Did they really move Brad off VG to work on Next? Something about him knowing how to make a true sandbox?
I don't know how we moved twice and nobody made this thread either time. I don't play this game, but I can't call it home without it.
Did they really move Brad off VG to work on Next? Something about him knowing how to make a true sandbox?
I think we've safely established at this point that Brad isn't the talent. I was kind of hoping his memory would die with foh.
PLEASE GOD NO.
I always thought Vanguard was a good game on paper but poorly managed and executed. So as long as he is on the dev side its fine no?
He was a 'dev' on EQ and that turned out ok. Happy for him to 'dev' on EQ Next. The only thing he seemed to have not coped with was running the company as CEO and he wont be doing that again.
pretty sure brad is working on eq next. the current dev team is busy making this another clone of wow
On another note: I'm messing around with VG for the first time in a while. Rolled up a Bard and was thinking about boxing. Anyone know if they box well? It seems like if you equip an instrument, Bards can't melee but their songs are more potent...
Is that a feasible plan for boxing a Bard? Simply use instruments and songs and focus everything else on the second character?
Later on you can get instruments that double as a weapon too. But even when you just use normal weapons, their songs (sung) can still be pretty potent.
A bard left on auto pilot will not be all that useful though. Yes their songs will be quite a nice buff for your 'main' character, but only similar to just getting buffed by a druid or shaman buffbot or whatever. In other words, having the bard just following you around will be quite wasteful of the bard and wont make you all that much stronger than just soloing. Although if you can manage to do some stuff on the bard, their dps can be pretty good, especially if you assign their attribute points in the right way. (str/dex/int) And with practice, even though 2 boxing seems hard at first, in time you'll be able to go back and forth and use the second character almost as much as your main guy. The main issue I would say about a bard though, is that their DPS is not as good (or as easy to do) as a monk or a sorc or druid or whatever. What really makes a bard worthwhile is special stuff like the ability to mez stuff and charm stuff. But this can be really hard to do when you are 2 boxing, because time spent focusing on charming one mob and then sending it on another mob, is time you are leaving your main character completely unattended, which can be nasty. Especially later on when you do a dungeon and you end up with several mobs beating on you - as soon as you start trying to mez or charm something, the time it takes you to do that is often enough time for your main character to die. In other words, a Bard is really one of those classes that should really be played by itself so you can focus on all their many useful tricks.
And even if you do manage to box it incredible well, or even if you pick two other classes, as I've said before, 2 boxing is not perfect. In the lower levels the mobs are so easy and squishy that having 2 characters is barely even an advantage because one character can kill them just as easily, only now you need to collect all the quest items twice and spend double the amount of time gearing up your guys etc.. You also might still struggle to do places like Khegor's End with just the 2 characters because you miss a lot of important abilities at that level (ie, no Lull!), and its just a hard dungeon anyway. In the mid levels, having a 2 box really comes in to its own and you will be able to do a lot of the group and small group content that you wouldn't have been able to do alone. For example I did the whole of the Dargun's Tomb questline as a 2 box, apart from the very final battle for the weapon. But then going to the higher levels, it becomes almost useless again because the mobs are so much harder, you'll just struggle to make any progress with just the two characters.
I 2 boxed four different combos of characters and had lots of fun, but it always comes grinding to a halt in the 40's, because you end up fighting such beefy mobs that they just take an eternity to kill with only 2 characters. So I am now 6 boxing and it's amazing but it's also very stressful and requires a huge amount of effort, and it also is not for everyone because your PC needs to be able to cope and you ideally need to macro some things to help out too.
So if you really like the idea of a Bard, personally I would suggest playing it alone so you can be really good at it and do all kinds of cool stuff. You should be able to group most of the time too because the population is not bad. They can provide killer buffs for any class in their group, they can dish out really nice dps, and they can do crowd control as well as even a Psi. If you are determined to 2 box just for the fun of it or because you want to do some of the harder content by yourself (you can do hunters league etc. as a 2 box), then I would suggest picking something other than a bard to make life easier on yourself. And if your PC is good enough to 6 box (it's really not as demanding as you might expect), then you should give it a try, it's totally amazing, like a real time Baldur's Gate, and the bard is worth having around in a 6 box.
Last edited by qwerty; 12-11-2012 at 08:27 PM.
Glad to help. It's an amazing class really, you get to construct your own songs out of little individual components. And they are more capable of doing good DPS than they were in EQ. And their ability to charm and mez is really quite powerful. But it requires changing targets and stuff, and that takes time, so in the hands of a good player who is focused, it's amazing. But as a 'bot', they are barely even worth having around.
Although if you do decide you want to 2 box at some point, you could add something so powerful that it leaves you free to use the bard a lot. An example being the Dread Knight which is basically totally overpowered and incapable of dying :P
Last edited by Neno; 03-01-2013 at 01:22 AM.
I'm not 100% so you might want to check in game with a high level bard, but I am pretty sure that INT boosts song damage and basically all of the bards abilities that are not melee. You end up with some curse type spells which do quite a lot of damage over time, and there is the shout and a few others. So cranking INT will help that (99% sure). Your first two stats should always be str and dex though, you can max those and just put the remainder in INT. I currently have the remainder in VIT on my bard, for the regen, but it's no use to me so I plan on switching it to INT as soon as I can be bothered travelling to the respec guy.
As for the trainer thing, usually they will give you the base damage of the spell, and then when you purchase the spell and look at the tooltip, it tells you the damage that will be done with your gear, stats, and bonuses. So usually when you look at a spell and it says 1k damage, you then buy the spell and it ends up like 1600 damage or whatever. But I have seen occasions when it's lower after buying it and I'm not sure why that is.
Thanks to the infos and reccomendation in here I tried VG again and so far it seams very nice.
I still had 500SC on my account so i could buy a BARD unlock potion from Store. Right now the price is reduced from 750 to 499SC That was kinda perfect for me and i really wanted to play that class some time!
I do wonder tho what happend to my old 50 cleric which i played in 2007 or something. I checked on both servers but he is not there. Did they wipe some characters at any time?
I couldn't find him on none of my two Sony accounts, but maybe i have third..
Wow, so I logged in for the first time since 2009 or so, and they have done a lot with the game. No crashes, lots of content, and the F2P thing grandfathered in all my leet APW gear. I might actually play this again. I can't believe I'm saying that.
Does anyone have a link to any decent customized UIs? I have to be honest, I hate the default.
vginterface.com i use coreui3, but there are a few others
You have to level up with diplo to get the buffs, I assume?
I still miss Too Much Brown
Usually I do all the stuff on the west side of Thestra at those rift areas. I like the creepy environments there and there are quite a lot of quests. Usually around mid 40's I do what you said and try to get in Tricksters groups whenever possible. A good group that can charge through a dungeon like that, makes such amazing XP that it's hard to pass up.
Last edited by qwerty; 12-13-2012 at 06:52 PM.
I think Brad's problem is a lot of what happens to many actors and actresses (well anyone with one good idea) and that is he doesn't want to go down in history as a one-hit wonder or a one trick pony. However, some people make good livings and even go down in a lot of books for their single accomplishment and embrace that fact. I hope Brad is smart enough to realize the good and the right that he's done. I think he tried to live up to expectations with VG and everything he saw running around chaotically in his mind. I think keep Brad at arms length is a great move for EQNext. I also think that VG's good parts is just having people after the fact moving a lot of bad out of the way to see the good things Brad and early devs had in place.
The Tehatamani area was a blast with a group flipping temples etc, also spent lots of time in the swamps soloing for swamp armor pieces post-40. Those fish-looking mobs near the isle of madness, on the coast side Dragon's backbone, dropped the Xennu Energy Shards for the lev cloak, jump boots, water breathing mask, etc. I farmed those items on 2 toons heh.
Yeah some of those special items are amazing. There was an invisibility item for monk which I really wanted and of course the underwater breathing mask and some others. I didn't have the patience to do it though, mainly because I'm 6 boxing... but maybe someday when I'm 50+ I'll go back and wupp everything. But I love that there is content like that all over the place, and exploring rewards you because you stumble across this stuff and you wouldn't ever find it otherwise.
The dungeon I mentioned was cool too, and that had some interesting gameplay. For example there were some nasty Beholder mobs that do huge AE damage and totally wiped out my group in one or two quick blasts. The only way I could work out how to win... was to just tank it with my tank, and leave the entire rest of the group way back out of range. So my monk basically just had to do nothing, and then I had to nuke hell out of it with my sorc and druid. But it also seemed to get healed by certain types of magic (I think Arcane?) so I was restricted in what spells I could use too. It was tricky as hell.. especially 6 boxing it because I couldn't even spam shurikens or whatever without neglecting the others.
I'm messing around with this over the holidays and I'm wondering how far I can get as a solo necromancer, will I really be missing out by not boxing? I don't really want to go to the trouble of two boxing but I guess if I won't be able to find groups or something I might try it.
Edit: Fixed the UI Issue.
Last edited by Kithani; 12-16-2012 at 03:42 PM.
Not sure about the necro as far as soloing top end stuff, I only played one to 20 or so. That said if you want to solo pretty much everything play a disciple. I played one for almost two years and outside of the raid stuff and the flying mount quest mobs I could solo pretty much anything. I used to solo the whole xennu dungeon. swamp bosses and pretty much any all caps named I could find. Get the invis and lev clickie from the xennu shard quests and you are pretty much set. Had a full set of faction armor and mount from killing 6 dot named at will. Go Kojan for the racial heal you wont regret it. Being able to go anywhwere with invis/fd and summon in your group is also invaluable. Just my 2 cents.
Yeah disciples are best soloers in the game. As a cleric I could survive anything indefinitely, but my DPS was too low to kill stuff in a timely fashion.
Does anyone know how long it takes to level up to 55, whats the exp curve? So far my bard is 16 and i only played a few hours. I remember it took me like 2 weeks to get to ~20 in vanilla Vanguard.
It looks like they made leveling really easy to please the noobs. I was planning to buy a 3month sub (dont want to play crippled, where i can't use rare or heroic items), but if level is so easy now, i'm not sure
They wipe VG servers or something? I know when I quit I had a 50 goblin shaman and a 30ish Orc DK. I just finished DLing the game and it says I have no char at all. I know Im using the right log in because i went to the SoE website and used the same log in and it showed my history with EQ and EQ2. I kinda wanted to dick around on my boat with my bear shaman.
With accounts being as old as retail EQ; Im sure you just have your logins mixed up. My characters are still there from launch.
again, you dont play vg to race to 55, you play vg to try out all the different dungeons using a bunch of alts. moorgard has done a nice job communicating and stuff but he's also made this game incredibly easy. race to 55 and you'll be bored b/c the end game in vg is pretty shitty
Last edited by calla; 12-19-2012 at 08:56 PM.
So herp derp, I was using the wrong log in. Oh well, time to relearn how to play my shaman. Need to find mah Summon bear button
Any recommendations for where to go at 25+? I'm just started playing my DK again after several years, so I am very rusty (and my abilities seem fucked up).
Damn you guys made me want to check it out again.
Loading my old SOE press account, this thing always comes in handy.
The thread link above is for the VG ofifcal forums, a player asks when will houseing be offered for FTP.
Housing for free-to-play players is in the works.
I've hinted at some other changes coming to open up the game more for FTP folks. Those will start rolling out in January
I have lots of links and useless information including alternatives to the boring CIS/TK.
What would be a class that has good solo ability and could fit easily in any group?
I was enjoying Paladin but it seems that the class doesn't bring a lot to the group when not tanking and most of the groups I see pop up already feature tank and healer.
As for soloing.. Vanguard is shit for soloing, but here's why any class will work. The adventuring content of the game is basically split in half. Half of it is for groups, and half of it is for soloing. The solo content is boring as fuck, kill 20 bats, kill 50 wolves, kill 5000 spiders, whatever. It's also designed to be easy, and any class can do it if you take your time and you can play well. So better or worse classes, it doesn't really make any difference, even the shittiest class can still solo because the solo content is all wussy mobs that can be killed with your eyes closed.
Then the other half of the game is group content, and that stuff is just too hard no matter what class you pick. Yeah there are a few exceptions, a few dungeons have easier mobs than usual, and a few of the classes are insanely overpowered (DK and Disciple), so they can solo in these places. But still, soloing in group content is generally a waste of time too because it takes ages to kill stuff and no matter what class you pick, you still can't do the more interesting content anyway. It's not like EQ unfortunately, because there are no mobs you can solo that have anything of value, and it takes so long, it's never good XP either.
So basically, if you want to mostly solo, play some other game for sure. Get SWTOR or The Secret World, they have really good solo content. Their group content is not as good as Vanguard and their worlds are not as big too, but apparently we can't have everything.
Last edited by qwerty; 12-21-2012 at 02:14 AM.
yeah Vanguard has done a great job with providing content for every type of group / solo style you wish to play.
I almost forgot about the fact how nice the game divides mobs into 5 types.
1 dot = almost sure ohk =P some mob pets and stuff
2 dot = standard mob for solo, this seams to be the most spreaded type
3 dot = harder mob for two or three players
4 dot = full groups
5 dot = Raid mobs?
While its true that you can solo with every class, I remember I could solo 4 dot mobs with my cleric. It took a fucking lifetime to kill the mob, but he could do it. My ranger bud couldn,t, i had to help him.
So it was sometimes useful and challeging to solo group quests as a cleric.
edit: I think some mobs have even 6 dots as far as i remember, but rare and only bosses
Last edited by Martyr; 12-21-2012 at 03:35 PM.
Always loved this game but couldnt justify it against all the other options. Now that im bored as shit with everything else, however, I started up again the other day. Name is Netherbian, 22 Disc. Always looking to group so shoot me a tell if you want to group.
So I just tried to login with the 4 or 5 different accounts that I may have used at some point. Each one I login to doesn't have my characters from way back. Sad face.
I had an account that I hadn't logged in for 5 years and my characters were still on there. If you are definitely sure there should be characters on the account, then you could make a support 'ticket' with SOE and they'll help you out.
Although either way, starting a new character is often nice to do anyway. Because it teaches you how to play again, and the lower levels are kinda fun anyway. For me at least.
So really it's best to just play whatever class you like, and solo whatever you can without making life hard for yourself. If something is too hard, just find a group and you will blast through it fast and it will be far better xp, and far more fun.
The dots system works kind of like this:
1 DOT - very easy, usually dies in a few seconds
2 DOT - standard soloable mob, usually quite easy to kill unless it's higher level than you. Any class should be able to solo these mobs.
3 DOT - Many classes can solo these, some can't. Groups should be able to kill them in a few seconds.
4 DOT - the standard group mob, most dungeons are full of 4 dot mobs everywhere. Some classes can solo these, but they are a longer and harder fight for anyone. Groups should be able to kill them quite easily, if it's alone.
5 DOT - the stronger group mob, most dungeon nameds will be 5 dots. It's not MUCH harder than the 4 dot, but they are still pretty tough. Again, some classes can solo these but it would take a long time and it would be dangerous. Groups should be able to handle them just fine though, if it's alone.
6 DOT - the big bad boss of dungeons, and raid mobs. One or two classes might be able to solo these, in some cases, but it's an extremely hard fight and takes very long to kill. Groups should be able to handle it, but you need to try to get it alone. Some of them have companions/pets that you can't separate, but you need to get rid of any roamers first. If it's a 6 dot in a dungeon, it's basically guaranteed to have pretty nice loot.
Last edited by qwerty; 12-22-2012 at 04:17 AM.
I haven't played in a couple of years but when I did...
Bard was my main character, there wasn't much to it, you just click a premade song and spam 3 hotkeys to fire off your abilities. Me and another bard were almost always the top DPS spots in our raid, except for a few cases where you had to run away from AEs or something. I still liked the bard even though it was pretty simple/boring to play most of the times, the groups DPS would just be so much higher than when I played non-bard alts. Also the bard was a fucking horrible solo class. Yes you could solo but the mobs took so long it wasn't worth it, if you were kiting. If you were just melee DPSing it before you died, it took forever because you have to regen to full every time.
Disciple was by far my most favorite class, and I ended up playing it more than anything. Can solo tons of shit, and survive things most other classes can't while still doing enough DPS to make soloing worth it. Awesome farming class, and if you duo with a tank, the amount of shit you can kill goes up by a lot.
Wizard and Psionist were great kiting solo classes. Psi was my favorite just because they had all those other weird abilities/mez.
Necro was a fun class, and I liked the pet abilities thing, but the soloing felt really slow in the mid levels and I kind of gave up on it.
Ranger was a good solo class at lower levels, but mid level it definitely slowed down...still a pretty fun class all around I thought.
Blood mage was pretty fun just because it was so unique. Decent soloers, but nothing to brag about. Mine ended up parked in APW as a summon bot once I discovered the joy of the disciple.
Dread knight was a decent solo class if I remember right, but I never really got in to tanks that much...always had more fun out doing tanks as a disciple :P
I'd love to get on and dick around once in a while but the station launcher never gets past the first "Loading Graphics" thing.
I just started playing again and I'm deciding which character I want to bring to end game. My highest at the moment is a DK, but he is still low atm (25). Anyone with end game or DK knowledge want to comment on: 1. the soloability of DKs through the levels up to end game; 2. DK group utility and desirability; 3. end game/raid evaluation; and 4. just general info, like how much fun they are to play beyond early levels, etc.
1. dks are one of the best solo classes in game.
2. a tank is a tank. won't really get far in any sort of content w/o a tank in the group/raid
3. dc is a good debuff. tanks are always needed
4. thats all relative. if you have fun playing your dk, keep playing. raiding guilds wont turn you away b/c youre a dk, they'll turn you away b/c you either suck or youre a douche.
while i don't agree with some of the changes the current dev team has made to the game, i am really happy with the interaction they're trying to foster between them and the player base.
Design Update - December 2012
Discussion in 'Developer Roundtable' started by Moorgard, Yesterday at 5:34 PM.
It's been almost three months since I joined the Vanguard team, and I've really enjoyed my time here. As I mentioned when I came on board, I had been an occasional players since the days of beta, but this is the first time I've delved so deeply into the game. There is a lot of depth in Vanguard, and it's easy to see why so many of you have stayed so passionate about it for the nearly six years of its existence.
As we prepare to celebrate the holidays, I'd like to go over some of the initiatives we have planned that we think will improve the game as we go forward. Change doesn't happen overnight, but our team loves Vanguard and is committed to making it more stable, polished, and fun.
It's no secret that one of the big issues that has plagued the game since its launch is performance. While today's PCs allow Vanguard to run pretty well on modern hardware, server performance--especially in raid situations--remains a problem.
Hobart has made many fixes and optimizations that have improved performance in the last few months, but it became clear that more drastic steps were required. As he mentioned in his own thread, Hobart has begun ripping out the old network layers of the game and is incorporating modern tech that is used in other SOE titles. This should bring a lot more stability, and will give us better tools and information to isolate problem areas. It's a huge undertaking, but it's worth the investment. You should see the fruits of these efforts arrive early next year.
I'd be willing to bet that Vanguard had more content at its launch than any other major MMO had at its release. Even today, after a number of smaller content updates but no major expansions, Vanguard still has more places to go and things to do than many other games.
Unfortunately, it's not quantity alone that holds an audience over the long term, but quality of content. And quality is one of the places that Vanguard has always been most lacking. Bugs, poor implementation, and overcomplicated design have hindered wider acceptance of the game.
We can't change the past. What we can do is make our best effort to improve things going forward.
The main point I've tried to emphasize since joining the team is improving the quality of content in Vanguard. We've squashed a ton of longstanding bugs, and made tweaks both major and minor to the game that have improved the overall experience. We're certainly not perfect; we have a team that works really hard, but we make our share of mistakes. An additional factor is that our tools and tech often pose challenges when it comes to reliably and predictably getting content into the game. I know you've heard that a lot, and it may seem like we're making excuses, but please believe me when I say that we're as frustrated as you are when things unexpectedly go wrong. This team is able to achieve more with stone knives and bearskins than many other teams with much more robust and reliable tools. We'll keep doing our best and hopefully we will get better and better as we go forward.
We will continue to fix and polish existing content in an effort to make it as smooth as possible for new players to come into the game.
Even after the recent launch of City of Brass, our veteran players need more new content. The next zone we will roll out for high-end players is Pankor Zhi, which begins a storyline that will carry forward into future content. The team is really enthused about revisiting this under-utilized area and adding a compelling new experience to the game.
Pankor Zhi will feature content for soloers, groups, and raids. Obviously this is an ambitious undertaking, but we feel we have a realistic scope that can be achieved with our team.
ˇSolo - We want to add a new path for post-50 players working toward the level cap. Solo content won't be the focus of this zone, but we have space to add enough of it to help players along who have found their options limited. The intent is to make this content rich and rewarding, centered around the story of what's going on in this zone.
ˇGroup - Group content will make up the bulk of this release, since the interior of Pankor Zhi is well suited for this style of play. Our goal is to offer group encounters that help gear up players who haven't completed Pantheon content, while also providing a new path for those who have. (I'll go into this more in a bit.)
ˇRaid - For those who master the group content, Pankor Zhi will offer multiple raid encounters. We really want to push the level of challenge here, giving guilds fun fights that reward perseverance.
Obviously this is a lot of content. Rather than hold it back until every bit is complete and tested, we'll be rolling it out in phases. The solo and some group content will come first, which will set the stage for what's going on in the storyline. Later we'll roll out more group content and introduce raid targets.
But as much as we love our veteran players, we need content geared toward lower-level players as well. We've been working on a revamp to the Lomshir area, polishing existing content and adding new stuff to do starting at level 10. This progression will take players through Lomshir Plain and Hag's Coastline, freshening up some classic content. We plan to makeover other former starting areas, perhaps targeting other level ranges that could use a burst of new content. Look for the Lomshir revamp to hit Test server in January.
Those of you who have been at the level cap for some time, or who will be reaching it shortly, obviously want new goals to achieve.
Unfortunately, character progression in Vanguard has been haphazardly designed and inconsistently implemented. Players reached stat caps far too quickly, and rather than address the core issues, new systems were piled atop old ones. What this amounts to is that, in the current implementation, we have very little headroom to offer improved item rewards that make sense, and the only option some players have to improve their characters is to ignore core stats and chase off-stats for marginal improvements.
While a complete overhaul of stats and gear would be wonderful, we don't have the bandwidth to do that. So we're targeting some achievable changes that should open up the game going forward.
First off, we will be changing or removing certain stat caps and combat formulas so that we can open up item progression that makes sense. We want you to once again benefit from improving the key stats of your class, and we want to be able to get a tighter rein on how certain parts of combat work--giving us all some much-needed breathing space. I won't rule out reducing the potency of a few overpowered elements of the game, but we'll do our best to keep such impact minimal. We're not out to nerf the game or take away anyone's fun, but some sacrifices may need to be made for the overall health of the game.
Secondly, we will offer new strata of gear for players to acquire. Solo, small group, and group players who have not obtained Pantheon gear and other desirable items will have paths toward equipment that, while not at the potency of Pantheon rewards in all respects, will prepare them for the more challenging content that well-geared players are already suited for. Then those players will, in turn, have new goals to achieve with gear obtained through grouping that will prepare them for new raid content.
The intent is that all players, even the most decked-out of our veterans, will need to acquire new gear to be successful at the top end of Pankor Zhi. We'll roll out details on how we plan to do that as we get further into development, but I can say that it will not be through increasing the level cap.
The Pantheon line will remain desirable, especially as the way to achieve your epic weapon enhancement. We just don't want PotA to be the only path to awesome gear.
Crafting and Diplomacy
Diplomacy and crafting are two spheres of advancement that make Vanguard unique, and I don't want anyone to think we've turned our back on these very important facets of the game. Unfortunately these are very complex systems with a myriad of intertwined elements, and we don't have as much experience on the team making these types of content as we do in creating new adventuring content.
Nevertheless, we remain committed to these styles of gameplay. An important step is improving the introduction to both these spheres. On the Isle of Dawn and in our other starting areas, the first exposure to both crafting and diplomacy is overwhelming and a bit confusing. We want to streamline the introduction to these spheres and hopefully get more players to stick with them.
Long term, we'd like to continue the saga quests for both crafters and diplomats so that there is compelling content for them all the way to max level. This would be an ambitious undertaking, and we don't have the resources for it right now. But hopefully if we can polish the core systems and get more players interested in them, we'll be able to make an investment worthy of these unique aspects of the game.
Crafting content for City of Brass will be in testing soon. Realistically with the staff we have, this method of rolling out crafting and diplomacy into new or revised zones after we work on the adventuring content is the path we'll take for the foreseeable future.
Free to Play
Coinciding with Vanguard's sixth anniversary at the end of January, you'll be seeing some pretty substantial improvements to our free-to-play model. Our marketing folks don't want me to go into specifics just yet so that we can maximize the amount of exposure we get around the time of the anniversary, so you'll just have to take my word for it that these changes are very exciting.
Our goal is simple: Make the full depth and breadth of Vanguard as open as possible to our free players, while rewarding members with compelling incentives that make membership a great value. Instead of looking at the game and saying "What should we take away from free players?" we ask "How can we make the game truly free yet even more fun and awesome for our members?" I think this is a much healthier approach for Vanguard's future.
I realize this treatise is getting a bit wordy (okay, so it passed "wordy" about a thousand words ago), but I'd like to close by talking about the philosophy behind the current team's work on Vanguard.
I specify "the current team" because I can only speak for us. There have been a number of creative teams working on the game throughout its development and after its launch, and each of those groups had differing approaches to solving problems. Most of the time those philosophies weren't documented well, if at all, and I want to do that here so you can understand the decisions we make in Vanguard's development.
When approaching game design, it's useful to boil down your philosophies into a few key elements that are easily digested by new people coming onto the team. A mission statement, for example, is a useful way to distill the core ideas of what the design is trying to achieve.
Another such tool is a group of design razors, concepts that are foundational to the spirit of the project. When you need to make a decision about the game, you use these razors to cut to the heart of the problem and guide yourself down the path you feel most stays true to the essence of the game.
After joining the Vanguard team, I spent a lot of time studying and reading about the game--both the reality of what it is as well as the original goal of what it was intended to be. I distilled all this down into four razors:
ˇ Fun - This one is pretty self-explanatory. First and foremost, the game needs to be fun to play. People tend to invest time and money in games that are fun.
ˇ Quality - I touched on this earlier. We need to hold Vanguard's content to a higher standard of quality. This doesn't mean it's perfect, but it has to meet a certain bar.
ˇ Challenge - One of the things that sets Vanguard apart from other MMOs is the level of challenge required to play it. We shouldn't be afraid of making content that demands more of our players than other games of this type--and we should emphasize challenge which requires cooperation.
ˇ Accessibility - The content we make should not be gated by bugs, poor interface design, and other inscrutable barriers. The path to enjoying fun, quality, and challenging content should be clear of needless roadblocks.
If you consider these razors, you see they don't always align. Fun and quality get along well, but challenge and accessibility soon get into conflict. This is the intent. Game design isn't about having a clear and obvious answer; it's about considering your goals and making the best judgment you can about how to proceed.
Challenge and accessibility often compete. Even the terms themselves--all four terms, really--are subjective and thus open to interpretation. This is what makes game design an art rather than a science.
One particular player's definition of challenge will likely be different from another's, and will often be different from my own. Take, for example, recent changes we've made to certain high-end faction gains and item costs. When we reduced them, some players argued that we were taking away challenge from Vanguard.
My belief is that grinds which serve only as barriers to core content are not a viable substitute for fun or challenging gameplay. They represented a certain investment of time, to be sure, and that investment has been perceived by some players as a rite of passage to separate the dedicated from the less so. If everyone got through that content the same way, I'd be more likely to sympathize; however, the number who sat AFK while someone else kited, or who exploited dupes and other unintended shortcuts, is not insignificant. Another factor in our decision was the age of the content; I think it's simply time to let newer players progress through older content at a faster rate so that we have a larger population of players at the high end who are geared up to experience the game's most challenging content--including that which is to come.
(One other point I want to clarify: I am not against optional grinds for non-essential rewards. Someone willing to grind faction to achieve a rare set of clothing, or to become friendly with a certain NPC population--those are fun optional paths that are interesting to have in the game. I'm mostly targeting grinds that block off the game's core content progression.)
My point is that each design decision requires a different application of the razors. Sometimes challenge wins out; other times accessibility. That may seem inconsistent to some, but it's about considering the options. Your razors only help you reach a conclusion, they don't make the conclusion for you.
I've mentioned before that I was charged with maintaining the "old school RPG feel" of Vanguard. Some of you have asked how I define that. Well, the concept wasn't defined for me, either--something else open to interpretation. I won't bother trying to write out an iron-clad definition, because I think that it--like the design razors--has different weight depending on the circumstances.
To me, that old-school feel is about challenge, first and foremost. Content that pushes you, that doesn't have all the conveniences of newer MMOs. And it's okay if time is part of that equation, so long as that time is spent trying to overcome a challenge that's really, really hard (as opposed to mindlessly killing the same mobs over and over and over and over trying to reach some ghastly quota or find some stingy quest drop).
That old-school feel is about experiencing butt-kicking content that's fun to play, delivered in a polished fashion, and free from needless complexity that gets in the way of enjoyment. That's the kind of game I want to make, and hopefully the type of game you want to play.
And Speaking of Conclusions…
Okay, that's it--I promise! Thanks for reading. (Can you believe I made it all the way through without referencing "The Vision" even once?)
I hope you have a safe and prosperous conclusion to 2012, and may we all enjoy a healthy and happy 2013.
Last edited by AlekseiFL; 12-23-2012 at 02:48 AM.
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=1143 compared to http://vanguard.xanadu-community.com...ewItem&id=1044 .
Does anyone know of anymore instances of EQ items being cloned over into VG besides this and the jboots/jboots quest?
How large is the player base for this game? I just find it kind of odd a game that I can't recall ever hearing about anywhere else is pulling enough subs/players/RMT to keep going when a lot of well known MMOs have been getting the plug pulled.
SOE is much slower to completely pull the plug on a game due to beefing up its whole Station Pass option. They keep a few games on life support with one server.
Last edited by Neno; 03-01-2013 at 01:15 AM.
Really though, it's a sad situation. It was such a promising game and yet it has less players than some of the EQ Emulators I've played. You can still play it because if you can struggle your way through the 50 levels, the final 5 levels are where most of the players are, so you can get in a guild and do stuff. And from 1-50, there are some kool dude areas where all the new kids go, so if you stick to those areas you have a decent chance of getting in a group. If you like to forge your own path though, then be prepared to solo all the way - or multi box to help yourself.
I was playing it the past few months and I still have it installed, but for the past 3 weeks or so I've moved to EQ Mac instead and I gotta say, I am having FAR more fun with that. There are just so many things I prefer about it. And the best thing of all, is that there is shiiiit loads of content. I have been playing seriously hardcore for 3 weeks, like 6 hours a night, sometimes more. And yet I haven't even scratched the surface. I've hunted in about 5 zones, and that leaves about 20 more zones in the old world alone. Then there is all of kunark, all of velious, all of luclin, and all of PoP. If I do what I'm planning and trying to see all of it, I'll be playing it in over a year and still have plenty to do. That was the main thing that bugged me in Vanguard, it has 'some' content at the higher levels, but it just can't compete with something like EQ Mac with its 4 big expansions.
As for not pulling the plug, I'm sure they will once EQ Next comes out. But for now they have just put in a TON of RMT options in to Vanguard for the first time. And I think they are going to be making a lot of money from that. Because no matter how strong you are against the idea of it.... when you have played a game for 6 years like me and still never done and seen a few things (like having your own flying mount etc), then it's too hard to resist just buying stuff. So you spend 10 bucks here and 10 bucks there and it all adds up. So I think SOE will enjoy raking in all that cash from people over the next 12 months or so, until plug pulling time.
Here is the list of changes that were made with today's update:
Festival of Gloriann
ˇ The Festival of Gloriann has drawn to a close. We hope you had fun!
ˇ In Gloriann's absence, Randolph can no longer fly. He will remain a usable ground mount until next year's festival.
ˇ Check out these new items:
o Flying mount: Putrid Swampphibian - Bred in the foulest swamps of Telon!
o Ground mount: Gershire's Okami - An armored, light gray wolf.
o Visage of the Anubis - Take on the appearance of an Anubis.
o Vanity Pet: Anubi - Summon a little Anubis as your sidekick.
o Faction Gain Potion: 2x - Doubles the rate at which you gain faction!
ˇ Flying mounts sold in the Marketplace can now be used at level 40 instead of level 50.
ˇ Buffs gained from bonus XP potions, faction potions, and runspeed potions are no longer stripped by death or mentoring.
ˇ Your experience bar now displays the amount of XP loss you suffer from death as a purple line. You can adventure normally to repay this debt and once again gain forward progress, or you can use the XP Debt Removal potion to instantly repay the debt.
ˇ Items that cost 1 plat should now display properly in the UI.
ˇ Fixed an issue that caused items without charges to sometimes appear in the loot window as if they did.
ˇ The riftway to Shores of Darkness can now be used at level 40.
ˇ The Arena Master in City of Brass now uses certain abilities less frequently, but they have been made more potent.
ˇ All mounts are now summoned instantly instead of having a cast time.
ˇ Crafted slate mauls are now flagged as uncommon.
ˇ Mounts dropped from lockboxes are now flagged as bind on equip.
ˇ Finch's Rod of Magic no longer casts a spell when it is equipped.
ˇ Wind of Ages will now properly provide run speed, spell haste, and melee haste.
ˇ The Haversack of Telon's History no longer affects the entire group.
ˇ The cost of KDQ reins has been reduced to 50 gold.
ˇ Cogwound Rivets, Interpolator Cell and Mechanized Strapping now cost 1 plat.
ˇ The Imperial Warhammer of Might is now possessed by Shendu himself.
ˇ Blood Soaked Blade, Detestable Blade, and Fallen Noble's Shortsword now have appearances.
ˇ Tharridon's Mighty Maul now has a two-handed appearance.
ˇ The KDQ gnomes have left the recipe to craft one of their favorite weapons inside their crates.
ˇ The Energy Surge set bonus now correctly has the chance to proc mana regen.
ˇ Druid - Hierophant's Blessing stance is now spelled correctly.
ˇ Disciple - Pantheon set bonus now correctly applies AoE mitigation.
ˇ Monk - Level 30 version of Eternal Stone Dragon now provides the appropriate amount of health regen.
ˇ Monk - Aum Liat now gives 10% runspeed both in and out of combat.
ˇ Bloodmage - Shadow Vein is now flagged as Shadow Evocation.
ˇ Vanity: Call Mumbles no longer requires energy to cast. Monks may now mumble.
ˇ The illusion potion used in "Infiltrating the Rats" should now function properly.
ˇ Talking to Torkald will now properly advance "Torkald's Tale".
ˇ Stonehorns now drop correctly for the quest "Stonehorn".
ˇ Gnoot Gnooblet is once again offering quests.
ˇ "Tainted Knowledge" can now be turned in.
ˇ The quest "The End of Innocence" now only requires players to collect 10 of each flower in order to summon Zar.
ˇ Lord Tsang's Tomb back door entrance should now function properly, allowing players in and out who have completed the access quest.
UI Files Updated
Vetrans Rewards coming back with next weeks patch all, Per Moor.
Veteran rewards are being brought back with next week's update.
We'll work on some new ones as well, but not sure if those will make the patch yet.
Hey qwerty, how did you box in VG, did you box on one comp? What software do you recommend? I saw you posting earlier you were 6 boxing heh.
I'm trying to setup something. Got VG running in a vmware because 2 launchers wouldn't open. Right now i'm alt-tabbing, but it feels kind of uncomfortable.
6 boxed on one PC. Had to lower the graphics settings to the one below medium, I think a SSD really helps. The launcher is a bit tricky, I had to load 6 launchers and spread them out on my desktop. Then change the drop down on each one to have each account ready, then I clicked and logged all 6 in at the same time.
In game I had a macro on my tank to /invite each of my other characters, and then on each character I have a macro that targets my tank and auto follows him. Also the first ability on everyones hotbar is to both target the tank (to set him as defensive target) and then assist him.
Then the software I use is Setpoint which comes with Logitech mice. I have a low to mid end mouse called a G500 which isn't very expensive, but it's really good. It has 7 extra buttons and you can set up macros and assign them to any of the buttons. I also have a Microsoft keyboard which now has software that does the same thing, but I just used the ones on my mouse. My secret weapon is to have 2 macros just for moving through the clients. The first one is a simple alt tab, and I have this on the thumb button which makes it nice and easy and saves having to press Alt and Tab on your left hand every 2 seconds.
But the second macro is more advanced. It basically holds alt, then presses Tab 5 times, then releases alt (And then spams alt a few times to get rid of stick alt issues). This happens instantly, so one press of the button will instantly switch to the next character. And because it's 5 it will cycle through the clients one by one and then go back to the first one. So basically I engage with my tank and hit taunt or whatever, then press and I'm on the second character and I just press 1,2,3 to engage a few instant abilities, then press and I'm on the third character and I do 1,2,3 and just keep going like that. After just 5 seconds or so, I have engaged all the other characters and then it just loops back to the tank and I taunt again, then repeat the process a second time to go through all the characters again and activate different things.
It takes some practice but you can get very fast with it. So say you are on the tank and you quickly need to heal, you just spam the button to cycle through the characters and it quickly blasts through. And you will get a feel for how many clicks your healer is after the tank. (It doesn't always stay in the same order but you get a feel each time you log in). And the best thing is that the normal single alt tab button goes back to the previous one in the list. So if you quickly spam to find your healer and then go too far, you just press the other button and jump back to the right guy.
One other trick is to press the alt tab, then cycle, then alt tab again, and you can rearrange the order like this. So basically you can have your tank and healer next to each other so you can just tab instantly between them with the normal alt tab macro. Or if you are pulling with your druid or something, make it so he is in the order next to the tank so that if something goes wrong, you can instantly switch to the tank to grab aggro.
And in the higher levels when you have a sequence down that doesn't change much, you can just macro the whole thing. It takes a good 15 minutes or something to make the macro, but once you've done it you can use it forever and it makes life easy. It's best to not have the macro do too much because if something bad happens you will be stuck waiting for the macro to end which could be very bad. So I just have a simple macro that tabs through each character very quickly and engages auto attack on all of them, and one or two instant abilities. So its not much risk because it blasts through and is all done and back on my tank in about 5 seconds.
Hope that makes sense. It sounds complicated but it's quite simple once you get it up and running and then practice with it. I'm currently playing EQ Mac and I use the exact same set of macros, and it works great.
Last edited by qwerty; 01-13-2013 at 02:45 AM.
I checked this out and I have to say, It is ugly as fuck still and the combat feels sluggish even after all of these years. But the class design is still pretty interesting.
It's predictable I know but... this thread could turn it around for Vanguard!
tryed playing this game just never got into it
The game would be so much better if it had the population to support the size of the world.
Thanks qwerty i will check that out. I also got the G500 which is a great mouse for those type of games.
Theres always enough players around to start a group or to fill up open spots in your group.
One thing i like about VG is that there are people that like to group. In recent MMOs everyone can solo anything, run around in a meaningless safety world, till they are lvl 60, or 80 or whatever in 1 week.
Theres a lot of great architecture and artwoirk around the world whch is interesting to explore. Sometimes i find myself just flying around a bit and holding, oh what was that again??
I prefer VG graphics over GW2 for example which are to bloomy, colorful and childish to me. But i guess everyone has different tastes!
Also keep in mind that VG is based off Unreal Engine 2.5 and the game is 6 years now. I might post some screenshots the other day.
Last edited by Martyr; 01-14-2013 at 02:51 PM.
I hadn't played since a couple months after launch. I had high expectations for the game until I got into Beta (still have the letter from September 1, 2006!). Anyway, I decided to give it a try again for giggles. Installed and discovered - to my surprise - that my 43 Ranger was still available. I logged into an area surrounded by aggro mobs and immediately died since all my weapons had disappeared. Swords, bow, arrows ... all vanished. (Rest of my gear seemed OK.) I ran to the nearest town and couldn't find the AH NPC, so I had no way to acquire new weapons. I also noticed I had not run into a single PC while I had run around. Not one warm body.
I just laughed and un-installed. Good old Vanguard.
The game has its fair share of problems but not handing everything on a plate to some fool who rage quit 6 years ago only to log back in now and rage quit again after 2 minutes, is not something this game needs to worry about.
Last edited by qwerty; 01-14-2013 at 06:24 PM.
Last edited by Martyr; 01-14-2013 at 06:52 PM.
Hehe I did the same thing on fires of heaven. Some people just have weird opinions.
It's too plasticy and the texturing is awful. But the speedtree mod and the cloud/sky mod they purchased is pretty good.
Anyone know roughly how big the download is (from scratch)? I'd like to mess around in VG a bit again but have irritating cap issues to consider and I remember the game being pretty big.
It's about 5-6gig. It then uncompresses to about 20 gig.
I think this post quantifies why the majority of players here disagree with every post that you manage to drool out.Originally Posted by qwerty
The majority of players on this board have played MMO's and most have been playing since EQ. Yet, in every single one of your god-forsaken posts, you make the presumptive argument that it is the player's fault if they don't enjoy a game you yourself enjoy.
Making statements like, "Well, the game shouldn't cater to people who rage quit," completely ignores the fact that the game in and of itself created a wall between the player and the game.
You're immediate assumption, over and over again, is that it's the players fault they're not enjoying the game. Who are these games being made for again? Oh yeah, players. If the devs can't manage to involve players in their game within a reasonable period of time (I suppose it differs with every game/situation), then that's their fault and their game will die.
Get over yourself, monkey. Clearly you can type (pages), it's the thinking that eludes you.
How populated of a game are we looking at here? I purchased it at launched and quit shortly thereafter. Would I still be able to find groups?
the first tip i will give you is ignore qwerty. as far as grouping yes you can get group pretty easy for kedgors end at mid late teens. vol tuniel early 30s, some thelaseen late 30s and tricksters in early 40s. also alot of graystone in late 30s early 40s. you level pretty fast so you wont really do alot of samey level dungeons
How do I dumb down the discussion? Read the previous page. It only went bad when you showed up. Again, read the words on the page, stop living in denial. And grumbledumb, please do ignore me. I know more about this game than anyone on this forum and I would hate to think a stupid little dumb bitch like you who can barely even type, would get any benefit from what I have to say.
Patch of Thur 1/17/2013 cross fingers should be Vet rewards going back in and some other stuff.
VG now 100% FTP New Producers Letter.
Producer Letter - Changes to Free to Play and Membership Benefits!
Posted On 01/17/2013
I thought it was about time to update everyone on what's been happening on the development side of VanguardŽ. As the team returned from the holidays, we started working on fixing more of the low hanging fruit. The fruit I refer to are the bug fixes that players have asked about that we can get out quickly as we work on larger tasks in the background. Some of these things include fixes for quests, spells and abilities, and epic weapons, as well as making it take less time to earn rewards from some of the major factions in the game. There has also been some work done on crafting and diplomacy that we aren't ready to release details on yet, but we will be telling you about them in the near future.
Speaking of larger tasks in the background, we have been working on something that has come up multiple times in threads on the forums. That is, how do we make it even easier for people to come back to Vanguard to see all the changes that we've been making? Well, after a lot of discussion and debate, we've decided to do something pretty awesome. We have decided to expand and improve on the free- to-play offering for Vanguard. That means everyone can play any race, any class, to any level for free. You can also own a house, create guilds, and do a bunch of other things. Why did we decide to do this? Because we all believe that once you start playing the game without restrictions, you'll want to keep playing and will find our Membership option to be an even greater value!
Because of the perks we are adding for your membership! Membership should be something you get on top of the game you are playing, not something you have to do to have fun. With that said, there will be increased XP and faction gains, discounts on broker fees, the ability to purchase additional housing plots, and other exciting benefits. You can see all the membership benefits here.
Talk to you all again soon and see you in-game!
Harvey "Rahtiz" Burgess
Game Update Summary - Thursday, January 17, 2013
Here are the improvements that were released with today's update:
Free to Play
ˇWe're pleased to offer substantial improvements to Vanguard for both free players and gold members! Our goal is to open up the game to free players while increasing the value of memberships.
oAll races and classes available at character create without needing to unlock them
oCan create guilds as well as join them
o2 plat coin limit has been removed
oQuest limit has been raised to 50
oAll bag slots are now unlocked
oCan now join Caravans and Brotherhoods
oBroker and mail fee penalties have been removed, reducing costs to previous subscriber levels
oCan purchase a housing plot.
o50% XP boost
oGain faction at double the normal rate
o20% discount on broker fees, mail fees, riftway fees, item repair, and housing upkeep
oCan purchase 2 housing plots
oIn progress: Improved odds at receiving rare loot drops. (Coming in next week's update)
oYour previous member benefits remain: more character slots, more bank slots, no item restrictions, 10% Marketplace discount, and 500 Station Cash per month.
ˇFor more information about the Membership benefits, view the Membership feature matrix and read the FAQ.
ˇPreviously existing veteran rewards are once again available. If your account has rewards available, you will see a message when you log in telling you that there are items waiting to be claimed.
ˇTo receive rewards, open the Marketplace and click the Claim button near the bottom of the window.
ˇNote: This update only affects previously available rewards. New veteran rewards will be implemented in a future update.
ˇCheck out these new items:
oGround mount: Malson's Turtle Dragon - Ride in style on his sturdy shell
oVisage of the Mummy - Just the thing to startle your group mates
oVanity Pet: Rock Troll - He may not say much, but he's ever at your side
oPetamorph: Statue Cat - A fresh, if somewhat stony, look for your class pet
ˇPotion of Quickened Steps can now be consumed instantly
ˇConsumable items have been moved into the Services category
ˇAppearance slot armor and clothing have been combined into the Outfits category
ˇMounts and Pets have been split into their own categories
ˇAll marketplace boats are on sale. There's never been a better time to sail Telon's high seas!
ˇThe Bloodmage epic should now operate according to its description. Pellets now work at 25 meters instead of 5. We advise you to use those gold pellets carefully!
ˇAzebaj Staff and Templar Staff of Delight now have appearances
ˇTime-Imbued Crystal and Fake Crystal are now marked as quest items
ˇRipped Scale Gloves no longer have doubled stats
ˇThe health regeneration effect of Magi Hold Spellwand will now persist for the entire 10 minutes of the ability
ˇPrincess Freestone's Tiara now has Primal, Etherence, Infuse, and Rune enhancement slots
ˇAvarem's Messenger Bag now gives a 10% runspeed bonus that stacks with other effects
ˇThe overall quality of Tharridon's loot has been improved. In addition, there have been some additional changes to specific pieces:
oAncient Breastplate now has Etherence, Primal, and Rune enhancement slots
oTharridon's Ring now has Etherence, Primal, and Rune enhancement slots
oTharridon's Mighty Maul now has a proc, and its damage has been corrected
ˇDruid - Switching to Hierophant's Blessing stance no longer triggers an auto-attack animation
ˇBard and Light Fighter trainers will now offer the song component Mellarien's Chorus of Arms
ˇShadow Vein should now open up chains on critical strikes
UI Files Updated
Zatozia, Today at 7:19 AM
Last edited by AlekseiFL; 01-17-2013 at 05:56 PM.
good changes and seems to reflect the planetside 2 approach. Just in time cause im burned out on planetside!
They did exactly what I suggested about 3 months ago.
Heheh. Well the class thing is a really great thing. So many brilliant classes were not playable unless you pay. And a lot of people just sample games like this and refuse to pay until they get really hooked. And yet... there's smaller chance of them getting really hooked if the class they might most like to play is locked to them. The whole thing was just silly. So were race restrictions. I think it's pretty damn generous now, and it's how it should be for Vanguard. The population is so low, even a bunch of freeloaders playing 1-50 without spending a dime is worthwhile :P
But I am sure that once most people get in the 40's, they will start spending to wear yellow gear and whatnot. I did.
http://www.vanguardthegame.com/free.vm new Matrix for FTP versus subbed.
Subbed gets 50% exp bonus alone without potions hehe.
Vet Rewards are back they be adding more.
Also subbed can Own 2 houses now!
Can't believe this game is still around. I played at release for a couple of months. Diplo was pretty awesome. Wish it was it's own stand alone game.
Looks pretty reasonable to me. Wish i had time to play.
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