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Thread: Black Desert - Valencia June 29th! Server: Edan

  1. #1
    Registered Horse Head Flipmode's Avatar
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    Black Desert - Valencia June 29th! Server: Edan

    This MMO is supposed to launch in 2013 with beta scheduled for the first half of the year. It look pretty good visually, has housing and is supposed to be a sandbox game. Its a korean MMO so its probably a grinder. Its on my radar but I didnt see a thread here so I made one.

    http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/09...ler-impresses/


    Sorry I don't know how to embed youtube vids on this site.

    Links for more articles http://massively.joystiq.com/tag/black-desert

    -------------
    Note from Tuco:
    As always in sandbox games with a heavy PvP focus, PRX is competing in this game in a very serious way. And Rerolled members are welcome to join. We've had some 300 folks from Rerolled join PRX in the last three titles PRX competed in. In GW2 we went 72-4 in WvW, one of the top scores of all time. In ArcheAge we competed on Kyrios for a year before moving on. ESO was fine for two months until the game died.

    If this sounds great and you want to really enjoy Black Desert Online for all its worth, then you'll need to go through our recruitment process. Going through the application process is a little antiquated but it's critical that you get access to our forums to see our plans and it's also useful for us to get to know you. Read our Code of Conduct and if you agree to its terms follow this process to post an application. Note that you are from Rerolled and if your desired name in ArcheAge differs from your forum name, please post it. If I know you I will respond to it vouching for you. If I don't know you I'm unable to vouch for you and your success or failure will determine on the quality of your application, so be specific and verbose in why you are a good fit for PRX.

    Also note that people from PRX, including me, are strictly forbidden from engaging in drama shit-talking on public forums like this one. There's going to be some very salty tears from some very sore losers over the next month, but we will only address them ingame. Generally the only public posts we make are recruitment posts like this one. If you have any questions about PRX, please PM Tuco.

  2. #2
    Registered User Azrayne's Avatar
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    The graphics are pretty awesome for an MMO, but it's korean, so pretty safe to assume that it's a grindy snorefest.
    " I wonder if you are destined to be forgotten. Will your life fade in the shadow of greater beings?"

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    Mike Wazowski Gecko's Avatar
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    Wow, that looks pretty sharp. Plus, it's a sandbox, another positive. Here's hoping it doesn't go complete Korean mode on us.

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    Registered Horse Head Flipmode's Avatar
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    I don't mind a longer leveling curve tbh. I hope I can't make it to max level in a month. I'm so tired of being done in an MMO in less than a month. I looks good, has housing, and a few other systems so I'll give it a shot. Idk when it's supposed to hit the west. If it launches in Korea this year, it won't hit us until December or 2014.

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    lord of all he surveys Pancreas's Avatar
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    If those battles they showed at the end don't degenerate into complete slide shows, I will be thoroughly impressed by that alone... Also, it appears that friendly fire is on, for artillery anyways. When those two cannons go off the second one takes out his own front line.

    I hope they don't plan on culling the view distance to 2 inches past your toes just so they can maintain everyone's flowing hair and supple skin textures during the big fights.

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    Registered User Uriel's Avatar
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    It has horse drifting.

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    Separation is an illusion The Edge's Avatar
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    This actually looks like a Next Gen MMO. I'm intrigued. Will be watching for more news.

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    http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/01...asses-and-wea/


    Pearl Abyss has released seven minutes of stunning new footage from its Black Desert MMORPG. The clip features an eyeful of the game's unique weather and climate systems (which are specific to each region) as well as plenty of fly-through shots featuring varied environments.

    We also get a good look at mounts, combat, and closeups of various classes like the Valkyrie, Wizard, and more. Steparu has posted a brief write-up on the game as well as a couple of additional videos covering housing and the trade map. Combat is described as a hybrid between third-person action titles like TERA and Vindictus and FPS-style systems like those in the Elder Scrolls series

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    Jakon Rahl - FoH'02 Daidraco's Avatar
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    Is there more information than just whats presented in teaser videos somewhere?

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    Registered Horse Head Flipmode's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daidraco View Post
    Is there more information than just whats presented in teaser videos somewhere?
    I'd imagine we'll get more info by or at E3 this year. It's supposed to launch this year so we will see.

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    Registered Horse Head Flipmode's Avatar
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    live it! live it! an accordion's Avatar
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    Looks cool as hell... but if Blade & Soul is any indication of how long it takes to fucking localize shit, we won't see this till 2015.
    an understated ensemble that puts the "b" in subtle

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    Fighter of the Nightman Furious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flipmode View Post
    I'd imagine we'll get more info by or at E3 this year. It's supposed to launch this year so we will see.


    E3
    http://news.mmosite.com/content/2013...desert_1.shtml


    Since EQ next is 3 years away, and probably not the game I was hoping for, This one has piked my interest.

    "smooth action gameplay, and huge castle raid PvP battles"

    Yes please

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uriel View Post
    It has horse drifting.
    Haha. Sold.

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    Fighter of the Nightman Furious's Avatar
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    If this was called eq next, everyone on this site would have gone apeshit!.

    Player built housing
    World PVP
    SANDBOX!!!!!!
    Large scale seiges
    Persistent world, no zones
    HORSE DRIFTING!!!!

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    What is the day to day gameplay like in this game? I was interested in Archeage until i saw it just looks like every other questing game.

  18. #18
    live it! live it! an accordion's Avatar
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    how can this game have such good animations, but TESO have such shit ones?
    an understated ensemble that puts the "b" in subtle

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    Registered User Blackwulf's Avatar
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    Love the graphics in this game. Hate the Dragon Ball Z combat. Also, their engine was chunking like a mother f'er during that castle siege scene.

    But man... those graphics. Lovely!

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    This and Arch Age really waiting for.

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    Quote Originally Posted by an accordion View Post
    how can this game have such good animations, but TESO have such shit ones?
    koreans

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    Castle attacks seemed really fun.

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    Registered User Rogosh's Avatar
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    I was sold as soon as i saw mounted combat and giants. Sign me up.
    "It's better to look ugly and win, than pretty and lose."

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    resU deretsigeR Terial's Avatar
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    but.... but... there are no Voxels?!?

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    Steals Video Games TecKnoe's Avatar
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    game loooks fucking sweet, why couldent eqnext take that graphics approach.
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    I kinda went off archeage, all those quests Zzzzzzzzz. You know your quests are boring when you let people give up half way lol.

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    Sucks at being a grammer Nazi. etchazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by an accordion View Post
    how can this game have such good animations, but TESO have such shit ones?
    because they started making TESO about 12 years ago...

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    Registered User rolx's Avatar
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    HELLO TRINITY SIGN ME UP.

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    Registered User Dahkoht's Avatar
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    I was mildly interested in this until I read the payment model summary (apparently it's fairly complicated but breaks down like this ). And confirmed for the NA release.

    Edit , and now I'm back on it due to my stupidity being pointed out by gog (thanks ) , this is for Black Gold. Snail Games publishing (Age of Wushu etc )

    "The gist of it is that you won't be getting your good loot when you play; instead, your loot will go into a "save file" for optional cash purchase later on. The system holds back rare materials and premium equipment, giving you the chance to purchase the past one, two, four, or six hours of accumulated goods. You can also gamble to try to lower the cost of the purchased save."

    Sounds a bit like paying by the hour almost with a gambling charge mixed in.

    Quite possibly the worst F2P model I've heard of yet.

    You just looted the purple sword of awesomneness.

    That will be 8.99 please.
    Last edited by Dahkoht; 08-16-2013 at 04:48 AM. Reason: wrong game

  30. #30
    MMO Refugee gogojira's Avatar
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    Well that sounds awful.

    Edit: You've mixed the games up, that's for Black Gold.
    Last edited by gogojira; 08-16-2013 at 04:40 AM.

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    Registered User Dahkoht's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogojira View Post
    Well that sounds awful.

    Edit: You've mixed the games up, that's for Black Gold.
    Thanks , got crossed on the articles , leaving the details there just so folks can see the horrifying models that some publishers are going with.

    Apparently it's working well in Asia for some , so SNAIL games is publishing Black Gold with that model here.

    Let's hope it never takes off here.

    Makes SWTOR's F2P model look peachy in comparison.

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    Registered User Rogosh's Avatar
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    Interview from gamescon, didnt see it posted. http://www.black-desert.com/intervie...h-pearl-abyss/

    leveling time isnt final but

    "Even though we haven’t finalized the levelling curve in our Game, I can tell you that the estimate from level 1 to 50 is around 200 real hours. Afterwards the curve becomes steep and reaching the final level will require a similar amount of time as in the old Lineage days. But as I said, we haven’t finalized it yet and I can’t give you a concrete answer of what the level cap might be.."


    After reading this I am drooling all over my keyboard at what this game could mean to the MMO scene.
    Last edited by Rogosh; 09-04-2013 at 02:44 PM.
    "It's better to look ugly and win, than pretty and lose."

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    Registered Hoser Quaid's Avatar
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    Cool. I'll let my wife and kids know the bad news.

  34. #34
    Registered User Dahkoht's Avatar
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    Have they put any wild ballpark figure on NA release or NA fairly open beta ? After FF ARR , this and ArcheAge are really the only things in the next year or so I'm looking forward to. (Who knows what EQN will be , but that too ).

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    Registered User Rogosh's Avatar
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    They are in Closted beta in Korea now so no clue on when we will see a western release, they still need a western publisher I believe.
    "It's better to look ugly and win, than pretty and lose."

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    Sucks at being a grammer Nazi. etchazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogosh View Post
    Interview from gamescon, didnt see it posted. http://www.black-desert.com/intervie...h-pearl-abyss/

    leveling time isnt final but

    "Even though we haven’t finalized the levelling curve in our Game, I can tell you that the estimate from level 1 to 50 is around 200 real hours. Afterwards the curve becomes steep and reaching the final level will require a similar amount of time as in the old Lineage days. But as I said, we haven’t finalized it yet and I can’t give you a concrete answer of what the level cap might be.."


    After reading this I am drooling all over my keyboard at what this game could mean to the MMO scene.
    this sounds awesome. damn japs need to take a page from the koreans.

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    I get the feeling this game is more vapory than it looks from the videos.

    Check out their 'jobs' section. It's a forum. http://www.black-desert.com/forums/1....html?82cabf67

    "We'll maybe pay you when we're big enough" == "we have no money"

    I've yet to play one korean MMO that held my attention for over a couple hours so maybe I'm just jaded.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Octave View Post
    I get the feeling this game is more vapory than it looks from the videos.

    Check out their 'jobs' section. It's a forum. http://www.black-desert.com/forums/1....html?82cabf67

    "We'll maybe pay you when we're big enough" == "we have no money"

    I've yet to play one korean MMO that held my attention for over a couple hours so maybe I'm just jaded.
    http://www.black-desert.com/

    Is a fansite, not the official page. Giant anime avatar and signature of the admin kind of gives that away too. I get being jaded, but damning a game based on the economy of its fan sites is maybe a bit overboard

    Not sure there is an actual website yet. I tried looking and found this

    http://www.blackdeserthq.com/forums/....php?t=1127314

    Looks like the teaser website is officially up! This address was link on the Facebook page of Pearl Abyss by users 최정원 and Kim Hyun-Jin. It looks like a mobile optimized address.

    http://m.black.daum.net/teaser/

    No word yet if this is the promise website that we been hearing about. There's a brand new video (very short) and a dozen or so hd screen shots which I found more impressive. You can see some of the customization that players will be able to do. The video shows off some of the classes in a mini battle montage. There's an extra page called "Theme 2" which doesn't appear to be finished yet.

    The 5th page lets you input your phone number to receive updates. And the last page allows you to leave a comment.

  39. #39
    Janitor Tuco's Avatar
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    Game looks great but a western release is still super far off.

  40. #40
    Registered Hoser Quaid's Avatar
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    Looks like they are going the GW2 route for PVE content, and making everyone 'responsible for their own survival'... So no healers. Too bad it makes combat a cluster fuck. Also, no stealth class.

    Open world PVP with dropped loot of some kind, though not weapons or armor. I imagine its stuff contained in bags/gold only. Territory control/ castle sieges are in.

    There is also mention of instanced dungeons and a localized economy & resource system a la EVE. Also looks like some kind of EVE-like automated timed travel between waypoints.

    Can buy NPC workers and set them to automatically complete tasks for you. Ex. Gathering.

    20 minutes of gameplay: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ah_Kpc...%3D9Ah_KpcA3Ko
    Last edited by Quaid; 09-05-2013 at 01:40 PM.

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    Registered Shill Felmega's Avatar
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    US release in 2015? Thats disappointing to hear. Much to far out to care about right now.

  42. #42
    Registered User Dahkoht's Avatar
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    Looks like will be getting sister in law (she's Korean) to hit up her friends for someone who's not going to use their Korean SSN version to get into beta , always have to go through that for the region locked Korean beta's for some reason.

  43. #43
    Registered User Rogosh's Avatar
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    Closed beta starting OCT 17 in s. korea. http://www.black-desert.com/news/clo...ate-announced/
    "It's better to look ugly and win, than pretty and lose."

  44. #44
    Registered User Rogosh's Avatar
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    Opening clip for closed beta
    "It's better to look ugly and win, than pretty and lose."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Felmega View Post
    US release in 2015? Thats disappointing to hear. Much to far out to care about right now.
    Lol for real? May as well be 3015.

  46. #46
    Registered User Rogosh's Avatar
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    "It's better to look ugly and win, than pretty and lose."

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    Registered User Hatorade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Furious View Post
    E3
    http://news.mmosite.com/content/2013...desert_1.shtml


    Since EQ next is 3 years away, and probably not the game I was hoping for, This one has piked my interest.

    "smooth action gameplay, and huge castle raid PvP battles"

    Yes please
    Sounds good, but these games never play well.

  48. #48
    Registered User Rogosh's Avatar
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    preview of cb1 from this guy: Black Desert Online Beta Preview Part 1 | Steparu.com

    Game has real time weather and day night cycle!

    "Death Penalty - Losing Items

    The game itself is very challenging some of the monsters have a lot more HP than others and hit a lot harder. How hard? I suppose they hit as hard as Vindictus monsters, so you'll have to keep up your game and dodge properly. This isn't a tank and spank game, at least for the ranged characters. If I were to take 3-4 hits from a medium sized goblin, I would be dead! When playing Black Desert Online, you really want to avoid dying. Captain Obvious much? No, I am serious because when you die in this game, you will drop random items in your inventory along with EXP at later levels. If you picked up a very expensive weapon, then randomly die to someones monster or get trained by another player. There is a random chance that you will lose that weapon or other items in your inventory! Sounds scary, I guess you will have to play it super safe sometimes. Tactical Retreat!"

    THis is the only game that I really want to play right now!
    "It's better to look ugly and win, than pretty and lose."

  49. #49
    Registered User Blackwulf's Avatar
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    This sounds good, and I hope it can deliver. That's quite a way's off, though. Wizardry Online sounded really good to me too, before I saw it in action. Of course we've seen a lot more screens/video of this one, so at least we know that visually it's nice.

  50. #50
    Registered User arallu's Avatar
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    Doesnt look too bad, looks like there's pc collision and trains. The screen shake during special attacks looks annoying as the preview guy mentions, and the respawn time in that first video looks pretty fast.

  51. #51
    Registered User Barab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arallu View Post
    Doesnt look too bad, looks like there's pc collision and trains. The screen shake during special attacks looks annoying as the preview guy mentions, and the respawn time in that first video looks pretty fast.
    yes !! this game is starting to replace the ArcheAge hype train.

  52. #52
    Administrator Draegan's Avatar
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    So another 2-3 years of waiting for this game to come out in Korea then 2-3 years for it to be translated into English?

  53. #53
    The thread killer Carl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fish1 View Post
    Lol for real? May as well be 3015.
    If it comes out in 3015 Ill be too busy fighting in the succession wars in my big stompy robot to care about stupid mmos

  54. #54
    Registered User Rogosh's Avatar
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    "It's better to look ugly and win, than pretty and lose."

  55. #55
    Registered User Barab's Avatar
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    Yes

  56. #56
    Detritus Lasch's Avatar
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    best news of the week.

  57. #57
    Here for the Gangbang Hekotat's Avatar
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    This looks interesting, what do you guys think the time frame will be on this?
    Quote Originally Posted by Evernothing View Post
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    She's done riding the dick train and you're the beta provider. Disregard your feelings; break up with her and die alone.
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  58. #58
    Video Game Expert Pyros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hekotat View Post
    This looks interesting, what do you guys think the time frame will be on this?
    Really depends on how they're planning to sell it here. If they've already started working on the english version cause they have plans to distribute it quickly, it could be within a year(remember game is still in CB in korea), but if the english stuff is just for like some south east asian market and they're planning to do like most korean games and sell the rights to some random company in the west to do the port, then don't expect anything until 2016 at the earliest. They haven't announced anything so who knows.

  59. #59
    Retard Rehabilitation Program
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    this game is going to change the industry.

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    Just this guy, you know. tad10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogosh View Post

    THis is the only game that I really want to play right now!
    XP Loss? Bring it on.

    Losing gold on death? Sure, why not. Alternative way to reduce in-game inflation.

    Losing a random weapon? No fucking way.

    That means either: Gear is plentiful so it doesn't matter if you lose a random item (which blows) or Gear is very rare and the developers are sadists (which blows).
    #Kobane

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    Surrogates have been calling Trump a racist and a sexist for months now. I'm not sure how well that's working out.

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    The game might swing more towards UO/EVE and not DIKU, losing stuff is part of the experience.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tad10 View Post
    That means either: Gear is plentiful so it doesn't matter if you lose a random item (which blows) or Gear is very rare and the developers are sadists (which blows).
    Or it means "we've looked at AC1, and we liked how managing item drop on death was a whole subgame".

    (probably not)

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ukerric View Post
    Or it means "we've looked at AC1, and we liked how managing item drop on death was a whole subgame".

    (probably not)
    AC1 added no drop items fairly quickly(hollow weapons, shadow armor, not sure if they added more later on). UO added deeds to make some items no drop too later on(like much later, after trammel and all that shit).

    Need to see how it's implemented, I think it's not a terribly bad idea if it's made decently, it makes death more interesting, rewards the winner with something tangible instead of shitty points you can then spend on gear everyone else has and creates a stronger game experience(grouping for safety, revenge kills, fighting someone better geared and winning to get an upgrade etc). One issue there is that wasn't as present in the games in the past however is zerging, back in UO/AC, you'd rarely see more than 20people total in any one place. Even during the AB wars in AC when most of the server would fight, the fights would be spread out over such a large area and transport wasn't modern systems so you would rarely fight in more than like 5vs5. That makes dropping items alright.

    Nowadays though you play any mmo and you have those 40-50man coordinated zergs roaming around and the only way to fight them is by having another zerg. The lack of friendly fire, increased usage of voice communication, better servers makes it so generally, whoever can line up the most people wins. You can win against superior numbers with strategy, but you need a certain amount of people to even stand a chance and that makes the whole item drop pretty stupid in these situations. I think it's a fine mechanic for a PvP centric game, but the PvP has to be designed to be more small scale than recent games.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pyros View Post
    , but the PvP has to be designed to be more small scale than recent games.
    people always say this shit in every game, and ive played hardcore pvp games a long time.

    I'm gonna assume you don't play pvp games, because the majority of people who say this shit don't. What do you mean just design pvp to be more small scale? You fucking cant if its open world.

    Nobody has ever come up with a system that both lets people participate in pvp freely (an absolute requirement of open world) and caters to small scale pvp. You -CAN NOT- combine the two. Its one or the other, unless you are a game design genius that surpasses all previous designers ever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Furry View Post
    people always say this shit in every game, and ive played hardcore pvp games a long time.

    I'm gonna assume you don't play pvp games, because the majority of people who say this shit don't. What do you mean just design pvp to be more small scale? You fucking cant if its open world.

    Nobody has ever come up with a system that both lets people participate in pvp freely (an absolute requirement of open world) and caters to small scale pvp. You -CAN NOT- combine the two. Its one or the other, unless you are a game design genius that surpasses all previous designers ever.
    Why not? Just create aoe's that punish zergs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by an accordion View Post
    Why not? Just create aoe's that punish zergs.
    Punishing people who are uncoordinated zergs is a very different thing than the idea of designing a game around small scale pvp. I agree games should have options to punish poor zergs, and aoes are often the best method of this. Note that I said uncoordinated though. AoEs rarely do much to fight coordinated and skilled zergs.

    Take eve. AoE weapons essentially lead to small groups being completely incapable of fighting larger entities during the titan AOE era. Too generalized and powerful of an aoe, and you can essentially make small people unable to do anything at all. I think the game found a nice balance with the current version of bombers, with a much more precise and coordinated aoe attack being needed to catch people who are playing sloppy.

    Another game which did aoe fairly well was daoc. Everyone who played that game remembers dunking some 30-40 man group as they breached a keep with themselves and a few friends perfectly timing an aoe. Even when we died, we'd often do enough damage to be satisfying. What we forget is that these tactics were rarely actually effective. Zergs still won, and coordinated zergs still always won. What made the game work was the fact that it gave defenders enough to find the game fun and enjoyable.

    That should be the ultimate goal, and aoes provide satisfaction to defenders, but they do next to nothing in actually leveling the playing field.

  67. #67
    lord of all he surveys Pancreas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Furry View Post
    people always say this shit in every game, and ive played hardcore pvp games a long time.

    I'm gonna assume you don't play pvp games, because the majority of people who say this shit don't. What do you mean just design pvp to be more small scale? You fucking cant if its open world.

    Nobody has ever come up with a system that both lets people participate in pvp freely (an absolute requirement of open world) and caters to small scale pvp. You -CAN NOT- combine the two. Its one or the other, unless you are a game design genius that surpasses all previous designers ever.
    Easy. First you design objectives that can be completed with small groups and ones that can only be handled by larger ones. A small group objective might be something like, sabotaging a stockpile to reduce the enemy faction's war resources. A large group objective would be to defend a keep from invasion.

    Now to prevent the small groups from getting slaughtered by the zergs, you give players options to be able to be all stealthy and shit. Give them the ability to move silently, and quickly. The ability to wear appropriately colored clothing to blend into their surroundings. Regardless of what class they are. Also, give them an environment with all kinds of decent places to hide and navigate around. Make these stealth options have trade offs. You can't wear heavy armors, you can't cast giant flaming balls of death, You can't carry much weight for you inventory... ect. So you sacrifice combat prowess for the ability to go unnoticed.

    Have the small scale missions potentially require lots of support and secondary skills. Lockpicking, scouting, whatever. So a team of players who decides they want to take on these missions are really going to have to plan their gear and skill load outs to make sure they have their bases covered.

    This results in two major groups of players working together for their side. Small groups of highly coordinated commando types that take on special missions behind enemy lines, and general issue heroes that hold those lines by defending strategic points. That's small scale and large scale PvP occurring in the same open world simultaneously. Granted the large scale PvP is sort of the default pvp and the small scale stuff is for people who decide to specialize in it and organize for it. But I think that is the way it should be anyways.

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    if your going to make a game with an open world and open pvp, you dont want to design it around small groups. politics happens and becomes a big part of these games and has an effect on a large amount of the playerbase. its also the big equalizer for guilds that cant compete in these environments on their own. If your 10 people cant win enough fights to make it worthwhile, they need an out or they all leave the game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pancreas View Post
    ...
    You say that like it works. It doesn't and hasn't. You can't tailor things to small groups. You say make these commando targets because they'd only be doable by small groups, WHY? why would only small groups be able to do them. If a 1-3 man command force can take them, why wouldn't a 40 man commando force want to go after them? The problem with ideas like you are saying is that the only way to stop a zerg from doing the exact same thing is to make these points entirely worthless beyond the satisfaction of having them, which defeats the entire purpose. Any other scenario makes it so an objective that takes 3 people to take is better done with 20, and thus 20 people will go do it.

    That's why so many of these mmo pvp games end up being absolutely shit, there's nothing to fight over.

    Games need to push toward the direction that PVP areas have importance, and this importance isn't some shitty buff. The best places to play, to farm, to do things are in the pvp areas, and the pve starting realms are worthless shit that lets you get into hobo gear for the real world. If you want pvp to matter, force people to go into it if they want to be good, make money. Forcing people who don't pvp to move around in the world provides targets for commando style players. These targets aren't objectives and they don't have some map objective value, but pvpers like to know they fuck some joe blow over, and thats exactly what you'd do killing them.

    This is why darkness falls worked so damn wall in daoc, this is what made pvp on rallos zek relevant. This is an idea that eve latched onto. Unfortunately, most mmos have moved away from making pvp matter, and all this crap about SMALL GROUP OBJECTIVES WURRDUR is the wrong direction. You need to make pvp itself matter, then create enough chaos that small groups can create their own objectives, not try to ham fist something that you think should exist in for no real reason, especially since its intrinsically doomed to fail from conception.

  70. #70
    lord of all he surveys Pancreas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Furry View Post
    You say that like it works. It doesn't and hasn't. You can't tailor things to small groups. You say make these commando targets because they'd only be doable by small groups, WHY? why would only small groups be able to do them. If a 1-3 man command force can take them, why wouldn't a 40 man commando force want to go after them? The problem with ideas like you are saying is that the only way to stop a zerg from doing the exact same thing is to make these points entirely worthless beyond the satisfaction of having them, which defeats the entire purpose. Any other scenario makes it so an objective that takes 3 people to take is better done with 20, and thus 20 people will go do it.

    That's why so many of these mmo pvp games end up being absolutely shit, there's nothing to fight over.

    Games need to push toward the direction that PVP areas have importance, and this importance isn't some shitty buff. The best places to play, to farm, to do things are in the pvp areas, and the pve starting realms are worthless shit that lets you get into hobo gear for the real world. If you want pvp to matter, force people to go into it if they want to be good, make money. Forcing people who don't pvp to move around in the world provides targets for commando style players. These targets aren't objectives and they don't have some map objective value, but pvpers like to know they fuck some joe blow over, and thats exactly what you'd do killing them.

    This is why darkness falls worked so damn wall in daoc, this is what made pvp on rallos zek relevant. This is an idea that eve latched onto. Unfortunately, most mmos have moved away from making pvp matter, and all this crap about SMALL GROUP OBJECTIVES WURRDUR is the wrong direction. You need to make pvp itself matter, then create enough chaos that small groups can create their own objectives, not try to ham fist something that you think should exist in for no real reason, especially since its intrinsically doomed to fail from conception.
    I agree that pvp needs to be important, to the point where players are incapable of accomplishing any worthwhile goal without participating in it. In an open world pvp setting that is pretty crucial.

    Now why would you send a small force and not a zerg for these alternative objectives? Because sending a zerg gets you and everyone you are zerging with noticed. Now you have a massive fight occurring over a minimally important node leaving the keeps, castles, or points of interest in the area, that require defending or attacking, vulnerable or under utilized. Any objective based pvp suffers greatly from zerg tactics, provided the populations are relatively even in distribution and participation. But even then, in a scenario that requires divided attention or forces... the zerg loses.

    However there should be no hard restrictions on the maximum number people allowed to participate in any action. Only a minimum number should be contemplated. If players can achieve their goals using the minimum number, or by chance and skill a number less than that, then their forces are operating at peak efficiency; and efficiency is the heart of successful PvP. Why send 10 when 5 will do?

    I think every objective can and should be broken down into parts. Many of these parts being completely optional. The more organized and coordinated the players are, the more quickly and efficiently they are able to perform these mini tasks, the better their overall chances of achieving their goal become. All pvp breaks down into small group actions when people are on their A game anyways, even when all of those groups are in the same vicinity. Being able to have people rapidly break off and spread out to find runners or stealthers or secure objectives and then group up again for a big defense or push is critical to efficient pvp.

    So yes you can throw 100 people at every objective in the game if you like... But unless the sever populations are hideously unbalanced, the other side or sides will be doing the same, and then it all becomes moot as then you simply use the forces required to win the objective. But any smart game will want to figure out what is optimal for server population so they can then design for the averages that should result from that.

    The more complex and involved the process of achieving victory becomes, the more organized and dedicated the people who wish to achieve it must become. Creating content for different sized forces that all leads to the same goal is a natural part of that.

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    The biggest difference between us is that you think the goal of pvp should be winning and holding objectives. I think the goal of pvp should be killing people, and that objectives are a catalyst to put people in the field.

    You constantly vary on your points in the same post. You say you should make objectives important enough that people would have to split up to hold them all, but at the same time say they should be not matter enough to be required. Which is it? Additionally, any process which requires a large force to split up defending or attacking, but does not require the other force to split up only defeats zergs one way. Any process which requires both to split up just results in zergs moving or becoming larger. If you make your game overwhelmingly big (Eve's choice), you just force the zerg to pick the best place and go there. All of these options have been tried, and all of them do nothing to defeat the zerg, you can only hope to make the game so big that the zerg can't be omnipresent.

    The benefit in these games shouldn't come from holding the point, though maybe it could be that to a small one, and making overly complex systems involved in taking these points is completely a waste of time for making good pvp. You should have to use and play in dangerous areas to get the benefit from them, and it should be an eternal struggle to hold and use the land itself. The very concept of 'victory' in a pvp game sounds dumb to me. When you worry about 'creating content for different sized forces', you are just wasting time thinking about something which isnt a problem to begin with. Just throw fucking content out there for people to fight over and let them worry about the fighting and what size forces they can or cant bring. What makes all these pvp games tank in actual execution is the fact that there isn't shit to actually fight over, and its hard to hold interest over crap like TRADESKILLS+7%

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    This debate is an excellent reminder of how fucking hard it is to design an open world pvp system that works, is fun, and is popular. Especially in a fantasy mmo.

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    You really don't understand what I am trying to illustrate. So I will get slightly more specific.

    Take the traditional keep siege. The way I see it, is the Keep should directly confer some benefit to the players that makes them want to hold it. Without this benefit, continued activity in the region becomes difficult to impossible. Holding the keep could allow players to respawn there when they die. Otherwise players respawn in the next nearest region or home city or whatever.

    The keep is outfitted with several defenses the players can capitalize on. Namely walls, gates, murderholes, moats, siege equipment ect. Coupled with the ability to respawn right inside the keep and now you have this layered defense that needs to be picked away at. Maybe the keep has a throne room or some other device that conveys control to whoever manages to access it. Now, a sizeable force could simply throw themselves against the walls of the fortress in hopes of overwhelming the defenders, but this is an inefficient and crude method that will require vastly superior numbers to succeed. Or the attacking group can start whittling down the defenses of the keep until they have been stripped away, thus making victory much easier to achieve. That is what I meant by optional. It should never be a hard requirement to collapse all of the defenses of a keep in order to take it.

    The process by which these various defenses are neutralized differ. Walls can be scaled, or tunneled under, or demolished. Siege equipment can be sabotaged or countered with other siege engines. Gate houses can be infiltrated or gates can be beaten down ect. If supply lines are cut off... then the available number of respawns/reinforcements will dwindle and eventually the defenders will wither. None of these actions are required to take the keep, but they can greatly increases the chances of victory for those who wish to adopt or counter these defenses.

    This is all been done before and is rather straight forward. The benefits of performing these actions and the rate at which these events take place over the same ground are where people burn out. I really hate the concept of instanced BG's. It ensures mindless repetition. So I would rather see these control structures to exist right there in the game world. If people are out there fighting for control of a region, it's going to get hairy for anyone trying to operate in that region.

    So the keep confers the benefit of being able to maintain a presence in a region. This allows the players of that faction to determine who is permitted to operate there. The actual benefit of controlling the region is essentially being able to play there, and engage in all the activities the region offers, relatively unmolested.

    So everything a player can do and everywhere they can go, without having to be covert, is determined by this regional pvp combat. I don't think the other regions should ever be locked out, but I think it should be very difficult for players to be able to operate in them without first controlling them.

    Now increasing the number of activities that can be engaged in that contribute to the regional pvp, and providing activities that cater to groups of varying sizes is not this impossible task. Setting up defenses, and performing covert operations to soften up targets ahead of a main assault force are both things that can be done by small groups or individuals. These are essentially pre combat actions. To try and undertake them in the middle of an conflict would not provide nearly as much benefit. The Zerg may never die, but the faction that lays traps for it or prepares the way for it will do much better overall.

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    Beliefs like yours are what perpetuate the awful pvp games of the future.

    You say you want to make targets for the little man, support pvp for the little man, yet your entire core concept is based around giving an established force a massive advantage, making it much harder for invaders, and designing around the idea that power is a crutch to be undone.

    Ideas like this are why virtually every pvp game becomes worthless, or quickly stacked on one side. Make it so those in power keep power, and people will flood to the side that has the power. These sort of things do absolutely nothing to help the little man or make covert operations in any way better. The scenarios you described about weakening defenses. If 5 people could do it, why not 100 people doing it at once? The zerg always wins when they have objectives to fight over.

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Furry View Post
    Beliefs like yours are what perpetuate the awful pvp games of the future.

    You say you want to make targets for the little man, support pvp for the little man, yet your entire core concept is based around giving an established force a massive advantage, making it much harder for invaders, and designing around the idea that power is a crutch to be undone.

    Ideas like this are why virtually every pvp game becomes worthless, or quickly stacked on one side. Make it so those in power keep power, and people will flood to the side that has the power. These sort of things do absolutely nothing to help the little man or make covert operations in any way better. The scenarios you described about weakening defenses. If 5 people could do it, why not 100 people doing it at once? The zerg always wins when they have objectives to fight over.
    So what you are saying is the perfect pvp game is a giant blank space, sort of like the construct in the Matrix, where 10,000 naked people beat the shit out of each other for no reason other than to say they did. The moment anything is introduced into this space, a tree, a rock, a pair of pants... this produces a clear and unfair advantage to whoever can utilize it best and dilutes the purity of the pvp experience.

    My example gave no advantage to anyone, it presented some theoretical tools for defense AND tools for offense. If only one side decides to utilize the tools appropriate to their objective, then yes they will have a massive advantage, as they should. As I said earlier, PVP is about efficiency. If 5 people could do it, but you send 100, that's inefficient and the war effort for that faction is going to suffer greatly elsewhere, where those player resources could be better applied. This is assuming near even populations on all sides of a conflict.

    Rolling around in a giant mob capping points is a basic tactic that is easily undermined. It's way too easy to out maneuver, back cap and marginalize in just about any objective based setting.

    When holding territory or completing objectives becomes less efficient than an alternative method of resource acquisition, then players will shift tactics to maximize their time to reward ratio. If it becomes more efficient to continually cap points and recap them, rather than holding them, then players will run around in a zerg. If getting player kills is more efficient than holding territory, then players will constantly race each other to find the next enemy first. Reward structures, more than any other design element, will make or break the desire to zerg.

    In my example I would go a step further than simply providing a static backdrop for players to squabble over. I would want to give the players some freedom in the placement of defenses, and design of structures. It would have to be limited, or there would have to be design considerations to prevent unassailable objectives and unsolvable challenges. But giving the players the ability to enhance their physical setting is no different than giving them ability to select appropriate skills or gear, provided the opposing force has access to appropriate counters.

    And a last bit about designing for small groups and large groups in the same area; It is possible to simply design regions that are too confined or specialized in method of access to feasibly send 100 people. You wind up with a three stooges syndrome where everyone is trying to jam through the door at once and are constantly getting into each other's way. There are plenty of real world examples where having too many people in one spot reduces effectiveness. Adopting a few of these could naturally limit the number of players required for a specific objective.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pancreas View Post
    So what you are saying is the perfect pvp game is a giant blank space, sort of like the construct in the Matrix, where 10,000 naked people beat the shit out of each other for no reason other than to say they did. The moment anything is introduced into this space, a tree, a rock, a pair of pants... this produces a clear and unfair advantage to whoever can utilize it best and dilutes the purity of the pvp experience.
    That sounds like pgood game if you put a reason to fight in.

    But you missed one point i make. Not only am I okay with there being an advantage in pvp, but I think it should be required. I just prefer that the area has to be used to get the advantage, not that the advantage comes from controlling the area. The two ideas are very different, but that's the fundamental difference between us. We both agree that pvp should offer an advantage, that advantage is the reason people fight. If its not compelling enough, people won't fight or give a shit about a game. I can even tolerate things that make mobility easier for a defender, but you have to realize...

    Anything that increases defensive mobility and access makes zergs -FAR- more powerful than they would be normally. Keep systems, especially if they allow respawn or ways to get to them quickly are -extremely- zerg friendly. Mechanics such as people stumbling over each other if there are too many of them get abused, and have been suggested in many games. Want to make invading a place impossible? Jam a bunch of people in it and suddenly everyone stumbles over each other and can't get in, automatic zerg win. Artificially make it so it identifies raids and only does it to raids, people just go loan wolf and still function as a zerg. Have the game split into two 3 or whatever factions, so you can identify groups that way? Then you just have a constant yo-yo of power that makes no sense. Big groups that cant defend their land will think your game is bullshit and leave, because it will be. I can't think of a game that's had the balls to do it this way, because it is the equivalent of game development seppuku.

    There is a reason that no game has ever successfully addressed the problem of zerg in pvp. These ideas pop up in -every- pvp game. They fail or get shot down in every pvp game as well for the exact same reasons. They don't work. There is no balance in them. You either squash cooperative play completely, or you just make the situation worse.

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    dont punish groups for wanting a large playerbase. Give players control. They want to zerg up a bunch of points? Let them, that makes a lot of enemies and traditionally the enemy of my enemy is my friend thinking comes into play and dissolves the zerg slowly. The problem open world pvp games have is keeping the playerbase of that zerg once theyve been defeated.

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    If you remove mobility from potential defenders (which I agree is a good idea) in a keep setting, you end up with needing people to defend something that's not actually under attack, or at least watch over it Patrol the vicinity and what have you. How do you add entertainment to those tasks so they're actually done by players, instead of two zergs swapping empty keeps because nobody can be bothered to stand on a castle parapet watching tv. Hey maybe thats a niche for the old eq crowd.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Creed View Post
    If you remove mobility from potential defenders (which I agree is a good idea) in a keep setting, you end up with needing people to defend something that's not actually under attack, or at least watch over it Patrol the vicinity and what have you. How do you add entertainment to those tasks so they're actually done by players, instead of two zergs swapping empty keeps because nobody can be bothered to stand on a castle parapet watching tv. Hey maybe thats a niche for the old eq crowd.
    by moving away from the KEEEEPS! mentality. Its old and boring, at least in its current form(s)

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    You can replace keep with anything else of value though. Call it a mine if you want. It's something to fight over. Unless you have nothing to fight over at all, see matrix comment above.

    That said to add a solution, if hamfisted, I would increases attack potency of at least some AEs against groups, like giving everyone buffs that detonate again 5-10 seconds later. A small team can deal with it, a zerg will just blow itself up. Not exactly subtle but works. So does AE mez with unlimited targets, but we're never seeing CC on that scale again. People would rather die then be CCed.

    Simply adding friendly fire and not having tab targeting would be hilarious too, and naturally limit the amount of firepower both sides can bring to bear at least in melee. But then, friendly fire... yea.

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Creed View Post
    ...
    If you are fighting over a mine, you don't need to be there unless you are actually mining it. Control belongs whoever is using it in the scenario I present, which is entirely ideal. The fact that some 'meter' should describe who doesnt or doesn't control some rock is just silly, and that's exactly how silly I find keep design to be.

    As for aoes and friendly fire: Yes. I am all for this, but I think it only works in ffa style setups. It's too prone to trolling in rvr, but in ffa you can hold anyone accountable for their actions (or mistakes ).

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    Well I meant as a guild/corp/whatever, and you want to defend when not actually mining it so your opponent doesnt get it. You stay alpha lion by biting others to death before they are strong enough to challenge you. If you just sleep the day away and let the females hunt for you, some upstart lion will kill you because you didnt curb-stomp him 3 months ago. That pretty basic but you get my drift. Sounds to me like you are looking at it from an individual level where yea, I dont give a shit who else can mine it because obviously individually I cannot hope to prevent others from getting it while I sleep.

    Friendly fire in a RVR setup allows you to hold people on your team accountable for their griefing, trolling or their mistakes. So regarding that I dont see too much difference to FFA. Social restrictions might come into play if the troll/retard is in your own guild, but that applies to RVR and FFA just the same and arent depending on the game.

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    Found this article on the reddit.

    Most Anticipated Foreign MMORPG of 2014 | GameHaunt
    "It's better to look ugly and win, than pretty and lose."

  84. #84
    Registered User Rogosh's Avatar
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    A new video from G star event, mounts with a race, arena pvp with lions!!

    Last edited by Rogosh; 01-29-2014 at 02:08 PM. Reason: vid
    "It's better to look ugly and win, than pretty and lose."

  85. #85
    Here for the Gangbang Hekotat's Avatar
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    This game looks so good.
    Quote Originally Posted by Evernothing View Post
    Dwayne Hekotat Alozondo Mountain Dew Comacho
    Quote Originally Posted by Dabamf View Post
    She's done riding the dick train and you're the beta provider. Disregard your feelings; break up with her and die alone.
    Quote Originally Posted by kegkilla View Post
    let it be known that IRB is in favor of rolling cripples out onto the battlefield.

  86. #86
    Registered User mrmoneda's Avatar
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    Last edited by mrmoneda; 03-27-2014 at 03:30 PM.
    Hi, I'm moneda.

  87. #87
    Retard Rehabilitation Program
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    All the Pantheon lovers should join in on Black Desert. What the fuck are they doing over there.

    Black Desert Won't Have Instant Dungeons
    They won't add any instant dungeons in the second CBT, but will adjust the refresh time of monsters and add more refresh sites. All dungeons are open world dungeons and they are going to introduce some of this kind of open world dungeons in the upcoming CBT.
    They don't have any plan to introduce instant dungeons like in other MMORPGs to Black Desert as the charm of MMORPG they think is the communication between players and seeing what others are doing while instant dungeons seem to isolate players from the outside open world. Kim said that they will think about introducing some similar features. Several players working together without external interaction in a instant dungeon to take down a powerful boss with different strategies and receive rewards is the good part of dungeon gameplay, and they will develop kind of collaboration gameplay instead with which 2-4 players can work together to take down a powerful boss in the field.
    New Combat Effects & Guild Quests
    In the second closed beta, a special combat effect will be added. If your character's leg is hit, it will make you move slower or even can't move. Guild quests are available but they are very difficult to complete. It is suggested that you do them with your guild mates to increase your guild contribution.
    Mother of God.

  88. #88
    Steals Video Games TecKnoe's Avatar
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    beta plx
    Thread: Vicodin, Cigarettes, and My Fake Tits - from the diary of the Megan Fox of Ohio
    That's awful and you should feel bad.
    02-19-2013 02:33 PM
    Tuco

    Thread: The ethics of stealing video games
    Your justification in life is merely self serving. Imagine if society was 100% people like you, fuck living in that place.
    05-15-2015 05:31 AM
    Anonymous fag
    the idiot who plays blessed shield with no jenkebabobob or foote

  89. #89
    Registered User Rogosh's Avatar
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    Decent interview, lol at them allowing horses to be killed by other players and players getting bent out of shape not realizing it was a bug.
    "It's better to look ugly and win, than pretty and lose."

  90. #90
    Retard Rehabilitation Program
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogosh View Post
    Decent interview, lol at them allowing horses to be killed by other players and players getting bent out of shape not realizing it was a bug.
    it's that good.

  91. #91
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  92. #92
    Registered User Rogosh's Avatar
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    Very impressive customization, hopefully gameplay will be just as impressive.
    "It's better to look ugly and win, than pretty and lose."

  93. #93
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    Holy fuck. That is a lot of sliders...

    Does this game have a NA publisher yet?

  94. #94
    Registered User Rogosh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parallel45 View Post
    Holy fuck. That is a lot of sliders...

    Does this game have a NA publisher yet?
    I am not sure, but they have already started working on an english version.
    "It's better to look ugly and win, than pretty and lose."

  95. #95
    Administrator Draegan's Avatar
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    Jesus fucking christ that chracter customization. Is that for real?

  96. #96
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    I'd rather play Bless, but that character customization is insane.

  97. #97
    Registered User Ukerric's Avatar
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    Yup. Too bad all that eye detail affect about 3 pixels on the characters you cross on the capital streets, and you probably need 2mn to fully load all 40 characters during a keep pvp battle. But hey, shiny!

  98. #98
    Internet Addict misery's Avatar
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    So the English version will be released 2 years after the Korean version? That seems like the norm lately.

  99. #99
    Registered User Ronne's Avatar
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    I have such a hardon for this game. I'm actually completely amazed that the setting looks...good! It's not full of the standard weeby asian bullshit you expect these days.

    1080p gameplay/scenery/combat stuffs. Fapfapfapfapfap.


  100. #100
    Soldaris X X E X X's Avatar
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    That is prly the best gameplay trailer ive ever seen for an mmo. Tho id like to see a full on 1080p version without the crappy pixelation from compression or whatnot.
    Last edited by X X E X X; 04-08-2014 at 02:19 PM.
    Forsakyn 100 Rogue
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