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Thread: Warhammer 40,000 Novels

  1. #61
    Gavinrad Gavinmad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taloo View Post
    Some of Gav's stuff is good. The last chancers series is great despite the ending being sad times.
    I own the Last Chancers omnibus. I thought the first one was fantastic and did a good job capturing the feel of a penal regiment in 40k, the second one was ok, but the third one was just so nonsensically stupid that it ruined the trilogy for me.

  2. #62
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    I know I am the exception here, but I really dislike Graham McNeill's books. In my opinion Dan Abnett (no surprise) is the shining star of the series, and I like Aaron Dembski-Bowden as well. Legion is probably my favorite, I'd love to see more Abnett books involving the Alpha Legion.

  3. #63
    Gavinrad Gavinmad's Avatar
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    I can understand not liking the Ultramarines or Iron Warriors series, but Fulgrim and A Thousand Sons are unquestionably two of the best Heresy books, probably two of the top three, with the other being The First Heretic.

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    had to post it


  5. #65
    Retarded Fucktard Wrathcaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gavinrad View Post
    I can understand not liking the Ultramarines or Iron Warriors series, but Fulgrim and A Thousand Sons are unquestionably two of the best Heresy books, probably two of the top three, with the other being The First Heretic.
    Ultramarines series (in the HH)? Up until recently, it was just the abomination we of which we shall not speak and Know No Fear, which I really liked. I know a lot of people rag on them for being the definition of vanilla, but I kind of like that about them. No wulfen geneside curses, no fucked up disagreeable primarchs, no mindblowingly stupid decisions or inherent character faults, just despised by most of the other primarchs for being the largest legion by dint of being so clinically vanilla that it wins wars more efficiently than all others. I really dig the Theoretical/Practical approach, and warmed more to Guilliman when he become less of a robot in KNF and Betrayer.

    Plus:
    Spoiler: 
    he fought two fucking primarchs back to back (including arguably the best warrior of them all, Angron) without getting absolutely destroyed immediately


    Rant on why I'm gay for the Ultramarines HH novels aside, I enjoyed Mark of Calth, but mainly for the piece of awesome that got squeezed in completely unrelated to the Ultramarines: OLLANIUS FUCKING PERSSON. So glad Abnett brought Ollanius "Pius" Persson back, retconning the retcon of a retcon that removed him from probably the most epic moment of the entire Heresy.

    I expect to see more from him in the upcoming book Abnett's working on, Unremembered Empire. Cover art tells more of the story than anything else, but if I had to guess it deals with Guilliman setting up the Imperium Secundus centered around Ultramar as a backup plan with (possibly) Sanguinius as Emperor of the new Imperium should the big E, you know, end up getting his ass kicked. Either that or it has to deal with Sanguinius helping to counter Angron/Lorgar's Shadow Crusade.

    Unremembered.jpg

  6. #66
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    i love that cover so much....first time we have a direct and precise sense of scale about the primarchs height....fuck i would love to see them on screen

    one day i'll embark myself in my personal 3d modelling crusade and recreate this
    Attached Images Attached Images

  7. #67
    Gavinrad Gavinmad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrathcaster View Post
    Ultramarines series (in the HH)? Up until recently, it was just the abomination we of which we shall not speak and Know No Fear, which I really liked. I know a lot of people rag on them for being the definition of vanilla, but I kind of like that about them. No wulfen geneside curses, no fucked up disagreeable primarchs, no mindblowingly stupid decisions or inherent character faults, just despised by most of the other primarchs for being the largest legion by dint of being so clinically vanilla that it wins wars more efficiently than all others. I really dig the Theoretical/Practical approach, and warmed more to Guilliman when he become less of a robot in KNF and Betrayer.

    Plus:
    Spoiler: 
    he fought two fucking primarchs back to back (including arguably the best warrior of them all, Angron) without getting absolutely destroyed immediately
    Ultramarines are my favorite Chapter. I said series, not books, as in I can understand people not liking the Ultramarines series. I didn't say anything about the Heresy books. While Battle for the Abyss has been pretty universally panned as the absolute worst book in the Heresy series, I thought Know No Fear was pretty fucking awful. Nothing happens in the book, it's nothing but filler. In fact it was basically the exact same amount of terrible as Abnett's previous book for the series, Prospero Burns. In fact, I didn't like Legion either, so I guess the only Heresy book of Abnett's that I like is Horus Rising.
    Quote Originally Posted by suineg View Post
    I like that in EVE Online there are more losses in one day than Brad can raise for his MMO in a week.

  8. #68
    Retarded Fucktard Wrathcaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gavinrad View Post
    Ultramarines are my favorite Chapter. I said series, not books, as in I can understand people not liking the Ultramarines series. I didn't say anything about the Heresy books. While Battle for the Abyss has been pretty universally panned as the absolute worst book in the Heresy series, I thought Know No Fear was pretty fucking awful. Nothing happens in the book, it's nothing but filler. In fact it was basically the exact same amount of terrible as Abnett's previous book for the series, Prospero Burns. In fact, I didn't like Legion either, so I guess the only Heresy book of Abnett's that I like is Horus Rising.
    Nothing happened? What about that whole "massive battle between two of the biggest legions" thing that went on? I admit if you've already read up on the HH, you know about it beforehand, but I'd consider that a pretty major event. And, of course, Ollanius motherfucking Persson.

  9. #69
    Gavinrad Gavinmad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrathcaster View Post
    Nothing happened? What about that whole "massive battle between two of the biggest legions" thing that went on? I admit if you've already read up on the HH, you know about it beforehand, but I'd consider that a pretty major event. And, of course, Ollanius motherfucking Persson.
    There was no massive battle between two of the biggest legions in Know No Fear. There was a bunch of unconnected short stories that were set to the backdrop of the invasion of Calth, an invasion that was somehow still a huge surprise despite the destruction of the Furious Abyss. I knew that the Word Bearers attacked the Ultramarines at Calth to keep them out of the fight from Earth, I've been a 40k nut since I first learned about the game in 2nd ed. I was expecting something epic on the scale of, say, the similarly epic battle for Signus Prime detailed in Fear To Tread. Know No Fear was a massive disappointment of a book that had basically nothing to do with the Battle of Calth, just like Prospero Burns had basically nothing to do with the Battle of Prospero.
    Quote Originally Posted by suineg View Post
    I like that in EVE Online there are more losses in one day than Brad can raise for his MMO in a week.

  10. #70
    Retarded Fucktard Wrathcaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gavinrad View Post
    There was no massive battle between two of the biggest legions in Know No Fear. There was a bunch of unconnected short stories that were set to the backdrop of the invasion of Calth, an invasion that was somehow still a huge surprise despite the destruction of the Furious Abyss. I knew that the Word Bearers attacked the Ultramarines at Calth to keep them out of the fight from Earth, I've been a 40k nut since I first learned about the game in 2nd ed. I was expecting something epic on the scale of, say, the similarly epic battle for Signus Prime detailed in Fear To Tread. Know No Fear was a massive disappointment of a book that had basically nothing to do with the Battle of Calth, just like Prospero Burns had basically nothing to do with the Battle of Prospero.
    I fail to see how a book that details solely the battle being fought planetside and in space between thousands of capital ships, hundreds of thousands of marines, and extremely detailed descriptions of the war happening on the tactical scale across multiple theaters isn't epic in scale. FFS the Ventanus arc alone is about nothing else but the war on the ground for Calth, complete with thousands of legionaries supported by ultra heavy armor, titans, greater daemons, and orbital strikes.

    What exactly did you think Know No Fear was about, if you say that it's not about the Battle of Calth? Because the entire book takes place on Calth or above Calth, and describes pretty much every aspect of how the battle was fought and won, from the metaphysical to the practical. If you're unhappy that it seems to be disconnected short stories, I'd be very interested to know how you describe a global conflict in any other way. If it just followed Ventanus, you'd only get the Erud muster/Governor's Palace/fight for the data engines in Numinus City. If it just followed Guilliman, you'd just have him being sucked into space (which admittedly, was fairly retarded) and then trying to figure out wtf was going on and coordinating the war on the ground. If it just followed Erebus, we'd only get a bunch of shit about daemon summoning and warp storms. See where I'm going?

    Only real arc I can surmise is pretty much disconnected to everything else is Pius's deal with Grammaticus and trying to escape, but that at least brought back a really cool twist on the Horus/Emperor fight.

    EDIT: All the debate on Know No Fear aside, have you been through all the Garro audiobooks? I pretty much despise audiobooks but I am interested to know what happened with Garro after the Eisenstein debacle and starting up what I assume is the precursor to the Grey Knights/Inquisition. I never checked it out, but I'd be willing to if it was passable/interesting lore. Are they worth it?
    Last edited by Wrathcaster; 07-25-2013 at 09:09 AM.

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    i still have to read Prospero Burns. This is not the first time you guys say how the title is missleading

    is it really that bad ?

  12. #72
    Gavinrad Gavinmad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fucker View Post
    i still have to read Prospero Burns. This is not the first time you guys say how the title is missleading

    is it really that bad ?
    I'm being a little harsh. The book isn't completely terrible, but it really has almost nothing to do with the conflict on Prospero. It's mostly a bunch of back story to the pre-Heresy Space Wolves. Parts of it are really really stupid though.

    @Wrathcaster

    We'll just have to agree to disagree on Know No Fear, but again, Fear To Tread is how you do an epic battle while telling the tale from multiple PoVs. As for the Garro audiobooks, I haven't had the chance to listen to them but I've heard good things about most of the Heresy audiobooks.
    Quote Originally Posted by suineg View Post
    I like that in EVE Online there are more losses in one day than Brad can raise for his MMO in a week.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gavinrad View Post
    I'm being a little harsh. The book isn't completely terrible, but it really has almost nothing to do with the conflict on Prospero. It's mostly a bunch of back story to the pre-Heresy Space Wolves. Parts of it are really really stupid though.

    @Wrathcaster

    We'll just have to agree to disagree on Know No Fear, but again, Fear To Tread is how you do an epic battle while telling the tale from multiple PoVs. As for the Garro audiobooks, I haven't had the chance to listen to them but I've heard good things about most of the Heresy audiobooks.
    fucker- he's spot on about Prospero Burns. I wouldn't say it's a bad book per se, but I was expecting the battle for, you know, Prospero. Instead that was in A Thousand Sons. Prospero burns is this weird disjointed tale following some random guy in a bunch of random places over a long time, and ends up leaving you thinking, to sum it up wtf did I just read?

    @ Gavinrad

    Yeah, I liked the Fear to Tread approach and I liked the book overall. But I felt like the conflict on Signus Prime was more centralized, with a giant mass of legionaries vs. a giant mass of cultists/daemons meeting head on in a relatively local scale, right in front of the Cathedral of the Mark. They didn't have to deal with linking up their forces because the rest of the planet was dead and there were no other strategic objectives other than "kill the dudes infront of the tower, then kill the dudes inside the tower". Also, the entirety of their fleet wasn't completely disabled from the outset, which doesn't divide the reader's attention between the ground war and the space war, since the most you get out of it is "the fleet is holding it's own" or "the space war is still going on." There's none of this business with scrapcode or logistics or lack of data, either, which was a bit annoyingly distracting.

    Still, if you're looking for a tale of massive armies clashing, Fear to Tread is definitely the better book for that. The Battle of Calth involves thousands of legionaries and superheavy armor and titans, but they're spread all over the continent or in orbit, so you don't get the luxury of a consolidated battle. I'll concede that much, and if that's what you prefer, fair enough.

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    Prospero Burns is mostly about who the heresy era space wolves were and how they thought. It explains that while Russ though Magnus was probably fucking around with things he really shouldn't be messing with he neither hated him nor even bore him any ill will. He was the ultimate sanction and does what is asked of him despite the fact that he would have given anything to avoid that outcome. It's another novel that tries to explain what lead these unbelievably intelligent and noble post human demi-gods to destroy what may well have been the closest thing to utopia it's possible to attain within the rules of that universe.

    I imagine a lot of people took issue with the fact that it kind of has the same feel as Legion where you are actually following the story of a random human rather than reading about Russ raping the fuck out of a city full of philosopher-warriors. Which was a book that it was entirely reasonable to expect. The difference being Legion wasn't meant to be a book about one of the pivotal stories in 40k lore.

    Personally I loved it and without risking spoilers I can't say much more than I already have. It's a little much to expect an entire heresy novel to be almost entirely about a battle that lasted less than a day and took place in a single city. So that's not what I expected and I was quite pleased with both novels and their convergent stories.

    Edit** I didn't bother to read back to where it was mentioned but I know I'm not alone in thinking The Outcast Dead topped Battle for the Abyss as worst novel so far. Abyss is better off forgotten beyond the ship itself existing of course but for the life of me I can't even fathom what if anything The Outcast Dead was even trying to accomplish beyond The Emperor knowing he might lose and there still being a couple thunder warriors kicking around which has lead nowhere so far. Fucking awful book. Jail break in the Imperial Palace, astartes wearing armor made from scrap metal managing to stay hidden in the single most fortified place in the god damn galaxy with two fucking psykers in their group? For really reals? Fucking stupid as shit.
    Last edited by Taloo; 07-26-2013 at 03:17 AM.

  15. #75
    Registered User Sacel's Avatar
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    Soul Drinker's Omnibus was an abysmal read. It was so poorly written that it took supreme will just to get to page 200. I threw that pos into the Goodwill box.
    Fuck. still rustled from it. So bad. it was.

    Edit: I've heard the books can get bad. But I've read 8 or so so far and nothing has been like this. Almost traumatizing.
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  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taloo View Post
    I didn't bother to read back to where it was mentioned but I know I'm not alone in thinking The Outcast Dead topped Battle for the Abyss as worst novel so far. Abyss is better off forgotten beyond the ship itself existing of course but for the life of me I can't even fathom what if anything The Outcast Dead was even trying to accomplish beyond The Emperor knowing he might lose and there still being a couple thunder warriors kicking around which has lead nowhere so far. Fucking awful book. Jail break in the Imperial Palace, astartes wearing armor made from scrap metal managing to stay hidden in the single most fortified place in the god damn galaxy with two fucking psykers in their group? For really reals? Fucking stupid as shit.
    Dude, you read my mind. After I got done with Outcast Dead I was like... What the fuck? Why the shit was this even written? Who gives two shits about a thunder warrior who dies anyway? And the revelation is that the Emp knows he might lose? He's the single most powerful psyker in the galaxy OF COURSE HE FUCKING HAS A HINT. FFS ten thousand years later people use a goddamned deck of cards to tell the future on the off chance it's him giving you a stock tip or something.

    Nemesis kinda bugged me too, but wasn't as bad as Outcast Dead. Basically just because nothing really significant happens in Nemesis at all. The whole story is pretty much pointless, and is just fap material for people who like assassin kill teams. The ending is particularly lame as well.

  17. #77
    Gavinrad Gavinmad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacel View Post
    Soul Drinker's Omnibus was an abysmal read. It was so poorly written that it took supreme will just to get to page 200. I threw that pos into the Goodwill box.
    Fuck. still rustled from it. So bad. it was.

    Edit: I've heard the books can get bad. But I've read 8 or so so far and nothing has been like this. Almost traumatizing.
    Meh. Chapter War, Hellforged, and Phalanx are really good imo, even if the series started out kinda rough. Ultramarines series is the same, the series starts out pretty rough but after the first three it really picks up. Ben Counter is probably the least consistent author in the Black Library. The first two Grey Knights books basically come across as fan-fic that got published, but Hammer of Daemons is a much more interesting and engaging read. Ben Counter also has the unfortunate distinction of having written Battle for the Abyss, which might be why he hasn't been called upon to write another Heresy novel since.
    Last edited by Gavinmad; 07-27-2013 at 04:16 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by suineg View Post
    I like that in EVE Online there are more losses in one day than Brad can raise for his MMO in a week.

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrathcaster View Post

    I expect to see more from him in the upcoming book Abnett's working on, Unremembered Empire. Cover art tells more of the story than anything else, but if I had to guess it deals with Guilliman setting up the Imperium Secundus centered around Ultramar as a backup plan with (possibly) Sanguinius as Emperor of the new Imperium should the big E, you know, end up getting his ass kicked. Either that or it has to deal with Sanguinius helping to counter Angron/Lorgar's Shadow Crusade.

    Unremembered.jpg
    I find it fascinating that Gulliman would want Sanguinus to be the new Emperor. Of all the Primarchs, Gulliman was pretty much the only one to build a successful interstellar empire, and he did so long before the emperor found him. Gulliman screams Emperor v2.0 to me, not Sanguinus. I'm curious as to his reasons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrathcaster View Post
    Nemesis kinda bugged me too, but wasn't as bad as Outcast Dead. Basically just because nothing really significant happens in Nemesis at all. The whole story is pretty much pointless, and is just fap material for people who like assassin kill teams. The ending is particularly lame as well.
    Spoilers ahead.

    I didn't dislike Nemesis. I think it was probably a story better suited to being told in parts via the anthologies but I don't take issue with it standing alone. From a lore standpoint the clades are something that would have to be addressed in some way. It also moved the story along some but you have to read between the lines a bit. It's pretty well established at this point that the seeds of the HH started with Kor Phaeron, Erebus, Typhon, and a few others manipulating events and sowing dissent. The ending is maybe not needed but does shore up the fact that as time goes on the architects are losing control of their creation. It shows that Horus is getting farther and farther away from allowing Erebus to have input much less orchestrate events.

    I don't know if it's intentional but it can be taken as evidence that Erebus and the powers he represents gives zero shit about anything but the emperor being stopped before whatever plans he is pursuing reach fruition. It's entirely plausible that Spear could have destroyed Terra, perhaps more. In which case baring regions like Ultramar there is no more galaxy to rule. There is no astronomicon, the future of the navigator gene now relies on the half dead, drained individuals that are your only real means of doing anything with the legions of military forces that mostly hate each other scattered across the galaxy. Interstellar communication may no longer be possible as well. There's no more soul binding of astropaths. The final night lords novel implies that without an organised system for the routing of messages it just doesn't really work. In the same novel they cripple a large section of the galaxy by overloading a node with psychic anguish. The need to capture rather than destroy Terra is extremely important for the lore to make any damn sense. Otherwise just smuggle a few virus bombs down there while the custodose are busy trying to find a couple space marines wearing pots and pans.

    But yeah it doesn't sit right with me just yet. "Why can't I assassinate the emperor Horus? Because I'm the only one allowed to kill him faggot. Now lets continue with plan destroy the palace and kill the emperor while I sit in orbit on my ship letting someone else kill him as per all existing lore." I mean it's a pretty shoddy job of tying up loose ends that need some explaining but does do some work to establish what the people without bolters were doing.



    To address Drez, Sanguinius is literally described as the primarch who has their fathers "soul" and the only plausible choice to carry on in his stead should the need arise. His compassion and desire for a better, brighter future for the human race being key qualities. Gulliman is peerless organizer and masterful tactician but he doesn't have the passion to forge the destiny of the race. Building Ultramar was not something he did out of a conscious desire to provide for his people and greate an empire of his own but rather the natural result of what he does best. He would be the Malcadore to Sanguinius's Emperor sans intrigue and shadow play basically.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grez View Post
    I find it fascinating that Gulliman would want Sanguinus to be the new Emperor. Of all the Primarchs, Gulliman was pretty much the only one to build a successful interstellar empire, and he did so long before the emperor found him. Gulliman screams Emperor v2.0 to me, not Sanguinus. I'm curious as to his reasons.
    when asked who should have been the Warmaster instead of him, Horus said this. You find this quote in False Gods

    “Sanguinius. It should have been him. He has the vision and strength to carry us to victory, and the wisdom to rule once victory is won. For all his aloof coolness, he alone has the Emperor's soul in his blood. Each of us carries part of our father within us, whether it is his hunger for battle, his psychic talent or his determination to succeed. Sanguinius holds it all. It should have been his...”

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