, but half millennium had to pass before any kind of stability was reached. The corrupted space marine legions fled into the Eye of Terror, and even now they still assault the Imperium

    With the absence of the Emperor, the remaining primarchs lead the Imperium for a time, but 2 of them died, 3 of them disappeard into the warp, and one of them is suspended in a stasis field after being heavely wounded (the others died in the war)

    Without this leading figures, the organization of the Imperium changed, and many organization rose to fulfil many works. One of them was the Inquisition, an secret organization to fight demons and Chaotic beings, another....was the Ecclesiarchy. As paradox to all this, the Emperor started to be revered as a god following the teaching of Lectio Divinitatus book Lorgar had written before turning to Chaos

    Now, over 10000 years after the Horus Heresy, religious zeal has become THE major force that keep the Imperium together. Even technology itself is now a cult, with the belief that divine will is what makes machines to work. Rituals and prayers are done to make them work in an absurd dicotomy of senseless belief and technological supersition (for example, alien technology is considered impure and rarely studied to understand it). Real technological research is almost inexistent. With most of the new techs coming from the retrieving of Standard Templates from the old ages

    This is the current 40k universe. A stagnant, dictatorial society besiege from all side by aliens and demonic forces where the population are not much more than "resources" for the war effords, and where "serving the Emperor" with your life is the only prospect in life for the poor majority

    the only hope is the Emperor, who is, to this day, still linked to the Golden Throne. His devastated body is kept from "never truly die" by the sacrifice of 1000 psykers at day

    This should give you a basic understanding about 40k universe

    the next step, is either start reading the Horus Heresy books (Horus Rising, False Gods and Galaxy in Flame are the first 3 of the serie and focus on Horus himself), or go to Warhammer 40000 wiki or to Lexicanum and waste and entire week on them

    the pages you should read first are:

    Imperium of Man
    Emperor of Mankind
    Space Marines + Primarchs
    Horus Heresy
    Chaos
    Warp
    Imperial Guard
    Inquisition
    Adeptus Mechanicus
    Ecclesiarchy

    the major xenos race (Eldar, Ork, Tyranid, Necrons, Tau, Dark Eldar)

    technologies and weapons (Warp Travel, Gellar Field, Chainsword, Power weapons, Thunderhammer, Bolter, Lasgun/Lascanon, Plasma weapons, Melta weapoms, Shuriken weapons, Gauss weapons, Wraightbone, Necrodermis, Ceramite, Adamantium)

    vehicles (Dreadnought, Land Raider, Baneblade, Thunderhawk, Titan, various class of space ships, Wraightlord, Wraightguard, Fire Prism, Wartrukk, Battlewagon, Necron Monolith)

    Emperor's blood, i write too much when 40k is involved.....
    Last edited by fucker; 12-18-2012 at 10:14 AM.

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    Registered User Mallika's Avatar
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    Sounds awesome, thanks for the post. I'm planning on picking up the Horus Heresy books today after finals.

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    trust me, if you are a fan of complex scifi settings, fantasy settings and general fan of shit-getting-blow-up you will simply lose yourself in it. 40k tabletop survived the competition, the broken rules, and the general bad handling by Games Workshop because the lore is that awesome

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    Half way through Betrayer. Best book since Fulgrim so far. Getting irritated when I have to put it down and do stuff in fact.

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    What would be the best title one to start with ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Avelynn View Post
    What would be the best title one to start with ?
    Probably Ravenor or Eisenhorn. You'll get to see a broad view of the universe and setting. They are also very good books, $10 get you 3 books in the omnibus + some short stories. Although I got started in 40k by picking up Horus Rising randomly at the local library one day, I haven't been able to put down 40k since lol.

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    Registered User OUAriakas's Avatar
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    I just finished Arihman:Exile and the Accursed Eternity battle book. Arihman book was disappointing because the entire book is him at the power level of an ordinary Librarian instead of a 10,000 year old pysker master and the reasoning isn't even very good. They tried to make him come across as a good anti-hero instead of letting him be a twisted badass like Sahaal from Lord of Night. Accursed Eternity was a fun but short read; if you pay more than 4 bucks for it I feel like it would be a ripoff. I'm about to start the latest HH book and really looking forward to it.
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    Gavinrad Sparklerad's Avatar
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    Eh, Epistolary level Librarians are immensely powerful. I'm guessing Ahriman is roughly on the same power level Chief Librarian Tigurius, maybe a bit stronger, even if GW goes out of their way to make the Ultramarines ridiculously overpowered, and Tigurius is considered to be one of the strongest psychics in the Imperium.

    Ahriman is more of an anti-hero than a sadistic villain. He seeks the downfall of the Imperium, but he and his warband, the Prodigal Sons, are outcasts from the Thousand Sons legion. While he bears the mark of Tzeentch, he doesn't consider himself to be a servant of Tzeentch and is far more concerned with his own goals than prosecuting the Long War.

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    Registered User Friday's Avatar
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    I started the Horus Heresy series last week. I'm running over to half-price today after class to see if they have Fulgrim. If not then B&B probably will.

    It's been a while since I read a 40k book and I'm forgetting why I stopped. I haven't able to put the series down.

    Also reading The Grey Knights Omnibus in-between books. The Ciaphas Cain books catch my eye everytime I'm at the book store. Are they worth the read?

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    Registered User Commander Vimeseh's Avatar
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    Ciaphas Cain books are probably my favorite 40K series. Still brings the 40k grit while being pretty humorous, and it is always nice to get a break from being inundated with space marine power levels every time I pick up a 40K book.

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    Registered User OUAriakas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taloo View Post
    Half way through Betrayer. Best book since Fulgrim so far. Getting irritated when I have to put it down and do stuff in fact.

    Christ Taloo, you were not lying. ADB has suprassed Abnett as my favorite BL author. He made you actually feel sorry for Angron and in turn the World Eaters for how he treated them. The afterword he wrote to explain they burden he takes on when he writes the primarchs' personalities. The Night of the Wolves flashbacks were fucking epic. Oh, and Kharn as a rational Astartes is a fantastic read when you know how his story eventually ends.
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    Gavinrad Sparklerad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUAriakas View Post
    Christ Taloo, you were not lying. ADB has suprassed Abnett as my favorite BL author. He made you actually feel sorry for Angron and in turn the World Eaters for how he treated them. The afterword he wrote to explain they burden he takes on when he writes the primarchs' personalities. The Night of the Wolves flashbacks were fucking epic. Oh, and Kharn as a rational Astartes is a fantastic read when you know how his story eventually ends.
    Most of the traitor legions have pretty tragic stories that explain why they sided with Horus against the Emperor. I'm still holding out hope that some day they finally stop teasing us and give a detailed account of what happened with the two lost legions.

    As for Dan Abnett, he gets credit for kicking off the series and really sort of setting the tone going forward, but his contributions to the series have been pretty meh. Aside from Horus Rising, he wrote Legion, which I initially thought was good but now I sort of hate the way they write the Alpha Legion, Prospero Burns, which was interesting seeing all the info about the pre-Heresy space wolves but ultimately had almost nothing to do with the title of the book, and Know No Fear in which he managed to make one of the most important battles of the entire civil war be completely bland and actionless. Abnett is amazing for Gaunt's Ghosts, Eisenhorn, and Ravenor, his Heresy books have been less than stellar.

    The three powerhouse books of the series so far (I'm behind and haven't read Angel Exterminatus or Betrayer yet) are definitely Fulgrim, A Thousand Sons, and The First Heretic, written by Graham McNeillx2 and Aaron Dembski-Bowden respectively. If Betrayer is anywhere near as good as The First Heretic, I'll definitely have to check out the Night Lords series. I also own Helsreach, his novel in the Space Marine Battles series, which was quite good.
    Last edited by Sparklerad; 02-28-2013 at 04:36 PM.

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    Registered User Julian the Apostate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fucker View Post
    trust me, if you are a fan of complex scifi settings, fantasy settings and general fan of shit-getting-blow-up you will simply lose yourself in it. 40k tabletop survived the competition, the broken rules, and the general bad handling by Games Workshop because the lore is that awesome
    Sounds like Malazan in a sci-fi setting. I'm in.
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    Honestly I like the Night Lords series better than Eisenhorn/Ravenor.

    Betrayer is probably my favorite book in the series at this point. I've read them all way too many times and if 1-3 could count as a single book nothing would ever come close but Betrayer is just such a great read.

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    Riddle me this... Jx3's Avatar
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    I'm seriously liking the way they are writing Rogal Dorn. He has these dreams as to what the Imperium should be and yet it seems like he constantly get kicked in the gut as to how it actually is. Nemesis really showed that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Julian the Apostate View Post
    Sounds like Malazan in a sci-fi setting. I'm in.
    as it was said many times in the old thread on FoH.org, 40k books quality depends of what author you are reading. Just go to www.blacklibrary.com and check them

    basically, you have to options as first approach:

    1) read the stories in the 41th millennium. It's the "present" time of warhammer40000

    My suggestions is to check the Gaunt's Ghosts books. Of all of them, they are the best as "first taste" and will give you a good picture of the Imperial Guard (the main army of the Imperium, composed by normal humans) and the general setting of this universe. You can find them into 3 omnibus (The Founding, The Saint (Omnibus) and The Lost)

    2) or start with the Horus Heresy serie. This serie talks about the 30th millennium and the Great Crusade, an event that has shaped the 40k universe like we see it today. If you are a fan, you know pretty much what is going to happend already because the stories are part of the lore, but the books are finally describing with details how and why everything went down the shitter and what role the major characters of that time had in it. Each group of books infact describe the story and actions of one of the 18 Primarchs

    the first 3 books are: Horus Rising, False Gods and Galaxy in Flames and focus on Horus

    Also.....use Lexicanum or Warhammer40000 wiki as a source of information while reading the books. Some of them are written with 40k fans in mind. They will mention events or characters you cant possibly know (for example, the Horus Heresy books are about the Space marines, but they wont tell you exactly what a spacemarine are, or how they are created....the wiki will cover these gaps)

    these are the suggestions i can give you. if you want to spoil yourself in the first page of this thread i have written a essay about the general history

    i'll leave you with a reply from Gravinrad that will help you if you chose to simply pick whatever book you like

    Quote Originally Posted by Gavinrad View Post
    The majority of the discussion in this thread is about the Horus Heresy, which takes place 10k years before the 'present day' of the 40k setting. You can't really go wrong starting on that, the first book is 'Horus Rising'. As for the modern day stuff, as long as you avoid certain authors (Mainly CS Goto and Henry Zhou) you can't really go too wrong. Graham Macneill and Dan Abnett are generally the best authors 40k has, it's hard to find something bad that they've written. But yeah, don't read anything by CS Goto or Henry Zhou. I'd also avoid Gav Thorpe, while he was a major contributor to the overall setting itself, his books are pretty lousy.
    Last edited by fucker; 03-01-2013 at 06:11 PM.

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    Riddle me this... Jx3's Avatar
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    Just got done with Brotherhood of the Storm. I liked it, it didnt hit you over the head with the constant Horus Heresy stuff. I would have liked it more if it was longer but I think I read too fast. Nice to see them getting around to the other First Founding legions. Heres hoping for an awesome Iron hands book.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jx3 View Post
    Just got done with Brotherhood of the Storm. I liked it, it didnt hit you over the head with the constant Horus Heresy stuff. I would have liked it more if it was longer but I think I read too fast. Nice to see them getting around to the other First Founding legions. Heres hoping for an awesome Iron hands book.
    I finished Brotherhood of the Storm last night also. Love that we got our first look at the White Scars and Jaghatai Khan and that thier legion thinks/acts so differently from the others. They really need to get a full novel out for every legion/primarch because the ones that have almost no back story are turning out to be their best characters.
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    I hope the next book is about the Salamanders legion and Vulkan because they are turning out to be one of my favorite legions so far. The tome of fire trilogy was a good read and would love to know what happened to Vulkan after the heresy. The tragedies surrounding the heretic legions and their primarchs are great to read about because it doesn't just make them mindless bad guys but instead there is a vaild reason behind their actions.

    Also the Night Lords trilogy is great. Especially loved Void Stalker.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gavinrad View Post
    As for Dan Abnett, he gets credit for kicking off the series and really sort of setting the tone going forward, but his contributions to the series have been pretty meh. Aside from Horus Rising, he wrote Legion, which I initially thought was good but now I sort of hate the way they write the Alpha Legion, Prospero Burns, which was interesting seeing all the info about the pre-Heresy space wolves but ultimately had almost nothing to do with the title of the book, and Know No Fear in which he managed to make one of the most important battles of the entire civil war be completely bland and actionless. Abnett is amazing for Gaunt's Ghosts, Eisenhorn, and Ravenor, his Heresy books have been less than stellar.

    The three powerhouse books of the series so far (I'm behind and haven't read Angel Exterminatus or Betrayer yet) are definitely Fulgrim, A Thousand Sons, and The First Heretic, written by Graham McNeillx2 and Aaron Dembski-Bowden respectively. If Betrayer is anywhere near as good as The First Heretic, I'll definitely have to check out the Night Lords series. I also own Helsreach, his novel in the Space Marine Battles series, which was quite good.
    I have to say, my opinions are the complete opposite of yours. Taste is taste of course and Abnett is by far my favorite author in the series. McNeill's books I actively despise. I think, since they write so completely differently, it is a matter of if you prefer one you probably don't like the other as much.

    Really, though, I find McNeil's books a complete chore and am usually bored to tears the entire way through; only reading them because I feel like I have to. His most egregious mistake being the entire timeline of The Outcast Dead is completely wrong, leaving me utterly baffled through the entire book. I kept re-reading old chapters thinking I missed something important. After I had finished the book, I looked it up online and confirmed that I wasn't crazy, it was just that he and apparently all of his editors had missed that the book completely jumbles events in the Heresy timeline to the point where the story makes no sense.

    I personally think Legion was the best book in the series closely followed by Prospero Burns. I also LOVE the Blood Games short story, and all three were written by Abnett. So, I guess what I am saying is, don't skip any, you might end up liking the authors other people don't.

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    Gavinrad Sparklerad's Avatar
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    I wasn't saying the Abnett books should be skipped, and yes, Blood Games is definitely my favorite of all the Heresy short stories, but the short stories are relatively unimportant.

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    I guess I just sort of have a thing for sort of self contained stories.

    Also I find myself disliking lots of science fiction other people like for some reason. For example, I can't stand Peter Hamilton's books. I think I just might be really picky with my fiction or something.

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    I'm a big fan of anything to do with these books, whether its the space marines, the orks, or the chaos marines and even the guard. Really good books. Ragnars my favorite though, i like his style.

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    hmm....i had a discussion with a friend the other day about the visions Horus has during his corruptions. i have my books digged down somewhere in my basament so i could not check but....are those visions real ? or everything was a fabrication ? the emperor really did not do anything to stop the warprift from trowing away the primarchs ?

    damn too much time is passed since i read them

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    Quote Originally Posted by fucker View Post
    hmm....i had a discussion with a friend the other day about the visions Horus has during his corruptions. i have my books digged down somewhere in my basament so i could not check but....are those visions real ? or everything was a fabrication ? the emperor really did not do anything to stop the warprift from trowing away the primarchs ?

    damn too much time is passed since i read them
    Real. He walked in on it happening. Weighed his options and chose to let it happen. Reasoning isn't explained but at that point the chaos gods haven't shrouded the future or whatever the fuck it is they do to make the smartest, future-seeingest person ever not realize his favorite freak baby is an emo faggot so it seemed like a good idea at the time.

    Also time portals and shit. Because magic. Argel Tal fucked up the incubators, Horus cracked one too. It's kinda retarded to be honest. I think so far there are three sets of people/primarchs who have been there while it happened at this point? Rooms getting fucking crowded.

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    never connected the thing with the idea that the whole HH and the 10k years of fascist imperium was all a "just as planned" plan-thing of the emperor

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    Quote Originally Posted by fucker View Post
    never connected the thing with the idea that the whole HH and the 10k years of fascist imperium was all a "just as planned" plan-thing of the emperor
    Is there a camp that think the Emporer planned on the HH happening and foresaw himself on the Golden Throne? Besides the obvious torture of the GT, I don't think he could have planned it since his ultimate goal was no belief and the eradicaiton of all other intelligent life. This would mean the Chaos gods have little to no power since the only beings that can fuel their power are either agnostic or completely atheist. The only good part about the God-Emporer phenomenon is that if he were to die and become a warp entity then his power would already be quite immense through all the worship he already receives.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUAriakas View Post
    Is there a camp that think the Emporer planned on the HH happening and foresaw himself on the Golden Throne? Besides the obvious torture of the GT, I don't think he could have planned it since his ultimate goal was no belief and the eradicaiton of all other intelligent life. This would mean the Chaos gods have little to no power since the only beings that can fuel their power are either agnostic or completely atheist. The only good part about the God-Emporer phenomenon is that if he were to die and become a warp entity then his power would already be quite immense through all the worship he already receives.
    Not that I'm aware. Things diverged from his plan during the Heresy. Didn't really understand what fucker was saying there in the context of a reply to what I posted.

  43. #43
    Gavinrad Sparklerad's Avatar
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    He flat out says he doesn't really know whats coming in The Outcast Dead.

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    yeah i did not read that book already, but what im talking about is just a hypotesys that the current Imperium was a planned thing the Emperor saw as necessary to really free humanity from the need of divinity

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    Registered User Friday's Avatar
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    I just read Descent of Angels. I thought it was great until the ending. Its like the author ran out of time and just summarized everything with no explanation. Pretty lame.

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    Mark of Calth has been meh so far. About half way in and just haven't cared enough to take the time to read it.

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    I've only read about half of the books, and I enjoy the scenes where the Emperor shows up immensely. You could even say I read the books just to catch glimpses of the Emperor. I find the character very interesting. That being said, should I go about reading the other half of the books? Or do they primarily focus on Horus and the Primarchs? Rather than the Emperor himself.

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    "half of the books" is a bit vague description of what you have read and what you haven't

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    Quote Originally Posted by fucker View Post
    "half of the books" is a bit vague description of what you have read and what you haven't

    Books read: 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 10, 12, 14, 15.

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    oh.....fuck.......oh fuck yes.....

    First up, we have some tidbits out of the Horus Heresy Weekender from Gav Thorpe who said that:

    "He wants to do a series about each Phoenix Lord and their experiences of the fall, similar to Primarches and the Heresy"
    http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2013/...ar-arrive.html

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    Gavinrad Sparklerad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fucker View Post
    As long as he doesn't write any of them, because his eldar books are among the worst 40k books in print, and that's saying something when you consider that C.S. Goto and Henry Zhou also write 40k books.


    Just finished reading Blood Pact and Salvation's Reach, I really feel like Abnett is setting the readers up for a really gut-wrenching end of the series. Like, Kolea, Tona, and Dalin all dying at the same time gut-wrenching. I mean he really was delivering some hard shots in Armour of Contempt and Only In Death, Blood Pact and Salvation's Reach seem very mild in comparison, so I assume he's planning on ending the series with some real nastiness.

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    So I just finished reading Horus Rising as my very first Warhammer 40K book. What is the order the Horus Heresy books should be read in? I'm having a hard time finding a proper list of them all. Is the series even done yet, I'm assuming they end with Horus vs. Jesus? Also, since I've heard a lot about some Warhammer 40K books being absolutely atrocious, which ones should just be skipped cause they are just bad?

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    Just follow the list on: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horus_H...els)#Published. Some are better than others but I would say overall, that most are pretty good except: Flight of the Eisenstein, Battle for the Abyss and The Outcast Dead.

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    Registered User Julian the Apostate's Avatar
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    Just finished Horus Rising as well. Loved it and can't wait to start he next one.
    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
    Bertrand Russell

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    False Gods is my prefered of the 3. it was fantastic see how everything spiraled out of control

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    Horus Rising is good. However don't just stick to that. Read Eisenhorn, Ravenor trilogies and if you want Gaunts Ghosts. Dan Abnett gets you into the setting and is fuck awesome.

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    yeah. Necropolis was the thing that got me into 40k (the next main factor was DoW1). i picked it out of curiosity when i found an old italian version in the "used" section of a local library (the old publisher stoped to distribute them so they are pretty rare in italy). i was simply blown away by it

    i still have a lot to read, but so far the only real terrible books i've read were the Dawn of War books from C.S. Goto. Avoid them like nurgle plague
    Last edited by fucker; 05-30-2013 at 06:37 PM.

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    Gavinrad Sparklerad's Avatar
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    C.S. Goto is definitely the worst author in the entire Black Library, although Henry Zhou is a strong contender.

    Dan Abnett and Graham McNeill are the two heavyweight authors in the Black Library, Aaron Dembski-Bowden is a rising star. Honestly, the only authors you really need to avoid are Goto, Zhou, and Gav Thorpe. Ben Counter has written some real shitfests, including what is arguably the single worst book of the entire Heresy series, but the Soul Drinkers series is fantastic imo. Basically, aside from the ones I mentioned by name, Black Library authors will generally deliver exactly what you'd expect for a sci-fi novel written in a pre-existing setting.

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    Some of Gav's stuff is good. The last chancers series is great despite the ending being sad times.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taloo View Post
    Some of Gav's stuff is good. The last chancers series is great despite the ending being sad times.
    you mean there are parts of 40k books that arent sad times?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taloo View Post
    Some of Gav's stuff is good. The last chancers series is great despite the ending being sad times.
    I own the Last Chancers omnibus. I thought the first one was fantastic and did a good job capturing the feel of a penal regiment in 40k, the second one was ok, but the third one was just so nonsensically stupid that it ruined the trilogy for me.

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    I know I am the exception here, but I really dislike Graham McNeill's books. In my opinion Dan Abnett (no surprise) is the shining star of the series, and I like Aaron Dembski-Bowden as well. Legion is probably my favorite, I'd love to see more Abnett books involving the Alpha Legion.

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    I can understand not liking the Ultramarines or Iron Warriors series, but Fulgrim and A Thousand Sons are unquestionably two of the best Heresy books, probably two of the top three, with the other being The First Heretic.

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    had to post it


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    Quote Originally Posted by Gavinrad View Post
    I can understand not liking the Ultramarines or Iron Warriors series, but Fulgrim and A Thousand Sons are unquestionably two of the best Heresy books, probably two of the top three, with the other being The First Heretic.
    Ultramarines series (in the HH)? Up until recently, it was just the abomination we of which we shall not speak and Know No Fear, which I really liked. I know a lot of people rag on them for being the definition of vanilla, but I kind of like that about them. No wulfen geneside curses, no fucked up disagreeable primarchs, no mindblowingly stupid decisions or inherent character faults, just despised by most of the other primarchs for being the largest legion by dint of being so clinically vanilla that it wins wars more efficiently than all others. I really dig the Theoretical/Practical approach, and warmed more to Guilliman when he become less of a robot in KNF and Betrayer.

    Plus:
    Spoiler: 
    he fought two fucking primarchs back to back (including arguably the best warrior of them all, Angron) without getting absolutely destroyed immediately


    Rant on why I'm gay for the Ultramarines HH novels aside, I enjoyed Mark of Calth, but mainly for the piece of awesome that got squeezed in completely unrelated to the Ultramarines: OLLANIUS FUCKING PERSSON. So glad Abnett brought Ollanius "Pius" Persson back, retconning the retcon of a retcon that removed him from probably the most epic moment of the entire Heresy.

    I expect to see more from him in the upcoming book Abnett's working on, Unremembered Empire. Cover art tells more of the story than anything else, but if I had to guess it deals with Guilliman setting up the Imperium Secundus centered around Ultramar as a backup plan with (possibly) Sanguinius as Emperor of the new Imperium should the big E, you know, end up getting his ass kicked. Either that or it has to deal with Sanguinius helping to counter Angron/Lorgar's Shadow Crusade.

    Unremembered.jpg

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    i love that cover so much....first time we have a direct and precise sense of scale about the primarchs height....fuck i would love to see them on screen

    one day i'll embark myself in my personal 3d modelling crusade and recreate this
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrathcaster View Post
    Ultramarines series (in the HH)? Up until recently, it was just the abomination we of which we shall not speak and Know No Fear, which I really liked. I know a lot of people rag on them for being the definition of vanilla, but I kind of like that about them. No wulfen geneside curses, no fucked up disagreeable primarchs, no mindblowingly stupid decisions or inherent character faults, just despised by most of the other primarchs for being the largest legion by dint of being so clinically vanilla that it wins wars more efficiently than all others. I really dig the Theoretical/Practical approach, and warmed more to Guilliman when he become less of a robot in KNF and Betrayer.

    Plus:
    Spoiler: 
    he fought two fucking primarchs back to back (including arguably the best warrior of them all, Angron) without getting absolutely destroyed immediately
    Ultramarines are my favorite Chapter. I said series, not books, as in I can understand people not liking the Ultramarines series. I didn't say anything about the Heresy books. While Battle for the Abyss has been pretty universally panned as the absolute worst book in the Heresy series, I thought Know No Fear was pretty fucking awful. Nothing happens in the book, it's nothing but filler. In fact it was basically the exact same amount of terrible as Abnett's previous book for the series, Prospero Burns. In fact, I didn't like Legion either, so I guess the only Heresy book of Abnett's that I like is Horus Rising.
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    Retarded Fucktard Wrathcaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gavinrad View Post
    Ultramarines are my favorite Chapter. I said series, not books, as in I can understand people not liking the Ultramarines series. I didn't say anything about the Heresy books. While Battle for the Abyss has been pretty universally panned as the absolute worst book in the Heresy series, I thought Know No Fear was pretty fucking awful. Nothing happens in the book, it's nothing but filler. In fact it was basically the exact same amount of terrible as Abnett's previous book for the series, Prospero Burns. In fact, I didn't like Legion either, so I guess the only Heresy book of Abnett's that I like is Horus Rising.
    Nothing happened? What about that whole "massive battle between two of the biggest legions" thing that went on? I admit if you've already read up on the HH, you know about it beforehand, but I'd consider that a pretty major event. And, of course, Ollanius motherfucking Persson.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrathcaster View Post
    Nothing happened? What about that whole "massive battle between two of the biggest legions" thing that went on? I admit if you've already read up on the HH, you know about it beforehand, but I'd consider that a pretty major event. And, of course, Ollanius motherfucking Persson.
    There was no massive battle between two of the biggest legions in Know No Fear. There was a bunch of unconnected short stories that were set to the backdrop of the invasion of Calth, an invasion that was somehow still a huge surprise despite the destruction of the Furious Abyss. I knew that the Word Bearers attacked the Ultramarines at Calth to keep them out of the fight from Earth, I've been a 40k nut since I first learned about the game in 2nd ed. I was expecting something epic on the scale of, say, the similarly epic battle for Signus Prime detailed in Fear To Tread. Know No Fear was a massive disappointment of a book that had basically nothing to do with the Battle of Calth, just like Prospero Burns had basically nothing to do with the Battle of Prospero.
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    Retarded Fucktard Wrathcaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gavinrad View Post
    There was no massive battle between two of the biggest legions in Know No Fear. There was a bunch of unconnected short stories that were set to the backdrop of the invasion of Calth, an invasion that was somehow still a huge surprise despite the destruction of the Furious Abyss. I knew that the Word Bearers attacked the Ultramarines at Calth to keep them out of the fight from Earth, I've been a 40k nut since I first learned about the game in 2nd ed. I was expecting something epic on the scale of, say, the similarly epic battle for Signus Prime detailed in Fear To Tread. Know No Fear was a massive disappointment of a book that had basically nothing to do with the Battle of Calth, just like Prospero Burns had basically nothing to do with the Battle of Prospero.
    I fail to see how a book that details solely the battle being fought planetside and in space between thousands of capital ships, hundreds of thousands of marines, and extremely detailed descriptions of the war happening on the tactical scale across multiple theaters isn't epic in scale. FFS the Ventanus arc alone is about nothing else but the war on the ground for Calth, complete with thousands of legionaries supported by ultra heavy armor, titans, greater daemons, and orbital strikes.

    What exactly did you think Know No Fear was about, if you say that it's not about the Battle of Calth? Because the entire book takes place on Calth or above Calth, and describes pretty much every aspect of how the battle was fought and won, from the metaphysical to the practical. If you're unhappy that it seems to be disconnected short stories, I'd be very interested to know how you describe a global conflict in any other way. If it just followed Ventanus, you'd only get the Erud muster/Governor's Palace/fight for the data engines in Numinus City. If it just followed Guilliman, you'd just have him being sucked into space (which admittedly, was fairly retarded) and then trying to figure out wtf was going on and coordinating the war on the ground. If it just followed Erebus, we'd only get a bunch of shit about daemon summoning and warp storms. See where I'm going?

    Only real arc I can surmise is pretty much disconnected to everything else is Pius's deal with Grammaticus and trying to escape, but that at least brought back a really cool twist on the Horus/Emperor fight.

    EDIT: All the debate on Know No Fear aside, have you been through all the Garro audiobooks? I pretty much despise audiobooks but I am interested to know what happened with Garro after the Eisenstein debacle and starting up what I assume is the precursor to the Grey Knights/Inquisition. I never checked it out, but I'd be willing to if it was passable/interesting lore. Are they worth it?
    Last edited by Wrathcaster; 07-25-2013 at 08:09 AM.

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    i still have to read Prospero Burns. This is not the first time you guys say how the title is missleading

    is it really that bad ?

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    Gavinrad Sparklerad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fucker View Post
    i still have to read Prospero Burns. This is not the first time you guys say how the title is missleading

    is it really that bad ?
    I'm being a little harsh. The book isn't completely terrible, but it really has almost nothing to do with the conflict on Prospero. It's mostly a bunch of back story to the pre-Heresy Space Wolves. Parts of it are really really stupid though.

    @Wrathcaster

    We'll just have to agree to disagree on Know No Fear, but again, Fear To Tread is how you do an epic battle while telling the tale from multiple PoVs. As for the Garro audiobooks, I haven't had the chance to listen to them but I've heard good things about most of the Heresy audiobooks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gavinrad View Post
    I'm being a little harsh. The book isn't completely terrible, but it really has almost nothing to do with the conflict on Prospero. It's mostly a bunch of back story to the pre-Heresy Space Wolves. Parts of it are really really stupid though.

    @Wrathcaster

    We'll just have to agree to disagree on Know No Fear, but again, Fear To Tread is how you do an epic battle while telling the tale from multiple PoVs. As for the Garro audiobooks, I haven't had the chance to listen to them but I've heard good things about most of the Heresy audiobooks.
    fucker- he's spot on about Prospero Burns. I wouldn't say it's a bad book per se, but I was expecting the battle for, you know, Prospero. Instead that was in A Thousand Sons. Prospero burns is this weird disjointed tale following some random guy in a bunch of random places over a long time, and ends up leaving you thinking, to sum it up wtf did I just read?

    @ Gavinrad

    Yeah, I liked the Fear to Tread approach and I liked the book overall. But I felt like the conflict on Signus Prime was more centralized, with a giant mass of legionaries vs. a giant mass of cultists/daemons meeting head on in a relatively local scale, right in front of the Cathedral of the Mark. They didn't have to deal with linking up their forces because the rest of the planet was dead and there were no other strategic objectives other than "kill the dudes infront of the tower, then kill the dudes inside the tower". Also, the entirety of their fleet wasn't completely disabled from the outset, which doesn't divide the reader's attention between the ground war and the space war, since the most you get out of it is "the fleet is holding it's own" or "the space war is still going on." There's none of this business with scrapcode or logistics or lack of data, either, which was a bit annoyingly distracting.

    Still, if you're looking for a tale of massive armies clashing, Fear to Tread is definitely the better book for that. The Battle of Calth involves thousands of legionaries and superheavy armor and titans, but they're spread all over the continent or in orbit, so you don't get the luxury of a consolidated battle. I'll concede that much, and if that's what you prefer, fair enough.

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    Prospero Burns is mostly about who the heresy era space wolves were and how they thought. It explains that while Russ though Magnus was probably fucking around with things he really shouldn't be messing with he neither hated him nor even bore him any ill will. He was the ultimate sanction and does what is asked of him despite the fact that he would have given anything to avoid that outcome. It's another novel that tries to explain what lead these unbelievably intelligent and noble post human demi-gods to destroy what may well have been the closest thing to utopia it's possible to attain within the rules of that universe.

    I imagine a lot of people took issue with the fact that it kind of has the same feel as Legion where you are actually following the story of a random human rather than reading about Russ raping the fuck out of a city full of philosopher-warriors. Which was a book that it was entirely reasonable to expect. The difference being Legion wasn't meant to be a book about one of the pivotal stories in 40k lore.

    Personally I loved it and without risking spoilers I can't say much more than I already have. It's a little much to expect an entire heresy novel to be almost entirely about a battle that lasted less than a day and took place in a single city. So that's not what I expected and I was quite pleased with both novels and their convergent stories.

    Edit** I didn't bother to read back to where it was mentioned but I know I'm not alone in thinking The Outcast Dead topped Battle for the Abyss as worst novel so far. Abyss is better off forgotten beyond the ship itself existing of course but for the life of me I can't even fathom what if anything The Outcast Dead was even trying to accomplish beyond The Emperor knowing he might lose and there still being a couple thunder warriors kicking around which has lead nowhere so far. Fucking awful book. Jail break in the Imperial Palace, astartes wearing armor made from scrap metal managing to stay hidden in the single most fortified place in the god damn galaxy with two fucking psykers in their group? For really reals? Fucking stupid as shit.
    Last edited by Taloo; 07-26-2013 at 02:17 AM.

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    Registered User Sacel's Avatar
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    Soul Drinker's Omnibus was an abysmal read. It was so poorly written that it took supreme will just to get to page 200. I threw that pos into the Goodwill box.
    Fuck. still rustled from it. So bad. it was.

    Edit: I've heard the books can get bad. But I've read 8 or so so far and nothing has been like this. Almost traumatizing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taloo View Post
    I didn't bother to read back to where it was mentioned but I know I'm not alone in thinking The Outcast Dead topped Battle for the Abyss as worst novel so far. Abyss is better off forgotten beyond the ship itself existing of course but for the life of me I can't even fathom what if anything The Outcast Dead was even trying to accomplish beyond The Emperor knowing he might lose and there still being a couple thunder warriors kicking around which has lead nowhere so far. Fucking awful book. Jail break in the Imperial Palace, astartes wearing armor made from scrap metal managing to stay hidden in the single most fortified place in the god damn galaxy with two fucking psykers in their group? For really reals? Fucking stupid as shit.
    Dude, you read my mind. After I got done with Outcast Dead I was like... What the fuck? Why the shit was this even written? Who gives two shits about a thunder warrior who dies anyway? And the revelation is that the Emp knows he might lose? He's the single most powerful psyker in the galaxy OF COURSE HE FUCKING HAS A HINT. FFS ten thousand years later people use a goddamned deck of cards to tell the future on the off chance it's him giving you a stock tip or something.

    Nemesis kinda bugged me too, but wasn't as bad as Outcast Dead. Basically just because nothing really significant happens in Nemesis at all. The whole story is pretty much pointless, and is just fap material for people who like assassin kill teams. The ending is particularly lame as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacel View Post
    Soul Drinker's Omnibus was an abysmal read. It was so poorly written that it took supreme will just to get to page 200. I threw that pos into the Goodwill box.
    Fuck. still rustled from it. So bad. it was.

    Edit: I've heard the books can get bad. But I've read 8 or so so far and nothing has been like this. Almost traumatizing.
    Meh. Chapter War, Hellforged, and Phalanx are really good imo, even if the series started out kinda rough. Ultramarines series is the same, the series starts out pretty rough but after the first three it really picks up. Ben Counter is probably the least consistent author in the Black Library. The first two Grey Knights books basically come across as fan-fic that got published, but Hammer of Daemons is a much more interesting and engaging read. Ben Counter also has the unfortunate distinction of having written Battle for the Abyss, which might be why he hasn't been called upon to write another Heresy novel since.
    Last edited by Sparklerad; 07-27-2013 at 03:16 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrathcaster View Post

    I expect to see more from him in the upcoming book Abnett's working on, Unremembered Empire. Cover art tells more of the story than anything else, but if I had to guess it deals with Guilliman setting up the Imperium Secundus centered around Ultramar as a backup plan with (possibly) Sanguinius as Emperor of the new Imperium should the big E, you know, end up getting his ass kicked. Either that or it has to deal with Sanguinius helping to counter Angron/Lorgar's Shadow Crusade.

    Unremembered.jpg
    I find it fascinating that Gulliman would want Sanguinus to be the new Emperor. Of all the Primarchs, Gulliman was pretty much the only one to build a successful interstellar empire, and he did so long before the emperor found him. Gulliman screams Emperor v2.0 to me, not Sanguinus. I'm curious as to his reasons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrathcaster View Post
    Nemesis kinda bugged me too, but wasn't as bad as Outcast Dead. Basically just because nothing really significant happens in Nemesis at all. The whole story is pretty much pointless, and is just fap material for people who like assassin kill teams. The ending is particularly lame as well.
    Spoilers ahead.

    I didn't dislike Nemesis. I think it was probably a story better suited to being told in parts via the anthologies but I don't take issue with it standing alone. From a lore standpoint the clades are something that would have to be addressed in some way. It also moved the story along some but you have to read between the lines a bit. It's pretty well established at this point that the seeds of the HH started with Kor Phaeron, Erebus, Typhon, and a few others manipulating events and sowing dissent. The ending is maybe not needed but does shore up the fact that as time goes on the architects are losing control of their creation. It shows that Horus is getting farther and farther away from allowing Erebus to have input much less orchestrate events.

    I don't know if it's intentional but it can be taken as evidence that Erebus and the powers he represents gives zero shit about anything but the emperor being stopped before whatever plans he is pursuing reach fruition. It's entirely plausible that Spear could have destroyed Terra, perhaps more. In which case baring regions like Ultramar there is no more galaxy to rule. There is no astronomicon, the future of the navigator gene now relies on the half dead, drained individuals that are your only real means of doing anything with the legions of military forces that mostly hate each other scattered across the galaxy. Interstellar communication may no longer be possible as well. There's no more soul binding of astropaths. The final night lords novel implies that without an organised system for the routing of messages it just doesn't really work. In the same novel they cripple a large section of the galaxy by overloading a node with psychic anguish. The need to capture rather than destroy Terra is extremely important for the lore to make any damn sense. Otherwise just smuggle a few virus bombs down there while the custodose are busy trying to find a couple space marines wearing pots and pans.

    But yeah it doesn't sit right with me just yet. "Why can't I assassinate the emperor Horus? Because I'm the only one allowed to kill him faggot. Now lets continue with plan destroy the palace and kill the emperor while I sit in orbit on my ship letting someone else kill him as per all existing lore." I mean it's a pretty shoddy job of tying up loose ends that need some explaining but does do some work to establish what the people without bolters were doing.



    To address Drez, Sanguinius is literally described as the primarch who has their fathers "soul" and the only plausible choice to carry on in his stead should the need arise. His compassion and desire for a better, brighter future for the human race being key qualities. Gulliman is peerless organizer and masterful tactician but he doesn't have the passion to forge the destiny of the race. Building Ultramar was not something he did out of a conscious desire to provide for his people and greate an empire of his own but rather the natural result of what he does best. He would be the Malcadore to Sanguinius's Emperor sans intrigue and shadow play basically.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grez View Post
    I find it fascinating that Gulliman would want Sanguinus to be the new Emperor. Of all the Primarchs, Gulliman was pretty much the only one to build a successful interstellar empire, and he did so long before the emperor found him. Gulliman screams Emperor v2.0 to me, not Sanguinus. I'm curious as to his reasons.
    when asked who should have been the Warmaster instead of him, Horus said this. You find this quote in False Gods

    “Sanguinius. It should have been him. He has the vision and strength to carry us to victory, and the wisdom to rule once victory is won. For all his aloof coolness, he alone has the Emperor's soul in his blood. Each of us carries part of our father within us, whether it is his hunger for battle, his psychic talent or his determination to succeed. Sanguinius holds it all. It should have been his...”

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    Retarded Fucktard Wrathcaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grez View Post
    I find it fascinating that Gulliman would want Sanguinus to be the new Emperor. Of all the Primarchs, Gulliman was pretty much the only one to build a successful interstellar empire, and he did so long before the emperor found him. Gulliman screams Emperor v2.0 to me, not Sanguinus. I'm curious as to his reasons.
    In Know No Fear, it details how none of the other primarchs really trust Guilliman because they always wonder what he's going to get out of working with them. He's also too cold and clinical, not charismatic like Horus and his approach to logistics and empire-building probably irks the others, who likely see him as trying to set up his own empire (which he is essentially). He's the most successful primarch, arguably, but only has 4 friends out of all of them: Ferrus, Dorn, Horus, and Sanguinius.

    Sanguinius, on the other hand, is pretty much universally respected and admired by all the primarchs. Never in the whole of the HH books do you really see any primarch or anyone else for that matter disparage or insult Sanguinius, because he was just that charismatic, and also possibly the best warrior of them all. Guilliman would know this, he would know that if any other primarch could have been chosen as Warmaster, it would have been Sanguinius, and even Horus believed Sanguinius should be Warmaster.

    No other primarch has true rivalries with the Blood Angels or any quarrel with Sanguinius, so he'd be the perfect unifying force should the Emperor fail, if for no other reason than his stature as a figurehead and symbol of greatness.

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    Vulkan Lives and Corax : Soulforge are "available" just as a heads up. Ton of Novellas "available" as well. I swear to god theblacklibrary.com is the most worthless fucking retail website in the world. Can't find shit for information there on upcoming releases and 95% of the time fucking lexicanum is more accurate and up to date on release dates.

    Only about a third of the way through Vulkan lives but nothing to write home about so far.

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    Μολών Λαβέ Beef Supreme's Avatar
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    My friends find it heretical, but I very dearly wish to see the Primarchs come back. I know part of what makes them so interesting is that they, along with the Emperor (pre-HH Emperor) are so shrouded in mystery they become akin to the Olympian gods.

    I would really like to see a second great crusade.

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    why you need Primarchs when you have already Draigo ? he carved his name into a Demon-Primarch heard for fuck sake and devastated nurgle forest just for fun

    Primarchs are pussies

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    Μολών Λαβέ Beef Supreme's Avatar
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    Draigo is lost in the warp.

    Grey Knights are almost mini-Primarchs anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beef Supreme View Post
    Draigo is lost in the warp.

    Grey Knights are almost mini-Primarchs anyway.
    Not even close really. At least from a lore standpoint since whatever the heresy era supplement they released was called put Fulgrims toughness at 6 or some other such ridiculous shit. 2nd edition Chaos codex has princes with stats above 10 and you can't do the same for the goddamn primachs? Anyways rant over. 109 Terminators v Angron (post heresy/prince...hood?) and 12 Bloodthirsters got their shit wrecked. The 13 that lived did so thanks only to deus ex machina. The only beings comparable to big names in lore are big names in lore.

    Of course last time I followed table top rules I got the impression 500 points of Grey Knights could have killed The Emperor at his prime. So yeah, fuck it!

    While I would also like to see the "surviving" primarchs brought into contemporary lore in some way it will never happen. Hints and allusions are all we will ever get. They are kind of the only thing left when it comes to mysteries and things left unresolved. If they brought them back there's nothing left to tease. Maybe if GW ever gets ready to close their doors we might see them come back for the last lore hurrah but not until then and I don't see that happening anytime soon. The hints here and there are probably more "fun" anyways ala lore verified healing of wounds while in a stasis field in Angel Exterminatus and the rumors of Gulliman slowly healing in his field etc.

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    Registered User Angelwatch's Avatar
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    I like Abnett's books but I always feel that he needs another 100 pages to finish up his stories. Every single one feels rushed at the end.

    The Eisenhorn books are great. Not by Abnett but the first two Last Chancers are also really good but the third (and last one) was pretty much garbage.

    It's not really supported anymore but my friends and I loved Battlefleet Gothic as our tabletop game of choice. I had a Chaos fleet, one friend had an Imperial Guard fleet and another friend had a Dark Eldar fleet. Necrons were cool but way too overpowered. Nobody really dug the Tyrannids.

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    Riddle me this... Jx3's Avatar
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    I'm liking the heresy era novels. Nice to see the White Scars get some love.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beef Supreme View Post
    My friends find it heretical, but I very dearly wish to see the Primarchs come back. I know part of what makes them so interesting is that they, along with the Emperor (pre-HH Emperor) are so shrouded in mystery they become akin to the Olympian gods.

    I would really like to see a second great crusade.
    Will probably never happen simply for the fact that Games Workshop has time and time again refused to advance the story any further than it is currently, and kept left the universe in stasis. Most certainly has to do with selling miniatures.

    Several loyalist Primarchs are speculated to return when the final apocalyptic battle for the Imperium comes about, essentially the end of mankind as we know it. Leman Russ ventured into the Eye of Terror to hunt the Thousand Sons and other traitors, vowing never to return until the end times. Same story essentially for Vulkan, Corax, and the Khan. It's speculated that Guilliman is slowly healing even in stasis, and the Lion is sleeping deep in The Rock. Essentially, the only Primarchs that are truly gone are Sanguinius, Dorn, and Ferrus Manus, who are all dead and there's not even speculation or hints that they'd come back. FFS Ferrus doesn't even have a head.

    The Primarchs are so OP that it'd probably ruin the tabletop game, and if they were all back and fought the last battle, the 40k universe as we know it would be done.

    That said, I think if they ever did actually advance the lore to this point, you'd see them all come back, the Astronomicon fail and the Emperor reincarnate. The Eldar as a species and will all die and birth a new god in the warp, and it'd essentially be the forces of order or those with faith in the Emperor vs. Chaos and aliens. However, they've set it up now where the true and gravest threat isn't Chaos, but the Tyranids, who are being drawn to Terra because of the Astronomicon. They can't keep all the factions relevant if they have the end battle as they've set it up now.

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    so, in essence, wh40k storyline is heading into a massive galaxywide royal rumble between Imperium with revived emperor and primarchs starting a new great crusade, the eldar god of death fucking shit up, necrons going around killing ppl from the 11th dimension, orks mounting a galaxywide WAAAGH!!, Chaos going for it for the 14th time, and the tyranid going full omnomnomnomnomnomnom ?

    i like this plan

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    Games Workshop has been smart in that current 40k is a setting and not an overall storyline.

    There has been speculation that the Horus Heresy series will last around 50 total novels before it finishes, which puts us around the halfway point. Black Library has said they want to start another massive series, such as the Fall of the Eldar. There has also been talk of a series focused on the Scouring.

    Keep in mind Black Library and Games Workshop are set up for the long haul. WH40k fiction is enormously lucrative - Black Library is one of the most profitable GW divisions, if you dig into GW's financial reports. They are unlikely to rock the boat too much.

    If you want to see a company that destroyed itself by advancing the storyline too far, take a look at White Wolf's original World of Darkness. It was one of the premiere roleplaying game lines in the world, and enormously successful. Vampire the Masquerade defined the gritty urban vampire archetype. For a number of reasons, one of which was advancing the storyline so far that it had to end, White Wolf basically shot itself in the foot. It has never been as successful or as popular as it was ten years ago.

    Games Workshop is not going to make that same mistake.

  92. #92
    Astr0creep of Sports
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    Honestly, they don't even need to advance the plot to bring back Primarchs.
    I finished Ahriman Exile by John French a couple of weeks ago, and liked it, specially since it was not what i expected.

    You could write a trilogy just for Magnus and not change the lore.... i mean look at "Demon World"

    I'd love to see a lot more of Angron, i found it awesome in some of the HH books to see how his brothers look at him.
    The admiration (i'll even call it that) for his strength, their pity for a broken being, his past, his betrayal by the Emperor.
    As a legion World Eaters have zero interest, but "how they became what they are", now that....

    I've devoured 15-20 books and 200+ ebooks, and still crave more
    Last edited by EmiliaEQ; 09-22-2013 at 05:26 PM.

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    not to mention that, unlike Failbaddon, when Angron gets to work, shit like 2 SM chapters obliterated happends

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    Cock Scientist Chris's Avatar
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    They have powered up some of the xenos, such as Necrons... so a new crusade storyline could work with Tyranids ect fighting at full force.

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    did not read the new codex, but how they managed to powerup the necrons ? they pretty much were invincible already

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    Gave them a Queen! Now they are all angsty

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    Idgaf about Eldar, so a heresy-like series holds no interest to me. I like the SM (even most of the poorly written ones) and IG setting books, and they tend to be the ones best written, contradiction I know.

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    They could make a 20 Book series about the craftworlds & the fall, that would be cool too.

    I just finished "WE ARE ONE" and it is the most fucking epic 25 pages you will ever read in your entire life.
    I always found the Alpha Legion very interesting, but we never see anything about them...
    Except the little story about that geneseed theft & the reasons they turned, but this... this... this was Legendary !

  99. #99
    Retarded Fucktard Wrathcaster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
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    nowhereland
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    332
    Tuconots
    3
    Anyone checked out the new HH that's come out lately?

    Scars Series: Fairly awesome.

    Vulkan Lives: Abysmal piece of shit warranting the execution of Nick Kyme. Seriously, this thing is terrible. If you're some weird person who for whatever reason HATES Vulkan, then yeah this is your book.

    Spoiler: 
    A good 3/4ths of the material with Vulkan in it are just pages and pages full of descriptions of him getting brutally tortured. Seriously. Many, many chapters, devoted solely to torture and nothing else, and then a retardedly retarded reveal that snuff novel fuckass felt he should insert to justify/redeem his sadistic drivel.

  100. #100
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
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    Florida
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    Tuconots
    -11
    Fuck scars till it's done. Unremembered Empire is available. 1/3rd to 1/2 done with it. Kinda impossible to comment without spoilers since its 100% new ground. Not sure if I like it or not but it's keeping me interested.

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